Surface Day! - Surface Go 2, New docks, Surface Book 3, Headphones, Earphones

[hishnash]

16 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

iPad, even the cheapest model, is real time computing...you do stuff —> stuff reacts...can’t be compared to Windows on those low power CPUs and bottom of the barrel eMMC storage (forgot to mention, iPads have an apple-made SSD controller and fast flash)..

yer the iPas will always outdo the surface Go. 

The perf is the most staggering difference. You can use photoshop/lightroom etc on the ipad. It will open in 2 seconds and will be responsive. Moving sliders will update the images live etc. 

 

On the Go it will take 20 to 30 seconds just to open these applications and even simple things like zooming and panning will run at 10fps.

If your getting a Go you should get a iPad. You might say "i get a go to run this windows software ..." but unless that software was written for the GO (aka in the windows S store) it will be supper slow and un-useable.

 

If you compare the windows S store to the Apples App store, the iPad has all of those aps and many more and they all run much much better.

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

That Surface go looks like it would be IMHO the perfect computer for a kid to use for school work.  With the stylus they can draw and write.  Pencil and paper math homework could be a thing IF that feature was standard to most computers. 

I wouldn’t recommend the Surface Go 2 at any configuration at all. In order to get decent performance with the core m3, one needs to shell out $630 + $100 for the keyboard attachment thus making the total $730. And that doesn’t include the Surface Pen for $100, which makes the total $830. For the exact price or even cheaper, one can get a regular clamshell laptop from the likes of Dell, Lenovo, Acer or HP with a decent U series core i3 or i5. 
 

If someone needs a pen input for drawing, note taking or math homework. The 128 GB iPad is just $430 + $100 Apple Pencil + $40 3rd party Bluetooth keyboard + $40 kickstand case = $610. Plus with the iPad you get an App Store with thousands of iPad optimized apps and it’s less likely to be infected by malware due to it being locked down to a single App Store. All applications in the App Store are required to be sandboxed, you don’t have that guarantee if you install program outside of the Microsoft Store. 

[suicidalfranco]

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It's not meant for this. And keep in mind that the app presented on the iPad lacks A LOT of functionality from the Windows version. Not to the mention that iOS version of the app, clearly is using the GPU for its interface and application tasks, while the Windows version is full on CPU rendered. So it is normal that the experience is lack luster. When Adobe will make a full on UWP version of the app, then we can compare.

doesn't change the fact that the Go is a overall worst product than the Apple's cheapest iPad.

And when it becomes close enough to it you can just step up to the iPad Pro and again end up with a far better product.

Advising anyone to pick up a Go over an iPad would just be dishonest and do a disservice to the poor soul who'd end up with what is basically comparable to a 100$ chinese laptop who's only merit is having Windows installed, and just like that laptop from the moment you first boot it will feel slow, sluggish, laggy, and only offer a frustrating experience at best.

 

MS should have either can the Go line or learned from the first one and actually make it better or at least capable of competing with the cheap iPad that uses a now 3 year old SoC, instead they simply delivered the basically same device as two years ago with smaller bezels.

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You forgot also note taking and meetings. But yea, that it's purpose, really

>looks at the pen input lag between the two

and the front facing cam on the iPad isn't that far behind to the Go

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It's not much, true, but looking how UWP native apps runs super smoothly on the Pentium Gold, it is plenty for basic color filters and various basic filters and effects, and smooth interface.

 

If you can define that Lr demostration smooth, you're just being dishonest

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

their latest attempts are Windows 10X 

a waste of time and money

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows 10 for ARM...

another waste of time

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

but until you have people supporting these platforms to get things going, we are stuck with Intel, and we will never move from there

if they can work with AMD to develop a console with HW that isn't even available to the general consumer and meet whatever performance MS want it to reach, they could very well worked with AMD on this. At least AMD seems flexible enough to cook some custom silicone to meet whatever demand their partners expect

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I support ARM based machines. I want it to take off the ground. I want that when you go to a store, you have Intel, AMD and ARM to pick from

And all it would take is for MS to stop trying to split Windows into 2 separate entities and just make it so that normal Windows runs on ARM without limitations or restrictions and just treat it as that: Windows. nothing more, nothing less. Same experience weather you are on ARM or x86

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

But seeing that there is no competitor by OEM of the Surface Go (1 or 2), to me suggests that they probably evaluated and saw that they can't really do better.

Or that it simply is not worth their time and that instead they should focus on the bigger competitor being the iPad

 

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

So sadly, if you want Windows, the price is high. But one cannot pretend that iOS is identical to Windows.

True that, but comes a point where a product is so bad you might as well pick up the stretched up iPhone and manage to do every thing the Go can but better with the only sacrifice being not having access to some programs that will most likely run like crap unless they are light and small like Notepad++ etc.

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, suicidalfranco said:

doesn't change the fact that the Go is a overall worst product than the Apple's cheapest iPad.

And when it becomes close enough to it you can just step up to the iPad Pro and again end up with a far better product.

Advising anyone to pick up a Go over an iPad would just be dishonest and do a disservice to the poor soul who'd end up with what is basically comparable to a 100$ chinese laptop who's only merit is having Windows installed, and just like that laptop from the moment you first boot it will feel slow, sluggish, laggy, and only offer a frustrating experience at best.

 

MS should have either can the Go line or learned from the first one and actually make it better or at least capable of competing with the cheap iPad that uses a now 3 year old SoC, instead they simply delivered the basically same device as two years ago with smaller bezels.

>looks at the pen input lag between the two

and the front facing cam on the iPad isn't that far behind to the Go

If you can define that Lr demostration smooth, you're just being dishonest

 

a waste of time and money

another waste of time

 

if they can work with AMD to develop a console with HW that isn't even available to the general consumer and meet whatever performance MS want it to reach, they could very well worked with AMD on this. At least AMD seems flexible enough to cook some custom silicone to meet whatever demand their partners expect

 

And all it would take is for MS to stop trying to split Windows into 2 separate entities and just make it so that normal Windows runs on ARM without limitations or restrictions and just treat it as that: Windows. nothing more, nothing less. Same experience weather you are on ARM or x86

 

Or that it simply is not worth their time and that instead they should focus on the bigger competitor being the iPad

 

True that, but comes a point where a product is so bad you might as well pick up the stretched up iPhone and manage to do every thing the Go can but better with the only sacrifice being not having access to some programs that will most likely run like crap unless they are light and small like Notepad++ etc.

There are more Windows tablets than MS's surface lineup. A lot with CPU that are superior to the Pentium (which have taken the Atom's position), and some of which are found in decent laptops.

[suicidalfranco]

13 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

There are more Windows tablets than MS's surface lineup. A lot with CPU that are superior to the Pentium (which have taken the Atom's position), and some of which are found in decent laptops.

Not saying there aren't. 

[GoodBytes]

10 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

If someone needs a pen input for drawing, note taking or math homework. The 128 GB iPad is just $430 + $100 Apple Pencil + $40 3rd party Bluetooth keyboard + $40 kickstand case = $610. Plus with the iPad you get an App Store with thousands of iPad optimized apps and it’s less likely to be infected by malware due to it being locked down to a single App Store. All applications in the App Store are required to be sandboxed, you don’t have that guarantee if you install program outside of the Microsoft Store. 

The iPad pen sucks for note taking. You have no erase head or button. You have to write extra big to write properly. The pen tip is super thick in comparison to the Surface pen or any other digitizer pen, really.

 

You say security... and yet, you have anti-virus software on iOS, Apple just recently let pass and had to remove 18 apps: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-app-store-malware-click-fraud/. How about apps/games that use to trick users to tap or press and hold at the area of the screen where you have the in-screen finger print sensor and does a super expensive purchases? Clearly Apple didn't even test or look at these apps. And how about this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/14/zerodium_ios_flaws/ To me, it sounds worse than Windows. Not to mention that on an iPhone or iPad, if you want to re-install an app, such as uninstall it and re-install it, it will wipe all its data files, loosing your projects, unless they are standard images or audio files. And that the device requires iTunes for maintenance, meaning you need to have access to a computer, it cannot be your computer.

 

Quote

doesn't change the fact that the Go is a overall worst product than the Apple's cheapest iPad.

And when it becomes close enough to it you can just step up to the iPad Pro and again end up with a far better product.

Advising anyone to pick up a Go over an iPad would just be dishonest and do a disservice to the poor soul who'd end up with what is basically comparable to a 100$ chinese laptop who's only merit is having Windows installed, and just like that laptop from the moment you first boot it will feel slow, sluggish, laggy, and only offer a frustrating experience at best.

 

MS should have either can the Go line or learned from the first one and actually make it better or at least capable of competing with the cheap iPad that uses a now 3 year old SoC, instead they simply delivered the basically same device as two years ago with smaller bezels.

>looks at the pen input lag between the two

and the front facing cam on the iPad isn't that far behind to the Go

If you can define that Lr demostration smooth, you're just being dishonest

I am sorry, but it is dishonest to claim that it runs Lr or Photoshop when you are only running a light weight version of these application on iPad. Doesn't mean the app has the same name, that it is the same. People will expect the same functionality, only to get a device that lacks many of the tools they need, requiring a computer to complete their work. The Go isn't for drawing. It isn't for video editing, nor a gaming machine. You want Windows? you want these abilities? then sadly you'll need to spend more. Windows and many of its software were designed for powerful system in mind. They offers a lot of power and functionality. The Go a great device for what it is meant to do. But if you insist, then you'll have to use apps that runs properly on teh device, and yes they are more limited, but runs smoothly, including zooming such as: Sketchable, Concept, Bamboo Paper, Graphiter and any UWP  based drawing apps.

 

If I was a student, on a limited budget, I would get the Go base model. I have enough power to do my programming assignments of university (I know this as a fact as my systems at the time when I did my degree was not as powerful, and didn't have any issue), I have the pen to write my notes, which works great. I had the Surface Pro 2 and 3 later on back then, which are the devices without many of the improvements of today Surface device.

 

Funny thing, is Adobe Lightroom on Windows video trailer, the sliders are pretty choppy there as well. LOL! So.. yea, the popular app, is non-responsive, there as well. I am not saying that it is as bad as the Go based on presented video (then again, he had trouble with surfing the web, which his experience didn't experience with other reviews of the Go1 which has essentially the same CPU, and even Go 2 reviews don't have this level of trouble), but when you have a trouble on desktop PC, which I assume they used for the recording of this trailer, especially a high-end one, as you tend to always put the product one is promoting under best light.... ouch.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/adobe-lightroom/9pnlg4zg0xgj?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

 

 

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You have no erase head or button.

It's true for the 1st gen Apple Pencil which is compatible only for the 10.2" iPad and 10.5" iPad Air. But then, most note taking or drawing apps have an eraser button. Is it a compromise, sure but I don't think it's a big one. The 2nd gen Apple Pencil does compete with the Surface Pen on this one with it's touch inputs for changing tools.

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The iPad pen sucks for note taking...  You have to write extra big to write properly. The pen tip is super thick in comparison to the Surface pen or any other digitizer pen, really.

(emphasis is mine)

 

Not true! I don't know where you're getting this from but I can write small with an iPad as demonstrated below by my own handwriting with OneNote for iPadOS. ⬇

 

I won't deny the fact that I have a shitty handwriting like a doctor's prescription but I think you confuse penmanship with pen tip size and input lag. I doubt that there will be a difference in penmanship if one writes with an Apple Pencil or a Surface Pen. But since you like to point out that the note taking experience with Surface is better than the iPad, I'd like to remind you that the Microsoft Store's app selection is nowhere near what the App Store offers.

Not to mention that an iPad will probably outlast the Surface Go when it comes to battery life thanks to a power efficient ARM chip compared to a full fat x86 chip.

 

[Arika]

46 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

But since you like to point out that the note taking experience with Surface is better than the iPad, I'd like to remind you that the Microsoft Store's app selection is nowhere near what the App Store offers.

If we're talking about note taking, then how many apps exist on each platform doesn't really matter. Only need to install 1 and 99% of people that want an app for note taking will download something from the top 5 or just use something that came with each respective device. they're not exactly complicated programs. 

 

 

[saltycaramel]

When it’s all said and done, the devil is in the details and in people willing to see those details..that’s why there will be people convinced a Windows 10” tablet is good enough and people understanding why an ipad (with 10 years worth of actually optimized tablet apps and the best fanless CPU in that format) is heaps better...funny thing is that this time around there’s not even a price premium to pay, both options cost 600$...

 

The final blow was mouse support introduction in iPadOS a couple of weeks ago...before that, one could argue Windows had mouse/trackpad so it was not apples to apples..

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Not to mention that on an iPhone or iPad, if you want to re-install an app, such as uninstall it and re-install it, it will wipe all its data files, loosing your projects, unless they are standard images or audio files. And that the device requires iTunes for maintenance, meaning you need to have access to a computer, it cannot be your computer.

Ever heard of an iCloud backup? It even backs up locally stored files including my downloads folder and data of 3rd party apps.


 

Also, uninstalling and reinstalling an app doesn’t require me to wipe my device. Where did you even get that idea? 

 

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You say security... and yet, you have anti-virus software on iOS, Apple just recently let pass and had to remove 18 apps: https://www.wired.com/story/apple-app-store-malware-click-fraud/. How about apps/games that use to trick users to tap or press and hold at the area of the screen where you have the in-screen finger print sensor and does a super expensive purchases? Clearly Apple didn't even test or look at these apps. And how about this: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/05/14/zerodium_ios_flaws/ To me, it sounds worse than Windows.

I’m not going to pretend that iOS is the epitome of operating system security which it isn’t and every vetting system has its flaws. But it won’t change the fact that iOS’ restricted environment where every app has to be sandboxed and be tested by Apple offers more app security than Windows. With Windows, one can be tricked by a spear-phishing site to download a malware pretending to be a software update because the OS allows installation of applications from the web. An app developer doesn’t have to submit their application to Microsoft’s vetting process. But then the Surface Go 2 runs Windows 10 Home in S Mode so it might actually be on par or be better than iPadOS restriction to a single App Store.
 

I’m not saying that it’s not possible with iOS but if we’re talking about numbers, Windows alone greatly surpasses the number of threats than iOS. Even though Windows supports ASLR, developers are not required to compile their code with ASLR support. With iOS, not only the applications are sandboxed but also compiled for ASLR. If you’re going to mention Windows Defender, well it’s a competitive antivirus if you enabled the hidden settings in the Group Policy but not so much with default settings. I mean, I just made a thread on how to do just that and those advanced settings are only available for Windows 10 Pro. As far as I’m concerned, the Surface Go runs Windows 10 Home in S Mode so no attack surface reduction rules and extended cloud check. 

If you read independent reports, default settings Windows Defender will occasionally lags behind third party antivirus programs even though it’s very close as if it’s just splitting hairs. [here] But let’s not forget the fact that just like any application that can touch the kernel, they’re exploitable and Windows Defender is no exemption. [here]
 

Also, where did you get the idea that iOS runs an antivirus when Apple is actively banning applications submitted to the App Store. What is allowed by Apple are URL blockers like this one from Bitdefender. It doesn’t scan the contents of an iPhone or iPad but it blocks malicious URLs.

Edited May 16, 2020 by captain_to_fire

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

but it is dishonest to claim that it runs Lr or Photoshop when you are only running a light weight version of these application on iPad.

who is being dishonest here?

Lightroom is the same across the board and the one being served on the MS Store is Lightroom CC and not Lightroom Classic CC i.e. the more feature rich, powerful one.

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The Go isn't for drawing. It isn't for video editing, nor a gaming machine. You want Windows? you want these abilities? then sadly you'll need to spend more. Windows and many of its software were designed for powerful system in mind.

So we can agree that the Go in it's current form shouldn't exist, offers nothing compared to the competition, and behaves worst compared to competing products

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

But if you insist, then you'll have to use apps that runs properly on teh device, and yes they are more limited, but runs smoothly, including zooming such as: Sketchable, Concept, Bamboo Paper, Graphiter and any UWP  based drawing apps.

And the alternative or even just the same app on the iPad will do it better

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

If I was a student, on a limited budget, I would get the Go base model. I have enough power to do my programming assignments of university (I know this as a fact as my systems at the time when I did my degree was not as powerful, and didn't have any issue), I have the pen to write my notes, which works great.

the iPad can fill all those use cases, yes even programming. And it will do it without feeling sluggish or slow. If i was a student today i'd go with an iPad because it has become viable enough to stand above every windows based tablet in the same price bracket.

 

 

[Uttamattamakin]

14 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I wouldn’t recommend the Surface Go 2 at any configuration at all. In order to get decent performance with the core m3, one needs to shell out $630 + $100 for the keyboard attachment thus making the total $730. And that doesn’t include the Surface Pen for $100, which makes the total $830. For the exact price or even cheaper, one can get a regular clamshell laptop from the likes of Dell, Lenovo, Acer or HP with a decent U series core i3 or i5. 
 

If someone needs a pen input for drawing, note taking or math homework. The 128 GB iPad is just $430 + $100 Apple Pencil + $40 3rd party Bluetooth keyboard + $40 kickstand case = $610. Plus with the iPad you get an App Store with thousands of iPad optimized apps and it’s less likely to be infected by malware due to it being locked down to a single App Store. All applications in the App Store are required to be sandboxed, you don’t have that guarantee if you install program outside of the Microsoft Store. 

A regular clamshell laptop does not give one the ability to draw. 

 

While an ipad pro IS AN IPAD.  A lot of educational online systems require Flash  (I know I know but its not going to be upgraded)

 

Students and teachers need something that is a real full blown PC with full fat google chrome with flash  and the ability to install whatever software is needed.  

 

To that end maybe a good 2 in 1 can do.  However Microsoft will give a STEEP discount to students and teachers. 

[Uttamattamakin]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

If we're talking about note taking, then how many apps exist on each platform doesn't really matter. Only need to install 1 and 99% of people that want an app for note taking will download something from the top 5 or just use something that came with each respective device. they're not exactly complicated programs. 

 

 

That #1 APP is going to be One Note.  
This semester I created a One Note Class Notebook and used it.   If your at a school that uses microsoft services and software which is almost all of them just go for a good windows 2 in 1.  Surface GO 2 is good enough.  We are not talking about a device to game on or anything.  A pure homework computer, that is also good for some content consumption (may minecraft level games).    

 

Something that can do all that the iPad pro can AND also run full blown MS office with all the trimmings.  Most crucially "One Note".

 

https://support.office.com/en-us/article/video-class-notebook-for-onenote-for-windows-10-8e9fcec7-17e7-4fb8-9e2d-4757b8a5abe6

 

Don't get me wrong I'd love it if there was a free, open source, cross platform altnerative that had all the features and compliance with standards and privacy laws that MS One Note has.  By privacy laws I mean something called FERPA.  It safeguards the contents of educational records, grade markings in particular,.  Telemetry about usage patterns is irrelevant for teaching purposes. 

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The iPad pen sucks for note taking. You have no erase head or button. You have to write extra big to write properly. The pen tip is super thick in comparison to the Surface pen or any other digitizer pen, really.

 

is the surface supposed to be impresive? sure seems like no

 

[GoodBytes]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

So we can agree that the Go in it's current form shouldn't exist, offers nothing compared to the competition, and behaves worst compared to competing products

Of course it should exists. I already explained. Re-read.

 

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

 

And the alternative or even just the same app on the iPad will do it better

 

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

the iPad can fill all those use cases, yes even programming.

enlighten me

 

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

And it will do it without feeling sluggish or slow. If i was a student today i'd go with an iPad because it has become viable enough to stand above every windows based tablet in the same price bracket.

It runs great. You are the one that is pushing it above of what the device can do.

iPads, doesn't run many educational programs. While iPads are used by some schools, they are in limited fashion, and janky integrated at best due to proper educational apps that can be integrated in the curriculum and reach a modern implementation of classes. I am not saying that Surface or Windows powered device reach there, but closer, heck, ChromeOS is closer as well. And considering that most school which iPads for students runs fancy Apple computers everywhere, despite not actually having the money (private schools included), you can see who signed Apple exclusivity deal for free systems, and who aren't. So, doesn't mean it is being used, that is being used well. 

 

When I was at university, students with iPads, from what I have seen, are only using it as PDF viewer, and tend to have laptop + iPad. VERY little amount (less than a handful) used iPads exclusively, based on my observations. Lots of MacBook's thaugh.

 

[Arika]

32 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

So we can agree that the Go in it's current form shouldn't exist, offers nothing compared to the competition, and behaves worst compared to competing products

but it's still competition, this is something that i really don't like about the tech community these days; the belief that because something exists in a better form than a new product, that the new product just shouldn't exist, because x is already better is the exact opposite of what you should want. competition is what makes things improve. Clearly the original Surface Go sold well enough for them to make a second one so there is still a market for it despite the iPad existing

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

is the surface supposed to be impresive? sure seems like no

I tried to install Chromium on the iPad... got some error message about not being able to run the setup file.

Is that supposed to be impressive? I tried Steam desktop client as well... didn't work. 

I tried to use as a system to professional record music on my private recording studio. Record quality was shit, and the didn't have enough capacity to store a single recording. Only has 64GB of storage, can't plug my professional sound equipement.

 

Sounds silly... but that is basically what you are saying to me. Those videos you showed, as they explain, they are saying to artist essentially "hey, don't get this, it's isn't a low cost portable Wacom drawing device, it's not for us. Great device, but not for us. Look at the Surface Pro, at the very least, if you want Windows". That is what they are saying. They are not saying, get an iPad. And the first video explains a lot of points that I raised. And it is true. To me, it is like if Brandon or Taran made a video and explains how the iPad Pro is sadly not suitable to video production. Well it isn't, so is the Surface Go.. or any Surface.

 

All this discussion, sounds to me, the same ones as Game Console and a comparatively priced PC.

 

[suicidalfranco]

5 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Of course it should exists. I already explained. Re-read.

the go doesn't fit the "powerful system" moniker to run windows

And no, none of the things it claims to do are done good.

 

7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

enlighten me

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

It runs great. You are the one that is pushing it above of what the device can do.

 

from all the reviews im seing while following this thread, no. No it doesn't

14 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

When I was at university

and how many years is that supposed to be, cause sure as hell when i went there in 2012 i wouldn't have advice an iPad to anyone due to the artificial limitations set by Apple. But, i'll repeat myself again, as of today, in the year 2019-2020, If i was a student today i'd go with an iPad because it has become viable enough to stand above every windows based tablet in the same price bracket.

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

the go doesn't fit the "powerful system" moniker to run windows

And no, none of the things it claims to do are done good.

Yes.. I'll make the greatest software and games with Python with an IDE that looks Notepad... wow... /s

As for SSH remote coding... well, you can do that on Windows, heck you can run Linux programs under Windows, and you don't need internet connection.

But if you want to remote, OpenSSH is part of Windows Client and Server, and you have remote desktop built-in so you can connect to any PC GUI or not, with ease, without needing to purchase any software.

 

 

Quote

from all the reviews im seing while following this thread, no. No it doesn't

I posted 2, and they are great. Sorry to disappoint that you can't get a Surface Go at equipped with a RTX 3080 Ti Super SLI, 16-core CPU 7GHz all cores, full week battery life under load, at your local dollar store. I'll be sure to pass the message at Microsoft. I am sure they'll place what you expect at the at most highest priority.

 

Quote

and how many years is that supposed to be, cause sure as hell when i went there in 2012 i wouldn't have advice an iPad to anyone due to the artificial limitations set by Apple. But, i'll repeat myself again, as of today, in the year 2019-2020, If i was a student today i'd go with an iPad because it has become viable enough to stand above every windows based tablet in the same price bracket.

Ok, that is you. For me, and many others, despite some facts that I stand corrected on that was mentioned, the iPad is still unacceptable device to meet my needs, and I don't see it as being viable solution for many students. You say that the game console is the best way to go, I say a PC is the best way to go despite the lower performance per dollar compared to a console. Simple. 2 different school of thoughts.

[saltycaramel]

In these pages I read

- “Flash” (who?) being mentioned in 2020

- that iOS/iPadOS devices are managed via itunes (which doesn’t even exist anymore on macOS) in 2020

- that ipad pencils suck for note taking

 

thanks guys

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, Arika S said:

but it's still competition, this is something that i really don't like about the tech community these days; the belief that because something exists in a better form than a new product, that the new product just shouldn't exist, because x is already better is the exact opposite of what you should want. competition is what makes things improve. Clearly the original Surface Go sold well enough for them to make a second one so there is still a market for it despite the iPad existing

Sure, my issue here with the Go2 is that after 2 years since the release of the OG Go, they've basically changed nothing.

Still that awful CPU, still 4GB of RAM, still that insulting eMMC storage, still 32GB.

If they had put the core M3 version as the base option, then at least you could call an actual upgrade to the what was released a couple of years ago. But no. Just smaller bazels, and more battery and underclocking the CPU . Either deliver an actual upgrade or just don't bother.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Yes.. I'll make the greatest software and games with Python with an IDE that looks Notepad... wow... /s

As for SSH remote coding... well, you can do that on Windows, heck you can run Linux programs under Windows, and you don't need internet connection.

But if you want to remote, OpenSSH is part of Windows Client and Server, and you have remote desktop built-in so you can connect to any PC GUI or not, with ease, without needing to purchase any software.

You can develop in python, you can develop in Java (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Sorry to disappoint that you can't get a Surface Go at equipped with a RTX 3080 Ti Super SLI, 16-core CPU 7GHz all cores, full week battery life under load, at your local dollar store. I'll be sure to pass the message at Microsoft. I am sure they'll place what you expect at the at most highest priority.

not even what i'm asking, else i wouldn't compare it to the iPad. But keep acting so obtuse, it's making my day.

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

You say that the game console is the best way to go, I say a PC is the best way to go despite the lower performance per dollar compared to a console. Simple. 2 different school of thoughts.

More like me saying Core 2 Duo is the best way to go and you saying Athlon64 x2 is the best way

 

 

[suicidalfranco]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I tried to install Chromium on the iPad... got some error message about not being able to run the setup file.

Is that supposed to be impressive? I tried Steam desktop client as well... didn't work. 

I tried to use as a system to professional record music on my private recording studio. Record quality was shit, and the didn't have enough capacity to store a single recording. Only has 64GB of storage, can't plug my professional sound equipement.

i take all the blame on this one, cause what i meant to write there was about the surface pen, not the surface as whole.

 

[captain_to_fire]

7 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

A lot of educational online systems require Flash  (I know I know but its not going to be upgraded)

 

Students and teachers need something that is a real full blown PC with full fat google chrome with flash

These people are asking for trouble. There’s a reason why even Adobe ceased Flash support on Android and iOS didn’t bothered supporting Flash at all. Even Google Chrome has Flash disabled by default since 2017. 

[Uttamattamakin]

4 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

These people are asking for trouble. There’s a reason why even Adobe ceased Flash support on Android and iOS didn’t bothered supporting Flash at all. Even Google Chrome has Flash disabled by default since 2017. 

I know I know... but it is really REALLY hard to write something which complies with all the educational standards in HTML5.  

It requires a complete re write of the textbook, to go with the online system. 

 

11 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

When I was at university, students with iPads, from what I have seen, are only using it as PDF viewer, and tend to have laptop + iPad. VERY little amount (less than a handful) used iPads exclusively, based on my observations. Lots of MacBook's thaugh.

 

This is a very important point.  

On one hand I'd say anyone loaded enough and determined enough to show off the status symbol of having all apple stuff and ipad pro PLUS a macbook can work.   However, if anyone ever has to reccomend ONE thing for a high school or college student it has to be a "Swiss Army Knife" of a computer. 

Maybe it isn't the best corkscrew, hacksaw, steaknife, scissors, nail file and fork ... but it is all of those things.   i pad pro is at best only 3/5 of those things.  

 

On the other hand IF apple would just bite the bullet and make a 2 in one Mac.  Imagine a 2 in 1 Mac Book air.  I would have to seriously consider getting it.