So apparently, the Intel/Radeon marriage is a thing that's happening

[S w a t s o n]

Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

It is sneaky wording as "how do we sell more products" is exactly what they are doing lol. they are getting that money from their competitor without directly competing with them.

Ok but they are competing against Intel... that's what Raven Ridge is

[cj09beira]

Just now, Swatson said:

Ok but they are competing against Intel... that's what Raven Ridge is

yes and no, its probably 2 completely different price brackets, i would like amd to make their own version of this with the same gpu though, stead of relying on intel

[Dylanc1500]

Just now, Swatson said:

Ok but they are competing against Intel... that's what Raven Ridge is

Yes but in this instance their direct competitor would actually be NVidia. AMD and Intel both have products that don't necissarily compete and in the case of Raven Ridge they are competing against Intels CPUs with integrated graphics. This is a product they can sell without direct competition. It depends on which angle you take, as you could look at Intel competing against itself. This is an intermediary between an integrated graphics solution and a "typical" dedicated graphics solution.

[S w a t s o n]

12 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

Yes but in this instance their direct competitor would actually be NVidia. AMD and Intel both have products that don't necissarily compete and in the case of Raven Ridge they are competing against Intels CPUs with integrated graphics.

What? How would raven ridge not be competing against this. Raven Ridge = Ryzen + Vega, this is Intel+Vega. You can't just say "oh it's only going to compete with intels own integrated graphics chips." Once Intel puts these on the market, it will be direct competition.

 

They are both planned to be used in thin and light laptops as well. I really don't see how they are not direct competitors.

 

17 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

yes and no, its probably 2 completely different price brackets, i would like amd to make their own version of this with the same gpu though, stead of relying on intel

They might be priced differently but AMD being priced cheaper doesn't make it less of a competitor, if perf and form factor are similar it competes in my eyes.

[BamaRob]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/rivals-intel-and-amd-team-up-on-pc-chips-to-battle-nvidia-1509966064

[cj09beira]

7 minutes ago, Swatson said:

What? How would raven ridge not be competing against this. Raven Ridge = Ryzen + Vega, this is Intel+Vega. You can't just say "oh it's only going to compete with intels own integrated graphics chips." Once Intel puts these on the market, it will be direct competition.

 

They are both planned to be used in thin an light laptops as well. I really don't see how they are not direct competitors.

 

They might be priced differently but AMD being priced cheaper doesn't make it less of a competitor, if perf and form factor is similar it competes in my eyes.

thats like saying that the 480 competes with the 1080, NO.

the amd apu that is going to be released has 11Cus, this one has 24Cus more than double, memory bandwidth is also much much higher, so no they do not compete

[S w a t s o n]

1 minute ago, cj09beira said:

thats like saying that the 480 competes with the 1080, NO.

the amd apu that is going to be released has 11Cus, this one has 24Cus more than double, memory bandwidth is also much much higher, so no they do not compete

Where were CU's confirmed? Also, I have no doubt that AMD will release further versions of APU's we've only seen leaks of 2 models.

[Dylanc1500]

Just now, Swatson said:

What? How would raven ridge not be competing against this. Raven Ridge = Ryzen + Vega, this is Intel+Vega. You can't just say "oh it's only going to compete with intels own integrated graphics chips." Once Intel puts these on the market, it will be direct competition.

It's the implementation, intended use, target customer and price. Raven ridge is to be an in die solution. This is intended to be a step above a integrated as keeping it on a seperate die allows for a greater performance target. Again, it's all in the angle you decide to look at it from. From the angle you are coming from the argument could be made that Intel is also competing against itself. In the same instance you can't just say it has vega in it so they are competing products. That said, if AMD comes out with a similar product where they have a Ryzen die and vega die in a similar setup and performance target, at that point they could be competing against themselves. 

[tsk]

6 minutes ago, Swatson said:

What? How would raven ridge not be competing against this. Raven Ridge = Ryzen + Vega, this is Intel+Vega. You can't just say "oh it's only going to compete with intels own integrated graphics chips." Once Intel puts these on the market, it will be direct competition.

Raven ridge= 12-25W 

Intel H series= 45W + dGPU(probably 75W+) 

[AMDPRO]

Yes, isnt it great

[cj09beira]

Just now, Swatson said:

Where was CU's confirmed? Also, I have no doubt that AMD will release further versions of APU's we've only seen leaks of 2 models.

if they release a apu with around 20 cus and hbm (even without) i will say they are competitors, not the case right now,

Cus i saw somewhere i think wccf

[Jaxder]

Nice paywall.

[S w a t s o n]

17 minutes ago, tsk said:

Raven ridge= 12-25W 

Intel H series= 45W + dGPU(probably 75W+) 

We haven't seen all of Raven Ridge yet, Ryzen leads on TDP on the desktop, could easily be the case on mobile as well, or perhaps not. We could also see higher power APUs

 

17 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

if they release a apu with around 20 cus and hbm (even without) i will say they are competitors, not the case right now,

Cus i saw somewhere i think wccf

 

If there is no confirmation of the CU's on the intel chip, that is a baseless claim

 

17 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

It's the implementation, intended use, target customer and price. Raven ridge is to be an in die solution. This is intended to be a step above a integrated as keeping it on a seperate die allows for a greater performance target. Again, it's all in the angle you decide to look at it from. From the angle you are coming from the argument could be made that Intel is also competing against itself. In the same instance you can't just say it has vega in it so they are competing products. That said, if AMD comes out with a similar product where they have a Ryzen die and vega die in a similar setup and performance target, at that point they could be competing against themselves. 

Raven Ridge is an APU because AMD makes APU's and is good at it, it's also much more efficient. Remember AMD makes the APU's for the consoles Including Xbox One X which is actually a beastly APU, not even running ryzen or vega.

 

I think AMD will have a product that competes with this on Performance, and Form Factor with a cheaper price. If the laptop is about the same size and uses about the same power and performs about the same but cheaper, that is a competing product to the end user.

[dizmo]

Just posting a link with no information or personal opinion is generally frowned upon.
Welcome to the forum.

[jort93]

You probably have read something about it already.

What excites me even more than the fact that we'll get AMD graphics(which have been better than Intel's) is that they'll have HBM 2 on board which should defeat the RAM bottleneck I-gpu's often have. I feel like the performance could be on a whole different level.

What do you guys think about it?

[Cyracus]

turnip

[jort93]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12003/intel-to-create-new-8th-generation-cpus-with-amd-radeon-graphics-with-hbm2-using-emib heres an article if you are wondering. 

[ashypanda]

dude that's sick, i'm going to have to hold off upgrading my laptop until this comes to fruition.

[tsk]

13 minutes ago, Swatson said:

We haven't seen all of Raven Ridge yet, Ryzen leads on TDP on the desktop, could easily be the case on mobile as well, or perhaps not. We could also see higher power APUs

 

 

If there is no confirmation of the CU's on the intel chip, that is a baseless claim

 

Raven Ridge is an APU because AMD makes APU's and is good at it, it's also much more efficient. Remember AMD makes the APU's for the consoles Including Xbox One X which is actually a beastly APU, not even running ryzen or vega.

 

I think AMD with have a product that competes with this on Performance, and Form Factor with a cheaper price. If the laptop is about the size and uses about the same power and performs about the same but cheaper, that is a competing product to the end user.

Haven't seen it? https://techreport.com/review/32743/amd-ryzen-7-2700u-and-ryzen-5-2500u-apus-revealed

 

This is a semi custom solution, like the one in the Xbox one X(which has 180W TDP and GDDR5). 

You're not gonna see any APU from AMD with that kind of performance, so no, they will not be competing products. 

[S w a t s o n]

5 minutes ago, tsk said:

Haven't seen it? https://techreport.com/review/32743/amd-ryzen-7-2700u-and-ryzen-5-2500u-apus-revealed

 

This is a semi custom solution, like the one in the Xbox one X(which has 180W TDP and GDDR5). 

You're not gonna see any APU from AMD with that kind of performance, so no, they will not be competing products. 

Ok no it's not a semi-custom solution, or we have different definitions of custom, that's just raven ridge and that's just leaks of the first 2 models which are clearly meant to compete with thin and lights. 15w TDP is the same as intel U series.

 

The Scorpio APU is based on jaguar cores (BULLDOZER) and polaris with some vega enhancements but it's not really the same. I think we could easily see an APU in a 45w-65w range for mid tier laptops and over 100w for gaming machines, of course Ryzen + Discrete Vega will be the top end.

[jort93]

That is true. But i feel like onboard memory could really turn the tables here. the GPU that close to the cpu with fast HBM memory could really perform great assuming its actually not a horrible gpu. 

[Taf the Ghost]

@Swatson

 

The benchmark leaks point to something in the range of 75-100w TDPs, depending on configuration for the NUCs. It's also likely that a version will exist for some Apple products. (Mac Mini? Macbook? New product?) The EMIB rollout is the key aspect. Intel can place any GPU configuration on there, but there's only one dGPU maker that Intel is on okay terms with.

[ionbasa]

Hmm interesting. May not be a bad thing for AMD, they'll sell more volume of GPUs. AMD's GPU sector could use a 'pick me up'. Would be interesting to see where this joint venture leads to. One thing to note is that we do not know the full details of the agreement. It's possible it also involves some sharing of IP between AMD and Intel, wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. 

[tsk]

5 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Ok no it's not a semi-custom solution, or we have different definitions of custom, that's just raven ridge and that's just leaks of the first 2 models which are clearly meant to compete with thin and lights. 15w TDP is the same as intel U series.

 

The Scorpio APU is based on jaguar cores (BULLDOZER) and polaris with some vega enhancements but it's not really the same. I think we could easily see an APU in a 45w-65w range for mid tier laptops and over 100w for gaming machines, of course Ryzen + Discrete Vega will be the top end.

That's not a leak, that's an announcement from AMD. 

 

And yes the scorpio is a semi-custom design.

[IrshaadH]

I think it would be really good for future consoles.