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So apparently, the Intel/Radeon marriage is a thing that's happening

jasonc_01
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Go to solution Solved by captain cactus,

sauce: https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/new-intel-core-processor-combine-high-performance-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/

 

Quote

The new product, which will be part of our 8th Gen Intel Core family, brings together our high-performing Intel Core H-series processor, second generation High Bandwidth Memory (HBM2) and a custom-to-Intel third-party discrete graphics chip from AMD’s Radeon Technologies Group* – all in a single processor package.

It’s a prime example of hardware and software innovations intersecting to create something amazing that fills a unique market gap. Helping to deliver on our vision for this new class of product, we worked with the team at AMD’s Radeon Technologies Group. In close collaboration, we designed a new semi-custom graphics chip, which means this is also a great example of how we can compete and work together, ultimately delivering innovation that is good for consumers.

So this was the semi-custom design AMD talked about a while back. But it has happened. Here's Intel's video:

 

 

So yeah. We now have an Intel CPU with an AMD RTG GPU in the 35-55W TDP range.

 

Here's how they did that:

 

Intel-8th-Gen-CPU-discrete-graphics.jpg

 

That's a single HBM2 stack so we're likely limited to 4GB of video RAM. The details of the AMD GPU are unknown at this point, likely to be a Vega-based GPU, but things as SP count and clock speeds are not known yet.

Posted
1 minute ago, Morgan MLGman said:

From what I've heard about the topic, AMDs architectures are better-suited for iGPUs than Nvidia ones. Not sure why though...

Efficiency of Vega for instance isn't that bad (look at Vega 56 power draw) but when it's outside of the optimal efficiency curve for this architecture like the Vega 64 (high clocks + more processing units enabled) then the power consumption goes through the roof.

 

3 minutes ago, FibonacciOne1235 said:

Vega is actually very efficient at lower power and TDP. The reason Vega 56 and 64 run so hot is that there running at the edge of what Vega is capable of. Essentially, they are overclocked, going far beyond the most efficient speeds from the Vega architecture.

 

Yea I know but you can be the most efficient thing on the planet, however if the performance is crap no one cares.  That's really what I'm getting at.  How's vega in this solution supposed to be highend performance without using more power, or enough power to make it poor choice?

If it ends up being 1060 perf wise and supremely efficient, that's fine.  i just wouldn't think to call it highend, actually I'd be more inclined to view it as an intentionally very misleading statement.

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Posted
Just now, MoonSpot said:

 

 

Yea I know but you can be the most efficient thing on the planet, however if the performance is crap no one cares.  That's really what I'm getting at.  How's vega in this solution supposed to be highend performance without using more power, or enough power to make it poor choice?

If it ends up being 1060 perf wise and supremely efficient, that's fine.  i just wouldn't think to call it highend, actually I'd be more inclined to view it as an intentionally very misleading statement.

Based on the estimate of die size and thus shader count, it apparently will be something like a Vega 28, so no, not high end, but definitely way better than iGPUs have been traditionally.  That said, you'd hope so since based on the video this seems to be a way to replace/upgrade dedicated GPUs, not iGPUs

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

Assuming perfect size to shader correlation, this little GPU might have about 1792 shaders, which would be Vega 28. Assuming. (Thanks to @Ryan_Vickers for the die size estimate) 

Well it is 24 CU's, 4GB of HBM2

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/compute/811174

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Based on the estimate of die size and thus shader count, it apparently will be something like a Vega 28, so no, not high end, but definitely way better than iGPUs have been traditionally.  That said, you'd hope so since based on the video this seems to be a way to replace/upgrade dedicated GPUs, not iGPUs

It's Polaris not Vega in this thing. It started like a year ago so Vega wasn't ready to go yet.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

It's Polaris not Vega in this thing.

oh... really? .-.

 

Vega 28 I was willing to get behind, that's like a 1050 / 1050 Ti probably by my estimate, but in light of these new disappointments, I'm starting to think that despite what the video showed, this is looking more like a fantastic upgrade to iGPUs than a replacement for dedicated graphics... I can't think of any dedicated graphics that this is better or even equal to actually.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

Ehhh close enough :P 

pretty good for a pixel measurement of a low res image out of a video that might not even be accurate xD

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Posted

Nvidia and Intel don't really compete though do they? I mean maybe in a few areas, but I think AMD competes with Intel more than Nvidia does.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Julian2000nl said:

Sometimes you have to team up with your enemy to battle a disease.

in this case nvidia is not the disease. its intel

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Posted
28 minutes ago, tsk said:

Would be good if the OP actually was informative. Then again this is LTT forum. 

Whoever is first gets it in this case, assuming theirs is good enough to be merged, and this was, but I've gone ahead and marked another of the better "OPs" as solution so that can be found and read as well

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

oh... really? .-.

 

Vega 28 I was willing to get behind, that's like a 1050 / 1050 Ti probably by my estimate, but in light of these new disappointments, I'm starting to think that despite what the video showed, this is looking more like a fantastic upgrade to iGPUs than a replacement for dedicated graphics... I can't think of any dedicated graphics that this is better or even equal to actually.

Yeah it's basically meant to be a +1 over Iris probably for Apple and the like.  I think there was also a "budget" development mentality where they weren't sure if it was going to work so they wanted to throw in a cheap / low risk Polaris gpu.  Vega will probably come with a Coffee Lake refresh of Kaby Lake.

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Posted
4 hours ago, cj09beira said:

it still seems like a weird move from amd, especially because amd is releasing ryzen based apus very soon with great perf 

This will be targeting top of the line Ultrabooks. Not a market that AMD will be able to enter with Raven Ridge. So from their perspective it's significant monetary gain for little impact on their other revenue streams. Moreover, it gets their graphics brand out there in a positive light.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Not that Intel isn't guilty of some crimes against AMD. 

some crimes? intel destroyed AMD by illegally controlling major PC makers, at one point all the money dell made was from intel giving them millions to not use AMD chips even when they were better, and by not breaking their agreement with AMD properly early on. This isn't a few issues, it was a few issues that basically created a monopoly.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

This will be targeting top of the line Ultrabooks. Not a market that AMD will be able to enter with Raven Ridge.

What makes you think that?

 

Also, WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I can't believe this is real. AMD and Intel fucking played us.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Swatson said:

What makes you think that?

 

Also, WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF I can't believe this is real. AMD and Intel fucking played us.

What they denied was being on the same die. They never denied being on the same pcb.

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Posted
Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

What they denied was being on the same die. They never denied being on the same pcb.

No they didn't say die vs pcb. They just straight up said no

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Posted
10 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

This will be targeting top of the line Ultrabooks. Not a market that AMD will be able to enter with Raven Ridge. So from their perspective it's significant monetary gain for little impact on their other revenue streams. Moreover, it gets their graphics brand out there in a positive light.

AMD can never make a Ultrabook, Ultrabook is a trademark of Intel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrabook

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12 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

AMD can never make a Ultrabook, Ultrabook is a trademark of Intel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrabook

Yes but, no manufacturer really uses that Ultrabook term now. The whole "Ultrabook" specification is dead. Ultrabooks are now just thin and light laptops.

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Posted
Just now, Swatson said:

No they didn't say die vs pcb. They just straight up said no

What was denied was that Intel was going to be using integrated Radeon graphics. With Intels meaning of "integrated" being on die.

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Posted
Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

What was denied was that Intel was going to be using integrated Radeon graphics. With Intels meaning of "integrated" being on die.

"wont be licensing"

http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/amd-intel-chips/

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Posted
1 hour ago, AnonymousGuy said:

It's Polaris not Vega in this thing. It started like a year ago so Vega wasn't ready to go yet.

So I'm calling BS on all of this. We do not know for sure which it is, but every source says it is likely Vega, seeing as Polaris is not designed to utilize HMB2 while Vega is. Also, even if work on this started a year ago, work on Vega started years before that, and the whole point on the Multi Die Interconnect is that the two chips don't have to be designed together, an existing architecture can be adapted to function with another chip relatively simple via thus method.

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Posted
Just now, Swatson said:

"wont be licensing"

http://fortune.com/2017/05/23/amd-intel-chips/

And they aren't. In order to use Radeon graphics as an integrated graphics solution would require them to license. Sticking a custom AMD die on to a pcb doesn't require licensing. Like I said it was a play on words and nothing could prevent them from doing the same with an NVidia die (other than an agreement with AMD).

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Just now, Dylanc1500 said:

And they aren't. In order to use Radeon graphics as an integrated graphics solution would require them to license. Sticking a custom AMD die on to a pcb doesn't require licensing. Like I said it was a play on words and nothing could prevent them from doing the same with an NVidia die (other than an agreement with AMD).

Here's a quote from Lisa Su in the article
 

Quote

“It’s about how do we sell more products, or how do we have our IP in markets where we’re not currently selling products. We’re not looking at enabling a competitor to compete against our products.”

Sure I mean, you can say it was sneaky wording, but I think they just straight up lied to save face.

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Posted
3 hours ago, MageTank said:

You are right, just googled it and found this article:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/intel-amd-vega-mobile-cpu

intellifts.jpg

 

Intel needs to seriously work on their elevator art. I'd be mighty creeped out if I opened that "Paul Inside" door, only for Paul to actually be standing inside. 

If I were Paul I would be using that elevator every chance I got.

15 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

AMD can never make a Ultrabook, Ultrabook is a trademark of Intel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrabook

*Golf Clap*

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Posted
1 minute ago, Swatson said:

Here's a quote from Lisa Su in the article
 

Sure I mean, you can say it was sneaky wording, but I think they just straight up lied to save face.

It is sneaky wording as "how do we sell more products" is exactly what they are doing lol. they are getting that money from their competitor without directly competing with them.

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