So apparently, the Intel/Radeon marriage is a thing that's happening

[S w a t s o n]

3 minutes ago, tsk said:

That's not a leak, that's an announcement from AMD. 

 

And yes the scorpio is a semi-custom design.

Sorry "sneak preview", you know what I meant. It's a technical details press release.

 

Scorpio is semi custom, however you said

Quote

Haven't seen it? https://techreport.com/review/32743/amd-ryzen-7-2700u-and-ryzen-5-2500u-apus-revealed

 

This is a semi custom solution, like the one in the Xbox one X(which has 180W TDP and GDDR5). 

Scorpio is in xbox one x, your sentence clearly implied you think the raven ridge chips are semi-custom.

[DrowningFish]

This is really cool. I hope this happens more often.

[tsk]

5 minutes ago, Swatson said:

Sorry "sneak preview", you know what I meant. It's a technical details press release.

 

Scorpio is semi custom, however you said

Scorpio is in xbox one x, your sentence clearly implied you think the raven ridge chips are semi-custom.

By this I meant the solution from Intel with an AMD GPU is a semi custom design, not raven ridge. 

[vanished]

-Merged several more topics-

[S w a t s o n]

Just now, tsk said:

By this I meant the solution from Intel with an AMD GPU is a semi custom design, not raven ridge. 

Ehh they are both "semi-custom" but Scorpio is an APU, this is basically discrete vega with an intel chip but much better integration.

[tsk]

10 minutes ago, ionbasa said:

One thing to note is that we do not know the full details of the agreement. It's possible it also involves some sharing of IP between AMD and Intel, wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. 

That is not the case, read the announcement. 

[Taf the Ghost]

5 minutes ago, ionbasa said:

Hmm interesting. May not be a bad thing for AMD, they'll sell more volume of GPUs. AMD's GPU sector could use a 'pick me up'. Would be interesting to see where this joint venture leads to. One thing to note is that we do not know the full details of the agreement. It's possible it also involves some sharing of IP between AMD and Intel, wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. 

Minimal IP. That's the EMIB part that's key. Those watching future computer tech have been tracking EMIB for a while. (It's effectively an advanced interposer, but it's a lot more swiss-army knife than that.) Intel can hook almost anything onto a board with it, though the real application is in a few years with "chiplets". 

 

Main thing for Intel is they need more graphics power in certain products, but between IP issues and development costs, paying AMD is a lot cheaper.

[3 Lions]

This is like Middlesbrough FC joining forces with Sunderland FC...it ain't gonna happen.

[S w a t s o n]

3 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Minimal IP. That's the EMIB part that's key. Those watching future computer tech have been tracking EMIB for a while. (It's effectively an advanced interposer, but it's a lot more swiss-army knife than that.) Intel can hook almost anything onto a board with it, though the real application is in a few years with "chiplets". 

 

Main thing for Intel is they need more graphics power in certain products, but between IP issues and development costs, paying AMD is a lot cheaper.

Do you know how Infinity fabric plays into the EMIB implementation, EMIB is obviously distinct from IF but does IF affect this particular implementation at all?

[tsk]

1 minute ago, Swatson said:

Do you know how Infinity fabric plays into the EMIB implementation, EMIB is obviously distinct from IF but does IF affect this particular implementation at all?

It doesn't, there's no infinity fabric on this product. 

[S w a t s o n]

Just now, tsk said:

It doesn't, there's no infinity fabric on this product. 

Do we know that for a fact?

[tsk]

Just now, Swatson said:

Do we know that for a fact?

Yes, this solution is a product from Intel. This article explains things pretty well. EMIB is a similar thing to infinity fabric though. 

[Taf the Ghost]

Just now, Swatson said:

Do you know how Infinity fabric plays into the EMIB implementation, EMIB is obviously distinct from IF but does IF affect this particular implementation at all?

IF and EMIB are fairly separate concepts, though there's some overlap. Though I'm not quite sure how much of EMIB's capabilities we really know right now. It was "in the future" tech until, apparently, today. Infinity Fabric is more about data sharing among the entire system, while EMIB is a manufacturing approach. EMIB + Chiplet will, in theory, allow Intel to make parts of CPUs and "glue" them together.

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/emib.html

 

At the same time, Intel has been talking about this for a while, but I think this is the first consumer device with it. (I'm guessing costs are still pretty high.)

[S w a t s o n]

9 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

IF and EMIB are fairly separate concepts, though there's some overlap. Though I'm not quite sure how much of EMIB's capabilities we really know right now. It was "in the future" tech until, apparently, today. Infinity Fabric is more about data sharing among the entire system, while EMIB is a manufacturing approach. EMIB + Chiplet will, in theory, allow Intel to make parts of CPUs and "glue" them together.

 

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/foundry/emib.html

 

At the same time, Intel has been talking about this for a while, but I think this is the first consumer device with it. (I'm guessing costs are still pretty high.)

I see, so EMiB is actually an alternative to interposer packaging like discrete vega?

Edit: article says yes

[off wave surfer]

So looks like the rumour mill wasn't lying? How about that.

 

Honestly I personally wanted this but really didn't see it coming AT ALL.

 

Quote

Intel had identified that it couldn’t deliver a premium computer experience for gamers and enthusiasts in the thin and light form factor laptop, typically between 11 and 16mm thick. To meet this challenge, “reducing the usual silicon footprint to less than half that of standard discrete components on a motherboard”, it has worked with AMD to integrate a custom-to-Intel third-party discrete graphics chip from AMD’s Radeon Technologies Group and the necessary memory tech.

Video about the new SoC style processors here.

 

It looks like they're using custom Radeon graphics, in a similar vein to Sony and Microsoft for their respective consoles. As well as making use on board HBM2, so these things will be pricey.

 

Finally all of that is on one wafer/substrate while remaining as separate chips, pretty cool product in my opinion.

 

Source: https://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/111863-intel-announces-laptop-gaming-chips-amd-radeon-graphics/

 

Edit: Hadn't notice everyone got here WAY before me! That's what I get for writing the post on my phone, at work, then posting it as I get home ...

[Taf the Ghost]

@Swatson

 

Infinity Fabric is about communicating between every aspect easily. EMIB is about driving down manufacturing costs. IF allows you to drive down costs because you can build out smaller individual units. EMIB will, eventually, allow Intel to produce single cores and "glue" them together. (Though what they actually want to do is manufacture most of the SoC parts on a node or two above and only the important parts on the current, expensive node.)

 

Both approaches make a lot of sense for both companies. AMD's is far more radical, but they're also a GPU company as well. Intel wants to put pieces together. AMD wants to get the CPU, GPU and the entire memory storage system able to call each other and remove bottlenecks.

 

The "rub", especially when it comes to gaming, is that unless you're rendering with a CPU, there's really no CPU bottlenecks. The CPU, even pegged at 100%, is likely spending most of those cycles waiting. This is why any Intel CPU after the 2600k is still in good shape with regards to game engines. It's not the cores itself that are the issue. The Core design was, in fact, 5 years ahead of the GPUs. On a per instruction basis, AMD's Zen core is better than Intel's Core core (minus AVX2 and AVX512), but that 10% IPC is about how far behind in Memory Subsystems it is.

 

Edit: There's also an aspect of the approaches that AMD & Intel are taking being dictated by the nature of the companies. Intel is a leading manufacturer; AMD is a fab-less CPU & GPU maker. Both are optimizing for their risk profile and failure states. 

[Dabombinable]

Still, wouldn't an AMD GPU+Intel CPU combo affect Ravenridge sales?

[Taf the Ghost]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

Still, wouldn't an AMD GPU+Intel CPU combo affect Ravenridge sales?

Completely different profiles. Raven Ridge will operate at upwards of 1/3 to 1/5th the power. RR also lacks the HBM and will retail in the 50 to 125 USD range. That GPU alone would retail for about 250-300 USD.(I'd love to actually see how it performs in general.)

[linustouchtips]

then intel purchases radeon from amd and we get intel HD graphics vs nvidia 

 

this is my dream a very strange dream i am a fan of blue 

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, linustouchtips said:

then intel purchases radeon from amd and we get intel HD graphics vs nvidia 

 

this is my dream a very strange dream i am a fan of blue 

AMD isn't that broke.

[linustouchtips]

Just now, Taf the Ghost said:

AMD isn't that broke.

its my weird fantasy as a matter of fact they are getting a boost in the stock as we speak

[Sakkura]

7 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Still, wouldn't an AMD GPU+Intel CPU combo affect Ravenridge sales?

No. It would potentially affect the sales of dedicated mobile Radeon GPUs, except... those practically don't exist at this point. The entire dGPU market on laptops has been held by Nvidia in recent years. This is a way to take a big chunk of it back for AMD.

[Taf the Ghost]

Just now, linustouchtips said:

its my weird fantasy as a matter of fact they are getting a boost in the stock as we speak

Hehe. Though selling RTG is an interesting idea for AMD, but then we're talking about Intel purchases. At least AMD would get paid a lot for it, even if it would require some funky licensing agreement issues.

[RagnarokDel]

6 hours ago, MyName13 said:

Igpu was the only thing that would make ryzen APUs competitive, this makes no sense.

Actually it makes perfect sense, they make money from Ryzen-based laptops and from Intel based laptops.

[jort93]

I really think it'll perform well without the usual memory bottleneck.