Xbox Series X

[Derangel]

26 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

I think microsoft will do 1 TB as they do have an understanding of what people on the market want and expect, Sony on the other hand with that whole "cartridge" patent that they did I think Sony's going to try and go the route of "Smaller drives that you can swap out any time" route to save on costs but also get people to buy more proprietary hardware from them.

I wouldn't read too much into that patent. Going that route with hard drives could be a very Sony thing to do, or it could just be something they prototyped that will never see the light of day.

[ravenshrike]

39 minutes ago, Derangel said:

I wouldn't read too much into that patent. Going that route with hard drives could be a very Sony thing to do, or it could just be something they prototyped that will never see the light of day.

It would be really cool if it was a hotswappable ssd holder that you could slot any 2.5in ssd into for expanded storage.

[Mihle]

5 hours ago, JZStudios said:

 

 

I never said everything on Epic was DRM free, for one. I just said it was a reliable source of DRM free. Most of the games I've gotten from there I can launch DRM free straight from the .exe.

There's a few games on Steam that are DRM free, but the vast majority aren't. And just because Steam has their own basic DRM so the devs implement it doesn't change the fact that it's DRM. Or that most games are only available from a single location.

So nothing I said was wrong.

 

One of my points is that you can not blame steam for it, you have to blame the game developers.

[JZStudios]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

To be fair there aren’t all that many such people.  Blu-ray is kind of a mess.

Except it's still the standard physical media format, that I'm pretty sure Sony developed, or had a large part in, and the game discs are Blu-Ray.

 

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

REMUX or don't bother . Took me ages to make fully working copies of my blu-rays in Plex, tons of storage used doing it lol.

Yeah, my brother ripped one and compressed it down to YT standards... which is a bit low, but it's still like 16gb. I'd just rather have the disc and put it in.

[Brooksie359]

On 12/13/2019 at 10:25 PM, Derangel said:

Yes but that’s not exactly relevant. RDR2 still looks very good on the consoles and it running at true 4K on the X is quite the achievement. Same with games like Forza Horizon 4. Even getting them to true 4K on the relatively weak hardware of the X goes to show that games on the XSX (and PS5) will be doing true 4K. Not all of them and I imagine there will still be a lot of 30fps, but they will still manage it. Which was the entire point I was making by bringing up RDR 2 in my reply.

But it is 100% relevant. The main point is that the 4k figure is kinda marketing bs because 4k on console isn't comparable to 4k on pc. 

[Derangel]

59 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

But it is 100% relevant. The main point is that the 4k figure is kinda marketing bs because 4k on console isn't comparable to 4k on pc. 

No, that is what we call "moving goal posts".

[melete]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

But it is 100% relevant. The main point is that the 4k figure is kinda marketing bs because 4k on console isn't comparable to 4k on pc. 

If it's true 4K it's true 4K. Hell, it's probably better image quality on many TVs because there are plenty of popular consumer models with quality HDR while comparable monitors are pretty uncommon. My TV was under $800 for a 65" model with full array local dimming and 1000+ cd/m2 peak brightness. I don't think there even are monitors with that feature set at anywhere near a similar price.

[TechyBen]

10 hours ago, Derangel said:

QLC based NvME drives are under $100 these days and would be perfectly fine for consoles. Last week WD had their Black series 1TB NvME drive on sale for just over $100. With those prices, there's really no reason for MS to use anything less than 1TB.

To be far, every company goes for dirt cheap. If they cannot get it for under $20 (business/bulk prices, so not consumer), it will be a 500gb version.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, TechyBen said:

To be far, every company goes for dirt cheap. If they cannot get it for under $20 (business/bulk prices, so not consumer), it will be a 500gb version.

It could be done as a motherboard soldered par too and not even a traditional m.2.  The companies have large enough volumes they can do things like that.  I suspect size or layout or speed or setup are not going to be very predictable.  We shall see what we shall see.

[Derangel]

6 hours ago, TechyBen said:

To be far, every company goes for dirt cheap. If they cannot get it for under $20 (business/bulk prices, so not consumer), it will be a 500gb version.

Remember, we're talking tens of millions of units being ordered across the next 4-5+ years. They're going to get huge discounts on everything.

[JZStudios]

11 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

But it is 100% relevant. The main point is that the 4k figure is kinda marketing bs because 4k on console isn't comparable to 4k on pc. 

No, it's literally irrelevant. The console shows true 4k. Just because unsurprisingly the PC might do it slightly better doesn't make it false. Does it also not do 1080 because the PC version can have higher textures and framerate?

That's a stupid argument that has no basis in what actually qualifies for what's being advertised. And if you watched the video I linked, the Xbox 4k is pretty much identical to the PC 4k, minus framerate. The draw distance is the same, the textures are the same, the model quality is the same... PC has a higher framerate, maybe better shadows, and anisotropic filtering which I don't understand why consoles still don't have.

[Brooksie359]

5 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

No, it's literally irrelevant. The console shows true 4k. Just because unsurprisingly the PC might do it slightly better doesn't make it false. Does it also not do 1080 because the PC version can have higher textures and framerate?

That's a stupid argument that has no basis in what actually qualifies for what's being advertised. And if you watched the video I linked, the Xbox 4k is pretty much identical to the PC 4k, minus framerate. The draw distance is the same, the textures are the same, the model quality is the same... PC has a higher framerate, maybe better shadows, and anisotropic filtering which I don't understand why consoles still don't have.

It 100% is relevant because it isn't slightly better but alot better. Sure you can go and say well it is still 4k which is technically true but at that point you can run anything at high resolutions and just use crap textures and quality settings and still slap that 4k marketing on there just because technically it is still 4k. To say that the quality of the visuals is irrelevant is just not true. 

[TechyBen]

42 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

It 100% is relevant because it isn't slightly better but alot better. Sure you can go and say well it is still 4k which is technically true but at that point you can run anything at high resolutions and just use crap textures and quality settings and still slap that 4k marketing on there just because technically it is still 4k. To say that the quality of the visuals is irrelevant is just not true. 

Not really. Apples to oranges. A black and white feel can advertise as "4k" but not "true colour". This is "4K" just not "high fidelity/graphics quality" when compared to a PC... which they did not do. Even a retro game could have a "true 4k" mode, where they use mastered 4k resolution pixel art/GUI or cell shaded graphics (as suppose to poorly optimised changes).

[JZStudios]

1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

It 100% is relevant because it isn't slightly better but alot better. Sure you can go and say well it is still 4k which is technically true but at that point you can run anything at high resolutions and just use crap textures and quality settings and still slap that 4k marketing on there just because technically it is still 4k. To say that the quality of the visuals is irrelevant is just not true. 

Did you even read what I said? It's virtually identical.

If you had a PC running the game at 4k, and the Xbox, the old Xbox I might add, running the game at 4k side by side, assuming the PC is set to 30fps, you would not be able to tell a difference.

And your arbitrary measurement of graphical fidelity means shit all. It's so mind bogglingly dumb that I can't comprehend how dumber words could ever be uttered.

"Well, it is 4k, but I think it might not look as good as PC so therefore it isn't actually 4k and they're a bunch of dumb babies."

What in the fuck.

[Brooksie359]

4 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Did you even read what I said? It's virtually identical.

If you had a PC running the game at 4k, and the Xbox, the old Xbox I might add, running the game at 4k side by side, assuming the PC is set to 30fps, you would not be able to tell a difference.

And your arbitrary measurement of graphical fidelity means shit all. It's so mind bogglingly dumb that I can't comprehend how dumber words could ever be uttered.

"Well, it is 4k, but I think it might not look as good as PC so therefore it isn't actually 4k and they're a bunch of dumb babies."

What in the fuck.

I would 100% disagree. You can tell the difference especially on a nice 4k display. I have seen 4k on the xbox one x and it simply is not comparable to 4k PC gaming.

[Totallycasual]

2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I would 100% disagree. You can tell the difference especially on a nice 4k display. I have seen 4k on the xbox one x and it simply is not comparable to 4k PC gaming.

I watch a lot of the Digital Foundry videos where they do comparisons between PC and different consoles and honestly it's pretty hard to pick the difference between the PC and "top tier" consoles, sure if you pause and zoom into specific spots you'll see some extra jaggies or pop ins but when i'm sitting back on my sofa i really couldn't give a fuck about such minor things.  

 

I love my PC and it will always be my first choice but if there's anything to be taken away from the current console generation, it's that the best graphics don't always win the rice.  The top X-Box shits all over the PS4 Pro at a hardware level but Sony absolutely crushed it this generation because they focused on single player experiences and quality first party stuff.  I just wish people didn't have this us v them mentality when it comes to PC v console, there are so many cool games out there and it would be a shame to miss out on games like The Last of Us (and Part II), God of War, Spiderman etc etc simply because you think it's cool to hate on consoles. 

[amdorintel]

8 minutes ago, Newenthusiast said:

it would be a shame to miss out on games

not a shame at all to save money from buying games, buying consoles, buying controllers, buying monitors, keyboards, mice, graphics cards, mobos ram....

[Kisai]

On 12/15/2019 at 6:23 PM, Bombastinator said:

To be fair there aren’t all that many such people.  Blu-ray is kind of a mess.

 

People don't like optical media because their kids scratch it. No other reason is needed. The DRM for Blueray just makes it even less of a selling point because you can't save your films before the kids scratch the crap out of them.

 

I'll be honest. I'd love to just own all my blueray and dvd films on a single hard drive that I could plug into any game console, PC, Mac, SmartTV and watch it. No fumbling with crappy apps, no having to buy special TV's, CPU's, Cables that support DRM, none of that.

 

My opposition to the DRM is because it makes it unnecessarily complicated, thus people end up buying the same thing over and over again rather than just migrating their library to newer storage devices. With games this is doubly annoying, because I might buy a game on the PS5/XboxOne/Switch/PC/Stadia/iPhone, and I have to buy it 6 times if I'm to play it anywhere. Sure "Stadia" might solve this, but it's such huge PITA to setup that I can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea.

 

Microsoft should have figured this out first. They have experience with the PC and people's behavior on the PC. People hang onto software until they are forced to switch. So Microsoft could have solved this straight up by making it so that old games can be recompiled vanilla to run on new hardware and thus be played on current hardware without buying it every time the console dies or is replaced. Even if the license holder *cough*scott pilgrim game*cough* decides to withdraw it from the marketplace.

 

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

 

 

 

I'll be honest. I'd love to just own all my blueray and dvd films on a single hard drive that I could plug into any game console, PC, Mac, SmartTV and watch it. No fumbling with crappy apps, no having to buy special TV's, CPU's, Cables that support DRM, none of that.

 

My opposition to the DRM is because it makes it unnecessarily complicated, thus people end up buying the same thing over and over again rather than just migrating their library to newer storage devices. With games this is doubly annoying, because I might buy a game on the PS5/XboxOne/Switch/PC/Stadia/iPhone, and I have to buy it 6 times if I'm to play it anywhere. Sure "Stadia" might solve this, but it's such huge PITA to setup that I can't believe anyone thought it was a good idea.

 

Microsoft should have figured this out first. They have experience with the PC and people's behavior on the PC. People hang onto software until they are forced to switch. So Microsoft could have solved this straight up by making it so that old games can be recompiled vanilla to run on new hardware and thus be played on current hardware without buying it every time the console dies or is replaced. Even if the license holder *cough*scott pilgrim game*cough* decides to withdraw it from the marketplace.

 

They obviously have this tech. 

 

Reasons for why not deploying it more frequently should be obvious. 

 

- reselling of games people already own (more money) 

- for non Microsoft content,  licenses, copyrights,  etc

 

 

I totally agree BTW,  if you buy a game you should be allowed to play it on every platform it runs - ideally,  but again,  for obvious reasons that isn't the case sadly. 

[JZStudios]

3 hours ago, Newenthusiast said:

there are so many cool games out there and it would be a shame to miss out on games like The Last of Us (and Part II), God of War, Spiderman etc etc simply because you think it's cool to hate on consoles. 

Yeah, but those games all look like shit because they aren't on PC, so they're not worth playing.

[JZStudios]

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

People don't like optical media because their kids scratch it. No other reason is needed. The DRM for Blueray just makes it even less of a selling point because you can't save your films before the kids scratch the crap out of them.

You literally can. MakeMKV does Blu-Ray rips perfectly. Blu-Ray is also far more resistant to scratches than CDs and DVDs are.

 

2 hours ago, Kisai said:

I'll be honest. I'd love to just own all my blueray and dvd films on a single hard drive that I could plug into any game console, PC, Mac, SmartTV and watch it. No fumbling with crappy apps, no having to buy special TV's, CPU's, Cables that support DRM, none of that.

You literally can. Pretty much every modern TV, console, PC you can plug a hard drive into, go into the file browser, and play the video file, provided it's a common supported format. Otherwise you can set it up with Plex, which has an app for nearly everything and organizes all your movie files and downloads the metadata. It works pretty much perfectly. Kind of sucks for music though.

[Totallycasual]

38 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Yeah, but those games all look like shit because they aren't on PC, so they're not worth playing.

Are you seriously trying to say that God of War looks like shit?  Red Dead 2 (before it came to PC) looked like shit? Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy looked like shit?  

 

You need to have your eyes examined, or maybe they're covered in shit from your head being up your ass

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

You literally can. MakeMKV does Blu-Ray rips perfectly. Blu-Ray is also far more resistant to scratches than CDs and DVDs are.

 

You literally can. Pretty much every modern TV, console, PC you can plug a hard drive into, go into the file browser, and play the video file, provided it's a common supported format. Otherwise you can set it up with Plex, which has an app for nearly everything and organizes all your movie files and downloads the metadata. It works pretty much perfectly. Kind of sucks for music though.

I know how to do this all already thanks. I mean people like my mom who gets frustrated just looking for the Netflix app on the SmartTV. Never mind try to explain how to use another app.

 

I rip the BD's so I can watch them on MY PC, I take the BD discs to her house so she can watch them. It was such much harder to try and play the disc on the PC that I gave up on that.

 

4K BD's are another issue and I don't have a drive that can read them, and mom doesn't have a 4K BD player.

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, Newenthusiast said:

I watch a lot of the Digital Foundry videos where they do comparisons between PC and different consoles and honestly it's pretty hard to pick the difference between the PC and "top tier" consoles, sure if you pause and zoom into specific spots you'll see some extra jaggies or pop ins but when i'm sitting back on my sofa i really couldn't give a fuck about such minor things.  

 

I love my PC and it will always be my first choice but if there's anything to be taken away from the current console generation, it's that the best graphics don't always win the rice.  The top X-Box shits all over the PS4 Pro at a hardware level but Sony absolutely crushed it this generation because they focused on single player experiences and quality first party stuff.  I just wish people didn't have this us v them mentality when it comes to PC v console, there are so many cool games out there and it would be a shame to miss out on games like The Last of Us (and Part II), God of War, Spiderman etc etc simply because you think it's cool to hate on consoles. 

I never said consoles were trash or that they dont have their place I am merely stating that to say 4k for consoles and 4k for pc are not equivalent metrics and that the marketing of 4k is somewhat misleading when people assume they are same. 

[Viper9]

I hope that their new Game Core OS will be available for everyone. So someone who want to build their own gaming PC could install Game Core OS instead of Windows 10. 

 

That would be a good move versus Sony, you would have these options:

 

-Buy the XCloud box (cheap Chromecast like device to play only via XCloud)

-Buy the entry level Xbox Series X 

-Buy the flagship Xbox Series X

-Build your own PC and install Game Core OS and make your own custom Xbox Series X console