Electroconvulsive therapy right into your brain - Elon claims BCI can solve Autism

[Energycore]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Well he is Elon musk.  You gotta expect some weird.  This one comes possibly dangerously close to hurting people though which is kind of a line IMHO.  I’m totally willing to smile and wave when he does something thing good for the world.  He’s probably trying to.  This one may not pan out though and people could get hurt.

I think as long as test subjects are made fully aware of the risks, sign on their own will and are offered medical insurance, it's alright. Elon seems like a reasonable guy, however crazy he is.

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I think as long as test subjects are made fully aware of the risks, sign on their own will and are offered medical insurance, it's alright. Elon seems like a reasonable guy, however crazy he is.

There are much much worse eccentric billionaires in the world. I dunno if he’s even crazy.  So far he’s reasonably high on my list of “people the world needs more of”.  The number of billionaires on that list is pretty freaking short.

[kelvinhall05]

Or, ya know, just don't vaccinate them. Don't need electroconvulsive therapy if you don't have autism

 

/s

[Energycore]

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

There are much much worse eccentric billionaires in the world. I dunno if he’s even crazy.  So far he’s reasonably high on my list of “people the world needs more of”.  The number of billionaires on that list is pretty freaking short.

No i totally agree. I'd rather have 100 Elons than 100 Warren Buffets. But you have to admit he's the kind of person who goes all in on an idea and when it doesn't work out, it's just as flashy as when it does.

 

Honestly, he's a role model for anyone who wants to turn their creativity into success.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, Murasaki said:

Hundred years of innovating the process of poking something with a stick. But hey it's still innovation. #sciencerulez

true, and I have seen forms of EST work short term for some people.  but the brain keeps reverting back to its original state.

 

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't intereprt Elon as saying "I've found the cure for autism!" but rather him making general statements of potential future possibilities with Neuralink.

 

 

Because autism is a mental disability and shouldn't be seen as a personality trait anymore than let's say alcoholism, clinical depression, anorexia, PTSD, OCD, bipolar, borderline etc.

Just because an alcoholic thinks that it is "part of their personality" doesn't mean their lives (or the lives of people around them) wouldn't improve without it.

I get that it is a big part of some peoples' lives and they have come to terms with "this is how I am", but that shouldn't be the case if we discover a way of changing it. Why wouldn't you want to get rid of a disability if given the choice?

Your genetic make up is a disability, you don't fully understand.

 

 

How about you go and talk to as many people with autism as you can and listen to what they have to say about it.  Autism for largest part does not affect cognitive ability to understand things, in fact that is usually hardest part of the condition, knowing exactly what the problems are but not being able to do anything about it. 

 

 

Yes some would love to change those attributes, but others do not.  Some embrace it as apart of them and some just don't know they even have it.   You, have no right to decide for another person if they have a disability when it comes to something as complex as autism.

 

4 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

I live with autism and if getting rid of it meant that I’d have a shot in hell of not being a socially inept sack of shit, I’d take the cure. 

What people don’t understand is that some people feel like autism is a handicap for them, myself included. I wish I was a far more normal person like my two brothers, and wasn’t like myself, an incredibly awkward and offensive VHS collector who likes incredibly regular cars. Not everyone is like me, though, and that’s what has to be understood about autism. It is, in its rawest form, a developmental disorder that can affect how someone does damn near everything.

exactly, some traits of autism I'd happily be rid of (like the anxiety).  But others I'd like to keep.  I'd list some of things I can do here but people wouldn't believe me.

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

I recall a documentary a while back that basically did a bunch of brain analysis from some functional and semi-functional autistic patients and is basically looks like hole(s) drilled through their brain in terms of brain activity you'd normally expect in the 3D models. It's a permanent wiring of the brain and the mostly-functional people have managed to make their brain "wire around" the bad brain circuits, where as the barely-functional ones that seem to behave like 3 year olds forever, can not.

 

Here's at least one 

https://source.wustl.edu/2012/02/brain-differences-seen-at-6-months-in-infants-who-develop-autism/

 

This also suggests that there could be an environmental factor in play. Like did the parents ever partake in drugs, alcohol, or some other risky activity at any point before, during or the two years after the birth of their children?

 

I don't see how a BCI can "solve autism" any more than spackle can make a wall new again.

 

There is a plethora of studies and articles in the science world on Autism.  I would warn against relying on just one or two to form an idea of what it is. 

[Bombastinator]

32 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

That comes down to the person, not others.  I have a developmental disorder and I am fine with keeping it.  The problem is more with people assuming we are all the same, and acting like they know what we all want.  I have autism, and honestly I like the perks of it.  Sure there are problems, but I would rather have it than be cured of it.  Now, if it got rid of my epilepsy that woukd be nice as I am not really into being a break dance champion.

A lot of it is how old you are, how much pain it caused in your life, and what trade offs are required.  Disabilities become part of personality.  My worry isn’t a chance that it may be curative.  My worry is that brains are incredibly delicate, largely unknown territory, and critical to human life.  ect has an astoundingly horrible historical reputation.  On a level with lobotomy.  Great care needs to be taken.  Also the whole autism thing STILL wasn’t mentioned in the actual data.  That was an accusation of the title.

[SenKa]

1 hour ago, Energycore said:

And if he doesn't get there who cares, he's wasting his own money.

Exactly!

 

Elon is a social genius, and a very intelligent businessman. He knows how to work a crowd, and has money to toy with, so who cares what he does? This guy could stumble across the cure for brain cancer for all we know.

[poochyena]

from the article

Quote

Autism is not a disease.

what

 

5 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

autism isnt a negative thing

 

Show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.
You won't be able to, because its a negative thing.

[Bombastinator]

11 minutes ago, SenKa said:

Exactly!

 

Elon is a social genius, and a very intelligent businessman. He knows how to work a crowd, and has money to toy with, so who cares what he does? This guy could stumble across the cure for brain cancer for all we know.

It’s possible.  As to “who cares what he does?” I think he deserves the same rights to freedoms and the same oversight as anyone else.  No more, but also no less.  Immense wealth has great potential for both good and ill.  Tempted to quote Spider-Man here.  Or Jesus.  They both had valuable and very similar things to say on the subject despite opinions on their backgrounds.

[spartaman64]

9 minutes ago, poochyena said:

from the article

what

 

 

Show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.
You won't be able to, because its a negative thing.

there are many advantages to autism also like the ability to focus on one task for a long time. the people ive met that have autism are some of the smartest people i know. most of the negatives doesnt come from autism itself but from other people's stigma which shows that other people/society need to change not the people who have autism

[TrainFan475]

I won't believe it until I see it work

[Arika]

Holy fuck, it's like the people on this forum think that people with autism and aspergers are going to be rounded up and shocked into normalcy. 

 

It reminds me of that scene in xmen when rogue asks if there is a cure and storm says "there is no cure, there is nothing wrong with us" the person that can control weather says to the girl that can kill you if she touches you for too long. 

 

Isn't the whole argument about autism is that it's a spectrum disorder? So those that are debilitated by it may want a cure (rogue) and those that don't think so, or are happy with it, don't have to. But nor do you have the right to speak on behalf of everyone with autism or aspergers (storm) 

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

There are much much worse eccentric billionaires in the world. I dunno if he’s even crazy.  So far he’s reasonably high on my list of “people the world needs more of”.  The number of billionaires on that list is pretty freaking short.

Tbh most brilliant people are a bit crazy or at least seem a bit crazy. Take Albert einstein for example. He had some pretty crazy ideas but that is part of what made him brilliant. Think of the amount of times people have thought of a crazy idea that others thought was impossible and then they make it happen. One such idea is the airplane. I use to think have prosthetics that you could control just by thinking would be impossible but someone was crazy enough to think otherwise and make it happen. I have no doubt that this technology has a real possibility of success. 

[PlayStation 2]

6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Holy fuck, it's like the people on this forum think that people with autism and aspergers are going to be rounded up and shocked into normalcy. 

 

It reminds me of that scene in xmen when rogue asks if there is a cure and storm says "there is no cure, there is nothing wrong with us" the person that can control weather says to the girl that can kill you if she touches you for too long. 

 

Isn't the whole argument about autism is that it's a spectrum disorder? So those that are debilitated by it may want a cure (rogue) and those that don't think so, or are happy with it, don't have to. But nor do you have the right to speak on behalf of everyone with autism or aspergers (storm) 

This forum is just a really bad overdose of fucking cough medicine.

[poochyena]

34 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

there are many advantages to autism also like the ability to focus on one task for a long time. the people ive met that have autism are some of the smartest people i know. most of the negatives doesnt come from autism itself but from other people's stigma which shows that other people/society need to change not the people who have autism

then feel free to show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.

 

35 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

most of the negatives doesnt come from autism itself but from other people's stigma which shows that other people/society need to change not the people who have autism

wrong

[spartaman64]

12 minutes ago, poochyena said:

then feel free to show me someone without autism who would choose to have it.

 

wrong

 

why does it matter for it to be a person who doesnt have autism? i know at least 2 people with autism that like being able to focus on things for long periods and dont really mind the negatives/found ways around them. i haven't really discussed it with the other ones i know. and i dont walk up to people without autism and randomly ask them if they want to have autism but i can guarantee that a lot of people especially ones who are scientists or mathematicians would like the ability to focus better and who might not mind the social issues partially maybe because they are like me and are socially awkward even without autism anyways

[PlayStation 2]

What I don't seem to understand about this thread is that people would love to have the good of autism but wouldn't want to deal with the bad of it. That's something I really don't get about it, because you cannot have one without the other when it comes to autism. I'd rather have neither than to have autism, which might (read: most definitely doesn't) make me smarter but at the cost of being socially retarded.

[spartaman64]

9 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

What I don't seem to understand about this thread is that people would love to have the good of autism but wouldn't want to deal with the bad of it. That's something I really don't get about it, because you cannot have one without the other when it comes to autism. I'd rather have neither than to have autism, which might (read: most definitely doesn't) make me smarter but at the cost of being socially retarded.

I already basically have the bad of autism without having the good. When I was younger I wished I was more out going and stuff but now I don't mind it that much and accepted who I am

[Bombastinator]

35 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Tbh most brilliant people are a bit crazy or at least seem a bit crazy. Take Albert einstein for example. He had some pretty crazy ideas but that is part of what made him brilliant. Think of the amount of times people have thought of a crazy idea that others thought was impossible and then they make it happen. One such idea is the airplane. I use to think have prosthetics that you could control just by thinking would be impossible but someone was crazy enough to think otherwise and make it happen. I have no doubt that this technology has a real possibility of success. 

I personally doubt that there is such a thing as brilliance. Or at least it’s not nearly as extreme as people pretend.  There is variation in shape though. Specialization. People who have a talent for one thing frequently have a deficit in another.  Einstein for instance was famous for being unable to operate a vacuum cleaner.  The man was perilously close to non functional outside of theoretical physics.

 

As to the thinking prosthetics thing a lot of that is bunko.  Very frequently it’s actually biofeedback.  A machine amplifying the action of a small rarely used muscle.  Usually in the face or forehead.  The giveaway is when the muscles there are used there is a sort of “O” face that people take on because in order to manipulate that muscle they have to relax their entire face.  There was a game controller made by Atari in the 1970’s for a pong type game that used it.

[Brooksie359]

5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I personally doubt that there is such a thing as brilliance. Or at least it’s not nearly as extreme as people pretend.  There is variation in shape though. Specialization. People who have a talent for one thing frequently have a deficit in another.  Einstein for instance was famous for being unable to operate a vacuum cleaner.  The man was perilously close to non functional outside of theoretical physics.

 

As to the thinking prosthetics thing a lot of that is bunko.  Very frequently it’s actually biofeedback.  A machine amplifying the action of a small rarely used muscle.  Usually in the face or forehead.  The giveaway is when the muscles there are used there is a sort of “O” face that people take on because in order to manipulate that muscle they have to relax their entire face.  There was a game controller made by Atari in the 1970’s for a pong type game that used it.

Did you not see the recent news about them having prosthetics with the sense of touch? This isn't something simple like you make it out to be. Also being exceptional at one particular thing is still brilliant in my mind. 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

Asperger's Syndrome/high functioning autism for me as it's different for everyone with it.

Pros:

-Technically I get a free ride.  Like just having it waives my tuition.

 

-I get job opportunities all the time, and they don't even care about my credentials because I'm basically a great problem solver to them.   Plus, I'm like a walking tax break to several corporations.

 

-I do well at what interests me.

 

-Might come off as a wtf, but death doesn't bother me and I always shrug it off as something that just happens.

 

-I think from my autism I have a ridiculous pain tolerance to the point my dentist loves me, I call him daddy.  It also gave me a high tolerance towards hot peppers.

Cons:

-People yelling I'm crutching for not understanding something in a social scenario then saying it might be my autism.   I mean, at least from what I was told by mental health professionals, part of Aspergers/high functioning is not really doing well in social scenarios, and also not picking up on social cues.   Like I'm not trying to use it as an excuse for certain behaviors, and accept I can be an asshole at times as that's just part of being a human.   However, I'm just saying that part of it could be that regardless of it being okay or not.

 

-I was going to add more, but I kinda said it all in the first  con.   So, I tend to not do well in areas I have no interest in and can be highly judgmental towards others.   I mean I have grown out of it compared to how I use to be.  But, can still be judgmental.

-I love to brag.

 

-I love to argue and have a fuck you attitude towards authority which makes getting a job difficult.   Then again that might be due to me growing up on Henry Rollins and clinging to that.

-I have trouble asking for help, and can be a know it all.

 

As for epilepsy there's really only cons to it, and literally no pros.  I did go off my meds back in like 2016-2017 as I thought the cons outweighed the pros the them.   Then I started to realize I became an argumentative asshole, was seizuring out all the time, and was projecting on my friends in social scenarios.   I mean everyone tried getting me to do alternative medicine like the whole green card method to keto, and after doing the research behind that mindset I found that it wouldn't really help me at all.  At least not for my case.  Now, maybe it helps in some cases.   Like, I did the research on the seizures and cannabis and that was for a type of epilepsy I do not have where in some cases medication doesn't help.   Keto, I've done research into and it's not great for muscle development and there's honestly not enough evidence to prove that it would help.  Gave it a shot anyways and boy did the lack of fiber piss me off, and not only that but I was still seizuring out and still arguing.   Went back on my mood stabilizer that doubled as seizure medication aka a form of depaktoe.  Been arguing less, far more social, haven't seizured out since I went back on it, and ironically the health risk that concerned me is actually no longer a thing or extremely rare.

I have experienced none of this “free ride” stuff you mention myself.  At least not in any orginizational way.  I was born earlier though. The only free ride I remember getting for being socially awkward was a flying wedgie in middle school.  There were also some beatings.  Getting your ribs broken isn’t nearly as painful as it sounds.  Green stick fractures really suck though.

 

the social cues thing seems to be associated with noise cancelation and organization.  Problems with background noise such as elevator music are common.  People give off cues constantly.  Much of it is noise.  Being able to pick out the important bits and react to them automatically is something a lot of humans do without even conscious knowledge of it.  An autistic person often has trouble doing that even consciously, and the mere presence of It can be overwhelming.  Myself I am “face blind”. People often look similar to me that do not look similar to others.  I can often tell an expression is there but not what it means.  I have been present for whole conversations that took place in my presence without me understanding any of it because there were no words.  It was entirely non verbal.

 

i have never been married.  Women in general want little to do with me.  My stepmother once complained that I shouldn’t have to be told what her opinion on something was.  I should just know.  I was at a total loss.  How could I “know” something she didn’t tell me.  It’s like living in a world where everyone is telepathic but you.  When I was in my teens I made the mistake of reading “the screw tape letters” and was left convinced I must have sold my soul to the devil as a child.  The description of a doomed soul was disturbingly similar to my life experience.

I felt like I was a Pinocchio.  Doomed to forever to never be a real boy.  I never did become one.

 I suppose I should be all for this stuff.

i got old though. There are dangers in the world that can be created by ones own actions.  Elon is not immune from that.  But he is richer, and can make bigger actions.  Much bigger than that which might only affect himself.  Care must be taken.

[Energycore]

12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I have experienced none of this “free ride” stuff you mention myself.  At least not in any orginizational way.  I was born earlier though. The only free ride I remember getting for being socially awkward was a flying wedgie in middle school.  There were also some beatings.  Getting your ribs broken isn’t nearly as painful as it sounds.  Green stick fractures really suck though.

 

the social cues thing seems to be associated with noise cancelation and organization.  Problems with background noise such as elevator music are common.  People give off cues constantly.  Much of it is noise.  Being able to pick out the important bits and react to them automatically is something a lot of humans do without even conscious knowledge of it.  An autistic person often has trouble doing that even consciously, and the mere presence of It can be overwhelming.  Myself I am “face blind”. People often look similar to me that do not look similar to others.  I can often tell an expression is there but not what it means.  I have been present for whole conversations that took place in my presence without me understanding any of it because there were no words.  It was entirely non verbal.

 

i have never been married.  Women in general want little to do with me.  My stepmother once complained that I shouldn’t have to be told what her opinion on something was.  I should just know.  I was at a total loss.  How could I “know” something she didn’t tell me.  It’s like living in a world where everyone is telepathic but you.  When I was in my teens I made the mistake of reading “the screw tape letters” and was left convinced I must have sold my soul to the devil as a child.  The description of a doomed soul was disturbingly similar to my life experience.

I felt like I was a Pinocchio.  Doomed to forever to never be a real boy.

 I suppose I should be all for this stuff.

i got old though.

I can understand the women bit. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that there's no chance though.

[Energycore]

4 minutes ago, comander said:

I probably have Aspergers (mild). Not sure if I'd actually want a cure. 

A career in Tech covers most of the downsides and a lot of my quirkiness is seen as novel where I'm at. Beyond that a lot of the things I've done to compensate for my idiosyncrasies ended up ameliorating a lot of the downsides.  

Also it'd be a pretty huge culture shock to adjust in with "normal" people. 

I've never been diagnosed and have recently found a previously unknown ease to interact with other people, but for the longest time I was sure I was in the spectrum. I can agree that if you're on the functional side, it's more a boon than a hindrance. The tech job definitely resonates with me.

[Bombastinator]

18 minutes ago, Energycore said:

I can understand the women bit. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that there's no chance though.

I’m over 50.  That ship sailed many years ago.  Older women don’t put up with more BS they put up with less BS.  And who could blame them?

The only women I have ever been able to attract are either abusers (dated a diagnosed narcissist once.  Don’t EVER do that) or had problems even more overwhelming than mine to a degree that simply being attached to them was deadly.  That last bit is cowardice I guess. I would be dead now but I could have been married.  Perhaps my issues are deadly too and like merely finds like.  If the last is true the only appropriate behavior is to not inflict myself on someone.

[PlayStation 2]

36 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

i have never been married.  Women in general want little to do with me.  My stepmother once complained that I shouldn’t have to be told what her opinion on something was.  I should just know.  I was at a total loss.  How could I “know” something she didn’t tell me.  It’s like living in a world where everyone is telepathic but you.  When I was in my teens I made the mistake of reading “the screw tape letters” and was left convinced I must have sold my soul to the devil as a child.  The description of a doomed soul was disturbingly similar to my life experience.

I felt like I was a Pinocchio.  Doomed to forever to never be a real boy.  I never did become one.

Understanding women to me is like trying to read the texture of a brick: it's nigh impossible. It's why I'm gay: I understand men better. Yeah, not everyone with autism are like this (as a matter of fact, I dunno if there's any real correlation), but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a link between autism and not being able to read certain people.