Surface Day! - Surface Go 2, New docks, Surface Book 3, Headphones, Earphones

[Sorenson]

3 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Two more cores to throttle faster and get less work done (reminder that in many situations because the cooling is insufficient, the higher core count MB Pro is actually slower than the lower core one). Also 1660ti is more power efficient than the 2060, so that's self-evidently why.

 

That was fixed by a firmware update on the 2018(?) model and the 2016 MacBook Pro has much better cooling performance.

[hishnash]

Just now, Sorenson said:

That was fixed by a firmware update on the 2018(?) model and the 2016 MacBook Pro has much better cooling performance.

It was an issue with intel's handling of VRM singles the fix was not a firmware fix but an OS kernel patch.

When the os boots it sets a hock in the cpu so that when the VRM sends a signal to the cpu the kernel can handle that rather than the intel cpu firmware doing what it did (pull the clock speed to 0). The kernel fix instead was able to only reduce the cpu clock speed a little so that power load was within spec.

This is why the fix only applies on macOS and not other operating systems, and why the Dell machines released at the same time with the same cpus still have this issue (MS have not issued this fix). 

 

This is something that intel should have fixed across the board.
 

[Sorenson]

Does anybody know if the surface book 3 use the 15w or 25 w version of the i7-1065G7? 

[SenKa]

Nice. No difference to me though, I could never jive with windows on mobile devices. Owned a couple surface pro's over the years and just didnt much care for them. I would much rather carry around a macbook pro and iPad/iPad Pro.

 

They will sell a whole bunch of them, im just not the target audience. 

[hishnash]

8 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I wonder if this will work on an iPad Pro because many USB C hubs that works on a Mac is a hit or miss on the iPad Pro unless it’s MFi certified. 

USB-C devices on the iPad Pro do not need any MFi.

All USB-C devices work perfectly with iPadPro, docks work as well.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, williamcll said:

Misspell on OP

Oops! Thanks!

 

Quote

Looking at the price and performance, it seems like razer has a better deal here, I'm not playing a 1650 for the price of a 2080 Ti build.

Well, Razer doesn't have its screen that detaches or pen support. That said and regardless:

 

Surface will not be a good deal, ever. It is a reference device. Microsoft doesn't aim to compete against its OEM partners. Microsoft said that they always hoped that OEMs make similar devices. It was made to break the "boring beige box" impression that PCs has/had. Push the PC industry forward (example: high resolution, IPS screen was rare/non-existent on laptops before the Surface Pro 1, despite Apple using it for a while).  In other words, it is Microsoft answer to Apple and is priced alike. I won't be surprised if Microsoft its makes its own 700$ wheels.  They’re made to be expensive and look like it. If you look at marketing material, the Surface line is presented as a fashion device.

 

In all my recommendations, I always said, if you don't care about the pen, or the looks, you can find a better deal elsewhere. You want a Surface? You'll pay the Surface tax, sadly.  

[captain_to_fire]

54 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

seriously: just get an iPad, you'll thank me later 

Not sure if a high overhead OS like a full Windows 10 would run smoothly on 4GB RAM, eMMC storage an a Pentium Gold 4425Y. 
 

Also, the 128 GB iPad would just cost $30 more. https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-ipad/ipad-10-2/128gb-silver-wifi

[captain_to_fire]

7 minutes ago, hishnash said:

USB-C devices on the iPad Pro do not need any MFi.

All USB-C devices work perfectly with iPadPro, docks work as well.

Unfortunately I had an experience where my USB C to VGA dongle worked on my laptop but refused to work on a friend’s 2018 iPad Pro. Perhaps the VGA projector is the one to blame but that event made me buy dongles from Apple which are not cheap btw. 

[GoodBytes]

3 hours ago, Sorenson said:

Does anybody know if the surface book 3 use the 15w or 25 w version of the i7-1065G7? 

No info, but most likely the 12W (or 15W) version as the CPU is in the screen. The previous model was 15W. I don't think the super small and thin cooling solution is enough to properly cool the chip if it is set to 25W.  In the end, the performance will be very similar to the 25W version in benchmarks. It just won't boost as much and just have a more aggressive power saving profile. 

[hishnash]

3 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Unfortunately I had an experience where my USB C to VGA dongle worked on my laptop but refused to work on a friend’s 2018 iPad Pro.

I have not attempted to use VGA over USB-C from my iPadPro. DisplayPort and HDMI work well as does networking and normal usb audio etc. People have done things like attached floppy disk drives (through chain of connectors) and had them work but i bet that is a matter of finding just the right sequence of connectors.

[Warin]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

seriously: just get an iPad, you'll thank me later 

I was seriously considering a Surface Pro 7, but wound up getting an 11" 2020 iPad pro.  Sure, I can't play Kerbal Space Program on the iPad, but it is just way more compact and I love iOS/iPadOS.

[hishnash]

Just now, Warin said:

 Sure, I can't play Kerbal Space Program on the iPad, but it is just way more compact and I love iOS/iPadOS.

I would love it if they did release it for iPad, the hardware is more than good enough.

[Sorenson]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

No info, but most likely the 12W (or 15W) version as the CPU is on the screen. The previous model was 15W. I don't think the super small and thin cooling solution is enough to properly cool the chip.  In the end, the performance will be very similar to the 25W version in Benchmarks. It just won't boost as much and just have a more aggressive power saving profile. 

That’s what I was thinking. I tried out the 15” Surface Book 2 and the CPU bottleneck made games like FFXV look like a slideshow. Hopefully, it will be a nice improvement with 10nm. I just want to be able to play my games while traveling for work .

[Dabombinable]

Nice to see the Surface go getting some proper specs. At launch it was competing with (and losing to) tablets from 2 years prior, which were still in production and cheaper.

[KaitouX]

4 hours ago, rawrdaysgoby said:

UGH I wished the book 3 had at least up to 6 cores and a 2060 max-q.... Maybe even a faster screen... Like newer products these days...

 

But the base price of the 15 inch is 2300$?!?! I will wait for a price drop + bundle deal....

I don't think Intel got 6+ cores on any Ice Lake CPUs, but a 6/8 cores Ryzen 4000U option would indeed be nice.

[PocketNerd]

inb4 Apple does something to lock-out the Surface dock so you can't use it on their devices.

[rawrdaysgoby]

2 hours ago, Sorenson said:

That’s what I was thinking. I tried out the 15” Surface Book 2 and the CPU bottleneck made games like FFXV look like a slideshow. Hopefully, it will be a nice improvement with 10nm. I just want to be able to play my games while traveling for work .

lol was that really the problem or was it that it was using a 1060 max-q running a AAA title game on a 3000x2000 screen 

[Sorenson]

14 minutes ago, rawrdaysgoby said:

lol was that really the problem or was it that it was using a 1060 max-q running a AAA title game on a 3000x2000 screen 

I was running it at 1080p on the 1060 (it actually wasn't max q) with MSI afterburner showing around 100% CPU utilization.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, Johners said:

Some what unrelated but any news on when to expect Windows 10 May 2020 update to actually be released, I assume next week on Patch Tuesday?

The current situation made Microsoft delay the update (which was supposed to be April). Probably will be released in end of May, if it would be my guess. If you can't wait, you can join the Insider Preview program Release Preview ring. But of course, Microsoft is still working on it, and so you may face issues. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

21 minutes ago, rawrdaysgoby said:

lol was that really the problem or was it that it was using a 1060 max-q running a AAA title game on a 3000x2000 screen 

 

4 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

I was running it at 1080p on the 1060 (it actually wasn't max q) with MSI afterburner showing around 100% CPU utilization.

I don't know about FF, but I haven't had a terrible experience running at half native res with Monster Hunter World. On max perf plugged in, it seemed to hold around 3.7 GHz all core (and IIRC 40-60% usage). Ofc ymmv.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Nice to see the Surface go getting some proper specs. At launch it was competing with (and losing to) tablets from 2 years prior, which were still in production and cheaper.

Well, the current Pentium Gold option is marginally faster than the older version ('cause Intel). You really need to cash a lot more for the Core M3.

I really wish AMD would bring competition in mobile space, as Intel is overcharging their chips... even their budget ones, in my opinion (Pentium Gold should not even be an option, and the Core m3 should the Pentium Gold price, at the very least).

 

[hishnash]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I really wish AMD would bring competition in mobile space

I think AMD are well aware in the low power space there is now way the can compete with to many of the ARM chips out there.

The effort they would put in would have such a limited market and would still massively underperform.

[Sorenson]

10 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

 

I don't know about FF, but I haven't had a terrible experience running at half native res with Monster Hunter World. On max perf plugged in, it seemed to hold around 3.7 GHz all core (and IIRC 40-60% usage). Ofc ymmv.

It might have just been FFXV is a horribly optimized game. The deal breaker for me on the SB2, was when I was typing notes and hit enter, some of the text would show up on the line bellow. 

 

The text was suppose to look like this.

 

But, it would end up looking like thi

s. 

[Curufinwe_wins]

37 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

It might have just been FFXV is a horribly optimized game. The deal breaker for me on the SB2, was when I was typing notes and hit enter, some of the text would show up on the line bellow. 

 

The text was suppose to look like this.

 

But, it would end up looking like thi

s. 

Huh that's odd. I've never seen that happen either. Maybe that model was defective lol. 

 

(Not saying that your experience is invalid or anything, but I have had an SB2 for almost 3 years now and it has been my favorite laptop ever hahaha. Actually ended up recommending it in the last few months to a friend who uses it for work. Don't get me wrong, totally not cost-efficient, but damn nice to use, and certainly at the time, it was the only 2 in 1 that even remotely could think about gaming.)

[Sorenson]

46 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Huh that's odd. I've never seen that happen either. Maybe that model was defective lol. 

 

(Not saying that your experience is invalid or anything, but I have had an SB2 for almost 3 years now and it has been my favorite laptop ever hahaha. Actually ended up recommending it in the last few months to a friend who uses it for work. Don't get me wrong, totally not cost-efficient, but damn nice to use, and certainly at the time, it was the only 2 in 1 that even remotely could think about gaming.)

That's really good to hear. I'm planning on upgrading my 2014 MacBook Pro in September. I'll have to give this a look when it comes out