Mac Pro 2019: dual-GPU cards ARE BACK!!! :D

[Results45]

As Linus started talking about here, the new Mac Pro is OUT!

 

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/6/3/18651208/apple-mac-pro-how-much-top-spec-price-estimate-ballpark

 

Spoiler

On 6/3/2019 at 9:28 AM, VegetableStu said:

Afterparty EDIT: okay there's probably only one thing you'd be interested in:

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/

 

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils-powerful-all-new-mac-pro-and-groundbreaking-pro-display-xdr/

 

 

Also let's not forget:

• AMD Vega II Pro Duo collaterally announced for the Mac Pro. no indication if there'd be a mainstream release

 

anyone who wants to round up this entire thing.... yeah go ahead and make other threads, there's just too much for me right now ,_,

 

.

https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/

 

 

Sure it's got a $6000-$45,000 price tag, a 28-core Xeon, and Swiss-cheese thermals, but the thing that got me like HOLY SH!T on the inside was this: the QUAD Radeon Pro Vega IIs.

Yes my friends, Apple managed to stuff a pair of dual-GPU, 64GB, 28.18 TFLOP, 475W cards each equivalent if not slightly more powerful than TWO Radeon VIIs (13.44 TFLOPS) or RTX 2080TIs (13.45 TFLOPS) inside a standard ATX-sized case.

 

EDIT: It seems like AMD developed the Vega II Pro Duo by creating a dual-GPU version of their Radeon Instinct MI60.

 

Other high-end graphics cards for comparison:

Spoiler

Nvidia:

• [14.13 TFLOPS] Tesla V100 32GB (accelerator/machine-learning)
• [16.31 TFLOPS] Quadro RTX 8000
• [16.31 TFLOPS] Quadro RTX 6000
• [11.15 TFLOPS] Quadro RTX 5000
• [12.63 TFLOPS] Quadro P6000
• [16.31 TFLOPS] TITAN RTX
• [14.9 TFLOPS] TITAN V
• [10.97 TFLOPS] Titan X Pascal
• [13.45 TFLOPS] RTX 2080TI
• [10.07 TFLOPS] RTX 2080
• [11.34 TFLOPS] GTX 1080TI

 

AMD:

• [28.18 TFLOPS] Radeon Pro Vega II Duo (Mac Pro 2019)
• [24.58 TFLOPS] Radeon Instinct MI25 MxGPU (accelerator/machine-learning)
• [14.75 TFLOPS] Radeon Instinct MI60 (accelerator/machine-learning)
• [12.29 TFLOPS] Radeon Instinct MI25 (accelerator/machine-learning)
• [13.11 TFLOPS] Radon Vega Frontier Edition
• [12.29 TFLOPS] Radeon Pro WX 9100
• [10.75 TFLOPS] Radeon Pro 8200
• [13.44 TFLOPS] Radeon VII
• [12.58 TFLOPS] Vega 64
• [10.57 TFLOPS] Vega 56
• [21.14 TFLOPS] Radeon Pro V340 (for AWS AppStream 2.0, Google Stadia, and the AMD/Cray Frontier supercomputer?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.amd.com/en/graphics/workstation-virtual-graphics

https://www.servethehome.com/amd-radeon-pro-v340-dual-vega-32gb-vdi-solution-launched/

https://www.cdw.com/product/hpe-amd-radeon-pro-v340-graphics-accelerator/5293143

.

 

 

To put things into perspective we have a 205W Xeon 3275M or 255W Xeon 3175X equivalent CPU, up to 950 watts of graphics cards, and another 300W of headroom which means a tricked out config needs a 1,500W PSU.

 

 

More info ~ credits to @VegetableStu (WWDC 2019 Livethread)

Spoiler

.

On 6/3/2019 at 11:18 AM, VegetableStu said:

NEW MAC PRO

feel free to call it the cheesegrater pro 2, lol

• vertical shell exterior
• fully ATX-like modularity
• intel Xeon 28-core....?? wait is this that CPU?!
  • 8-core (4.0 boost) Xeon-W up to 28-core (4.4 boost)
  • 300W
  • ECC 2933mhz RAM
  • 6-channel 12 slots
• PCIe slots
  • 4 single-slot (first slot half length)
  • 4-dual slot
• dual 10Gbe
• MPX modules: new GPU PCIe interface derivative
  • new tab behind x16 interface contacts
  • radeon 580X
  • Vega II
  • VEGA II PRO DUO
    • up to two supported
  • infinity fabric inter-GPU interconnect
• Afterburner PCIe video accelerator
  • 3 8K streams
  • 12 4K streams
• 1400W PSU
• front to back airflow
• optional wheels. yes. this thing is a giant cartable cheesegrater
• hardware/software support from various media production vendors
• rack-version later
• starts at $5999 (lol i highly doubt with those  specs, LOL)

now with 6K cheesegrater pro-themed displays ._.

• Thunderbolt 3
• HDR (they do mean it)
  • "Pro Display XDR"
• 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio
• P3-Wide, 10-bit
• 1000 nits constant (1600 nits peak)
• 32" 6016xOMG SOMETHING SLOW DOWN PEOPLE resolution
  • 6016x3384
  • 60hz
• on-glass textured matting (separate option)
• localised backlight array
• active cooling to extend display life
• counterbalanced arm and rotation
  • VESA mount sold separately(?)
• $4999 base model
• STAND SOLD SEPARATELY APPARENTLY?!
  • think i misheard pricing. gonna update later
  • HOLY CRAP $999?!?!?! ARE YOU GUYS DYSON OR SOMETHING?

 

post EDIT: official press release

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-unveils-powerful-all-new-mac-pro-and-groundbreaking-pro-display-xdr/

.

 

 

It's definitely nice to see Apple cram as much off-the-shelf top spec hardware as they can in to an ATX-sized system and the professional/ultra-enthusiast world is be better off for it.  

[Princess Luna]

Yeah... no thanks, I still prefer good and old DYI with an i9 and a TITAN for the price.

[Rune]

I hope the OEM goes rogue and sells the cards a la carte. Maybe with some sort of adapter....

[Results45]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

I hope the OEM goes rogue and sells the cards a la carte. Maybe with some sort of adapter....

 

Despite this being part of an April Fools 'leak', if Intel even remotely sticks to a tiled approach for their "Xe" dGPUs we might see news of an on-par $6000 single-card GPU by next year (assuming they're on schedule to ship in 2021) 

 

Spoiler

.

[Đỗ Đức Huy]

Calling it now, maxed out Mac will be closer to 100K $ than 50K $. Just the 1.5TB of ram alone could cost 24K at bargain basement prices.

[Drak3]

I just wish they would come out with a more budget oriented model that rocked a hexacore and more modest GPU solution.

[ScratchCat]

1 hour ago, Results45 said:

optional wheels. yes. this thing is a giant cartable cheesegrater

[Deli]

What kind of applications require 1.5TB RAM?

[Fnige]

6 minutes ago, Deli said:

What kind of applications require 1.5TB RAM?

chrome (even then it may not be enough)

[Results45]

58 minutes ago, ScratchCat said:

 

Working cheese grater sleeper build?

 

Spoiler

Mac Pro guise!!

 

Here's another great meme I just came across:

 

 

50 minutes ago, Deli said:

What kind of applications require 1.5TB RAM?

 

A surprising number of practical applications:

• 1000+ Chrome tabs or hundreds of simultaneously playing videos (for machine learning?)
• Partitioning large amounts of RAM as a volatile data storage drive (aka "RAM Drive")
• Running many operating systems, heavy programs, or games at once (25 gamers/editors on one PC?)
• Game development ~ like running UE4 Editor, a ray or path tracer, a alpha build of your game in-client, Chrome, Skype, Spotify, and a couple dozen other collaboration/productivity programs at the same time.
• Home server or workstation

 

Of course with that many DIMM slots, multiple terabytes of Intel Optane would also be an option if Apple ever decides to support it.

[Vordreller]

Bumped into this, gonna link it here:

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/bwie2f/why_apple_users_think_you_cant_build_a_gaming_pc/epy9vap/

 

Quoting the person who wrote it(for some reason the forum's quote feature is messing up the layout of this text big time if I just paste it in there):

 

Unpopular take (on the monitor, not on the stand, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous): If - and this is a BIG if - the XDR monitor is as good as Apple claims, $5k is not only a very good price, but almost certainly a game changer for digital cinema.

 

The Sony reference monitor that Apple compared the XDR to is the BVM-X300, one of only a select handful of professional reference color grading monitors that, at the time I'm writing this, has the capability of displaying Rec.2020 / P3 (the color spaces of HDR variants like Dolby Vision) in full. The price of the monitor (which ranges from $15k to $45k, depending on availability) and the scarcity of monitors like it make investing in HDR finishing very cost prohibitive to small and medium size post production houses, most of which opt for top of the line Rec.709 (TV color space) OLED reference monitors like the AM and CM line from FSI, which range from $5k to $15k.

 

If Apple TRULY has made a reference calibur monitor for $5k, that is a huge deal. What's currently holding back independent cinema from being able to finish in Dolby Vision and HDR-10 is the cost of entry, and this kind of deep drop in price for such a monitor is almost certainly bound to force other manufacturers to follow suit in order to compete.

 

What will ultimately be the determining factor is the colorimetry data that calibration specialists find by probing the monitor once it's released. The fact that Blackmagic Design (the makers of Davinci Resolve, currently the most accessible and popular color grading application) has partnered with Apple to support the XDR and the new Mac Pro, and that they were willing to supply an image of a full Resolve setup running 3 XDRs, is encouraging. Only time and the data will tell.

 

[Trik'Stari]

The poll is missing the "I'd rather build my own PC with better specifications and performance, for less money" option.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Trik'Stari said:

The poll is missing the "I'd rather build my own PC with better specifications and performance, for less money" option.

While that holds true for the consumer market, once you hit enterprise, a market that values features like ECC RAM, this stops being outrageously overpriced (for an Intel based PC).

 

Though, I do hope for a Zen 2 based derivative next generation. If for no other reason, to make AMD based hackintoshes easier.

[teenage_club]

12 hours ago, Drak3 said:

While that holds true for the consumer market, once you hit enterprise, a market that values features like ECC RAM, this stops being outrageously overpriced (for an Intel based PC).

 

Though, I do hope for a Zen 2 based derivative next generation. If for no other reason, to make AMD based hackintoshes easier.

finally someone says it. its really tiring seeing all of the dudes on pcmasterrace that fail to understand why an enterprise-grade machine would cost so much (except for the monitor stand lol)

[Drak3]

Just now, teenage_club said:

finally someone says it. its really tiring seeing all of the dudes on pcmasterrace that fail to understand why an enterprise-grade machine would cost so much (except for the monitor stand lol)

That leaves a glaring issue though, there is little offering on the prosumer market. People that need more than the iMac or Mac Mini but don't need the iMac Pro or Mac Pro. Many people, me included, take issue with that.

[Misanthrope]

17 hours ago, Vordreller said:

Bumped into this, gonna link it here:

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/bwie2f/why_apple_users_think_you_cant_build_a_gaming_pc/epy9vap/

 

Quoting the person who wrote it(for some reason the forum's quote feature is messing up the layout of this text big time if I just paste it in there):

 

Unpopular take (on the monitor, not on the stand, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous): If - and this is a BIG if - the XDR monitor is as good as Apple claims, $5k is not only a very good price, but almost certainly a game changer for digital cinema.

 

The Sony reference monitor that Apple compared the XDR to is the BVM-X300, one of only a select handful of professional reference color grading monitors that, at the time I'm writing this, has the capability of displaying Rec.2020 / P3 (the color spaces of HDR variants like Dolby Vision) in full. The price of the monitor (which ranges from $15k to $45k, depending on availability) and the scarcity of monitors like it make investing in HDR finishing very cost prohibitive to small and medium size post production houses, most of which opt for top of the line Rec.709 (TV color space) OLED reference monitors like the AM and CM line from FSI, which range from $5k to $15k.

 

If Apple TRULY has made a reference calibur monitor for $5k, that is a huge deal. What's currently holding back independent cinema from being able to finish in Dolby Vision and HDR-10 is the cost of entry, and this kind of deep drop in price for such a monitor is almost certainly bound to force other manufacturers to follow suit in order to compete.

 

What will ultimately be the determining factor is the colorimetry data that calibration specialists find by probing the monitor once it's released. The fact that Blackmagic Design (the makers of Davinci Resolve, currently the most accessible and popular color grading application) has partnered with Apple to support the XDR and the new Mac Pro, and that they were willing to supply an image of a full Resolve setup running 3 XDRs, is encouraging. Only time and the data will tell.

 

 

I honestly don't think anybody has an issue with the 5k monitor being 5k bucks. Even if Apple are over-selling it's capabilities as a high grade professional reference monitor (I can almost guarantee that will be the case) It's still fairly ok for a high end workstation for design. It's not a reference monitor sure but for smaller time pros and such I think it will probably be ok.

 

The 1000 bucks for a VESA stand however, that shit's just hilarious no matter how you put it.

[Results45]

15 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

The poll is missing the "I'd rather build my own PC with better specifications and performance, for less money" option.

Does the 3rd option not include "all of the above" (anything but buying a Mac Pro)?

[WereCat]

not enough options in the poll

 

I don't intend to buy the MacPro.

I find it extremely expensive, but I have to admit, this looks really good. I'm definitely not the targeted customer for this. 

I really like the new display though. 

[Commodus]

If I were a pro media editor, definitely.  Handling 8K video that smoothly and quickly is a big plus, and it's very good for many-track audio as well.

 

As for what I do, which mostly involves writing and photo editing -- I can't justify it.  With that said, I would snap one up if I had a cash windfall, if partly for the baller status.  I'd get a different display, mind you.  I don't need to spend $5K-plus on a reference-quality monitor I wouldn't appreciate.

[Trik'Stari]

4 hours ago, Results45 said:

Does the 3rd option not include "all of the above" (anything but buying a Mac Pro)?

As far as I'm seeing it's "I'll wait 4 years for average hardware to catch up" which is as inaccurate statement as I've ever seen.

 

Hell, if you go simply off their phones, Apple is 10years+ behind the times. If you measure their products by thermal performance, longevity, and actual performance, they're completely freaking retarded.

 

Although it would seem their user base is almost equally mentally challenged, based on the fact that they keep buying things from a company that straight up lies to them to almost the point of class action lawsuit grounds. How some lawyer hasn't started one is beyond me.

[Deli]

Very sad, the only item I can afford is the monitor stand....

[Paparachipupopep]

I see some outrage at option 3, I'm guessing what the OP means is that you'll wait 4 years until laptops like this match, or more likely beat the base Mac Pro, or comparable desktops are at or under $1,000 USD. I don't think you'll even need 4 years though, I'd say by the end of 2021. Linus nicely points out in his recent video that those base specs are just puny, especially for the price.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Paparachipupopep said:

Linus nicely points out in his recent video that those base specs are just puny, especially for the price.

And? Linus has no concept of why the specific parts are expensive, who values the features that machines like the Mac Pro brings to the table (FYI, Dell and HP offer VERY similarly spec'd machines), or the target market of the machine.

[mr moose]

I don't see a cheese grater, I see a retro vented industrial enclosure from the 50's with panel handles.   It just needs a large amp meter with styled pointer.

 

 

[missed_sla]

Haven't had the chance to watch the hands-on video yet, but I saw the reaction video. To my knowledge, the CPU used is not an LGA-2066 Skylake. It's supposed to be an LGA-3647 Cascade lake. Probably the W-3223, if their spec of 3.5 GHz is accurate. Which honestly makes it worse for the price, because a W-2145 is close to $1200, but the W-3223 is reported to cost $749. https://fuse.wikichip.org/news/2400/intel-rolls-out-cascade-lake-xeon-w-processors/

 

The W-3225 is closer to the price of the W-2145, but that brings me to a question of why an extra 0.2 GHz in base clock is worth nearly double the price. The whole thing brings me to the question of why Apple chose the Xeon at all, given the massive price advantage of Threadripper. My guess is it's either contractually required to use Intel, or they're designing for AVX-512 workloads.