Windows 11 to release on Oct 5th, No Android App support at launch

[GoodBytes]

11 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Despite the fact that MS is collaborating with Amazon (which I don't like, but corps are just being corps), it's a shame they won't include it in their final release. Their 'showing off' of the feature was just another selling point, nothing more. Whether it's worth using remains to be seen in the insider versions if they'll release it to that branch anytime soon.

Microsoft is open to all Stores. Valve, Epic, Google.

So far, only Amazon shown interest. This probably because Amazon wants all the help it can get for people to use its Android store to get app support.

 

Sideload is supported... but of course, if the ties to Google service, Google needs to make that possible... probably won't.

[wanderingfool2]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

Most people would normally upgrade their system by then in any case.

That really I think depends what you consider most people.  I know some of my friends won't, because they don't have it in their budget to purchase a new system because they dumped it into their previous system (and need to save).  Less techy people as well I find keep their systems for a lot longer.  I wouldn't be surprised by 2025 if you find that a good 30 - 40% of people haven't switched to a new computer capable of Windows 11.

 

The other big issue is that people won't want to switch when their computer is working just fine.  My older system, which won't be compatible with Windows 11 works fine (and is used by other people in my family).  I could upgrade the motherboard and CPU, but that's an additional cost for what I am assuming to be worse performance.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 hour ago, WereCat said:

I jumped on all Windows versions as soon as possible. 8.1 was imo good. I even liked Windows Phone. But I find nothing interesting about 11.

8.1 was mainly ui and stability wasnt it?
Windows 10m is pterry good for the final update (2020-1b), windows 8 phone was bad imo

I actually like some of the ui changes in win11, Im still undecided about the new start menu, i think ill like it tbh, though, android will be cool, once it happens.

I do wonder if any of the windows 10m project astoria code will be used for windows 11 android stuff

[GreatnessRD]

2 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Cool. I'll do a clean install myself.

Same. And if I consider Win11 ass cheeks, I'll just revert back to Win10.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

41 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft is open to all Stores. Valve, Epic, Google.

So far, only Amazon shown interest. This probably because Amazon wants all the help it can get for people to use its Android store to get app support.

 

Sideload is supported... but of course, if the ties to Google service, Google needs to make that possible... probably won't.

It would probably be about the same as adding google support for non google play devices, like putting it on a fire.

You just need to install all of the dependancies then you can install play

[Vishera]

Windows 11 is just a gimmick.

Taking Windows 10,bloating it with more unnecessary features,copying UI elements from other operating systems and calling it Windows 11...

[GoodBytes]

26 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Windows 11 is just a gimmick.

Taking Windows 10,bloating it with more unnecessary features,copying UI elements from other operating systems and calling it Windows 11...

Sounds like your PC desperately needs updating if you are having trouble running Windows 10.

[HarryNyquist]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The update isn't available to non compatible system. You won't even show.

I'm sure there were systems that weren't compatible with Windows 10 that got the upgrade notification for that. 

 

We'll see how this goes.

[GoodBytes]

Just now, HarryNyquist said:

I'm sure there were systems that weren't compatible with Windows 10 that got the upgrade notification for that. 

 

We'll see how this goes.

Windows 10 was available to all... and I think you recall the issue it raised for some...

[whm1974]

Maybe I have been using Linux for too long, but I'm of the thinking that OS Vendors should make sure the OS actually works before offering for sale.

[Lurick]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

Maybe I have been using Linux for too long, but I'm of the thinking that OS Vendors should make sure the OS actually works before offering for sale.

You mean test against millions of different hardware combinations and then billions of possible software combinations? Because Windows 11 works pretty well from where I'm sitting and works just fine. Sure there are some minor annoyances/bugs but nothing major.

[Blademaster91]

11 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows 10 was available to all... and I think you recall the issue it raised for some...

The issues that Microsoft caused with an OS that wasn't stable at release, and I think restricting an OS to newer PC's only and not being clear on what is supported and why only newer PC's can run Windows 11 is much worse than any issues that might be from making the OS available to all that want to use it.

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The focus of Windows 11 is on the user experience, and not features.

Yet, people are calling the end of the world because their old system isn't compatible for it, and act as if on Oct 5h everyone on the planet will throw away their computers and buy a new one. Even its big features new Store, WSLg, and DirectStorage, are coming to Windows 10. Heck, DirectStorage isn't' even out for WIn11 yet, and we need games that will use it. Personally, I expect that by 2024-2025 Windows 11 will be worthwhile to upgrade. In the meantime, Windows 10 is supported until end of 2025. Most people would normally upgrade their system by then in any case.

The Microsoft surface studio 2 isn't old, MS sells it on their store, and it still comes with an Intel 7th gen CPU yet Microsoft insists on limiting support to Intel 8th gen and newer. Thats kinda dumb in my opinion.

So basically Windows 11 is a windows 10 service pack, and 10 is getting basically all the features anyone should care about, install windows 11 if you like having an even more confusing to use UI that looks like something ripped off from Chrome OS if you leave the taskbar at the default setting. Also most people don't upgrade their systems that often, most keep theirs unless it doesn't run chrome decently well.

[shermantanker]

I don't think I bother with a clean install on my current rig. I have a 5900x coming in today and once I get the rest of the parts over the coming months, I'll install it on my new system. My motherboard is already a little finicky and my 5930k is pretty dated now and I don't need to subject it to god knows what in regard to compatibility.

[linkboy]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The issues that Microsoft caused with an OS that wasn't stable at release, and I think restricting an OS to newer PC's only and not being clear on what is supported and why only newer PC's can run Windows 11 is much worse than any issues that might be from making the OS available to all that want to use it.

The Microsoft surface studio 2 isn't old, MS sells it on their store, and it still comes with an Intel 7th gen CPU yet Microsoft insists on limiting support to Intel 8th gen and newer. Thats kinda dumb in my opinion.

So basically Windows 11 is a windows 10 service pack, and 10 is getting basically all the features anyone should care about, install windows 11 if you like having an even more confusing to use UI that looks like something ripped off from Chrome OS if you leave the taskbar at the default setting. Also most people don't upgrade their systems that often, most keep theirs unless it doesn't run chrome decently well.

They actually just made an exception for the 7820HQ that the Surface Studio 2 uses.

 

It's the only non Xeon or X-Series 7th gen CPU to be supported. 

[Blademaster91]

Just now, linkboy said:

They actually just made an exception for the 7820HQ that the Surface Studio 2 uses.

 

It's the only non Xeon or X-Series 7th gen CPU to be supported. 

I didn't know it got updated,  so Microsoft made an exception for a mobile CPU, not surprising, and the HEDT 7th gen cpu's, but no explanation why an i5 7600K or i7 7700K for example aren't going to be supported.

[linkboy]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

I didn't know it got updated,  so Microsoft made an exception for a mobile CPU, not surprising, and the HEDT 7th gen cpu's, but no explanation why an i5 7600K or i7 7700K for example aren't going to be supported.

They made that exception because they would be evicirated (even more then they already are) if a $3,500 computer they're still selling wouldn't be able to be upgraded to their newest operating system. 

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

That really I think depends what you consider most people.  I know some of my friends won't, because they don't have it in their budget to purchase a new system because they dumped it into their previous system (and need to save).

Think of situations like this as something like the example I'm about to give. The entire of New Zealand might not upgrade to Windows 11, that's only ~5m people yet it's an entire country. Things can seem big but yet actually be small.

 

So when someone says most people will not upgrade there will still be a decent amount that will or would have wanted to, could be "an entire country worth of people" but still only be a small group of people with that wider view of what "most" actually is.

 

275 million computers were sold last year, 2021 is already trending 30% odd higher. 262 million in 2019. The notion that Windows 11 was designed to drive an increase in PC sales really just doesn't hold water. I've yet to see a non emotional evidenced argument to the former position of this idea.

[Kisai]

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The focus of Windows 11 is on the user experience, and not features.

Yet, people are calling the end of the world because their old system isn't compatible for it, and act as if on Oct 5h everyone on the planet will throw away their computers and buy a new one. Even its big features new Store, WSLg, and DirectStorage, are coming to Windows 10. Heck, DirectStorage isn't' even out for WIn11 yet, and we need games that will use it. Personally, I expect that by 2024-2025 Windows 11 will be worthwhile to upgrade. In the meantime, Windows 10 is supported until end of 2025. Most people would normally upgrade their system by then in any case.

 

Honestly, I'd hold off upgrading unless the feature you need is there at the time. For example, I have no hardware that can take advantage of DirectStorage. Android is not something I use, I don't need WSLg, etc. So I'm fine holding out by keeping the fTPM turned off. The intel 9th gen laptop which is Windows 11 upgrade capable, I can try it first on.

 

[HerrKaLeu]

I'm a noob... so this may be a stupid question. But why is android app support important to you guys? 

All the (useful to me) apps on my phone really only work with phone hardware or only make sense on a mobile device. My PC doesn't have (or need) GPS, accelerator sensors, etc. and that is what most apps use. The apps that don't require the phone hardware, or only make sense on a hand-held device, are easily available in a windows version (browser, mail etc.).

 

I'm sure I'm totally missing something here. 

[Kisai]

53 minutes ago, HerrKaLeu said:

I'm a noob... so this may be a stupid question. But why is android app support important to you guys? 

 

Feature Parity with iOS/MacOS.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, HerrKaLeu said:

I'm a noob... so this may be a stupid question. But why is android app support important to you guys? 

All the (useful to me) apps on my phone really only work with phone hardware or only make sense on a mobile device. My PC doesn't have (or need) GPS, accelerator sensors, etc. and that is what most apps use. The apps that don't require the phone hardware, or only make sense on a hand-held device, are easily available in a windows version (browser, mail etc.).

 

I'm sure I'm totally missing something here. 

• Development (Testing)
• Home automation apps
• Use phone only messaging apps with a physical keyboard
• Some apps are only on Android (or iOS) and don't have a web version.

[captain_to_fire]

Windows 11: Ask not if a PC can run Crysis, ask if it has TPM 2.0 and a CPU from 2017. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RedRound2]

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Does anyone know what Panos was talking about when he was hyping Windows 11 as the fastest Windows yet? I haven't heard of any performance enhancements other than DirectStorage and the new IO ring buffer, but the former is coming to Windows 10 and the latter is very minor. 

Probably how 11 takes better advantages of multiple threads and big.LITTLE enhancements, the former of which was shown on the recent LTT video

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Think of situations like this as something like the example I'm about to give. The entire of New Zealand might not upgrade to Windows 11, that's only ~5m people yet it's an entire country. Things can seem big but yet actually be small.

 

So when someone says most people will not upgrade there will still be a decent amount that will or would have wanted to, could be "an entire country worth of people" but still only be a small group of people with that wider view of what "most" actually is.

 

275 million computers were sold last year, 2021 is already trending 30% odd higher. 262 million in 2019. The notion that Windows 11 was designed to drive an increase in PC sales really just doesn't hold water. I've yet to see a non emotional evidenced argument to the former position of this idea.

Not arguing that it is to drive sales (although I do suspect that it does play a smaller reason in everything).

 

The majority will not have "upgraded" by the 2025 time (to systems that would be W11 compatible). I'm basing it off of people around me in my life that are not tech people.  A general point though, is that it's likely to hurt those who can't really afford upgrades the most...I would actually argue for the average user, modern CPU specs really haven't made much of a difference to daily driving use for quite some time now.  Computer sales are mostly I think being generated by business as well, as the cycle of hardware refreshes is a thing.

 

Again, not saying that the decision was made to drive sales, but as a whole it's still I think it's improper to have claims stated that "most people would upgrade their systems by that time"...because of my family/friends/co-workers (the non-tech coworkers) I would say the majority of them won't be upgrading their system until it breaks.

[LAwLz]

11 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Not arguing that it is to drive sales (although I do suspect that it does play a smaller reason in everything).

 

The majority will not have "upgraded" by the 2025 time (to systems that would be W11 compatible). I'm basing it off of people around me in my life that are not tech people.  A general point though, is that it's likely to hurt those who can't really afford upgrades the most...I would actually argue for the average user, modern CPU specs really haven't made much of a difference to daily driving use for quite some time now.  Computer sales are mostly I think being generated by business as well, as the cycle of hardware refreshes is a thing.

 

Again, not saying that the decision was made to drive sales, but as a whole it's still I think it's improper to have claims stated that "most people would upgrade their systems by that time"...because of my family/friends/co-workers (the non-tech coworkers) I would say the majority of them won't be upgrading their system until it breaks.

This mirrors my experience too. 

My mom's computer has a 2500K in it (my old CPU). 

My step-dad has a Phenom II 955 in it. 

My sister has some third gen i3 in it. 

My grandma and grandad has some old AMD APUs. 

 

All of them are well above 5 years old, some closing in on 10. Then are certainly not in a hurry. 

 

 

I do think the cut support for older CPUs is because they want to drive hardware sales further. I mean, I think "they already sell well" doesn't disprove anything. That same argument could be used for things we already know have planned obsolescence, because apparently a company has never been interested in selling more products. 

 

The reason why I think the whole "we only support some CPUs" has nothing to do with "they need to cut down on the amount of systems they support" is that there has never been a windows 10 bug that relates to a specific CPU or even specific CPU family. It doesn't even make sense that it would be CPU specific because that's not how CPUs work. 

In like 95% of cases it has been a driver related issue, like some wifi NIC having some bug, but as far as I know Microsoft has not made any hardware requirement that excludes any of the hardware we know have caused issues in Windows 10.

 

So they are cutting support for hardware we know hasn't caused any issues in the past, but they are keeping support for hardware we do know have caused issues, yet some people seem absolutely determined that it's for stability reasons? Give me a break... Not even Microsoft has said that they are dropping the older generations of CPUs for ease of development purposes. That argument wouldn't even make sense because you so not program for a specific CPU. If it works on one it works on all (except some very specific cases).