New Official 4080 16gb/12gb Benchmarks released by Nvidia (4080 12gb up to 30% slower in raster than 4080 16gb)

[Orangeator]

This is a massive disappointment from Nvidia. They definitely could have put out a more competitive product lineup this generation... Instead, they opted for the most egregious launch I have seen. The performance of the 12gb card is inadequate considering the price jump, and the 16gb card is way overpriced considering its price/performance gap from the 4090.

 

While the 4090 is a good deal relatively speaking - unless you are in the market for it, this generation is an absolute wash from Nvidia.

 

Overall, a disappointing launch that I will personally be skipping. 

[LAwLz]

I still can't believe people put this much emotion and care into what sticker that's on the box...

It feels like it's the only thing people talk about. That and the usual childish name calling. 

[porina]

9 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

its just kind of annoying Nvidia only allows DLSS3 and AV1 encoding with the 40 series.

You make it sound like an artificial limitation, but there is more to it than that. There is no AV1 encoder hardware before 40 series, so how were they going to enable that? DLSS3 I covered in more detail in the other thread so wont repeat myself here.

[Dracarris]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I still can't believe people put this much emotion and care into what sticker that's on the box...

It feels like it's the only thing people talk about. That and the usual childish name calling. 

Well okay lets ignore the sticker. The cards in question are horribly slow and priced compared to top-end last gen cards. We can call them YFJ789. Those poor properties remain.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I still can't believe people put this much emotion and care into what sticker that's on the box...

It's not emotion. It's misleading consumers.

 

4080 16GB and 4080 12GB suggest the difference between the two is just ram. It isn't, it's two different products.

What if Nvidia release:

• 4080 8GB that uses the 2060 die
• 4080 4GB that uses the 2050 die
• 4080 2GB that uses the 1030 die

Nvidia is using deceptive marketing to obfuscate the capability of their cards to consumers. Already I'm not fine for calling the 3080 laptop the same as the 3080 Desktop. it should be called 3080M or something to make it clear it's a different product you are buying.

 

I would be fine if Nvidia called the new cards 111 112 113 113M 113M-LR. I require that different products are called with different names.

  

2 hours ago, Orangeator said:

This is a massive disappointment from Nvidia. They definitely could have put out a more competitive product lineup this generation... Instead, they opted for the most egregious launch I have seen.

I fully expected the 4000 series launch to have irrational prices. It's par for the course after a crypto boom crash.

 

it was the same for the 2000 series. it takes a generation before marketing re-learns only crypto miners are willing to pay irrational prices at volume. I predict 4000 series sales will be poor and Nvidia will again pay fines to the FTC for misleading investors.

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

It's not emotion. It's misleading consumers.

 

4080 16GB and 4080 12GB suggest the difference between the two is just ram. It isn't, it's two different products.

What if Nvidia release:

• 4080 8GB that uses the 2060 die
• 4080 4GB that uses the 2050 die
• 4080 2GB that uses the 1030 die

Nvidia is using deceptive marketing to obfuscate the capability of their cards to consumers. Already I'm not fine for calling the 3080 laptop the same as the 3080 Desktop. it should be called 3080M or something to make it clear it's a different product you are buying.

 

I would be fine if Nvidia called the new cards 111 112 113 113M 113M-LR. I require that different products are called with different names.

  

I fully expected the 4000 series launch to have irrational prices. It's par for the course after a crypto boom crash.

 

it was the same for the 2000 series. it takes a generation before marketing re-learns only crypto miners are willing to pay irrational prices at volume. I predict 4000 series sales will be poor and Nvidia will again pay fines to the FTC for misleading investors.

Let's be honest here and realize a big part of the reason why nobody bought the 20 series is because the performance increase was underwhelming and made it hard to justify upgrading. Compare that to the 40 series and while yes it's expensive I can still see plenty of people buying the high end cards that have the big performance boosts. I mean I would imagine that 4090 and maybe a 4080 ti if that comes out later would be a big seller as the 4090 does objectively blow last gen out of the water in terms of performance and I could see many people with more money than they can spend buying these cards. You compare that to the 2080 ti vs the 1080ti and you can realize part of the problem. Sure the 2080 ti was faster but not by a significant amount. 

[starsmine]

4 hours ago, 05032-Mendicant-Bias said:

It's not emotion. It's misleading consumers.

 

4080 16GB and 4080 12GB suggest the difference between the two is just ram. It isn't, it's two different products.

What if Nvidia release:

• 4080 8GB that uses the 2060 die
• 4080 4GB that uses the 2050 die
• 4080 2GB that uses the 1030 die

Nvidia is using deceptive marketing to obfuscate the capability of their cards to consumers. Already I'm not fine for calling the 3080 laptop the same as the 3080 Desktop. it should be called 3080M or something to make it clear it's a different product you are buying.

 

I would be fine if Nvidia called the new cards 111 112 113 113M 113M-LR. I require that different products are called with different names.

  

I fully expected the 4000 series launch to have irrational prices. It's par for the course after a crypto boom crash.

 

it was the same for the 2000 series. it takes a generation before marketing re-learns only crypto miners are willing to pay irrational prices at volume. I predict 4000 series sales will be poor and Nvidia will again pay fines to the FTC for misleading investors.

its not misleading any consumer. Every single review will show both on a chart. 
The ram difference in the product name and the over last 10 years of nvidia products tells you its not just ram difference.

ANY CUSTOMER WHO EXPECTS 16GB PERFORMANCE, BUT HAS NOT LOOKED AT A REVIEW, DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY EXPECT. those consumers are impossible to mislead.
4080 12G uses the xx80 die. 104 is the xx80 die. you are not entitled to 103. sure they could have called the 103 the 4080 super or 4080 ti. and they still might, we dont have a full 103 die card. 102 but morecut down chips may also exist to fill in a future line up. 

The prices are an olive branch to AIBs to help them clear out ampere cards that they otherwise could not have. So yes lovelace sales will be "poor", but only because they dont want people choosing between ampere and lovelace at x price point AT the current time. Between ampere stock declining, and RDNA3, the 4080 12G price will drop significantly.
 

Another point, during 2020, the time of the chip shortage. you guys really seem to forget there was no shortage, they didnt make less ampere cards. They made more ampere cards then ever.
Demand grew 100% when supply only grew 20%. The shortage was not supply side, supply just could not RAMP fast enough to match demand ramp.

At the end of the day, Lovelace has had the biggest leap in price/performance nvidia has had since pascal. And complaining that the flagship cards have a flag ship price is insane when we know down range you can get a card at a price you want. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO A 4080. Stop with the insanity. be a normal person and buy what you can afford, not the best because its the best.
xx60 will do you fine

I don't understand this mentality, after watching people gush over ampere, which ampere was good... only when compared gen to gen with Turing.
ampere was mid.

[Dracarris]

20 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Compare that to the 40 series and while yes it's expensive I can still see plenty of people buying the high end cards that have the big performance boosts.

That will be the 4090 and a, maybe coming, 4080 16GB Ti Plus Super

The other perf boosts so far are laughable

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

[long rant against consumers expecting decent value and sensible, descriptive SKU naming]

Boy I know it has been said before, but I really do hope Nvidia pays you well.

[05032-Mendicant-Bias]

50 minutes ago, starsmine said:

ANY CUSTOMER WHO EXPECTS 16GB PERFORMANCE, BUT HAS NOT LOOKED AT A REVIEW, DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY EXPECT

I disagree. Naming matters, because only a minority of consumers look at in depth reviews. Which is fine! i don't want everyone that buys a computer to be either an expert or ripped off. I want people buying a computer to get proper value for their money, without in depth research being a requirement. Proper SKU naming goes a long way toward that.

E.g. I pointed out yesterday to to a friend the i3 12100 is now faster than my i7 8700 and his response was: "How? i7 are faster than i3. You are wrong" because on computers, you see i3, i5 i7 stickers. The generation is a small number that makes it think it doesn't matter.

Hardware unboxed summarizes the thought perfectly about why different product should not have the same name. What the name is, doesn't matter:

  

50 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Another point, during 2020, the time of the chip shortage. you guys really seem to forget there was no shortage, they didnt make less ampere cards. They made more ampere cards then ever.
Demand grew 100% when supply only grew 20%. The shortage was not supply side, supply just could not RAMP fast enough to match demand ramp.

if there aren't enough products for anyone that wants to buy said product, that's a shortage. Like you said, it was a demand induced shortage primarly caused by miners wanting to plug millions additional GPUs to the ethereum network ASAP and paying whatever Nvidia demanded to get them.

And make no mistake, there will be a 40xx shortage as well. Only it will last a few weeks at most (like it does in every non mining boom GPU launch), not years.

[Brooksie359]

22 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

That will be the 4090 and a, maybe coming, 4080 16GB Ti Plus Super

The other perf boosts so far are laughable

Boy I know it has been said before, but I really do hope Nvidia pays you well.

Oh I think we are sorta jumping the gun on the performance on gpus that haven't come out yet with 0 third party reviews. Like I said before the charts they show make the 4090 seem like a really good deal and these were provided by Nvidia themselves so I would be skeptical. I wouldn't be surprised if the performance of the other gpus were better than what nvida shows just to boost 4090 sales. I mean do you think it's a coincidence that they used a plague game that just so happens to have a 250% boost on the charts for 4090? 

[Dracarris]

18 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Oh I think we are sorta jumping the gun on the performance on gpus that haven't come out yet with 0 third party reviews. Like I said before the charts they show make the 4090 seem like a really good deal and these were provided by Nvidia themselves so I would be skeptical. I wouldn't be surprised if the performance of the other gpus were better than what nvida shows just to boost 4090 sales. I mean do you think it's a coincidence that they used a plague game that just so happens to have a 250% boost on the charts for 4090? 

Well yes but Nvidia can't delay 4080 sales forever, in fact it will be a few weeks from now (?) so such a strategy will have very limited effect but will once again cause a lot of bad publicity.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

The ram difference in the product name and the over last 10 years of nvidia products tells you its not just ram difference.

• VRAM capacity doesn't effect performance
• VRAM capacity is not an indicator of performance
• Past Nvidia VRAM capacity difference with GPU die difference obfuscated by only the VRAM capacity in the product name have been within 10% performance of the original product
• VRAM type does effect performance i.e. GT 1030 (DDR4) which was originally obfuscated by not having DDR4 in the product name, VRAM capacity was identical

 

Over the last decade VRAM difference in product name has NOT meant performance difference of the likes of the RTX 4080 12GB vs RTX 4080 16GB.

 

But lets limit this to a recent and actually product tier and price tier comparable example, RTX 3080 vs RTX 3080 12GB which has a difference of ~6%. What's the likely performance difference of the RTX 4080's?

 

At the end of the day you support anti-consumer business practices and actively support harming the consumer, please stop. It doesn't even matter what precedents Nvidia has done in the past, they were also anti-consumer and shouldn't be acceptable either. Repetitive bad behavior doesn't become good behavior simply by it being repeated.

[Sauron]

Pretty much exactly as expected, there's about half as much GPU in a 4080 compared to a 4090...

17 hours ago, agatong55 said:

So that means a 4070 will be worse then a 3070??

...how so? it could easily be a bit better.

[Dracarris]

6 minutes ago, Sauron said:

...how so? it could easily be a bit better.

But then there would be only a razor-thin margin for the 4080 12GB. It really all does not make a lot of sense.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, Dracarris said:

But then there would be only a razor-thin margin for the 4080 12GB. It really all does not make a lot of sense.

If these benchmarks are accurate there's still a 30%ish margin in which the 4070 could fit. Consider that it's the same gap as between the 3080 and the 3090ti...

[ewitte]

9 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

But then there would be only a razor-thin margin for the 4080 12GB. It really all does not make a lot of sense.

It didn't make sense to release it then.  From what I hear though both 4080s have HUGE margin based on the bill of materials costs. The only card with the typical markup is the 4090.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

its not misleading any consumer. Every single review will show both on a chart. 
The ram difference in the product name and the over last 10 years of nvidia products tells you its not just ram difference.

ANY CUSTOMER WHO EXPECTS 16GB PERFORMANCE, BUT HAS NOT LOOKED AT A REVIEW, DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY EXPECT. those consumers are impossible to mislead.
4080 12G uses the xx80 die. 104 is the xx80 die. you are not entitled to 103. sure they could have called the 103 the 4080 super or 4080 ti. and they still might, we dont have a full 103 die card. 102 but morecut down chips may also exist to fill in a future line up. 

The prices are an olive branch to AIBs to help them clear out ampere cards that they otherwise could not have. So yes lovelace sales will be "poor", but only because they dont want people choosing between ampere and lovelace at x price point AT the current time. Between ampere stock declining, and RDNA3, the 4080 12G price will drop significantly.
 

Another point, during 2020, the time of the chip shortage. you guys really seem to forget there was no shortage, they didnt make less ampere cards. They made more ampere cards then ever.
Demand grew 100% when supply only grew 20%. The shortage was not supply side, supply just could not RAMP fast enough to match demand ramp.

At the end of the day, Lovelace has had the biggest leap in price/performance nvidia has had since pascal. And complaining that the flagship cards have a flag ship price is insane when we know down range you can get a card at a price you want. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO A 4080. Stop with the insanity. be a normal person and buy what you can afford, not the best because its the best.
xx60 will do you fine

I don't understand this mentality, after watching people gush over ampere, which ampere was good... only when compared gen to gen with Turing.
ampere was mid.

I am sorry but this is just a HORRIFIC take. Like I literally lost brain cells reading this. The 4000 series (ADA Lovelace) DOES NOT HAVE "The biggest leap in price/performance nvidia has had since pascal.". The 4090 isn't bad. But both 4080s are hot garbage in price/performance. Straight awful. Not even just the 4080 12gb. The 4080 16gb is garbage too. Sure, the performance increase is significant in the 16gb version over the old 3080 10gb, but the price is almost double. Price/Performance actually went DOWN and the whole product stack starts higher now. Forget the name even. Even just the starting prices are horrific. The price/performance gen on gen is horrific. Usually they slot a faster card in at a lower price point. What could you get for $699 3080 10gb price back in 2018 during turing launch? A 2080 that was like half as fast practically? Even the 3070 (a $499 card) beat the $1199 2080ti in most titles. Let alone the $699 3080 10gb (still $500 cheaper than the 2080ti). The 3080 10gb put the smackdown on the 2080ti big time. This gen, for the same price (except the 4090), you are actually getting the same performance as before if not LESS. It's atrocious. 

 

I fully expect the "4070" to be $699 and perform exactly like the 3080 10gb. Price/performance is staying the same/going down while also pricing more people out. The 4060 (which is generally the most purchased sku) is going to be like $500. That prices a lot of people out entirely from the pc market.

 

I can't get over how bad a take this is/just how false it is as well. 

[ewitte]

1 hour ago, starsmine said:

its not misleading any consumer. Every single review will show both on a chart. 
The ram difference in the product name and the over last 10 years of nvidia products tells you its not just ram difference.

ANY CUSTOMER WHO EXPECTS 16GB PERFORMANCE, BUT HAS NOT LOOKED AT A REVIEW, DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY EXPECT. those consumers are impossible to mislead.

You underestimate the average consumer, their level of knowledge and ability to do research.  They may see one review but not know there is a difference.  Judging how people reacted the last few years I'm more surprised the vast majority don't have difficulties feeding and clothing themselves...

[CTR640]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

At the end of the day you support anti-consumer business practices and actively support harming the consumer, please stop. It doesn't even matter what precedents Nvidia has done in the past, they were also anti-consumer and shouldn't be acceptable either. Repetitive bad behavior doesn't become good behavior simply by it being repeated.

Very very well said! Those who supports that crap and defends such practices are really the biggest shills and *** lickers and loves to bend over. Companies really can use them and they are happy with such people. Is that kind of loyalty for such companies? Or their heads stuck in the sand? Supporting to harm the consumer and defending anti-consumer practices? Incredible!

[AndreiArgeanu]

2 hours ago, starsmine said:

The ram difference in the product name and the over last 10 years of nvidia products tells you its not just ram difference.

In the past years the difference between memory sizes in nvidia cards was usually around 10% or less not 20 to 30%. Looking at the GTX 770(2GB/4GB), GTX 960(2GB/4GB), GTX 1060(3GB/6GB), RTX 2060(6GB/12GB), the 770 and 960 are exactly the same when compared to the skews with more ram and the 1060 and 2060 are within 10% or so of each of their respective variant with more ram. There's never been as far as I can remember a gap this large in their desktop cards.

[ewitte]

1 minute ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

In the past years the difference between memory sizes in nvidia cards was usually around 10% or less not 20 to 30%. Looking at the GTX 770(2GB/4GB), GTX 960(2GB/4GB), GTX 1060(3GB/6GB), RTX 2060(6GB/12GB), the 770 and 960 are exactly the same when compared to the skews with more ram and the 1060 and 2060 are within 10% or so of each of their respective variant with more ram. There's never been as far as I can remember a gap this large in their desktop cards.

Or a completely different die.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

4 minutes ago, ewitte said:

Or a completely different die.

Exactly. This gen is an easy skip. 

 

If you NEED a new card, get a used 3080/6800xt

[Gamer Schnitzel]

Jensen has gone mad and the only one who can save us is Dr Lisa.

 

It is clear that the reason for these prices is the profit NVIDIA has made last year due to mining. Every company on the stock exchange is required to make more profit than last year to avoid shareholders pulling out. Jensen has misled shareholders by telling them that the increased profit the previous years was mainly due to gamers and not so much miners because he wanted to avoid shareholders attempting to sell their shares before the mining craze collapsed. Now that the miners are gone Jensen needs to somehow keep their revenue high so he is taking advantage of gullible gamers and is again lying through his teeth talking about how one should not expect "free performance" every release cycle.

No Jensen! I will be boycotting NVIDIA and buy an AMD card in December. Good luck in your investor call.

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

I am sorry but this is just a HORRIFIC take. Like I literally lost brain cells reading this. The 4000 series (ADA Lovelace) DOES NOT HAVE "The biggest leap in price/performance nvidia has had since pascal.". The 4090 isn't bad. But both 4080s are hot garbage in price/performance. Straight awful. Not even just the 4080 12gb. The 4080 16gb is garbage too. Sure, the performance increase is significant in the 16gb version over the old 3080 10gb, but the price is almost double. Price/Performance actually went DOWN and the whole product stack starts higher now. Forget the name even. Even just the starting prices are horrific. The price/performance gen on gen is horrific. Usually they slot a faster card in at a lower price point. What could you get for $699 3080 10gb price back in 2018 during turing launch? A 2080 that was like half as fast practically? Even the 3070 (a $499 card) beat the $1199 2080ti in most titles. Let alone the $699 3080 10gb (still $500 cheaper than the 2080ti). The 3080 10gb put the smackdown on the 2080ti big time. This gen, for the same price (except the 4090), you are actually getting the same performance as before if not LESS. It's atrocious. 

 

I fully expect the "4070" to be $699 and perform exactly like the 3080 10gb. Price/performance is staying the same/going down while also pricing more people out. The 4060 (which is generally the most purchased sku) is going to be like $500. That prices a lot of people out entirely from the pc market.

 

I can't get over how bad a take this is/just how false it is as well. 

I think the horrible take is looking at 3 random games and making any reasonable conclusions on the performance of these new cards especially because it's not like the 3 games have similar performance differences between cards. How about we wait for third party reviews before we go out can say that the 4080 is hot garbage. 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

2 minutes ago, Gamer Schnitzel said:

Jensen has gone mad and the only one who can save us is Dr Lisa.

 

It is clear that the reason for these prices is the profit NVIDIA has made last year due to mining. Every company on the stock exchange is required to make more profit than last year to avoid shareholders pulling out. Jensen has misled shareholders by telling them that the increased profit the previous years was mainly due to gamers and not so much miners because he wanted to avoid shareholders attempting to sell their shares before the mining craze collapsed. Now that the miners are gone Jensen needs to somehow keep their revenue high so he is taking advantage of gullible gamers and is again lying through his teeth talking about how one should not expect "free performance" every release cycle.

No Jensen! I will be boycotting NVIDIA and buy an AMD card in December. Good luck in your investor call.

Jensen is a crackpot. RDNA3 will be expensive but I think it will at least perform well and have decent Raster/$