New Macbook pro announced with new dimensions

[D13H4RD]

10 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Numpad is a different conversation. It makes the keyboard off center and people who heavily use numpads are better off with much cheaper laptops that includes one. Not the targeted customers, and frankly the much superior speakers are worth the loss of numpad for the intended customers. You can get type C mouses and display is also just a single adaptor (if you have a constant set of external monitor I dont see why you couldn't swap out the cable and if you're talking about projectors, most of them are VGA so you need a dongle anyway)

Okay. who is the intended customer? If it’s creative professionals, then I have a question.

 

Some here say that the numpad is “only used by those doing spreadsheets”, and that creative professionals “don’t use them”. Okay, what about the iMac Pro then? The included keyboard on the consumer tier iMac doesn’t have a numpad. Fair enough, but the professional-oriented iMac Pro’s included keyboard does have a numpad. I know that’s a desktop but surely, you’re getting my point here.

 

Now is this the end of the world? Not really. You can hook up an external numpad so it’s not a total loss, but I’ve always found the argument that creative pros “don’t use numpads” an ass-backwards thought. Yes, we don’t use the numbers function on the numpad much but when you can configure them as macros to seriously speed up workflow, then it’s a major boon to some of us especially when every little second matters.

[mr moose]

18 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Don’t forget Tesla

Do their cars not have a 3.5 or USB A? 

[RedRound2]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

Okay. who is the intended customer? If it’s creative professionals, then I have a question.

 

Some here say that the numpad is “only used by those doing spreadsheets”, and that creative professionals “don’t use them”. Okay, what about the iMac Pro then? The included keyboard on the consumer tier iMac doesn’t have a numpad. Fair enough, but the professional-oriented iMac Pro’s included keyboard does have a numpad. I know that’s a desktop but surely, you’re getting my point here.

 

Now is this the end of the world? Not really. You can hook up an external numpad so it’s not a total loss, but I’ve always found the argument that creative pros “don’t use numpads” an ass-backwards thought. Yes, we don’t use the numbers function on the numpad much but when you can configure them as macros to seriously speed up workflow, then it’s a major boon to some of us especially when every little second matters.

What? The trade off, of having the keyboard off center and the inability to add the much superior speakers the Macs have outweighs the use the numpad has. Its as simple as that.

 

iMac Pro is a desktop. There's no downsides of having a numpad on a desktop. That's what even I would prefer in a desktop because I also do heavily use the numpad if it were an option to me, everytime I enter numbers. But on a laptop, especially the macbook for what it offers in place of numpad (it either this or that), I prefer what Apple did, superior speakers and symmetrical and comfortable design layout

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

What? The trade off, of having the keyboard off center and the inability to add the much superior speakers the Macs have outweighs the use the numpad has. Its as simple as that.

 

iMac Pro is a desktop. There's no downsides of having a numpad on a desktop. That's what even I would prefer in a desktop because I also do heavily use the numpad if it were an option to me, everytime I enter numbers. But on a laptop, especially the macbook for what it offers in place of numpad (it either this or that), I prefer what Apple did, superior speakers and symmetrical and comfortable design layout

Personally, the speakers don’t matter to me. I know they sound great but I have really not cared much about laptop speakers in eons. Many of them suck anyway and I tend to use headphones when I have to do work. Much better when you have to monitor audio and such. Again, while I appreciate better speakers, I don’t find much use out of them for my workflow.

 

Macro functionality is a big deal for me. Which is why that if I bought the MBP, I’d be adding an external numpad. Simplifies the heck out of my workflow.

 

Truthfully, I hope it’s good. We’ve been deprived of a half-decent MacBook since 2016. 

[suicidalfranco]

on one hand i want to be happy and excited for it but on the other hand: 

- it's been 4 years since i last opened my macbook pro

- in those 4 years of not having a decent option to replace my mid 2012 macbook pro i've moved away from OSX

- with the move i ditched the iPhone and went Note 2 and stayed on android ever since

- i can't see myself go back to MacOS now that i know the ins and outs of Ubuntu

 

So for me, whilst ignoring other issue i may have with this one, Apple came way to late to this party

[Donut417]

13 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

Apple came way to late to this party

At least they came to the party. Im suprised of what they released here. I mean they finally said fuck the butterfly swtiches and added the ESC key back. Its almost like they kinda listen to their customers for once. 

 

I kinda want to see them refresh the 13" model. If they do that, and the price is not too bad, I might consider a mac for the first time in my life. Before some one chimes in about PC's being a better buy, Windows 10 blow chunks. Ive had nothing but issues in the past to the point I had to move my Plex server and Daily driver desktop to Linux. I keep updated on the Windows 10 updates and just see posts about people having issues after each update is released. 

 

 

[avg123]

Why does this thread go on and on about a numpad?

None of the competitors of Macbook Pro have a numpad.

Razer Blade 15, the lenovo X1 Carbon Extreme, the Dell XPS 15, the Surface Laptop 15, none of them have numpads.

 

Numpads are  not important in this segment of products.

You have to buy a 15 inch gaming laptop to get a numpad

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

At least they came to the party. Im suprised of what they released here. I mean they finally said fuck the butterfly swtiches and added the ESC key back. Its almost like they kinda listen to their customers for once. 

 

I kinda want to see them refresh the 13" model. If they do that, and the price is not too bad, I might consider a mac for the first time in my life. Before some one chimes in about PC's being a better buy, Windows 10 blow chunks. Ive had nothing but issues in the past to the point I had to move my Plex server and Daily driver desktop to Linux. I keep updated on the Windows 10 updates and just see posts about people having issues after each update is released. 

 

 

to me the only good thing that came here is the, allegedly, better cooling (i'll let the reviewers be the judge of that), which is the only thing i've been wanting them to improve since i've started buying macbooks (went from a 2006 poly macbook, to a 2007 17" MBP when i got hooked, to the mid 2012 MBP). 

 

And it took them 7 years and a half to finally try to change something in that front. Too long and too late in my book which is why i stopped using the damn thing

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, avg123 said:

Why does this thread go on and on about a numpad?

Yeah. I mean, they could just buy numpads cheaply https://www.amazon.com/s?k=numpad&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[RedRound2]

2 hours ago, avg123 said:

Why does this thread go on and on about a numpad?

None of the competitors of Macbook Pro have a numpad.

Razer Blade 15, the lenovo X1 Carbon Extreme, the Dell XPS 15, the Surface Laptop 15, none of them have numpads.

 

Numpads are  not important in this segment of products.

You have to buy a 15 inch gaming laptop to get a numpad

Because people here want/need a reason to hate on Apple. That's the entire forum in a nutshell. Look at any other positive Apple news article, you'll see what Im talking about

[RedRound2]

22 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

Personally, the speakers don’t matter to me. I know they sound great but I have really not cared much about laptop speakers in eons. Many of them suck anyway and I tend to use headphones when I have to do work. Much better when you have to monitor audio and such. Again, while I appreciate better speakers, I don’t find much use out of them for my workflow.

 

Macro functionality is a big deal for me. Which is why that if I bought the MBP, I’d be adding an external numpad. Simplifies the heck out of my workflow.

 

Truthfully, I hope it’s good. We’ve been deprived of a half-decent MacBook since 2016. 

So again, vast majority of people prefer speakers over numpad. And if you want numpad, it's easy to get one.

And you said you always use headphones due to shitty speakers. But these aren't shitty speakers and you'll find yourself without headphones for most of the use cases, if you're living by yourself. That's what happened when I moved from iPad 3, to iPad Pro 9.7 with quad speakers.

 

And someone pointing out above, none of the competitors also have a numpad. So the argument you're making against apple seems very very nitpicky, to the few people who care about it to want it enough that it needs to be built in into the laptop

[D13H4RD]

7 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And you said you always use headphones due to shitty speakers. But these aren't shitty speakers and you'll find yourself without headphones for most of the use cases, if you're living by yourself. That's what happened when I moved from iPad 3, to iPad Pro 9.7 with quad speakers.

You misunderstood my comment.

On 11/16/2019 at 4:22 PM, D13H4RD said:

Personally, the speakers don’t matter to me. I know they sound great but I have really not cared much about laptop speakers in eons. Many of them suck anyway and I tend to use headphones when I have to do work. Much better when you have to monitor audio and such. Again, while I appreciate better speakers, I don’t find much use out of them for my workflow.

I said I don't use speakers no matter how good for monitoring reasons. The reason is because I need the sound as close as possible to my ears to properly monitor them. I know the speakers on the MacBook Pro are good, I've used one. But even they are not sufficient for what I do on it. They're perfectly fine (more than that, actually) for media consumption, but even they aren't gonna cut it when you have to work with audio.

 

That's why I would trade the speakers for a numpad as I see more benefit to using a numpad than having better speakers for what I use it for. I know we aren't the majority, but who said the minority can't air their views? I know 90% of people won't and that's fine, but it's not going to stop me from airing my views.

 

(Emphasis on the "I" there BTW. This is just my preference)

10 hours ago, avg123 said:

Why does this thread go on and on about a numpad?

None of the competitors of Macbook Pro have a numpad.

Razer Blade 15, the lenovo X1 Carbon Extreme, the Dell XPS 15, the Surface Laptop 15, none of them have numpads.

 

Numpads are  not important in this segment of products.

You have to buy a 15 inch gaming laptop to get a numpad

 

On 11/16/2019 at 12:44 PM, D13H4RD said:

Now is this the end of the world? Not really. You can hook up an external numpad so it’s not a total loss, but I’ve always found the argument that creative pros “don’t use numpads” an ass-backwards thought. Yes, we don’t use the numbers function on the numpad much but when you can configure them as macros to seriously speed up workflow, then it’s a major boon to some of us especially when every little second matters.

I'm pretty sure lots of people know that and I've acknowledged it multiple times. My response was more to quell the claims that "only spreadsheet people use numpads" when a fair few of us who do other work find value in them.

 

Honestly, I'm tired of both the Apple hate brigade and the Apple Kool-Aid hype train. Assuming it holds up to claims (and bests the joke that is the 2016-2019 MBP), then I will be interested in it as a potential portable solution for on-the-go editing and such. In fact, that's why the numpad situation stuck out to me. If everything else is good, then that's really the only sticking point. It's a bit of a curse in the sense that when everything else performs well, an imperfection tends to stick out more.

 

And yes, I'm being nitpicky. And that's praise from me because I can't find anything else that's glaringly wrong that'll affect more people like the atrocious keyboard of its predecessor.

[Donut417]

11 hours ago, avg123 said:

You have to buy a 15 inch gaming laptop to get a numpad

No just a 15 inch laptop in general. Anything smaller than 15 inch they wont include one genrally and about 15 inch is where you see the full sized keyboards. But I agree, who the fuck cares about a num pad? You can buy an external one if you need it. 

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

Honestly, I'm tired of both the Apple hate brigade and the Apple Kool-Aid hype train. Assuming it holds up to claims (and bests the joke that is the 2016-2019 MBP), then I will be interested in it as a potential portable solution for on-the-go editing and such. In fact, that's why the numpad situation stuck out to me. If everything else is good, then that's really the only sticking point. It's a bit of a curse in the sense that when everything else performs well, an imperfection tends to stick out more.

 

And yes, I'm being nitpicky. And that's praise from me because I can't find anything else that's glaringly wrong that'll affect more people like the atrocious keyboard of its predecessor.

I'm with you here.  I think some people assume I have nothing but kind words for Apple, but really I'm just tired of people parroting the old, discredited anti-Apple tropes (in this thread, the "always overpriced" myth) and making it patently obvious that they haven't even touched an Apple product in years.  There are numerous things to complain about with Apple without resorting to inaccurate stereotypes.

 

The 16-inch MBP is exciting primarily because, as you pointed out, there doesn't appear to be anything major wrong with it.  The keyboard is finally good again; the trackpad was always really good; better cooling ensures the CPU lives up to its potential; battery life promises to be phenomenal for the category.  The only real drawbacks are the Touch Bar (for some -- and there's at least a physical Escape key) and a GPU that's still meant more for pro work than gaming.  And the absence of a number pad is complicated, as you suggested, since it can be a nuisance for people like you but a boon to people who want a large, centred keyboard.

[D13H4RD]

54 minutes ago, Commodus said:

The 16-inch MBP is exciting primarily because, as you pointed out, there doesn't appear to be anything major wrong with it.  The keyboard is finally good again; the trackpad was always really good; better cooling ensures the CPU lives up to its potential; battery life promises to be phenomenal for the category.  The only real drawbacks are the Touch Bar (for some -- and there's at least a physical Escape key) and a GPU that's still meant more for pro work than gaming.  And the absence of a number pad is complicated, as you suggested, since it can be a nuisance for people like you but a boon to people who want a large, centred keyboard.

My only questions right now are how well the keyboard holds up in use (I have very high hopes) alongside thermal performance in sustained loads like applying the "Enhance Details" algorithm on multiple photos in Lightroom, exporting and editing a high-bitrate 4K timeline in Resolve and working on extremely high resolution photos in Photoshop.

 

I'm not too bothered by the GPU. This isn't going to be a gaming machine for me (I don't even game much these days) and would be for editing duty. The calibrated display and potentially stellar battery life would be major appealing points. And the numpad, truthfully, is only a small matter in the grand scheme of things. USB numpads are cheap so it's not a big deal. I'd personally still trade the speakers for one but that's probably the only thing I'd change as it stands (and more would prefer having speakers, I would bet). They seem to have finally gotten everything else right. I'm not sure if the USB-C #donglelyfe still holds true now as I've been way out of the USB-C loop but since my X-T3 can do fast transfers over USB-C, not too big of a loss but I'll probably need dongles anyway. Oh well, I'd still love an included SD slot. 

 

My ideal setup costs about $3600. Has the i7, 32GB of RAM and 2TB of storage. Yeah it's expensive but I bet much of it came from the SSD. And as for why I would need 32GB of RAM, well.....Lightroom loves eating it.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, D13H4RD said:

My only questions right now are how well the keyboard holds up in use (I have very high hopes) alongside thermal performance in sustained loads like applying the "Enhance Details" algorithm on multiple photos in Lightroom, exporting and editing a high-bitrate 4K timeline in Resolve and working on extremely high resolution photos in Photoshop.

 

I'm not too bothered by the GPU. This isn't going to be a gaming machine for me (I don't even game much these days) and would be for editing duty. The calibrated display and potentially stellar battery life would be major appealing points. And the numpad, truthfully, is only a small matter in the grand scheme of things. USB numpads are cheap so it's not a big deal. I'd personally still trade the speakers for one but that's probably the only thing I'd change as it stands (and more would prefer having speakers, I would bet). They seem to have finally gotten everything else right. I'm not sure if the USB-C #donglelyfe still holds true now as I've been way out of the USB-C loop but since my X-T3 can do fast transfers over USB-C, not too big of a loss but I'll probably need dongles anyway. Oh well, I'd still love an included SD slot. 

 

My ideal setup costs about $3600. Has the i7, 32GB of RAM and 2TB of storage. Yeah it's expensive but I bet much of it came from the SSD. And as for why I would need 32GB of RAM, well.....Lightroom loves eating it.

I wonder about the keyboard and performance as well, although I did read a brief initial review that explained just how much difference the improved cooling and extra RAM meant for workloads.

 

I agree on the GPU -- it's more that I know some people will grouse that it's not using consumer graphics, as if they'll use it like a hardcore Fortnite machine.  When it comes to dongles, I'd probably just get a multi-port USB-C hub (like the Satechi one Apple sells in its store) and not worry about it.

[DrMacintosh]

I’m hoping LTT can do some comprehensive performance benchmarks in Bootcamp with the Radeon Pro 5500M 4GB/8GB when they start shipping. Nobody really has the 5500M yet and the coverage for the 5300M is pretty meh so far, haven’t seen a single test under Bootcamp. 

[D13H4RD]

5 hours ago, Commodus said:

I agree on the GPU -- it's more that I know some people will grouse that it's not using consumer graphics, as if they'll use it like a hardcore Fortnite machine.  

If gaming performance is really high on their list of requirements, then truthfully, they shouldn't be looking at MacBooks. For a while now, their hardware has never really been designed with gaming in mind, being designed more towards productivity, specifically coding and creative work. 

 

Not sure why they'd still look at them but those people would probably be better served by a gaming-oriented Windows laptop as it'd serve their needs more appropriately. 

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Windows

They look at them because Windows has gone to shit. Every update has a 50/50 chance of breaking your computer. Gaming on Linux is not 100% there yet. Though more games work on Linux then what most think. But AAA titles are still very few and far between. Ive been with Windows since 3.11 and I have stopped using it because I got sick and tired of updates fucking my computer up. I got sick and tired with the lack of control I had over updating. Which is why Ive been looking at Macs, at least for a mobile platform. While Ill do some gaming on it, most of their computers should be able to run the indie games I like the play. I have a Nintendo Swtich for more hard core gaming. 

[D13H4RD]

17 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

They look at them because Windows has gone to shit. Every update has a 50/50 chance of breaking your computer. Gaming on Linux is not 100% there yet. Though more games work on Linux then what most think. But AAA titles are still very few and far between. Ive been with Windows since 3.11 and I have stopped using it because I got sick and tired of updates fucking my computer up. I got sick and tired with the lack of control I had over updating. Which is why Ive been looking at Macs, at least for a mobile platform. While Ill do some gaming on it, most of their computers should be able to run the indie games I like the play. I have a Nintendo Swtich for more hard core gaming. 

It's not like the macOS situation is that much better. Catalina's launch wasn't exactly smooth as many Adobe CC users reported compatibility issues amongst other things. 

 

The silver lining is that unlike non-Pro Windows, you aren't forced into a new build of the OS whenever it's released, so there's that. 

 

I still maintain that they shouldn't really be looking at MacBooks if they're serious about gaming on a computer. It just wasn't designed with that in particular mind. It's why I wasn't fazed by the Radeon Pro 5500. Might not be super beefy for gaming but perfectly adequate for Lightroom and Resolve. 

[Trik'Stari]

I read half of the OP, and yet am almost certain that this device will have overheating problems as a result of poor design.

 

Odd.

[DrMacintosh]

3 hours ago, D13H4RD said:

I still maintain that they shouldn't really be looking at MacBooks if they're serious about gaming on a computer. It just wasn't designed with that in particular mind.

The 5500M is by far the most relative graphics performance that Apple has ever put into a MacBook. 

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I read half of the OP, and yet am almost certain that this device will have overheating problems as a result of poor design.

 

Odd.

The 16” MBP uses the same CPUs as the previous 2019 15” MBP. Benchmarks show that the new 16” MBP does manage to maintain higher boost clocks. 
 

Thermals are still redlining because Apple optimizes for silence, but the cooling system has been improved and manual fan control can maximize that cooling upgrade. 

[Heesleemer]

Definitely waiting for the refreshed version, I am still rocking my top end 2015 15 inch until 2020. I like where this is headed though! I hate that I'm dug in on Mac OS ecosystem for my actual work (windows at home) 

[ImAyaanKhan]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:38 AM, williamcll said:

The physical Escape key is back (hooray again!)

 

To be honest, I barely even noticed the difference once I got used to the new digital escape button on the old macbook pro, and I only used it for a day while traveling