A Rant about LTT's Latest $1000 Build Guide

[NumLock21]

9 hours ago, Prysin said:

i'm stealing that.

Now it won't be stealing cause you have mentioned it. It's long term borrowing. 

 

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

Now it won't be stealing cause you have mentioned it. It's long term borrowing. 

 

I'm gonna go borrow me a 911 Turbo S. 

[givingtnt]

what I didn't like : 

The editing seems.. lacking ?
I mean, compared to other build guids, this one is so stripped from any animation or anything interesting like the others had, its kinds lame. it feels rushed. and not well thought out.

 

what I like : 

well. not much tbh.

computer is not optimal.

video is eh.

what value is there in this video ?

 

id rather reccomend an older build guide for how to build the computer. this is just lame.

[Hunter259]

8 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Should be able to find some time to discuss on WAN Show tomorrow.

 

But the short version is this:

 

- Build planning took place before Ryzen 5 launch, build shooting took place before Ryzen was (in our opinion) stable enough to be recommended.

- We consciously didn't leverage sale prices or mail in rebates or anything like that so we ended up with a relatively lackluster build, but one that can DEFINITELY be achieved for that money.

- The "budget" in the original title was the "maximum budget", and not meant to mean that it was a "cheap" build. That would be $400-600 (imo)

- The whole project was delayed a few times by the process of onboarding the new writers.

- It was sponsored by be quiet! What the hell case and power supply were you expecting us to use? We were very up front about it

 

And anyway, at the end of the day, while we can debate the exact parts choices, do they matter that much? No matter what we put in it, a month later there'd be something that would make more sense. Such is life. Is this computer going to work? Would someone buy it and have a STABLE, quiet, good looking computing experience? They would, so I don't think it's unreasonable to say "chillax a little, yo"

 

So yeah, I get the frustration, and our next build guide will be better (we were a little rusty and rushed on this one trying to bang it out since we were PAINFULLY aware that it was becoming less relevant by the day) but it's irritating to see a parts list you might disagree with turn into an inability to see anything that was good about the piece of content.

Unfortuantly, sometimes you have to scrap what you have as it is no longer relevant. I can understand that at the time Ryzen may not have been stable enough but you and the rest of the community knew that it would get better on a daily basis. At the time of this video, the stability issues are now entering nonexistence. I know that it would have massively sucked to trash all of the footage to put another one together but this build was just straight up late to the party. Had it come out a few weeks ago and you had put a disclaimer during the part listing portion of the video explaining why you didn't choose Ryzen then I would see much less backlash towards you. Unlike some of these people I'm not trying to bust your ass over something like this. I think I'm right to assume that an Ultimate Ryzen build is up and coming which would appease a great many in the community, especially if it is up to the standard of the Ultimate Value Rig or the Ultimate 4K Gaming Rig. Hopefully you read this and it did not come off as harsh or anything but just light commentary. 

 

Now I would also LOVE to see a build log using USED parts. Not everyone is ok with using used parts with a build but I would love to see what you guys could come up with off eBay or Reddit /r/HardwareSwap . You could explain what you feel is something you would be confortable with buying used (IMO Cpu, Ram, GPU, Mobo) and what you would buy new (Again IMO PSU, Case, Hard Drive/SSD, CLC Water Coolers unless it was part of a hybrid GPU). Would be a very cool build and something you really haven't done besides the extreme budget Scrapyard Wars builds.

[Text79]

I realize I'm new here, but the budget build is a good quality build. People have far worse machines and have spent the same money. Especially those that are new to building PC and don't know the seemingly endless options of parts out there. I know there are better builds that can be done for the same money as shown by DocSwag. Just like DocSwag said eliminating the sponsorship would save money, But at the end of the day the build as is will game 1080p at over 60fps with most AAA titles. This is what I feel is the point of the video.

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, Text79 said:

I realize I'm new here, but the budget build is a good quality build. People have far worse machines and have spent the same money. Especially those that are new to building PC and don't know the seemingly endless options of parts out there. I know there are better builds that can be done for the same money as shown by DocSwag. Just like DocSwag said eliminating the sponsorship would save money, But at the end of the day the build as is will game 1080p at over 60fps with most AAA titles. This is what I feel is the point of the video.

I wouldn't take a potential 30% higher performance lightly.

[vanished]

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

LTT generally uses USD. But, let's look at LTT's build in CAD anyway: 

 

Pure Base 600 Window Black/Orange: $135 (Newegg.ca)

Dark Rock 3: $110 (Amazon.ca)

Pure Power 10 600w: not available anywhere in Canada, but $76 in the US (and also not available) 

7500 - $260 (Amazon.ca/Newegg.ca)

Asus B150m-Plus D3: $117 (Newegg.ca)

cheapest 16gb DDR4: $112 (Amazon.ca)

cheapest RX480: $295 (NCIX)

cheapest 240gb ssd: $99 (shoprbc) 

Total cost: $1200 CAD

 

So even LTT's build is well over the $1000 mark in CAD, and that is accounting for sale prices -- which LTT specifically didn't want to account for. 

Well what were you expecting?  CAD prices are generally ~35% higher due to the exchange rate, so if it was $1000 USD, there's simply mo way in hell it's gonna be around $1000 CAD

[Jito463]

22 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well what were you expecting?  CAD prices are generally ~35% higher due to the exchange rate, so if it was $1000 USD, there's simply mo way in hell it's gonna be around $1000 CAD

He was responding to someone who said that $1k build was in Canadian dollars, and was showing that even in Canadian dollars it was over $1k.

[vanished]

12 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

He was responding to someone who said that $1k build was in Canadian dollars, and was showing that even in Canadian dollars it was over $1k.

Well in case anyone was wondering

[yathis]

Actually in Canada everything is more expensive to begin with, then you add onto that the exchange rate.

But since LTT /LMG is Canadian, they were using Canadian Dollars.

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, yathis said:

Actually in Canada everything is more expensive to begin with, then you add onto that the exchange rate.

But since LTT /LMG is Canadian, they were using Canadian Dollars.

If that were the case, then this "$1000" build would cost about $1200 CAD, and that's with sale prices -- which Linus didn't want to take into account. 

[yathis]

What if it was $1000 Canadian Dollars which would mean it was $750USD

They are a Canadian company, so.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, yathis said:

What if it was $1000 Canadian Dollars which would mean it was $750USD

They are a Canadian company, so.

Again, part out the build, it totals to about $1200 CAD. AND most builds that LTT has done in the past have been priced in USD. This build wasn't priced in CAD. 

[yathis]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Again, part out the build, it totals to about $1200 CAD. 

Then they lied to us in the title.

The title should read $1200 build not $1000

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=convert+1200+cad+to+usd&t=ffab&atb=v61-4_a&ia=currency

[79wjd]

Just now, yathis said:

Then they lied to us in the title.

The title should read $1200 build not $1000

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=convert+1200+cad+to+usd&t=ffab&atb=v61-4_a&ia=currency

It's priced in USD, like all LTT builds are and have been. 

[yathis]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's priced in USD, like all LTT builds are and have been. 

They should state that in the title then, but I know I know they are lazy and rush their vids.

For example the title should have read $1000USD Build

[Prysin]

Perhaps, Linus, if you ar still reading that is. Next time, ask teh community what they would consider a good PC in that price range. After all, you have thousands, if not a few millions, that is fully capable to making great builds to a specification.

 

Sure, it may be limiting if we only use Newegg or Amazon or NCIX. 

Sure, taking into account specific parts due to sponsorship would limit things.

 

But you still have a FUCKING COMMUNITY THAT CARES. When will you leverage that? As a business owner, you are looking at FREE, untapped potential. and all you have to "return" is give credit to the build you pick. Which isnt that fucking hard nor going to "hurt you" much if at all.

[Prysin]

18 hours ago, DocSwag said:

I wouldn't take a potential 30% higher performance lightly.

30% is a lot. It is basically like going from a 1080 to a 1080Ti.... the difference between 4k 45 FPS and 4k 60FPS

[LAwLz]

10 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Perhaps, Linus, if you ar still reading that is. Next time, ask teh community what they would consider a good PC in that price range. After all, you have thousands, if not a few millions, that is fully capable to making great builds to a specification.

 

Sure, it may be limiting if we only use Newegg or Amazon or NCIX. 

Sure, taking into account specific parts due to sponsorship would limit things.

 

But you still have a FUCKING COMMUNITY THAT CARES. When will you leverage that? As a business owner, you are looking at FREE, untapped potential. and all you have to "return" is give credit to the build you pick. Which isnt that fucking hard nor going to "hurt you" much if at all.

I am 99% sure Linus could have made a better build by himself. The problem is that he gets paid to include certain parts in the build and as I think we have all realized by now, making money is more important than making good videos to LMG.

 

LinusTechTips is a youtube channel full of commercials. If you want info you need to look elsewhere. Like copying a build from logicalincrements and then ask on a forum for suggestions for tweaks.

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I am 99% sure Linus could have made a better build by himself. The problem is that he gets paid to include certain parts in the build and as I think we have all realized by now, making money is more important than making good videos to LMG.

 

LinusTechTips is a youtube channel full of commercials. If you want info you need to look elsewhere. Like copying a build from logicalincrements and then ask on a forum for suggestions for tweaks.

It's also more than that, it's there ridiculous upload schedule -- I watched the WAN show bit where he spoke about this and unless I'm mistaken he said most of the parts were chosen in January.....five months ago. There are certain videos that are time sensitive and this would be one of them. Another thing is that the video was shot about a month ago and he even realized how shitty the build was by the time they finally launched the video, but he didn't care, he launched it anyway rather than revising/fixing it. And that tells a lot. 

[DocSwag]

2 hours ago, Prysin said:

Perhaps, Linus, if you ar still reading that is. Next time, ask teh community what they would consider a good PC in that price range. After all, you have thousands, if not a few millions, that is fully capable to making great builds to a specification.

 

Sure, it may be limiting if we only use Newegg or Amazon or NCIX. 

Sure, taking into account specific parts due to sponsorship would limit things.

 

But you still have a FUCKING COMMUNITY THAT CARES. When will you leverage that? As a business owner, you are looking at FREE, untapped potential. and all you have to "return" is give credit to the build you pick. Which isnt that fucking hard nor going to "hurt you" much if at all.

That's another thing that I thought of he could've done... He could've come to the community and made a thread asking for suggestions on a $1000 build that includes a be quiet! case, psu, and cooler and made a few tweaks to it and used it in the video.

2 hours ago, Prysin said:

30% is a lot. It is basically like going from a 1080 to a 1080Ti.... the difference between 4k 45 FPS and 4k 60FPS

Exactly. You can't just say "you can play 1080p 60 fps anyways who cares."

 

-In some games an rx 580 can't get 1080p 60fps at ultra

-What if the person has a monitor with a higher refresh rate and/or resolution

-In the future games will only become more taxing so future games might need a 1070 for 1080p 60fps at ultra

 

There is NEVER a good reason to skip 30% more performance unless you're HUGELY sacrificing other stuff (which evidently you aren't in this case). People who say this build is "gonna be enough" are just trying to make excuses. What if we just went and made their build 25% slower and said "well it's still gonna be enough." Would THEY still say, "Yeah it's enough thanks for taking 25% performance away."

 

@LinusTechsince you didn't address in the WAN show (at least I don't think you did, didn't watch the whole thing but didn't see anything in the time stamps) could we have a response or better explanation of sorts? I'd at least want to hear from you regarding this:

23 hours ago, DocSwag said:

My point though is that thinking to the future it would be in their interests to do so.

I understand that, but you gave a little disclaimer in the video stating the 580 is out, hence why I'm asking why you couldn't do the same for Ryzen.

Not sure what your second point is addressing so I won't address it (except by addressing that I won't address it lol wut am I doing ).

 

Here is a build that uses be quiet psu, case, and cooler as well as a 7600 AND 1070. Without any sales or mail in rebates (I checked, the Amazon ones don't count since they're always there):

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-7600 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($199.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: be quiet! PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($28.49 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: MSI B250 PC MATE ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($88.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($104.76 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Kingston HyperX Fury 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($80.99 @ Amazon) 
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB Windforce OC Video Card  ($341.73 @ Amazon) 
Case: be quiet! Pure Base 600 w/Window (Black/Orange) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($99.90 @ Newegg Marketplace) 
Other: be quiet! Pure Power 10 500w ($55.90)
Total: $999.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 09:00 EDT-0400

I understand that, and that's why I just priced together a list using an i5 instead of an r5 and using be quiet parts and a 1070 while being under budget.

 

You see, my main problem with this build guide ISN'T that up you used Intel instead of Ryzen. It ISN'T that you had to use all be quiet! parts. Rather, it was just how poorly it was priced out.

 

You spent $75 on a CPU cooler with a locked CPU, when you could've got a $30 one that you wouldn't have noticed the difference between due to the CPU being locked.

 

You spent another $20 extra for 100w on the psu when the build doesn't really come close to that.

 

You bought a B150 board+Kaby Lake CPU. And while the majority of the time this won't be an issue, enough people will probably buy a B150 board+Kaby Lake CPU because of this that at least one person will.

 

Adding all the money saved means that we can now get a 30% faster GPU. And the rest of the build still will feel pretty much the same.

 

Even for a month ago when Ryzen wasn't out this is a poorly priced out build.

 

While someone would have a good experience with this build, they could pay the same price and have a BETTER experience. A noticeably better one, in fact.

(Not trying to be aggressive or anything but you said you would discuss it on the wan show but you didn't so I just want a follow up).

[spwath]

this doubleplusungood duckspeak will get us nowhere. To succeed, we need to bellyfeel the doubleplusgood ideas of big brother, err, ltt.

[Tsuki]

that cpu cooler on a locked cpu..bugged the shit outta me.

unoptimized build in every way

[yathis]

17 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

but he didn't care, he launched it anyway rather than revising/fixing it. And that tells a lot. 

Yes, you are totally correct.

[dalekphalm]

On 2017-5-5 at 6:38 PM, yathis said:

Actually in Canada everything is more expensive to begin with, then you add onto that the exchange rate.

But since LTT /LMG is Canadian, they were using Canadian Dollars.

LTT always, ALWAYS prices in USD, unless they specifically specify otherwise. Any video that quotes pricing, is USD pricing. This is the case now, and has always been the case. Why? Because predominantly, most of his users are Americans. So the fact that LMG is a Canadian Company is, frankly, irrelevant. So it's not a $1000 CAD build. It's a $1000 USD ($1365 CAD) build. and he shouldn't need to specify (though it wouldn't hurt, if he added USD to build prices in the future).

 

Now back on topic:

With that in mind, one thing people are forgetting with their builds, is that Linus SPECIFICALLY wanted to do this build without SALES OR MAIL-IN REBATES. Why? Because sale prices change frequently. Mail-in rebates expire. He wanted to do the build with regular pricing.

 

Is it still a shitty build? Yeah, a bit. But if you consider, make a $1000 USD build without using any sales or MIR's, you'll find that his build is a lot closer to the mark. The cooler is still a waste, and the CPU choice is questionable, but it's at least somewhat better in that context.