A Rant about LTT's Latest $1000 Build Guide

[Jito463]

11 hours ago, DocSwag said:

The thing is, doing this builds not a loyal fanbase that will stick with you, but an unstable fanbase that is likely to abandon you. If you're looking to the future, a loyal fanbase that will stick to watching your videos is what you want, since an unstable fanbase leads to a lower view/sub ratio.

 

11 hours ago, SSL said:

As for a loyal "fanbase", there really isn't any such thing on a large scale in the real world. "Loyal" fans can turn on you and be lost pretty quickly, and that isn't always something that is easily controllable. In any case, statistics show that their channel is enjoying accelerating growth right now, so we have to assume that what they are doing is working.

As the old adage goes:

You can please some of the people all of the time;

or all of the people, some of the time;

but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

Hence why, at some point, a corporation and it's base becomes nothing more than a numbers game.  It's just not possible to try and please everyone, and a person would go insane trying to do so.  All they can do is try and please the majority of people, while minimizing the fallout with the rest.

[Misanthrope]

30 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

not a good excuse they could easily get a 1600 and a rx580 sample. 

Either of them that is not being used to benchmark? They're so new I doubt they can spare them right now. 

[This_guy1998]

11 hours ago, n00bmlg said:

I didn't watch the video all the way through, but for $1000 I expected a 1070 at least, you could probably do a 580 build for around $700-$800

Here is my current rig with a 7700k and Strix 1070 Cost is $1,528: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/ntMJ2R

Here is the modified PC with a 7500 and B250 board, cheaper (but OK) SSD, and 8 GB of Ram Cost $1,089: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/qjN6VY

I also included Windows which is around $145 at the moment, but if you are like me who has 6 copies of Windows (long story but I got them legally) or you can find it cheaper then this will change.

 

Also here is my HTPC build (using parts from my original rig and old HTPC, last gen parts but thought I would throw it out for comparison I wouldn't recommend some of these parts now) with a X150M and a i5 equivalent of a Xeon and a 970 cost $989 (I got the 970 new last April right before the 10-series came out, got some of the parts on sale last summer, and bought some now, so price is +/- a few $$$ (not much because I rounded up on some)): https://pcpartpicker.com/list/h3Wtd6

 

 

[The Sloth]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

Either of them that is not being used to benchmark? They're so new I doubt they can spare them right now. 

still for a few minutes to do a build a 1600 is much better than a i5 7500.

 

[This_guy1998]

If you use a basic 1070 the cost goes down to around $1,110.

[The Sloth]

Just now, This_guy1998 said:

If you use a basic 1070 the cost goes down to around $1,110.

you can make a pc around 1k usd with a 1070 for cheaper than that. 

[This_guy1998]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

you can make a pc around 1k usd with a 1070 for cheaper than that. 

Keep in mind I also left in $145 for Windows but some people have keys so the cost can come down. Also true PCPartPicker doesn't always have the best deals, but you can hunt your self. Also I could have used a i5 7400.

[The Sloth]

Just now, This_guy1998 said:

i5 7400

not worth it.

 

Just now, This_guy1998 said:

Keep in mind I also left in $145 for Windows but some people have keys so the cost can come down. Also true PCPartPicker doesn't always have the best deals, but you can hunt your self. Also I could have used a i5 7400.

 

as a whole linus pissed off a lot of people with the shitty part list. 

[Not_Sean]

11 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

as a whole linus pissed off a lot of people with the shitty part list. 

Thats what has gotten people mad, its not people debating over the small things, we are all in agreement its just a really bad build, bad use of money. He talks about price per performance than this machine completely ignores it. 

[arnavvr]

15 minutes ago, This_guy1998 said:

Keep in mind I also left in $145 for Windows but some people have keys so the cost can come down. Also true PCPartPicker doesn't always have the best deals, but you can hunt your self. Also I could have used a i5 7400.

 

Uhh, why is Windows $145.

[Prysin]

12 hours ago, SSL said:

 

In case you missed the boat, LTT is a business now. They have employees to pay and kids to feed. That means making sacrifices in terms of quality and reputability in order to grow the channel and increase cashflow. Whether it is lame video thumbnails or sponsored builds of dubious value, you have to accept that reliable and accurate information is not necessarily the prime concern of a channel like this.

sorry mate, but reputation is everything, LMG isnt funny enough to rely on their entertainment value alone. They need this hybrid goofy funny facts and helpful tips thing to work. Whenever they try to be funny or JUST to entertain, they come across as scripted. Scripted fun, isnt fun.

 

LMG needs to decide what is important. integrity or money. I am sure they can hold off on buying a RED camera for a few months, if it means holding off from throwing their integrity and reputation at a fucking bonfire.

[yathis]

6 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

Have you ever thought that maybe they shoot the footage before

Yes just like the April Fools video.

 

I doubt they shot it too far back. Tech changes and updates so quickly they cant be doing that.

Knowing how they tend to slack off, no doubt they did exactly that. But then why not post it right when Ryzen came out?

They did not, hence the vid was sponsored.

 

 

[Prysin]

11 hours ago, Syntaxvgm said:

i'm stealing that.

[SSL]

3 minutes ago, Prysin said:

sorry mate, but reputation is everything, LMG isnt funny enough to rely on their entertainment value alone. They need this hybrid goofy funny facts and helpful tips thing to work. Whenever they try to be funny or JUST to entertain, they come across as scripted. Scripted fun, isnt fun.

 

LMG needs to decide what is important. integrity or money. I am sure they can hold off on buying a RED camera for a few months, if it means holding off from throwing their integrity and reputation at a fucking bonfire.

 

I agree with you 100%. But the numbers don't at this time. It remains to be seen if or when the bubble will burst.

[This_guy1998]

Honestly I like Linus's business model, but I have seen big changes ever since they have moved to the new office back in the middle of 2015. Do some of these changes make sense? Yes and No. TBH I don't even watch LTT as much anymore, because I'd rather rely on info from some of these "smaller" YouTubers like Jay, Austin, Kyle, TLD, etc... Heck even MKBHD (one of the biggest if not biggest Techtubers out there) videos aren't as biased as Linus's have been lately. A good example of this would be UnRAID, I would not want to use a "Server" OS that is based on a thumb-drive (even if I had it backed up) there are still to many problems with the OS in general to be considered "useable" in a business environment (maybe even a home one for that matter). Also some of these "suggestions" I wouldn't even use like the video about Data Storage on the Cheap and why you shouldn't use a crappy NAS that he put out a year ago. Like even all of these "Small-Form Factor" PC/case reviews are getting old. I understand you need to cover it but most of the other Techtubers aren't beating a dead horse with these Small PC reviews. The only one that was different was the Corsair-One PC. At least the WAN show has stayed the same for the most part along with Luke's "Unofficial" After-Party after the WAN when I can catch it live (even though it isn't part of LMG). I am considering canceling my Floatplane Club membership after my year is up in November.

 

Also, I feel when some of the "early-access" content when it is wrong or missing info and when people notice it nothing is fixed before going to YT (even if it means delaying it go ahead) isn't right either.

 

6 hours ago, SSL said:

LMG needs to decide what is important. integrity or money. I am sure they can hold off on buying a RED camera for a few months, if it means holding off from throwing their integrity and reputation at a fucking bonfire.

They could of not hired all those writers to. I'm saying it is a bad thing, but you can tell the writing style is different from Linus and Luke. Now having Jon for Tech Quickie is different because it is a different type of video that is done and he and Dennis have made that channel really good. As for LTT is feels like it is too scripted now and that Linus is just reading something that has hasn't really read/been involved in before. If you wrote it yourself it doesn't seem as scripted. I think Channel Super Fun is doing good as a once a week side channel that is mainly just other LMG employees and that's great.

[mrchow19910319]

14 hours ago, SSL said:

The forum has it's own problems, which I have discussed elsewhere. 

LOL. FOr the heck of it. Please elaborate.

10 hours ago, Ringthane said:

"We know better than you do and if you don't like it, who cares" mentality.

This. I think that they are treating their audience like potatoes  and mushrooms right now. 

      "Just watch the damn video and laugh. Watch us be funny, you want to see dennis? Here, see him and laugh. "

This is how I felt for a long time now. I don't know about others. 

This is the real reason why people are upset about his latest videos. 

[Bouzoo]

7 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

Specially a CPU cooler on a Locked CPU ?! ?!

Because other locked CPUs work w/o coolers right? 

 

I honestly don't like where this thread is going for few reasons.

I had multiple comments in the official LTT thread about how the build was bad, but I do understand it's sponsored so I know why it was bad, but calling Linus a sellout for this video after so many other build logs that were also sponsored throughout these few last years is beyond dumb. Sellout. I think people need to revisit a dictionary. 

Secondly, people saying how the title is clickbait and that he's deceiving the audience. No no no, the simulated Ryzen thread was deceiving and clickbait, this is not lying. It isn't. It is a $1000 build log, albeit a bad one, so for the people calling it deceiving and clickbait, I'd like for them to point out those parts in the title.

[Space Reptile]

8 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

The guide said to buy whatever ram it was cheapest during the time you're building it

but make shure you buy a 200$ case and 80$ cooler for your locked i5 , come on ,

bqt has cheaper alternatives as others already pointed out plenty of times

[LinusTech]

Should be able to find some time to discuss on WAN Show tomorrow.

 

But the short version is this:

 

- Build planning took place before Ryzen 5 launch, build shooting took place before Ryzen was (in our opinion) stable enough to be recommended.

- We consciously didn't leverage sale prices or mail in rebates or anything like that so we ended up with a relatively lackluster build, but one that can DEFINITELY be achieved for that money.

- The "budget" in the original title was the "maximum budget", and not meant to mean that it was a "cheap" build. That would be $400-600 (imo)

- The whole project was delayed a few times by the process of onboarding the new writers.

- It was sponsored by be quiet! What the hell case and power supply were you expecting us to use? We were very up front about it

 

And anyway, at the end of the day, while we can debate the exact parts choices, do they matter that much? No matter what we put in it, a month later there'd be something that would make more sense. Such is life. Is this computer going to work? Would someone buy it and have a STABLE, quiet, good looking computing experience? They would, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say "chillax a little, yo"

 

So yeah, I get the frustration, and our next build guide will be better (we were a little rusty and rushed on this one trying to bang it out since we were PAINFULLY aware that it was becoming less relevant by the day) but it's irritating to see a parts list you might disagree with turn into an inability to see anything that was good about the piece of content.

[LogicalDrm]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

And anyway, at the end of the day, while we can debate the exact parts choices, do they matter that much?

 

I think you should emphasize more that build guide is just example. One should ALWAYS do some own research about which parts are those to pay bit more for to get better performance etc. And also the fact that prices for products varie across the world. So one might not get same performance with same amount of dollars, or sometimes euros or whatever the equivalent currency would be. Or that some parts you use might not be available everywhere.

 

There are so many fans of you who take everything you do or say very literally. It's not directly your fault. But you should be more forward about guiding audience to make in depended decision and take your picks as opinion more than a suggestion.

 

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

So yeah, I get the frustration, and our next build guide will be better (we were a little rusty and rushed ...

 

I do hope so. This one had at least one WTAF moment. The part where you apply thermal paste BEFORE installing coolers mounting bracket. I don't remember if there was some others, probably yes. But that part made me think that you were doing another fooling around build with Austin (referencing to the Borinator build from his channel).

[Baked_Potato0934]

20 hours ago, DocSwag said:

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  ($217.55 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B350 PC MATE ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($81.99 @ B&H) 
Memory: Team Dark 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($99.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Kingston HyperX Fury 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($80.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 8GB SC GAMING ACX 3.0 Black Edition Video Card  ($379.99 @ Newegg) 
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 600 (Black/Silver) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Power Supply: SeaSonic 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($56.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Total: $997.49
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-04 11:32 EDT-0400

 

You have used USD when generating this list, they used CAD. Ergo your pricing is more than what the video is stating. $1374.29 Canadian Dollars to be exact. Prime example is that the video card you have priced is

525.99

 

[Bananasplit_00]

20 hours ago, SSL said:

 

In case you missed the boat, LTT is a business now. They have employees to pay and kids to feed. That means making sacrifices in terms of quality and reputability in order to grow the channel and increase cashflow. Whether it is lame video thumbnails or sponsored builds of dubious value, you have to accept that reliable and accurate information is not necessarily the prime concern of a channel like this.

sure LTT are a big corperation but this could have been done, even with the beQuiet sponsorship, to a better value:

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LFZcr7
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LFZcr7/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor  ($217.55 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B350 PC MATE ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($81.99 @ B&H) 
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2800 Memory  ($56.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Sandisk SSD PLUS 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($54.95 @ Adorama) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($47.45 @ OutletPC) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Windforce OC Video Card  ($341.73 @ Amazon) 
Case: be quiet! Silent Base 600 (Black/Orange) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Power Supply: be quiet! STRAIGHT POWER 10 CM 600W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($110.00) 
Total: $1000.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 08:32 EDT-0400

 

you could probably drop sometihng down a bit too and get the cooler aswell. i find it sad that they had to do it as value when it was pretty shitty. i can see that they need the money but i cant see how upsetting their entire viewerbase is a good thing and i feel bad for the people who will go out and get this. sure LTT may not give a danm but i feel that we should call them out on it either way, they could have gotten so much more for the money and even then had the bequiet thing going on. sure they would have had to drop the rgb and TG but if you cant sacrefice that for vastly better preformance then you have failed at PC partpicking hard in my opinion. atleast the video had good instructions on how to put the things together lol.

 

 

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Baked_Potato0934 said:

 

LTT generally uses USD. But, let's look at LTT's build in CAD anyway: 

 

Pure Base 600 Window Black/Orange: $135 (Newegg.ca)

Dark Rock 3: $110 (Amazon.ca)

Pure Power 10 600w: not available anywhere in Canada, but $76 in the US (and also not available) 

7500 - $260 (Amazon.ca/Newegg.ca)

Asus B150m-Plus D3: $117 (Newegg.ca)

cheapest 16gb DDR4: $112 (Amazon.ca)

cheapest RX480: $295 (NCIX)

cheapest 240gb ssd: $99 (shoprbc) 

Total cost: $1200 CAD

 

So even LTT's build is well over the $1000 mark in CAD, and that is accounting for sale prices -- which LTT specifically didn't want to account for. 

[Bananasplit_00]

8 hours ago, This_guy1998 said:

Keep in mind I also left in $145 for Windows but some people have keys so the cost can come down. Also true PCPartPicker doesn't always have the best deals, but you can hunt your self. Also I could have used a i5 7400.

an I5 7400 is an even worse way to spend your cash here.... why would you get one instead of a R5 1400?...

 

8 hours ago, arnavvr said:

Uhh, why is Windows $145.

probably a full key of win 10 ultimate or something idk...

 

6 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Because other locked CPUs work w/o coolers right? 

 

I honestly don't like where this thread is going for few reasons.

I had multiple comments in the official LTT thread about how the build was bad, but I do understand it's sponsored so I know why it was bad, but calling Linus a sellout for this video after so many other build logs that were also sponsored throughout these few last years is beyond dumb. Sellout. I think people need to revisit a dictionary. 

Secondly, people saying how the title is clickbait and that he's deceiving the audience. No no no, the simulated Ryzen thread was deceiving and clickbait, this is not lying. It isn't. It is a $1000 build log, albeit a bad one, so for the people calling it deceiving and clickbait, I'd like for them to point out those parts in the title.

i do agree but the title has been changed, it had budget in it when it first came out which would promote the idea that this is a good value build, now it dosent and i feel more OK with it. the parts list is shit, like absolute shit, but i can understand some of it, if it was filmed before Ryzen 5 then it should have had a disclaimer about that aswell just like it did with the 580.

 

6 hours ago, LinusTech said:

-snip-

i am beyond happy that you took your time to adress this man but the title just was too misleading for most people(me included) about what the budget was here. for a $1000 there are still better things you could have done with the build, keeping with beQuiet and Intel like has been pointed at by so many here. its good that you post replies like this atleast so we know you atleast pay some attention here.

[DocSwag]

8 hours ago, Jito463 said:

 

As the old adage goes:

You can please some of the people all of the time;

or all of the people, some of the time;

but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

Hence why, at some point, a corporation and it's base becomes nothing more than a numbers game.  It's just not possible to try and please everyone, and a person would go insane trying to do so.  All they can do is try and please the majority of people, while minimizing the fallout with the rest.

My point though is that thinking to the future it would be in their interests to do so.

5 hours ago, LinusTech said:

- Build planning took place before Ryzen 5 launch, build shooting took place before Ryzen was (in our opinion) stable enough to be recommended.

I understand that, but you gave a little disclaimer in the video stating the 580 is out, hence why I'm asking why you couldn't do the same for Ryzen.

6 hours ago, LinusTech said:

- We consciously didn't leverage sale prices or mail in rebates or anything like that so we ended up with a relatively lackluster build, but one that can DEFINITELY be achieved for that money.

- The "budget" in the original title was the "maximum budget", and not meant to mean that it was a "cheap" build. That would be $400-600 (imo)

- The whole project was delayed a few times by the process of onboarding the new writers.

- It was sponsored by be quiet! What the hell case and power supply were you expecting us to use? We were very up front about it

Not sure what your second point is addressing so I won't address it (except by addressing that I won't address it lol wut am I doing ).

 

Here is a build that uses be quiet psu, case, and cooler as well as a 7600 AND 1070. Without any sales or mail in rebates (I checked, the Amazon ones don't count since they're always there):

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7600 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($199.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($28.49 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: MSI B250 PC MATE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($104.76 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Kingston HyperX Fury 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($80.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Windforce OC Video Card  ($341.73 @ Amazon) 
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 600 w/Window (Black/Orange) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($99.90 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Other: be quiet! Pure Power 10 500w ($55.90)
Total: $999.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 09:00 EDT-0400

6 hours ago, LinusTech said:

And anyway, at the end of the day, while we can debate the exact parts choices, do they matter that much? No matter what we put in it, a month later there'd be something that would make more sense. Such is life. Is this computer going to work? Would someone buy it and have a STABLE, quiet, good looking computing experience? They would, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say "chillax a little, yo"

 

So yeah, I get the frustration, and our next build guide will be better (we were a little rusty and rushed on this one trying to bang it out since we were PAINFULLY aware that it was becoming less relevant by the day) but it's irritating to see a parts list you might disagree with turn into an inability to see anything that was good about the piece of content.

I understand that, and that's why I just priced together a list using an i5 instead of an r5 and using be quiet parts and a 1070 while being under budget.

 

You see, my main problem with this build guide ISN'T that up you used Intel instead of Ryzen. It ISN'T that you had to use all be quiet! parts. Rather, it was just how poorly it was priced out.

 

You spent $75 on a CPU cooler with a locked CPU, when you could've got a $30 one that you wouldn't have noticed the difference between due to the CPU being locked.

 

You spent another $20 extra for 100w on the psu when the build doesn't really come close to that.

 

You bought a B150 board+Kaby Lake CPU. And while the majority of the time this won't be an issue, enough people will probably buy a B150 board+Kaby Lake CPU because of this that at least one person will.

 

Adding all the money saved means that we can now get a 30% faster GPU. And the rest of the build still will feel pretty much the same.

 

Even for a month ago when Ryzen wasn't out this is a poorly priced out build.

 

While someone would have a good experience with this build, they could pay the same price and have a BETTER experience. A noticeably better one, in fact.