Siemens eHighway

[alextulu]

So, I was on the autobahn in Germany, and saw some overhead lines being built, like the ones for trains.

 

Turns out it was this: https://www.siemens.com/global/en/home/products/mobility/road-solutions/electromobility/ehighway.html

 

Quote

The eHighway system is based on a safe and proven infrastructure to provide a continuous energy supply to heavy commercial vehicles. It can be integrated and operated within the existing road infrastructure without significant effort and combines the efficiency of electrified railroads with the flexibility of trucks, halving energy consumption while maintaining full mobility. 

Quote

On electrified routes, the electric motors in eHighway trucks are powered via the overhead contact lines and the active pantograph. For remaining sections of road, the eHighway truck has a hybrid drive.

Unlike the Tesla truck, with this one you don't have to worry about range.

 

Edit: Found some more info: https://www.electrive.com/2017/12/19/construction-kick-start-first-ehighway-electric-trucks-germany/

Quote

Building works have started on Germany’s first electric highway that will see electric trucks run along overhead wires, thus charging dynamically. The technology comes from Siemens.

 

The state of Hesse has secured the first stretch of the so-called eHighway that will run on the A5 Autobahn between Langen/Mörfelden and Weiterstadt once construction is complete by the end of 2018. The entire project is paid for with 15 million euros from the Ministry of the Environment (BMUB).

This is the one that I saw.

 

Also, here's a test drive:

 

[LienusLateTips]

What I've been dreaming myself since I was a small little kid.

[FunkmastaFlex]

This is cool.

[FloRolf]

On which Autobahn was it? Because I've never seen that, lol. 

[TigerHawk]

I mean I am all for this idea but this is just transferring the pollution from the truck to the power station, so unless the power station supplying the lines is super clean, its not as great as the advertisements make it out to be. I am pretty cynical, though. I also don't know what kind of power stations Germany is using these days(fossil fuels, solar, nuclear, etc)

I feel like if there was as much money pushing the oil industry as their was pushing the renewable resources industry, things would be way better than they are right now.

Wind farms take up way too much land area and come with their own problems(destructive to wild life)
Solar farms are incredibly inefficient even in the best of conditions(IIRC only 3% of sunlight is converted to usable energy, the rest is lost as heat? maybe its 30% not 3 but silicon panels are horribly inefficient)
Nuclear seems to be pretty efficient and environment friendly, until it comes time to dispose of the spent fuel rods or an incident happens.
Any progress harnessing tidal energy? Would that harm sealife?
Fusion always seems to be "10-15 years away" to the point that I feel like its not gonna happen in this century anymore.

So unless you have access to a really nice hydroelectric plant, you are SOL on "green energy" really.

[alextulu]

1 minute ago, FloRolf said:

On which Autobahn was it? Because I've never seen that, lol. 

Near Frankfurt.

[Bouzoo]

14 minutes ago, TigerHawk said:

I mean I am all for this idea but this is just transferring the pollution from the truck to the power station, so unless the power station supplying the lines is super clean, its not as great as the advertisements make it out to be. I am pretty cynical, though. I also don't know what kind of power stations Germany is using these days(fossil fuels, solar, nuclear, etc)

That is technically the truth, but what we are ignoring currently is the power for oil platforms, transportation of oil in all directions, refinery pollution, etc. They all pollute air. I don't wanna go and research how much that is since I probably can't find all numbers, but this is really a complicated topic.

[Guest]

overhead contact lines on a highway? someone was a bit cooked when designing this lol - and for a max speed of only 90?

[alextulu]

3 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

for a max speed of only 90?

In Germany the max speed for trucks is 90 anyway.

[Natsoup]

24 minutes ago, TigerHawk said:

I mean I am all for this idea but this is just transferring the pollution from the truck to the power station, so unless the power station supplying the lines is super clean, its not as great as the advertisements make it out to be. I am pretty cynical, though. I also don't know what kind of power stations Germany is using these days(fossil fuels, solar, nuclear, etc)

I feel like if there was as much money pushing the oil industry as their was pushing the renewable resources industry, things would be way better than they are right now.

Wind farms take up way too much land area and come with their own problems(destructive to wild life)
Solar farms are incredibly inefficient even in the best of conditions(IIRC only 3% of sunlight is converted to usable energy, the rest is lost as heat? maybe its 30% not 3 but silicon panels are horribly inefficient)
Nuclear seems to be pretty efficient and environment friendly, until it comes time to dispose of the spent fuel rods or an incident happens.
Any progress harnessing tidal energy? Would that harm sealife?
Fusion always seems to be "10-15 years away" to the point that I feel like its not gonna happen in this century anymore.

So unless you have access to a really nice hydroelectric plant, you are SOL on "green energy" really.

I thought like this for a while, like electric cars were stupid because then the emissions would just be from the power plant. But someone pointed out to me that just about any modern power station is going to be significantly more efficient than a tiny car motor, or relatively tiny truck motor in this case.

[suicidalfranco]

so... a train... with a much smaller load

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, alextulu said:

In Germany the max speed for trucks is 90 anyway.

Not really the point. Electric vehicles to be presented as the future must be a more attractive option, not worse. To get people to like it, it must be more transportable and more powerful than combustion. Tesla has got it right for their haulers. There needs to be more incentive to use them, this is just current technology, not the future. Lazy ideas.

[mynameisjuan]

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

so... a train... with a much smaller load

Exactly what I was going to say. 

[alextulu]

31 minutes ago, TigerHawk said:

I also don't know what kind of power stations Germany is using these days(fossil fuels, solar, nuclear, etc)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany

Quote

Germany has been called "the world's first major renewable energy economy". Renewable energy in Germany is mainly based on wind, solar and biomass. Germany had the world's largest photovoltaic installed capacity until 2014, and as of 2016, it is third with 40 GW. It is also the world's third country by installed wind power capacity, at 50 GW, and second for offshore wind, with over 4 GW.

Quote

The share of renewable electricity rose from just 3.4% of gross electricity consumption in 1990 to exceed 10% by 2005, 20% by 2011 and 30% by 2015, reaching 36.2% of consumption by year end 2017

 

[HarryNyquist]

This is kinda neat. Though I have to wonder what the voltage is. Unlike power lines alongside a road, overhead lines have to be bare to make contact with the pantograph itself.

 

I hope the system is robust enough to have GFCI circuitry somewhere to cut power in the case of a storm or something similarly catastrophic..

[ManIkWeet]

Those copper powerlines will be stolen exactly like the powerlines for trains...

[S w a t s o n]

1 hour ago, RorzNZ said:

overhead contact lines on a highway? someone was a bit cooked when designing this lol - and for a max speed of only 90?

90km/h limit for engaging or disengaging the pantograph

 

this idea is dumb though, you dont have to worry about range but you have to worry about the highway having this in place, as soon as you have to go on a different highway or go onto roads it's just a hybrid truck. Full electric would have been nice to see with this pantograph idea as a way to charge while driving.

[Trixanity]

1 hour ago, RorzNZ said:

Not really the point. Electric vehicles to be presented as the future must be a more attractive option, not worse. To get people to like it, it must be more transportable and more powerful than combustion. Tesla has got it right for their haulers. There needs to be more incentive to use them, this is just current technology, not the future. Lazy ideas.

>Only 90? That sucks

>90 is the speed limit

>That's beside the point

>Wut

 

The power lines are the only way to give range to electric vehicles with current battery technology. Fast charging still isn't fast enough and battery swapping isn't feasible.

 

This is basically an environmental push and it achieves that. With the right tax incentives, TCO and company profile you could be looking at a very attractive offering. It's probably a pretty expensive infrastructure investment and the success is questionable.

[Tam3n]

This would have been cool maybe 10 years ago....

[LienusLateTips]

1 hour ago, HarryNyquist said:

This is kinda neat. Though I have to wonder what the voltage is. Unlike power lines alongside a road, overhead lines have to be bare to make contact with the pantograph itself.

 

I hope the system is robust enough to have GFCI circuitry somewhere to cut power in the case of a storm or something similarly catastrophic..

Trolleybuses are similar I believe, except using trolley poles instead of pantographs. I'd assume there would be similar protections on this.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

>Only 90? That sucks

>90 is the speed limit

>That's beside the point

>Wut

 

The power lines are the only way to give range to electric vehicles with current battery technology. Fast charging still isn't fast enough and battery swapping isn't feasible.

 

This is basically an environmental push and it achieves that. With the right tax incentives, TCO and company profile you could be looking at a very attractive offering. It's probably a pretty expensive infrastructure investment and the success is questionable.

1) Why settle for the current speed when EV's can go faster and more safely.

2) Why use current technology when people should think long-term, only silly people invest in short-term stratagies. Once infrastucture like this is up, it can take decades to take it down. It's essentially a train. A truck with tracks. Literally someone took a look at trams and thought why not make it bigger. Lazy designing. What we need is solid and efficient EV's, not a train. Trucks are made to transport goods anywhere by road - what about to other countries in the EU, or to areas without the rails? Too many restrictions assuming they use current batteries (and if they use batteries to rival Tesla's - what would be the need for the rails?)

3) It's not even that great environmentally. It's not as efficient as you would think. This is what happens when you use a businessman to do a scientists job. If you have tax incentives and all that nonsense to attract people to alternative technology, then it remains just an alternative. 

[Brooksie359]

1 hour ago, RorzNZ said:

Not really the point. Electric vehicles to be presented as the future must be a more attractive option, not worse. To get people to like it, it must be more transportable and more powerful than combustion. Tesla has got it right for their haulers. There needs to be more incentive to use them, this is just current technology, not the future. Lazy ideas.

Seeing as most places don't allow speeds over that anyways and electric motors far out class internal combustion motors when it comes to acceleration there is no reason to say electric cars are strictly better for driving. If you are racing then yeah go ahead and use a gas engine but for everything else that extra speed means literally nothing especially when you realize acceleration is what makes a car feel powerful anyways. 

[mr moose]

Yes it will be more efficient than both combustion and battery powered vehicles.  These trucks don't need batteries which will significantly reduce the environmental impact, regenerative breaking puts excess power back into the grid for other trucks rather than into a loss situation charging batteries. Speed is irrelevant for most haulage situations as the 90Kph figure is an artificial limit (local law) not a technological one (an electric truck can easily go faster than 90Kph if they wanted to).

 

I see no reason not to trial it.  So far it is one of the better solutions to pollution I have encountered. 

 

EDIT: also someone mentioned fail safes, In Australian the only lines that are insulated are the ones running directly to a dwelling, all other overheads (most of Australia)  are bare metal.  Fail safes are easy to build in for just about any power level.

[Trixanity]

26 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

1) Why settle for the current speed when EV's can go faster and more safely.

2) Why use current technology when people should think long-term, only silly people invest in short-term stratagies. Once infrastucture like this is up, it can take decades to take it down. It's essentially a train. A truck with tracks. Literally someone took a look at trams and thought why not make it bigger. Lazy designing. What we need is solid and efficient EV's, not a train. Trucks are made to transport goods anywhere by road - what about to other countries in the EU, or to areas without the rails? Too many restrictions assuming they use current batteries (and if they use batteries to rival Tesla's - what would be the need for the rails?)

3) It's not even that great environmentally. It's not as efficient as you would think. This is what happens when you use a businessman to do a scientists job. If you have tax incentives and all that nonsense to attract people to alternative technology, then it remains just an alternative. 

I don't think they'll change the speed limit for electric trucks anytime soon.

 

In theory you could use highways as recharging stations for electric vehicles. Right now there is in infrastructure problem for electric vehicles in general. This is one way of doing it and without stopping too. It sounds to me like the dream scenario for the transportation business.

 

The image says it's designed for hybrids so it's essentially a reduction in fossil fuel usage but if used for recharging a battery it could extend the effective range of a pure electric.

 

It would obviously have to prove itself to receive widespread adoption.

 

Pretty much any significant environmental proposal requires tax incentives to work. Environmental  concerns are usually bad for business one way or another.

 

Ultimately the current idea is pretty stupid if it runs on diesel when in the city because that's where it'll kill the most people.

[Maslofski]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

so... a train... with a much smaller load

a dynamic train. the taxi to the bus