Digital Foundry Makes A Case For 30FPS

[SteveGrabowski]

Why is this controversial? If you're running a dual core a 30 FPS cap can make some games playable that are stuttering nightmares without. Not everyone wants to spend on an i5 and up to be pushing 50-60 FPS on every non-Ubisoft title. And lousy PC ports aren't anything new. They sucked 15 years ago too when games were optimized for the PS2. And occasionally with good hardware you're still going to run across something you want to play that's not going to be able to consistently hit 50+ FPS. You may not like AC Unity (and I don't either), but there's a huge market for that game even with its substandard performance. It won't be the last.

[martinrox1568]

Becaise we don't like it when consoles retard gaming as a whole.

Assassin's greed： Slideshow - most cinematic goty 2016 by Ubisoft.

Smooth 10fps is too oldskool, next gen gameplay allows you to control when to see the next frame. It introduces new dimension to gameplay, where even fps and frame time variance are decided by skill.

oh im sorry. Didn't notice that the pc version was also limited by 30fps. Oh wait, it isnt. So having the consoles run at 60fps means worse quality which would port over to pc

[Linusinium]

It's a bit of a sensational article title but I can see why he went with it since the actual article is pretty bland, boils down to "enable v-sync to lock at a lower fps count if you can't reach a steadily higher fps count".

[Mooshi]

low frame rates have always bothered people 

 

^

 

This isn't a modern console vs PC issue. Way back in the day before kids were using Google for everything, it was very noticeable for gamers to experience frame rate issues. Sonic The Hedgehog 2 had really bad slow down in places that my friends and I used to joke was slow motion mode and that was 1992.

[SteveGrabowski]

^

 

This isn't a modern console vs PC issue. Way back in the day before kids were using Google for everything, it was very noticeable for gamers to experience frame rate issues. Sonic The Hedgehog 2 had really bad slow down in places that my friends and I used to joke was slow motion mode and that was 1992.

 

But it had Blast Processing. Nintendon't

[KungPaoChino]

 

 

Here is a cool Wired article written about Google's new Ara Phone, a modular phone, and the author goes on to describe a modular console.

 

 And a modular PC console is called a PC.

[Yoinkerman]

They make it sound like tearing is a huge issue.  I think I've had one, perhaps two games experience any level of tearing with vsync off, and only one where I actually turned vsync on.  This is in the last 5 years?

[Derangel]

They make it sound like tearing is a huge issue.  I think I've had one, perhaps two games experience any level of tearing with vsync off, and only one where I actually turned vsync on.  This is in the last 5 years?

 

Depends on the game on the engine sometimes. AC4, for example, is very bad with vsync off, especially outside of the animus.

[ComradeHX]

oh im sorry. Didn't notice that the pc version was also limited by 30fps. Oh wait, it isnt. So having the consoles run at 60fps means worse quality which would port over to pc

Oh I'm sorry, were you trying to make sense?

In case you have not noticed, many PC ports ARE locked at 30fps or malfunctions at above 30fps.

[steffen_anywhere]

I just don't see consoles disappearing.. 

 

The beauty of the console is the plug and play appeal.  Computers require a lot more technical knowledge to get set up properly, and often times, come with more hiccups.  A console is so simple, and that's why it appeals to the masses.

 

Razer has done the best job of this so far, and thats future with modular PC/Console components.  Each component is a breeze to install and upgrade, giving the end user upgradability, simplicity, and performance based on what they can afford and as new technology becomes available.

 

 

 

The above is for a computer, but I see it more as a console, at least the concept of modular components with extremely easy assembly.

 

The aesthetic needs a ton of work because the thing is hideous, but this is what I imagine consoles going towards in the future.

 

Here is a cool Wired article written about Google's new Ara Phone, a modular phone, and the author goes on to describe a modular console.

 

I just don't see consoles disappearing.. 

 

The beauty of the console is the plug and play appeal.  Computers require a lot more technical knowledge to get set up properly, and often times, come with more hiccups.  A console is so simple, and that's why it appeals to the masses.

 

Razer has done the best job of this so far, and thats future with modular PC/Console components.  Each component is a breeze to install and upgrade, giving the end user upgradability, simplicity, and performance based on what they can afford and as new technology becomes available.

 

 

 

The above is for a computer, but I see it more as a console, at least the concept of modular components with extremely easy assembly.

 

The aesthetic needs a ton of work because the thing is hideous, but this is what I imagine consoles going towards in the future.

 

Here is a cool Wired article written about Google's new Ara Phone, a modular phone, and the author goes on to describe a modular console.

 

This is great and all, but it will be available at Razer Blade levels of pricing... I hope you understand that this is no solution for people that play on $400 consoles now...

[Misanthrope]

If the article is irrelevant to the discussion, why are we having it in a thread dedicated to the article?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with your points, but the article is in no way advocating that 30 fps locks are the ideal case or should be imposed on all gamers.

 

The article is irrelevant to the real 30 FPS dilemma which is even a subject of conversation (and this shitty article) because of the controversies I mentioned: crippling PC games to make consoles look better. As to why are we still on this well, trolls. Both on this thread to various degrees as well as bait click articles that state the obvious and things that are again completely fucking irrelevant: Nobody objects to having the option to limit to 30 FPS as long as it is just that, an option not a maximum framerate which is the case unnecessarily so in some modern PC games.

[deathjester]

Da hell I didn't know Eurogamer read Linus Tech tips. Here is a guide I made to lock it at 30 (and look right) on AMD/Nvidia. Love how Eurogamer is so incompetent they fail to mention Radeon Pro.

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/253755-guide-to-playing-crappy-next-gen-ports-without-a-oc-haswellkiller-gpu/

 

Also that Razer thing is a piece of crap that will be far too much money and never take off. Thermaltake Core V1, I5, mini itx GTX 970. Just do it. That case was easier to work with than many towers I have built in. Whoever designed that thing is a genius. 

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/260603-gigabyte-mini-itx-gtx-970-impressions/

 

The article is irrelevant to the real 30 FPS dilemma which is even a subject of conversation (and this shitty article) because of the controversies I mentioned: crippling PC games to make consoles look better. As to why are we still on this well, trolls. Both on this thread to various degrees as well as bait click articles that state the obvious and things that are again completely fucking irrelevant: Nobody objects to having the option to limit to 30 FPS as long as it is just that, an option not a maximum framerate which is the case unnecessarily so in some modern PC games.

 

100 percent correct. The only reason I made the guide is piss poor optimization from Ubisoft or to show people that even their old PC is better than these POS "next gen" consoles, even with ports are outright sabotaged. It is impossible to make a port as bad as Ubisoft has done. First off the next gen consoles are x86 pc's. This is not like last gen that was power pc based. These consoles use 6 of 8 cores in the SDK on 1.6 and 1.7ghz mobile chips and the PS4 has the wrong freakin ram for CPU. Ubisoft had to literally TRY to make their pc ports as bad as they have and it is all to get people on a damn console. 

 

I would bet my house that money is being exchanged here, to get ports this bad and the console maker with the money to throw around is Microsoft (Sony is broke).

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2j7r9j/delivering_ubisoft_came_to_my_school_for_a/

 

@ MS? Seriously F off. It isn't enough that we have to pay 100 bucks for Windows to game on PC and you force us to use third party solutions like classic shell to fix your crap? It isn't enough that you delay or keep multiplats off PC like Tomb Raider, from your own freakin customers? 

 

MS is a plague. It isn't just Ubisoft. Follow who has the money and the crap they have pulled in the past. Look at who has the weakest console and benefits from this the most. Halo was originally a PC game... 

 

BTW enjoy DX 12, exclusive to Win 10...

[Sky Daddy]

why is it always 30 vs 60, if you can't get 60 shoot for 45fps

[deathjester]

why is it always 30 vs 60, if you can't get 60 shoot for 45fps

 

These consoles can't even handle a locked 30 when pushing graphics in anything but racing games...

 

Also a sync to the display matters. Framepacing matters. Depends on if the game can deliver an even pace with its engine unlocked.

 

Shadows of Mordor is smooth unlocked at 1440p.  Far Cry 4 is a freakin mess unlocked without ini (xml)changes that just lower textures and give you pop in. In a game that badly optimized you have to choose between a visually stunning locked 30 or a crappy locked 60 that looks horrible.

 

Unless you like stuttering like crazy while driving and claim to not notice it (seek medical attention).  

 

The game stuttering in the first place is the big joke though. FPS single player games are not very cpu bound. The game was simply sabotaged and coded mostly for one core. The sabotage worked cus you see people saying "derp I'm gon run out and buy a console now".

[Sharkyx1]

why is it always 30 vs 60, if you can't get 60 shoot for 45fps

because 45 is a bad experience, you need an FPS count that is divisible by your refresh rate, 

60hz Monitor: 60/30/20/15/10/7.5/5/...

120hz:          120/60/40/30/

144hz:          144/72/48/36/

 

40FPS with Vsync is a stuttery mess, look at the frametime chart.

[Misanthrope]

BTW enjoy DX 12, exclusive to Win 10...

 

Quoted for emphasis: One of the reasons I decided (against advise) to go for a 290x instead of waiting for a 970 was also because I much rather support Mantle and AMD at least when it comes to GPUs. Nothing wrong with the awesome Nvidia cards mind you, but if someone is taking a bold step away from direct x and MS I think it's healthy to support it while still getting an awesome card that yes produces more heat and uses more power but nothing I can't handle.

[Lord Baal]

Depends on the game on the engine sometimes. AC4, for example, is very bad with vsync off, especially outside of the animus.

I didn't have any issues with it but I also don't drop bellow 60fps ever and spent very very little time outside of the animus.

[SteveGrabowski]

I would bet my house that money is being exchanged here, to get ports this bad and the console maker with the money to throw around is Microsoft (Sony is broke).

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2j7r9j/delivering_ubisoft_came_to_my_school_for_a/

 

@ MS? Seriously F off. It isn't enough that we have to pay 100 bucks for Windows to game on PC and you force us to use third party solutions like classic shell to fix your crap? It isn't enough that you delay or keep multiplats off PC like Tomb Raider, from your own freakin customers? 

 

MS is a plague. It isn't just Ubisoft. Follow who has the money and the crap they have pulled in the past. Look at who has the weakest console and benefits from this the most. Halo was originally a PC game... 

 

BTW enjoy DX 12, exclusive to Win 10...

 

Man I want Steam OS to take off so badly so we can eliminate the Microsoft parasite from PC gaming in the next 5 years. That $100 for Windows is the difference between an i5 and an i7, between an R9 270x and an R9 290. I hate using the Windows operating system and would be so happy to play new games on Linux.

[totjup5]

Higher framerate is always better. Anyone who claims otherwise just has a lack of understanding on the subject.

[SteveGrabowski]

Higher framerate is always better. Anyone who claims otherwise just has a lack of understanding on the subject.

 

I disagree; that's the kind of thinking that had people claiming an overclocked G3258 was as good as an i7 in gaming because it had high average fps numbers in most games, completely ignoring the annoying to downright horrible frame time variance.

[deathjester]

Man I want Steam OS to take off so badly so we can eliminate the Microsoft parasite from PC gaming in the next 5 years. That $100 for Windows is the difference between an i5 and an i7, between an R9 270x and an R9 290. I hate using the Windows operating system and would be so happy to play new games on Linux.

 

Yup just built a system for my sister and her husband. It is pretty awesome explaining to them they will have to give MS 100 dollars now (I spent that though, and every time I have to hand these idiots money I am mad), and another 100 dollars next year just for a damned API patch and that is IF we don't get put on a subscription plan which will cost us more money in the long run. What do they get for that 200 bucks? A good browser? Nope. They replaced that POS. A good media player? Nope replaced. Movie maker? Negative. They get a freakin API/kernel that third party makes relevant, that isn't even that great. Oh and forget about average people installing the OS.  They don't even know the local account is there and end up signing up for intrusive BS that will probably be even worse in Windows 10. Want something to boot with Windows 8 that booted with 7? Have fun with that. UAC can say no. Want to truly disable the UAC (cus the average user plays with regedit or could even find the damn thing)? Welp now you can't use Windows Apps (not necessarily a bad thing imo). Oh there is a way around it (Task scheduler), but like everything in the stupid OS you have to take 10 additional steps, because they don't want smart computer users. They want super dumb ones who click giant blocks in a closed playground and are reliant on MS for the rest of their lives.

 

I think freakin linux is easier to use than Win 8 is now, when you actually want to do more than play a game or use a browser.

 

Oh and I forgot. I had to buy a third party freakin Xbox wireless controller dongle, because MS apparently didn't like that we could use wireless controllers on a PC. Other controllers are bluetooth or have some standard, but MS? Proprietary (for no reason, and because F PC gamers) signal. I guarantee that MS is getting money from that third party maker on Amazon as well. They probably just didn't want SFF PC's kicking the crap out of their own console with a wireless controller.

 

Pretty awesome that a Wii controller works with the Bluetooth motherboard and a MS controller does not. PS controller? Hell yeah, that works to. MS wireless controller on a MS OS? Forget about that. Such cool things MS does for PC Gaming. Oh yeah and we got the Xbox One (wired of course) drivers AFTER someone had already got it working and people acted as if these jag offs were doing us a favor. 

 

Quoted for emphasis: One of the reasons I decided (against advise) to go for a 290x instead of waiting for a 970 was also because I much rather support Mantle and AMD at least when it comes to GPUs. Nothing wrong with the awesome Nvidia cards mind you, but if someone is taking a bold step away from direct x and MS I think it's healthy to support it while still getting an awesome card that yes produces more heat and uses more power but nothing I can't handle.

 

Yup. I just used the GTX 970 mini itx in a build. Awesome card. Incredible how small it is and an amazing piece of technology. In my own machine? AMD GPU. Why? Cus I can use Gedosato (Nvidia DSR) and because to hell with MS. If Nvidia doesn't take Mantle now that it is public? To hell with them to. If they decline there should be an investigation as to WHY Nvidia would want a worse experience until DX 12 comes along. It literally makes zero sense other than a money hat from MS.

[deathjester]

Higher framerate is always better. Anyone who claims otherwise just has a lack of understanding on the subject.

 

60 LOCKED is always better. Unlocked and below 60? Depends on the game and mainly if that game is made by Ubisoft... Racing game? 60 or bust. You turn down settings to get a locked 60 or as close as you can. Same with multiplayer FPS. Need for Speed Rivals is trash at a locked 30 and a pretty darn good game at 60fps. 

[Faceman]

This is great and all, but it will be available at Razer Blade levels of pricing... I hope you understand that this is no solution for people that play on $400 consoles now...

You're misunderstanding my idea.

 

There is an entry level system that you buy.  It has the foundation, the tower that you plug everything into, and the least expensive level of componentry that will still play the game, similar to the level of our current consoles.  You also have the option of buying higher level components for more money, and the option of buying upgrades for each component as you see fit.  Yes, it will likely cost more than $400 to start, but it will give you the flexibility to upgrade in the future, this is the last console you will need.  All you do is just buy new components(blocks) as you see fit.

[Misanthrope]

I disagree; 

 

You can't: No I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything but higher FPS is objectively better since movement is more accurate and actually effects gameplay directly in a lot of games. For the purposes of this debate, this well not really up for debate. You can prefer the look of 30 FPS for games that are just glorified cutscenes and such since it would look closer to film (though those "filmic" look games? I seriously doubt their motion blur is worth a shit so that goes out of the window, still for the sake of argument let's say it's perfect) But for the you know, "game" aspects of a game? More FPS = More better cause of input lag and accuracy.

[HippY]

You can't: No I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything but higher FPS is objectively better since movement is more accurate and actually effects gameplay directly in a lot of games. For the purposes of this debate, this well not really up for debate. You can prefer the look of 30 FPS for games that are just glorified cutscenes and such since it would look closer to film (though those "filmic" look games? I seriously doubt their motion blur is worth a shit so that goes out of the window, still for the sake of argument let's say it's perfect) But for the you know, "game" aspects of a game? More FPS = More better cause of input lag and accuracy.

you are talking about 2 things:

He says that the FPS is fluctuating on the Pentium K, that is a bad experience, even though the numbers itself says otherwise.

The article is about when you cannot hit over 60 FPS stable due to hardware limitation, it might be useful to lock at 30, so there is no fluctuating and less tearing.