Anybody been following the Syrian Civil War?

[Okjoek]

I'm not sure exactly how lenient the mods here are about current military situations, I remember back when the Coup was happening in Turkey we had a thread about that and it went unrestricted so I hope I'm alright.

Prior to the start of the conflict I spent a lot of time watching documentaries and reading books about many historic battles namely the world wars. I don't take it for granted that I can basically watch one unfold on the internet. I only really started watching after the Russians began aiding the Syrian government forces back when Islamic State was at the gates of Damascus. Around the time of the first liberation of the ancient city of Palmyra I found this website which has an interactive map with current events pinned on it.

 

https://syriancivilwarmap.com/

The big events going on right now are pretty much centered around the Syrian Arab Army's advance deep into rebel held territory in Idlib province. They've reached the city of Abu ad Duhur and have split the rebel forces of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (don't ask me how to pronounce some of these things) into several not quite cut-off pockets along with the remnants of Islamic State's forces in that region.

 

One thing I'm curious/nervous about is reports as of 1/12 that within days Turkey plans another offensive into north-western Syria against the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces). Coming from me who's viewing the conflict in favor of the legitimate Syrian Government under the leadership of Bashar al-Assad this sounds like Turkey trying to seize territory for itself in the fear that they now see the rebels(that are at the very least not hostile to Turkey) are losing vast swathes of territory to the advances of a now battle hardened SAA.

[Canada EH]

Nope, to most if not all North Americans, its just white noise. Same with Afghanastan and Iraq. I do not even watch movies anymore that have to do with iraq war or current. Now Vietnam is cool and the World Wars are cool to watch. When the news come on and there is something about a ISIS or AlQueida, I just switch the channel for a few minues then come back the the news.

[Okjoek]

18 minutes ago, Canada EH said:

Nope, to most if not all North Americans, its just white noise. Same with Afghanastan and Iraq. I do not even watch movies anymore that have to do with iraq war or current. Now Vietnam is cool and the World Wars are cool to watch. When the news come on and there is something about a ISIS or AlQueida, I just switch the channel for a few minues then come back the the news.

It can be easy to forget due to just how far away it is.

Kind of reminds me of how Americans behaved prior to our entry into WWII.

[Tocsin_786]

1 hour ago, Okjoek said:

It can be easy to forget due to just how far away it is.

Kind of reminds me of how Americans behaved prior to our entry into WWII.

That is a very nice relation. I didn't even think about how similarly we are following the war compared to WW2. 

[Donut417]

I dont even watch the news. Because either its about some dead body found in a burn down house in Detroit. Or some Hollywood actor being accused of sexual harassment. Then you have President Trump calling other countries "Shit Holes", you him and the president of North Korea playing the game of "Who has the bigger Nuclear button". We got the 1% trying to take more from the 99%. We got a war on the poor people, we got a war on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social security. Then we gotta hear about US bombs blowing up something in another part of the world where innocent people ended up dieing. Personally the news is depressing. Like most Americans all I can do is worry about myself and my family. Because frankly, most of those issues are out of my hands. 

[Okjoek]

7 hours ago, Donut417 said:

I dont even watch the news. Because either its about some dead body found in a burn down house in Detroit. Or some Hollywood actor being accused of sexual harassment. Then you have President Trump calling other countries "Shit Holes", you him and the president of North Korea playing the game of "Who has the bigger Nuclear button". We got the 1% trying to take more from the 99%. We got a war on the poor people, we got a war on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social security. Then we gotta hear about US bombs blowing up something in another part of the world where innocent people ended up dieing. Personally the news is depressing. Like most Americans all I can do is worry about myself and my family. Because frankly, most of those issues are out of my hands. 

Yeah. we definitely have a lot of our own problems. I'm not sure we've seen wealth distribution this polarized in a very long time. Reminds me of the "gilded age" where all the representatives were bought out by the monopolies.

 

Back on topic. I just feel I should be ignoring important news like this. It's easy to be driven away by the garbage like the sexual assault allegations by women who have waited 20 years too long to come forward and the president's bad case of food-in-mouth. However I worry that we are going to underestimate the geopolitics behind this war and how I feel it still has a lot of potential to flare up and escalate violently.

[wasab]

I would love to see a game like the Syrian total war. In this game, player can choose to be one of the many warring rebel or the oppressive old regime or the crazy ISIS. Each faction can get support from foreign sources. ISIS gets foreign Muslim volunteers while others get aids from foreign governments. It would be interesting.

[Okjoek]

3 minutes ago, wasab said:

I would love to see a game like the Syrian total war. In this game, player can choose to be one of the many warring rebel or the oppressive old regime or the crazy ISIS. Each faction can get support from foreign sources. ISIS gets foreign Muslim volunteers while others get aids from foreign governments. It would be interesting.

Well you do have Planetside 2 which is an MMO FPS. It's not exactly the same, but you have

the old collectivist regime of the domineering Terran Republic.

vs

the corporate state / freedom fighters of the New Conglomerate.

vs 

Tranhumanist cult of technology who worship a long-extinct alien species of the game's planet Auraxis.

[Ithanul]

I rather not see a game based on that mess.

That country is a mess.

19 hours ago, Okjoek said:

It can be easy to forget due to just how far away it is.

Kind of reminds me of how Americans behaved prior to our entry into WWII.

They should be glad it is far away.

Sorry to say, war should not be glorified.  It is a bloody mess.

[Okjoek]

1/13

Turkish backed rebels are shelling areas under SDF control in Efrin and SDF forces are preparing for possible assault by Turkish forces

[Okjoek]

4 hours ago, Ithanul said:

I rather not see a game based on that mess.

That country is a mess.

They should be glad it is far away.

Sorry to say, war should not be glorified.  It is a bloody mess.

I'm glad it's far away, but I just feel so dirty at the same time knowing that forces of our government are likely responsible for arming rebels that let it get this out of control as it did and all in the name of geopolitics and then western countries whine when the consequences reach their shores.

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, Ithanul said:

Sorry to say, war should not be glorified.  It is a bloody mess.

You are right.

 

I wish them a holes in Washington could keep their noses out of it. Its not just the mess and gore, its the money being wasted on blowing up a country and then rebuilding it. We kinda need to rebuild our country, instead of wasting money on wars and other useless projects. 

[Mug]

1 hour ago, Okjoek said:

I'm glad it's far away, but I just feel so dirty at the same time knowing that forces of our government are likely responsible for arming rebels that let it get this out of control as it did and all in the name of geopolitics and then western countries whine when the consequences reach their shores.

There's a massive historical controversy right now about whether or not the Arab Spring actually achieved anything, or if it was worth it in the first place. Sure, the IRA's supply of Semtex is gone, but at what cost?

With geopolitics on such a massive scale, you do have to decide what's going to be more costly; revolution or continuing oppressive governments. Hindsight is 20/20 though, it's too easy to criticise without fully understanding the events that ran up to it.

[Okjoek]

1/14 The Syrian Arab Army fully captured the newly made pocket.

[Okjoek]

01/15: Erdogan to US soldiers: "Put down the signs of the YPG from your uniforms so you may not become a target for us. We will start an operation to capture Afrin and Manbij."

 

I'm sickened by Turkey's destructive behavior in this conflict. Now they threaten our own forces who are helping the Kurds who are amongst the most tolerant of the local forces from what I've seen. I hope US and/or Russia come down on Erdogan like a hammer honestly.

[Teddy07]

Not really because my government and also the media puts out propaganda on a daily basis. I quit listening to their lies.

[Anghammarad]

To get a better picture of the things going on, you need to dig for yourself. The mainstream media won't tell you what is going on or why it is going on.

 

As for Turkey... Erdogan is a nutjob with a really big too small ego problem. Like Trump, Like Kim Yong Un... 

People with weak egos that take everything as personal affront should never be allowed to run for leadership positions... 

 

One reason for the war in syria is for example a gas pipeline... there were to factions trying to get sold the right to build one through syria. The government chose the russian (in short, there were more countries involved) party, not the US one.

 

Shortly after boom... 

 

Most Wars nowadays are fought not for freedom, peace, because peace can't grow out of violence, they are fought for "big corps" and ressources... not for human rights, democracy etc... 

 

There was a joke running around not long ago...

 

" Norway found big oil deposits on their shores which can sustain our need for oil for another few decades. - 

  US News outlet : Weapons of mass destruction and activities that only can be described as terrorism found in big parts of Norway.

  We need to go there and bring peace and democracy!"

[Guest]

Turkey is just a joke right now full stop.

If Erdogan really wants to invade a bit of Syria its not going to end well. Putin really isn't too fond of him right now seeing as Turkey shot down that Russian plane. He has picked his moment as Russians are pulling out.
 

[Mattson]

I like to view the events in Syria with the old Canadian adage: "Not my pig, not my farm."

 

Of course if we stretch that out and take the refugees into account I guess they are my pigs now?  Not to say that Syrian people are pigs... I'm of the opinion that we should take as many refugees as possible.

 

It is an absolute shit show right now over there and the only commentary I hear, especially on my Facebook feed, are xenophobic charged rants by people adamantly against refugees.  People who have no idea what it's like to lose most of their family by a random artillery shell... there's no sympathy and it makes me incredibly sad.  

 

I try to explain the logic behind helping these people using an analogy: It's 2AM and there is a knock on your door... a man just drove into a ditch and it is cold outside and he needs help.  Do you help him?

 

Yes... but the common retort I get to that argument is 'what if 200 people knock on your door.'  As if the quantity of those in need is the reason not to help them.

Anyway... I'll digress.  I'm very loosely following what is going on in Syria.  When ever I try to enter the discussion I find too many people with tin foil hats spewing their garbage.

[Womagranart]

I personally can't say that i was feeling it, however, in a way or another, directly or indrectly, i think that everyone has been feeling it.

[Ithanul]

On 1/13/2018 at 10:33 PM, Donut417 said:

We kinda need to rebuild our country, instead of wasting money on wars and other useless projects. 

Highly agree.

 

I prefer a lot of that money be redirected to our aging infrastructure and to improving education.

On 1/16/2018 at 11:35 AM, Mattson said:

It is an absolute shit show right now over there and the only commentary I hear, especially on my Facebook feed, are xenophobic charged rants by people adamantly against refugees.  People who have no idea what it's like to lose most of their family by a random artillery shell... there's no sympathy and it makes me incredibly sad.  

 

I try to explain the logic behind helping these people using an analogy: It's 2AM and there is a knock on your door... a man just drove into a ditch and it is cold outside and he needs help.  Do you help him?

 

Yes... but the common retort I get to that argument is 'what if 200 people knock on your door.'  As if the quantity of those in need is the reason not to help them.

Anyway... I'll digress.  I'm very loosely following what is going on in Syria.  When ever I try to enter the discussion I find too many people with tin foil hats spewing their garbage.

It is a complete crap over there.

I saw some stuff I rather wish I did not see.  Simple, us humans can do some f up stuff to each other (probably one reason I don't have a high opinion of our race now).

 

On the deal of people going xenophobic, just re enforces my view that our race still acts like cavemen afraid of the dark.  In this case, a culture they don't fully understand nor take the time to understand.  Heck, I remember the crap I saw when Japan got hit by that tsunami and people saying they deserved it because of Pearl Harbor.  Talk about me wanting to slap the crap out people.

 

[Ace McPlane]

This is a really weird place to put this topic,

but I'll say a few things and leave it at that.

 

Yes, I've been following it as I've been a member of Amnesty International for decades and have always opposed crimes against humanity.

 

There's a lot of rhetoric around Syria. A lot of conspiracy theories and a lot of mixed messages about what's going on.

 

The truth is that it's been brutal. One of the worst things we've seen since WWII and the people making up stories about it to get people against intervening in any way or helping anyone escape it have extremely malicious intentions. A lot of them want these civilians bombed and killed. Women and children included. That's where a hatred of another race or religion can lead. If you've seen the piles of dead children and talked to any survivors, you couldn't possibly have that mindset. The stories you could hear would break your heart a thousand times over. I've honestly seen people brag about it, so there certainly is a crowd that supports what's happening to these people. Be careful who you trust, because some people who would try to convince you that not doing anything is the right thing to do are people who would love to see a bunch of Muslims massacred just because of their race or religion. People who would never normally support something so awful get duped into being against measures to stop the chemical weapons attacks with anti-American rhetoric which is ironic because the current President of the United States supports what Assad and Putin are doing there.

 

This is a conflict where civilians are being hit with chemical weapons attacks by their own government while being carpet bombed by supporters of Assad at the same time.

 

These are all direct violations of the Geneva Protocol and crimes against humanity.

 

All I need to say is that if you're okay with this, you're on the wrong side of history.

 

That's all.

 

This is an inflammatory topic that really doesn't belong on Linustechtips.

It could start all sorts of arguments.

 

So, I'll leave it at that, say my piece and turn off notifications for the post.

 

I said everything I needed to say anyways.

[Okjoek]

         "01/19: Turkish media: "Around thousand YPG militants were moved into Syria’s Tel Abyad border town after US army conducts reconnaissance mission in the area""

 

There also appears to be movements of Russian troops in the region that Turkey has been making recent threats against:

 

        "01/19: Russian soldiers are leaving the base in Kafr Janna and all other locations towards Zahraa right now."

 

        "01/19: Russian Convoy heading back towards Kafr Janna / Menagh Military Airbase after reaching Dayr al-Jimal

         The situation is very confusing"

[Delicieuxz]

On 12/01/2018 at 6:53 PM, Okjoek said:

One thing I'm curious/nervous about is reports as of 1/12 that within days Turkey plans another offensive into north-western Syria against the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces). Coming from me who's viewing the conflict in favor of the legitimate Syrian Government under the leadership of Bashar al-Assad this sounds like Turkey trying to seize territory for itself in the fear that they now see the rebels(that are at the very least not hostile to Turkey) are losing vast swathes of territory to the advances of a now battle hardened SAA.

I don't think that Turkey plans to take Syrian territory, but the SDK is mostly Kurdish YPG, which Turkey views as a part of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which Turkey views as a terrorist group and has been fighting for decades, and won't tolerate allowing them to build a concentrated and heavily supplied force along their border.

 

The Kurdistan Workers' Party seek to create an independent state out of land from Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. And if they're allowed to amass along the Turkish border, and build up bases there, that would help them pursue their goal of creating a new state by annexing territory from other countries.

 

 

 

That could actually well be a part of the US' reasoning in calling for this Kurdish border force (though, the US has now backed down from their call of a Kurdish border force), as it would destabilize and weaken the countries who lose access and territory to that force. And the US plotted from the beginning to destroy as many of these countries as possible.

 

4-star US general Wesley Clark explaining how the Bush administration planned on destroying 7 M.E. countries in 5 years:

 

The US' sponsoring of terrorists and other militant groups in Syria is likely an extension of the original plan from Bush Jr.'s presidency.

 

 

Nothing about the US' involvement in Syria is honest, or noble. The US has ulterior motives for everything that it's doing in the area, just as Western news media isn't reporting the truth about things there, and has ulterior motives for everything that they do say about the area: Such as when Western news media was hyping the tragedy of Aleppo, reporting many falsehoods and doing everything to hype the situation in Aleppo and make the Syrian government and Russia out to sound like monsters, it wasn't because the fighting and civilian death in Aleppo was actually of unimaginable proportions, but for the sake of a diversion away from the US' campaign to retake Mosul, Iraq, which was going on at the very same time and was causing more than double the average weekly civilian death toll as was occurring in Aleppo at the same time.

 

So, US and Western media coordinated a media blackout on reporting about Mosul, and then disingenuously hyped Aleppo up to seem as though it was a novel calamity, when it was actually much less of one (though certainly one still) than the US' own doings in Mosul. And the US' disastrous campaign for Mosul went on for months after the campaign for Aleppo ended. And then the US has Mosul part 2, when fighting for Raqqa, Syria. And, again, US and Western media was pretty silent in reporting about that situation.

 

 

Here's a more sober contextualizing of the conflict in Syria than the fictional narrative peddled by US and Western MSM:

 

https://medium.com/opacity/the-syrian-war-condensed-a-more-rigorous-way-to-look-at-the-conflict-f841404c3b1d#.qwnjubuvu

 

 

On 16/01/2018 at 4:39 AM, RorzNZ said:

Turkey is just a joke right now full stop.

If Erdogan really wants to invade a bit of Syria its not going to end well. Putin really isn't too fond of him right now seeing as Turkey shot down that Russian plane. He has picked his moment as Russians are pulling out.

Turkey has patched things up with Russia since the downing of a Russian plane, and just recently bought S-400 AA missile systems from Russia, to the chagrin of NATO and the USA.

 

Turkey has the most powerful army in the Middle East, which is why NATO countries remain silent about Turkey actions that they'd demonize if done by any other country, and why they make such efforts to appease Erdogan and keep Turkey in NATO, despite major clashes in values between Turkey and Western NATO members. NATO policy is that if any NATO member is attacked, then all NATO members have to come to the defence of the NATO member that's attacked. Turkey is NATO's primary power in the Middle East, if it's ever needed (or wanted to be tapped through a false flag operation), and they don't want to lose claim to Turkey's army and its strategic value.

 

The more Turkey's relationships with Russia improve, the less leverage NATO has in the Middle East. And both Turkey and Russia view the assassination of Russia's ambassador in Turkey as a state-sponsored attempt to spoil Turkey-Russia relations.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38369962

 

 

10 hours ago, stateofpsychosis said:

People who would never normally support something so awful get duped into being against measures to stop the chemical weapons attacks with anti-American rhetoric which is ironic because the current President of the United States supports what Assad and Putin are doing there.

 

This is a conflict where civilians are being hit with chemical weapons attacks by their own government while being carpet bombed by supporters of Assad at the same time.

The known details about events suggests that narrative about Assad using chemical weapons to be False, and propaganda.

 

There has been no evidence that Assad has used chemical weapons, either from the Ghouta incident in 2013, which the international community has come to accept was carried out by US-backed rebels, likely with assistance from Turkey, or during the Idlib incident in April 2017, for which there has been no evidence that it was carried out by Syria's government, and which has been seemingly comprehensively debunked by one of the US' own top chemical weapons experts, Theodore Postol, who co-designed the Patriot Missile defence system, and who has been a government adviser, and is an MIT ballistic weapons expert and professor, also specializing in the dispersal systems for these weapons.

 

Theodore has made a series of public analyses showing that the attack cannot possibly have been what the US government claimed it to be:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Vs2rjE9TdwR2F3NFFVWDExMnc/view

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/04/addendum-dr-theodore-postols-assessment-white-house-report-syria-chemical-attack.html

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2017/04/video-evidence-false-claims-made-white-house-intelligence-report-april-11-2017.html

http://www.unz.com/article/the-nerve-agent-attack-that-did-not-occur/

 

I'm completely against the use of chemical weapons. There just isn't any evidence that Assad has used them. There is, however, proof that the US was using banned chemical weapons on civilian-populated areas in both Iraq and Syria around the very same time that they were alleging Assad to have used a chemical weapon.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/06/09/u-s-led-forces-appear-to-be-using-white-phosphorous-in-populated-areas-in-iraq-and-syria/?utm_term=.ed02463780a7

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/damning-footage-shows-highly-incendary-10571557

https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/US-Warplane-Drop-Banned-White-Phosphorus-Bomb-on-Syria-20170927-0017.html

https://www.rt.com/news/398807-syria-un-us-coalition-white-phosphorus/

 

So, like US news media hyping the situation in Aleppo to deflect attention away from the much worse situation at the US' hands in Mosul, the accusation of Assad conducting a chemical weapon attack in April 2017 seems to have been another case of the US employing its mainstay propaganda tactic of 'accuse others of what you're doing, yourself'.

 

 

And carpet-bombing is precisely what the US did in Raqqa, Syria.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia/russia-accuses-u-s-led-coalition-of-barbaric-bombing-of-syrias-raqqa-idUSKBN1CR0DS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5005501/Shocking-photos-city-Raqqa.html

 

[Hiya!]

On 13/1/2018 at 2:06 PM, Donut417 said:

Like most Americans all I can do is worry about myself and my family. Because frankly, most of those issues are out of my hands. 

True, after all i have been through i realized that u cant keep on helping everyone.

If u do u'll lose yourself bits by bits till no more of u left, now i am sure positive people keep saying that if u help people u'll be rewarded for your deeds but that is not always true,reality is different. its a cruel and nasty place.

And sometimes there are certain things that better left unexplained because the less u see the world the happier u'll be.

Just worry about yourself and your loved ones and if the world will burn then let it burn,it will be a better place without human in the first place anyway.