New Official 4080 16gb/12gb Benchmarks released by Nvidia (4080 12gb up to 30% slower in raster than 4080 16gb)

[StDragon]

Seems obvious to me. Nvidia is milking the 4090 through market segmentation in by making their lower tier have a reduced value. They will re-calibrate back to normalcy via injecting the Ti series in between their existing lineup to compete against AMD and Intel.

 

Be patient. Nvidia isn't above market forces. Their hand will be forced to adjust like everyone else's.

[SolarNova]

No amount of 're-calibrating' is going to bring a future 4080ti down to ~$750.

 

Face it, Nvidia has given 'us' the finger big time this generation (and the last 2).

The signs have been there since the 20 series, with the 2080 being no better than the 1080ti at launch but costing the same, and the 2080ti being better but costing over $1000. Then the 30 series continued on from that, and now the 40 series has gone even further by not only sticking with the prices increases but by also lowering the quality of the silicon being used.

 

Not that those who defend the 40 series will be interested, but if u look at the history of GPU dies, you can see how far Nvidia has dropped the tiers and increased the prices.

 

Using the 4090 specs as a baseline as it its 'nearly' a full fat Die, the theoretical specs of a 4080 should be in region of 11,600 cores at a price of around $575.  (historically the core jump from x80 to titan/x90 is on average ~40%)

What we have is a 'GPU' with 9728 cores and a price of $1200.

That 'should' be a 4070ti, with that core count. With a price of ~ $475

The $900 GPU with 7680 cores, is more akin to a 4060ti, which should be ~ $325

 

A $1600 4090, is perfectly fine, the 700 , 900 and 10 series cards all had equivalents. But a 4080ti should be coming in at ~ 5% lower core count, for substantially less cost.. ~$750 .. But thats not going to happen with the current listed prices of the so called '4080s' (4060ti and 4070ti), and based on the previous 2 generations.

 

This generation is totally FUBAR, and those still buying into it are screwing not only themselves over in the long term, but also the rest of the community aswell, by rewarding Nvidia for this behavior.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

1 minute ago, SolarNova said:

No amount of 're-calibrating' is going to bring a future 4080ti down to ~$750.

 

Face it, Nvidia has given 'us' the finger big time this generation (and the last 2).

The signs have been there since the 20 series, with the 2080 being no better than the 1080ti at launch but costing the same, and the 2080ti being better but costing over $1000. Then the 30 series continued on from that, and now the 40 series has gone even further by not only sticking with the prices increases but by also lowering the quality of the silicon being used.

 

Not that those who defend the 40 series will be interested, but if u look at the history of GPU dies, you can see how far Nvidia has dropped the tiers and increased the prices.

 

Using the 4090 specs as a baseline as it its 'nearly' a full fat Die, the theoretical specs of a 4080 should be in region of 11,600 cores at a price of around $575.  (historically the core jump from x80 to titan/x90 is on average ~40%)

What we have is a 'GPU' with 9728 cores and a price of $1200.

That 'should' be a 4070ti, with that core count. With a price of ~ $475

The $900 GPU with 7680 cores, is more akin to a 4060ti, which should be ~ $325

 

A $1600 4090, is perfectly fine, the 700 , 900 and 10 series cards all had equivalents. But a 4080ti should be coming in at ~ 5% lower core count, for substantially less cost.. ~$750 .. But thats not going to happen with the current listed prices of the so called '4080s' (4060ti and 4070ti), and based on the previous 2 generations.

 

This generation is totally FUBAR, and those still buying into it are screwing not only themselves over in the long term, but also the rest of the community aswell, by rewarding Nvidia for this behavior.

I agree 100%. They are saving face a bit though.

 

The 4080 12gb is cancelled

[SolarNova]

4 minutes ago, CHICKSLAYA said:

I agree 100%. They are saving face a bit though.

 

The 4080 12gb is cancelled

So they have.

Still..... they are still a whole tier askew.

The '4080 16GB' is to far removed from the 4090 to be a 4080.

A 68% core difference is closer to the difference between a x70 and x90, than a x80 to x90 (which is ~40%.)

 

If things stay as is, a future 4080ti will not only be stupid expensive once again, it will also may not be within the usual 0-9% core difference (5% average) , and thus performance, that previous x80ti to titan/90 have been.

 

Which brings me back to ....

13 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

No amount of 're-calibrating' is going to bring a future 4080ti down to ~$750

 

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

1 minute ago, SolarNova said:

So they have.

Still..... they are still a whole tier askew.

The '4080 16GB' is to far removed from the 4090 to be a 4080.

A 68% core difference is closer to the difference between a x70 and x90, than a x80 to x90 (which is ~40%.)

 

If things stay as is, a future 4080ti will not only be stupid expensive once again, it will also may not be within the usual 0-9% core difference (5% average) , and thus performance, that previous x80ti to titan/90 have been.

 

Which brings me back to ....

 

Yup. The pricing is still a whole tier off

[Alcarin]

People who buy the wickedly overpriced 4080 and the 4070 cosplaying as the 4080 "12GB" are just encouraging the normalization of these insane prices. Nvidia is laughing all the way to the bank with this.

 

Shame.

[Blademaster91]

5 hours ago, CTR640 said:

nGreedia has removed the LHR in their latest driver lol!

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-reportedly-removes-lite-hash-rate-limiter-with-the-latest-driver

 

This to increase the sales of the RTX30. They've gotten really used to the insane sales by miners and scalpers so they refuse to lower the RTX30 prices.

Didn't Nvidia say LHR  was a hardware limiter?  It seems like they're trying to look good even though mining isn't profitable.

[CTR640]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Didn't Nvidia say LHR  was a hardware limiter?  It seems like they're trying to look good even though mining isn't profitable.

That has been in my mind al along! This is another proof that nGreedia is straight up lying. So all the "LHR" is just complete bullshit?

[AryA_65]

Maybe out of pocket, but is it possible to boycott nvidia and make videos/adds shaming them without consequences (such as lawsuits, etc)?

 

 

[ewitte]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:15 PM, agatong55 said:

So that means a 4070 will be worse then a 3070?? If so Nvidia screwed up but and this a HUGE but, I think this fake and trying to get AMD to feel good for themselves, the numbers for RDNA 3 will be interesting. 

If they can do the same as the "4080 12GB" with higher bus width but GDDR6 instead of GDDR6X, reduce cooling/power and only drop about 10% performance it would be a great 4070 depending on the price.

[ewitte]

6 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

That has been in my mind al along! This is another proof that nGreedia is straight up lying. So all the "LHR" is just complete bullshit?

It was a combination.  At the beginning it was able to get passed LHR just by using the pre-release beta driver.  I believe they "fixed" that with future hardware.

[BachChain]

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-unlaunches-rtx-4080-12gb

I guess even NVidia couldn't bear that level of bad publicity

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Didn't Nvidia say LHR  was a hardware limiter?  It seems like they're trying to look good even though mining isn't profitable.

 

2 hours ago, CTR640 said:

That has been in my mind al along! This is another proof that nGreedia is straight up lying. So all the "LHR" is just complete bullshit?

It was supposed to be both, in silicon or microcode/firmware component with activation of the limiter via drivers. What the truth actually is, only Nvidia knows.

[LAwLz]

15 hours ago, CTR640 said:

That has been in my mind al along! This is another proof that nGreedia is straight up lying. So all the "LHR" is just complete bullshit?

Dude, calm down.

This is not proof of Nvidia lying about anything. LHR was not bullshit either. It was a real thing.

 

 

LHR was at first a software lock. However, people bypassed it very quickly so in a later revision of the cards they modified something else on the cards to make it harder to bypass. It was probably some firmware to verify the driver in order to make sure the software limit was on.

Seems like they have now removed the limit in their driver in a way that doesn't trip the hardware check (probably just need correctly signed drivers).

 

 

If you ask me, these are great news. The whole "LHR" thing was really stupid to begin with. Companies should not tell their customers what they are or aren't allowed to do with the hardware they bought.

[HumdrumPenguin]

Unless you get a 4090, stay away from the 4000 series for now (it's the only one available, but you get the point)

[SolarNova]

1 hour ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

Unless you get a 4090, stay away from the 4000 series for now (it's the only one available, but you get the point)

While i hate its price, i have to agree.

Despite it being the Titan of the 40 series, along with the associated price tag, it is the only GPU that makes sense.

The now only remaining so called 4080 16GB, just doesnt make any sense for a 'reasonable' person to buy, its way over priced and way under speced.

Even if the now 'unreleased' 4080 12gb gets rebranded, i highly .. HIGHLY... doubt they will rebrand it a 4060ti (with a proper price tag ~ $325) which is what its speced as, more likely it will be a 4070 or 4070ti ..a whole tier. .or 2 ..higher than it should be along with an equally stupid price.

 

Im not going to lie and say this generation is a total wash, its clear Nvidia has the performance available, its just how they are segmenting and pricing these GPU thats making it such a bad generation for consumers.

 

Whats worse is rumors have it that AMD wont be able to compete at the high end ,raw performance wise, and even if they only reach the so called 4080 16gb level of performance on their top card, they wont undercut Nvidia enough to bring the price down from the eye wateringly stupid $1200, to the normal (based on historic averages with inflation) price of ~$575-600 for a x80 tier card.

I'd love to be wrong, AMD would obliterate Nvidias market share, even if they cant match a 4090, if they brought out their cards to match up to a 4080 16gb, but at pre 20 series pricing... that would REALLY kick Nvidia in the balls for being so complacent. but alas ..never going to happen.

[tikker]

On 10/14/2022 at 6:54 PM, SolarNova said:

So they have.

Still..... they are still a whole tier askew.

The '4080 16GB' is to far removed from the 4090 to be a 4080.

A 68% core difference is closer to the difference between a x70 and x90, than a x80 to x90 (which is ~40%.)

 

If things stay as is, a future 4080ti will not only be stupid expensive once again, it will also may not be within the usual 0-9% core difference (5% average) , and thus performance, that previous x80ti to titan/90 have been.

 

Which brings me back to ....

 

I see this more as something that makes the XX90 model actually worth buying this time, relatively speaking. A 3080 vs 3090 was more than a doubling in MSRP, from $699 to $1499, for not nearly that much of a performance increase as far as I remember. Now it's a 33% price increase, from $1199 to $1599, for a similar increase in performance looking at these benchmarks. That sounds like a much better deal to me. Very expensive cards overall still, but at least relatively speaking the pricing seems to make more sense from these limited results.

[SolarNova]

18 minutes ago, tikker said:

That sounds like a much better deal to me.

I have a bridge to sell you

 

 

[tikker]

7 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

I have a bridge to sell you

 

 

I didn't say I liked the absolute pricing, just that the relative pricing makes sense when comparing the price increase from the 4080 16 GB to the 4090 with the performance increase.

[SolarNova]

3 minutes ago, tikker said:

I didn't say I liked the absolute pricing, just that the relative pricing makes sense when comparing the price increase from the 4080 16 GB to the 4090 with the performance increase.

The worst thing any of us could do is encourage price increases based on performance increases.

Theres already been rumors/leaks that thats what AMD/ Nvidia are planning. if that is whats happening, and what will continue to happen, u can completely forget prices ever return to 'normal', resulting in home PCs becoming as expensive as ur 'average' family Car thanks to GPU prices going from 'hundreds' to 'thousands', maybe even 'tens of thousands'.

We've got over 20 years of, what we would call the modern 'graphics card', prices to go by and we have never had price increases based of performance increases, if we had, then by now we would be paying tens of thousands for a mid range card. Go back 20 years, add on inflation and then add on a price based on the performance increases we have had since then for each subsequent generation..its insane and should never be humored as something we should ever want or tolerate.

 

So no , one cant consider the price of a 4080 as 'making sense' based on the relative performance increase to the 4090.

[tikker]

13 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

The worst thing any of us could do is encourage price increases based on performance increases.

Theres already been rumors/leaks that thats what AMD/ Nvidia are planning. if that is whats happening, and what will continue to happen, u can completely forget prices ever return to 'normal', resulting in home PCs becoming as expensive as ur 'average' family Car thanks to GPU prices going from 'hundreds' to 'thousands', maybe even 'tens of thousands'.

We've got over 20 years of, what we would call the modern 'graphics card', prices to go by and we have never had price increases based of performance increases, if we had, then by now we would be paying tens of thousands for a mid range card. Go back 20 years, add on inflation and then add on a price based on the performance increases we have had since then for each subsequent generation..its insane and should never be humored as something we should ever want or tolerate.

 

So no , one cant consider the price of a 4080 as 'making sense' based on the relative performance increase to the 4090.

I think we're talking past each other a bit. I am not defending the high prices themselves nor am I saying the price increase with respect to the 3000 series makes sense.

 

I am merely contesting the point that the 4080 allegedly doesn't make sense compared to the 4090, because it was "too far from the 4090". The 4090 is 33% more expensive than the 4080 16GB and yields around that same number in terms of performance increase. Paying double the price of an XX80 for that same performance increase as with the 3080 to 3090 is a worse deal, no? We all loved to complain how the 3090 didn't make sense price-wise compared to the 3080.  Relatively speaking within the generation, we have a better situation this time where the 4090 seems about as more expensive as it yields more performance compared to the 4080.

 

 

The price itself is still a mess and, while there does seem to be indication of a slowly increasing trend, they are indeed quite above the (slowly rising) general trend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/jg816j/continuing_the_trend_inflation_adjusted_history/

 

[HumdrumPenguin]

On 10/15/2022 at 11:17 AM, SolarNova said:

While i hate its price, i have to agree.

Despite it being the Titan of the 40 series, along with the associated price tag, it is the only GPU that makes sense.

The now only remaining so called 4080 16GB, just doesnt make any sense for a 'reasonable' person to buy, its way over priced and way under speced.

Even if the now 'unreleased' 4080 12gb gets rebranded, i highly .. HIGHLY... doubt they will rebrand it a 4060ti (with a proper price tag ~ $325) which is what its speced as, more likely it will be a 4070 or 4070ti ..a whole tier. .or 2 ..higher than it should be along with an equally stupid price.

 

Im not going to lie and say this generation is a total wash, its clear Nvidia has the performance available, its just how they are segmenting and pricing these GPU thats making it such a bad generation for consumers.

 

Whats worse is rumors have it that AMD wont be able to compete at the high end ,raw performance wise, and even if they only reach the so called 4080 16gb level of performance on their top card, they wont undercut Nvidia enough to bring the price down from the eye wateringly stupid $1200, to the normal (based on historic averages with inflation) price of ~$575-600 for a x80 tier card.

I'd love to be wrong, AMD would obliterate Nvidias market share, even if they cant match a 4090, if they brought out their cards to match up to a 4080 16gb, but at pre 20 series pricing... that would REALLY kick Nvidia in the balls for being so complacent. but alas ..never going to happen.

Kinda sad indeed. I was on a 2080 Ti for a long while, and wanted a 3080 Ti at MSRP, but it was never available. I stopped searching at some point, and when they did show up the 4000 series were about to come out.

I don’t buy PC components used. Never did, and never will for a number of reasons, so I didn’t want to pay a lot for something that would soon be heavily outmatched (albeit at a bit over double the current price here in Canada). The only problem is that none of the cards aside from the 4090 made any sense to me if comparing to previous generations. Just look at the graphs. I didn’t think I would ever buy a xx90 card due to the cash that goes on unused VRAM, but in such circumstances that’s what I ended up doing anyway. I might as well update the X34P monitor at this rate. Starfield and Diablo IV would thank me.

[Deadpool2onBlu-Ray]

4 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

Kinda sad indeed. I was on a 2080 Ti for a long while, and wanted a 3080 Ti at MSRP, but it was never available. I stopped searching at some point, and when they did show up the 4000 series were about to come out.

I don’t buy PC components used. Never did, and never will for a number of reasons, so I didn’t want to pay a lot for something that would soon be heavily outmatched (albeit at a bit over double the current price here in Canada). The only problem is that none of the cards aside from the 4090 made any sense to me if comparing to previous generations. Just look at the graphs. I didn’t think I would ever buy a xx90 card due to the cash that goes on unused VRAM, but in such circumstances that’s what I ended up doing anyway. I might as well update the X34P monitor at this rate. Starfield and Diablo IV would thank me.

Buying used FTW 

[Quackers101]

now Nvidia might be pushing for a new 3060 or 3060ti version that is lower spec'ed.  (with same name)

Edited October 28, 2022 by Quackers101

[TOMPPIX]

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-12-gb-graphics-card-benchmarks-leak-out-slower-than-3090-ti/