New Macbook pro announced with new dimensions

[hishnash]

2 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

I know that T2 provides data encryption at rest but I think they don’t need a T2 for a couple of NVME SSDs in RAID0, which I think is the reason for its extremely fast read/write speeds.

Without the T2 you would be dependent on the cpu doing this. And normally if your putting your HD under heavy load for a long time your trying to do something. SSD controllers and hardware raid controllers do not provide the same level of on the fly encryption. 

[EarthWormJM2]

14 hours ago, Commodus said:

But if you're going to cry "overpriced," you need to compare using hardware that's actually close. 

First off, I am not "crying" anything, I am being very objective and non-attacking on my posts here, So lets not start making claims about each other.

They have the exact same processor option if you get i7 or i9, same speed RAM, and we don't know details of the SSD other than 512GB, very similar screens each with their own benefit (touch OLED vs better color accuracy), hell you can't get anything with a RX5500M in them yet, but performance wise it's about on par with a GTX1660Ti. you can spec both devices very similar to match up performance wise. To say those HW configs aren't close is just ignorant.

 

14 hours ago, Commodus said:

But here's the thing: they're not overpriced, or at least not as much you think they are.  Your claimed $800 price gap is based on an inherently flawed, invalid comparison.

Of course it's flawed, there isn't anything out there that is EXACTLY like the MBP 16 yet, but we all know computer components here (or most of us on these forums do) and know the relative performance of said components, and if that's going to be your issue with my comparison, then I can't ever help you here. I was just doing a rough comparison of dollar for dollar performance and it comes down to objectively costing more for the actual performance and HW you are paying for and the only difference is the OS which in my opinion is not worth the price difference. If you like MAC OS, good on ya, but you can't ignore how much they overcharge for some products, especially if you need to replace a component, but that is another issue entirely. That's the only point I am making.

[EarthWormJM2]

16 hours ago, SenKa said:

2019-5=2014. 2014 ≠ 2012

 

Not to mention developers like DosDude1 make mostly seemless patchers that work even beyond what he says they will. I have successfully ran Catalina on a 2007 Macbook with a RAM and SSD Upgrade, and it ran very well.

 

Thats a mobile C2D and nVidia 8800 mobile graphics. I would LOVE to see that on Windows 10.

Because that is what the average consumer who has a MBP would do... I get there are ways to keep old MACs running, but so are there for Windows PCs, and I'd argue it's MUCH easier to get Win10 on an olddd PC then it is to get, for example, Mojave on and old MAC (like you just pointed out with Catalina). I made this point already in one of my replies earlier. I have a 2008 Dell XPS laptop that runs win 10 with out issue as well, just added an SSD to it. We can always make these arguments and comparisons if we are going to be changing HW or customizing the boot. But I'm just going with off the shelf, everyday consumer purchases of a MAC and what most ppl would see.

..and ~5 = about,  give or take a year or 2 (no need to nitpick as that wasn't my main point)

[EarthWormJM2]

15 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

You actually factually don’t get more IO with the Razer. TB3 is far more versatile. 
 

 

You sure about that:

Or this for the Blade models:

 

Plus it has a dedicated power port and you don't need a dongle for everything, being versatile isn't always more practical

[DrMacintosh]

40 minutes ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

Plus it has a dedicated power port and you don't need a dongle for everything, being versatile isn't always more practical

Yes I am sure about that. 
 

A single Thunderbolt port can do all of the I/O work that all of the Razers dedicated ports can do. The MacBook Pro has 4 of them and can charge from any of the ports. The MacBook also has dual Thunderbolt controllers so each side of the machine gets access to the full 40gbps.

 

There simply isn’t an argument to be made that says the Razer has better I/O than the MacBook Pro. 

[EarthWormJM2]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

 

A single Thunderbolt port can do all of the I/O work that all of the Razers dedicated ports can do.

Yes it can...But with a dongle. Exactly my point. If you go somewhere and have a USB A device (which is still super common) or an hdmi/display port cable to a display or even want Ethernet since it is for 'professional' use, you need an adapter to plug it in and use it. Plus no SD card reader which is huge for content creators and professionals.

Not saying you can't do it, but you need to buy another thing which is more $$ out of your pocket just to be able to plug in something you already have.

[battlebox56]

Im currently using a 2018 Macbook pro with touchbar (The $1800 one) and plan on upgrading to the 16 inch by the time the 2020 or the 2021 macbook pros come out. I am a student who will be graduating highschool soon and I utilize the power of my macbook pro for video editing and coding.

[hishnash]

2 minutes ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

Yes it can...But with a dongle. Exactly my point. If you go somewhere and have a USB A device (which is still super common) or an hdmi/display port cable to a display or even want Ethernet since it is for 'professional' use, you need an adapter to plug it in and use it. Plus no SD card reader which is huge for content creators and professionals.

Not saying you can't do it, but you need to buy another thing which is more $$ out of your pocket just to be able to plug in something you already have.

I suppose the trade off is cooling, you can either replace the Thunderbolt3 ports with others (and reduce your options) or add more ports but have less airflow (or loader airflow) or less battery. 

given these changes affect all users negitivly, unless you make lots and lots of diffrent case options with different port permutations..

For a user that never uses an ethernet port the space needed within the device for that port is wasted and makes the produce worce for that user. 

For a user that never uses the SD card reader (and yes there are lots of such users given MBP largest user group is devleopers and they dont normally use SD cards for work) the space used is a wast.

 

[DrMacintosh]

7 minutes ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

Not saying you can't do it, but you need to buy another thing which is more $$ out of your pocket just to be able to plug in something you already have.

People have been saying that since Apple removed the Floppy Drive. Get over it. 

[Zando_]

17 hours ago, SenKa said:

Thats a mobile C2D and nVidia 8800 mobile graphics. I would LOVE to see that on Windows 10.

I had a C2D laptop ages ago, ran ubuntu 12.04 (I think I had the laptop up to 13.04 or 14.04) specifically because windows 10/8 would have been shit on it lmao. 

[Sorenson]

8 hours ago, kokakolia said:

But overall, you have a point: calling a 16 inch laptop without a numbpad "PRO" is pretty absurd. I can't live without a numbpad and all I do is basic CAD work and even more basic Excel. 

You may really like numb pad but you certainly don’t need one for excel. I’m getting my MA in accountancy and have done all of my work on a 15” MacBook Pro without a number pad. If you learn to use the number keys above the keyboard it’s almost as fast as a number pad, and you shouldn’t be entering values in every column anyways. Most of excel is done through formulas and pointing and clicking on other cells (which apple’s amazing trackpad is great at.) Most accounting professionals I meet use a 13” laptop because they are constantly traveling. 
 

Numberpad’s are great, but the inclusion of one would put the speakers on the bottom of the laptop (yuck) and provided slightly better utility for such a small number of users. 

[Blademaster91]

17 hours ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

Yes, the configurations from Razer are a little odd, clearly pre built, but the display is 144hz not 60hz. Also the 4k option from Razer is touch and OLED (MBP 16 is neither). Plus if you go that option then you are getting a wayyyy better GPU with the i9 and the price would still be several hundred less then the higher end MBP 16 with the top GPU and i9.

-snip-

I'm not sure if I would go with Razer as my first choice, with many complaints i've seen of reliability issues, although the Razer is better for the price, IMO.

The RAM and SSD not being soldered in is a benefit the Razer has, and sure the T2 chip might be great for fast storage but if it fails the Mac is a brick. The OS is really subjective, I see why someone might prefer MacOS, however I haven't had many issues with Windows 10, and with a Razer/Acer/Dell/HP I could easily switch to whatever version of Linux if I wanted to completely get away from Windows.

I wouldn't consider a laptop to be a "pro" product unless it has a USB type A port,and either an HDMI or Displayport, Ethernet is also nice to have if you want to transfer files more quickly.  It's silly to me that they couldn't include any extra ports with the 16" Macbook so you still have to carry around a bunch of dongles and hubs, and you shouldn't have to give a port to charge the laptop.

[Sorenson]

1 hour ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

You sure about that:

Or this for the Blade models:

 

Plus it has a dedicated power port and you don't need a dongle for everything, being versatile isn't always more practical

Use the razer blade 15 for 30 minutes on your lap and then get back to us about how comparable it is to a Mac book pro. 

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It's silly to me that they couldn't include any extra ports with the 16" Macbook so you still have to carry around a bunch of dongles and hubs, and you shouldn't have to give a port to charge the laptop.

I think you forget that Apple consulted Pros when they were working on this MacBook. But Apple has taking a stance on adding back dedicated ports. 

 

In short, it just does not make sense for the purpose of future expand-ability. Having dedicated ports locks down and limits the machine where as an array of ports with massive overhead are a lot harder to make obsolete. 

[Radioactive Snowman]

19 hours ago, EarthWormJM2 said:

Same spec laptop from Razer (with a GTX 1660 ti instead of a RX5500M, basically the same card give or take), but $800 cheaper and you get more IO and HW features. Hmmmmm come'on apple. 

 

 

Even looks very similar if aesthetic is what you are going for:

 

Also, $800 additional (on top of what you are already paying for 16GB) to upgrade to 64GB of RAM!?! WTH is Apple smoking!

 

 

...And I'm sure I'll hear the MAC OS argument... it's just an OS, not worth all that premium, especially when Apple won't support it at all after ~5 years.

 

Razers QC leaves much to be desired while apple is pretty much the gold standard, thats worth the extra to me 

[Drak3]

Just now, Radioactive Snowman said:

apple is pretty much the gold standard

I wouldn't consider Apple the gold standard.

[Blademaster91]

16 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Use the razer blade 15 for 30 minutes on your lap and then get back to us about how comparable it is to a Mac book pro. 

The macbook pro would still burn your lap because Apple doesn't know how to design a cooling solution sufficient enough for a cpu+gpu workload.

[Radioactive Snowman]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I wouldn't consider Apple the gold standard.

They aren't far off it and compared to Razer its not even a competition

[Drak3]

Just now, Radioactive Snowman said:

They aren't far off it and compared to Razer its not even a competition

I'd put the high end thin and lights from Dell and HP above Apple, and if we step outside of thin and lights, I'd rank MSI higher as well.

[EarthWormJM2]

42 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

People have been saying that since Apple removed the Floppy Drive. Get over it. 

...Great customer service there. "Why should I have to pay extra for something thats a standard everywhere else?"  ... "get over it, thats how it is here"   ...smh lol. And i wasn't even trying to be rude on snide on here lol

[Sorenson]

9 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The macbook pro would still burn your lap because Apple doesn't know how to design a cooling solution sufficient enough for a cpu+gpu workload.

I’m talking about basic web browsing and Microsoft office work. Apple products, and laptops with 15w processors are the only laptops I’ve been able to use on my lap comfortably without burning my legs.
 

If you’ve never experienced it go to your local bestbuy, touch the keyboard deck of the razerblade 15, and then compare it to the keyboard deck of the MacBook Pro. Spec sheets don’t give you the whole story when comparing devices. Also Apple apparently improved the cooling in this one.

[EarthWormJM2]

47 minutes ago, hishnash said:

I suppose the trade off is cooling, you can either replace the Thunderbolt3 ports with others (and reduce your options) or add more ports but have less airflow (or loader airflow) or less battery. 

given these changes affect all users negitivly, unless you make lots and lots of diffrent case options with different port permutations..

For a user that never uses an ethernet port the space needed within the device for that port is wasted and makes the produce worce for that user. 

For a user that never uses the SD card reader (and yes there are lots of such users given MBP largest user group is devleopers and they dont normally use SD cards for work) the space used is a wast.

 

Yes. All that makes perfect sense for the MB or MBA, but this is supposed to be a "pro" device aimed at professionals. So the target audience isn't supposed to be your average user, that's why they have the other models.

[dizmo]

5 hours ago, Twilight said:

that comes down to personal preference. I hate having a numbed on a laptop because then my right wrist is always at an angle when typing, and I find that really annoying. 

Why wouldn't you just shift slightly to the left... 

[EarthWormJM2]

45 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm not sure if I would go with Razer as my first choice

I probably wouldn't either, but their "buy it now" page is simplified very much like Apples, so that is why I used it as it had that simplified user buying process. The insane amount of options from Dell/HP tend to be overwhelming for the average user lol

[EarthWormJM2]

44 minutes ago, Sorenson said:

Use the razer blade 15 for 30 minutes on your lap and then get back to us about how comparable it is to a Mac book pro. 

We haven't really had many reviews of the MBP 16 yet, so you may wanna wait and see before saying that, the last MBP with an i9 in it had hella thermal issues. lol.

But heat is common on laptops especially if you start cramming high end components in them...