Nvidia working on a 1070 Ti

[Inkz]

12 hours ago, WereCat said:

Why?

I see no point in doing that this late into Pascal architecture when they could be working on releasing Volta which they already have. Especially this time around it makes even less sense because of the inflated prices of GPUs.

I agree, I was about to type something very similar. Usually they release  the x80 cards plus 70s and 60s at the start. Then at about the half way through the generation they release the 80 Ti card.  While Pascal is by no means dead, it is on its way out. It seems so strange to me that they would do that there is just barely enough room in pricing between those two cards to support a new level.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

9 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Yes this has been "subject to change" since like May or June. Mining is not going away prices will not change anytime soon: 

In Europe, they already have. As I said, many cards including RX are flowing to eBay, and fulll mining racks as well. 

 

On a side note, the claim "not competitive at actual prices" is silly: if the cards are not at MSRP is because they area in high demand. Saying that no one will but them because of the "actual price to performance" is denying the fact that motivates the high price in the first place. 

If mining isn't going away, then they better release a killer mining card at a high a price they can impose on retailers. 

[Misanthrope]

9 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

In Europe, they already have. As I said, many cards including RX are flowing to eBay, and fulll mining racks as well. 

 

On a side note, the claim "not competitive at actual prices" is silly: if the cards are not at MSRP is because they area in high demand. Saying that no one will but them because of the "actual price to performance" is denying the fact that motivates the high price in the first place. 

If mining isn't going away, then they better release a killer mining card at a high a price they can impose on retailers. 

Um no, you're wrong: The issue is that it's competitive for miners

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Um no, you're wrong: The issue is that it's competitive for miners

 

A.k.a., the marginal buyer in the market. 

Competitive is competitive. Who cares about the "consumer" who does not buy the product anyway? 

 

Demand is demand, and if it keeps selling, produce more, increase prices, or come out with a new product that gives you a higher profit in the new scenario. That's about it. 

[MrTiC]

14 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

i can find new Vega 56 cheaper then i can find new 1070s here in Sweden atlest

DAFUQ 

 

vega 56 599 euro  *typo at 699

GTX 1070 479 euro 

Hell even a GTX 1080 is cheaper at 589 euro ..

 

And those are both aftermarket coolers too (windforce)

 

 

[JupiteL]

They can very well do this. What else you're going to do? Buy AMD?

[Zodiark1593]

This could also be a good opportunity to give consumers a taste of Volta as well, somewhat like Maxwell with the GTX 750(TI). Performance between the 1070 and 1080, but a lot cooler and more power efficient, maybe with regular GDDR5.

[Age of 9394]

 

GTX 1070TI = 7640x or 7740x

7640x and 7740x = waste of money

Nvidia = rich

GTX 1070TI = ?

[Bananasplit_00]

7 hours ago, MrTiC said:

DAFUQ 

 

vega 56 599 euro  *typo at 699

GTX 1070 479 euro 

Hell even a GTX 1080 is cheaper at 589 euro ..

 

And those are both aftermarket coolers too (windforce)

 

 

I found in stock (can't check right now) Vega 56 at ~$400 and 1070s are another $50 or more. 

[Tech Enthusiast]

16 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Consumers shouldn't care about msrp. Thats not the issue. When amd and nvidia compete on price however, they fight based on MSRP. Not based on store price. Amd makes the same amount of money regardless of retail price. The in store cost is mainly affected by supply and demand. 

 

But as far as nvidia is concerned, vega 56 is faster than the 1070, and only costs a bit more (350 vs 399$), which could entice some people. 

They want to maintain leadership by making sure vega isn't even considered. 

That makes no sense.

Why would a consumer consider a card just because of a fake number given? Again: NVidia copuld just lower the MSRP of the 1070 to 49$. 

So by your logic NVidia would have "won" then.

 

My point is: AMD uses MSRP to get more hype then they should be getting. Hell, the vendors already pointed out several times that MSRP is barly manageable, if that. Their share is way too small to even consider doing MSRP pricing on Vega. So it is not gonna happen. But due to the lie from AMDE (setting the MSRP at that) people think vendors and miners are the bad guys.

 

Smart by AMD to use that trick, sad that people fall for it tho.

[Coaxialgamer]

4 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

That makes no sense.

Why would a consumer consider a card just because of a fake number given? Again: NVidia copuld just lower the MSRP of the 1070 to 49$. 

So by your logic NVidia would have "won" then.

 

My point is: AMD uses MSRP to get more hype then they should be getting. Hell, the vendors already pointed out several times that MSRP is barly manageable, if that. Their share is way too small to even consider doing MSRP pricing on Vega. So it is not gonna happen. But due to the lie from AMDE (setting the MSRP at that) people think vendors and miners are the bad guys.

 

Smart by AMD to use that trick, sad that people fall for it tho.

I don't think you get what MSRP is .Nvidia cannot lower MSRP to any arbitrary level , and it is not a fake number either.

AMD/nvidia set an msrp and sell the card to retailers for that price ( minus retailer cut ) . anything added onto that is AIB segmentation and artificial price gouging. AMD/nvidia  don't see any of that extra profit . There's no "hype" involved here.

 

[Tech Enthusiast]

29 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

I don't think you get what MSRP is .Nvidia cannot lower MSRP to any arbitrary level , and it is not a fake number either.

AMD/nvidia set an msrp and sell the card to retailers for that price ( minus retailer cut ) . anything added onto that is AIB segmentation and artificial price gouging. AMD/nvidia  don't see any of that extra profit . There's no "hype" involved here.

 

Actually in germany a MSRP is just a hint at a recommented selling price. It can be choosen freely, without any regulation or checks. And vendors are free to follow the guide, or just ignore it at will. Most of the time the MSRP is undercut by 25-50% in germany, unless it is tech imported from the US due to... taxes and silly low MSRPs.

So yes, NVidia could just put up 49 bucks to make some marketing, it would not change the price consumers have to pay tho. Vendors would just put up a smile and sell for their usuall margins calculated by the real price they got the stock in. An extremly high MSRP is nice for them tho, since they can get a bigger cut.

 

So you are saying MSRP in the US is regulated? Someone comes in to the companys and doublechecks if the MSRP is doable with a profit? Who is stopping companys from using fake numbers to put the blame on retailers and miners ? Who is double checking if these companys just try to mask how expensive the tech really is?

 

 

[Mihle]

Here in Norway, Vega 56 is 37€ cheaper than 1070, and Vega 64 is 38€ cheaper than 1080

But Neither of the Vega cards is actually in stock

[leadeater]

41 minutes ago, Rattenmann said:

Actually in germany a MSRP is just a hint at a recommented selling price. It can be choosen freely, without any regulation or checks. And vendors are free to follow the guide, or just ignore it at will. Most of the time the MSRP is undercut by 25-50% in germany, unless it is tech imported from the US due to... taxes and silly low MSRPs.

So yes, NVidia could just put up 49 bucks to make some marketing, it would not change the price consumers have to pay tho. Vendors would just put up a smile and sell for their usuall margins calculated by the real price they got the stock in. An extremly high MSRP is nice for them tho, since they can get a bigger cut.

 

So you are saying MSRP in the US is regulated? Someone comes in to the companys and doublechecks if the MSRP is doable with a profit? Who is stopping companys from using fake numbers to put the blame on retailers and miners ? Who is double checking if these companys just try to mask how expensive the tech really is?

Quote

Other higher-priced goods, such as appliances and electronics, also commonly have an MSRP. Because the MSRP is set by a product’s manufacturer, it should remain constant throughout all the stores that sell it. The MSRP is supposed to be reflective of all costs incurred over the manufacturing and sales process; an average markup by retailers is also taken into account. Prices are set to allow all parties involved, that is the manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer, to make a profit from the final sale.

 

Frequently, retailers charge less than the MSRP, but the price charged is dependent on the wholesale cost, whether purchased in bulk from the manufacturer or in smaller quantities through a distributor. In many instances, the MSRP is manipulated to an unreasonably high figure so retailers can deceptively advertise a product, listing a much lower sale price and indicating to consumers they are getting a far better bargain than in actuality.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested-retail-price-msrp.asp

 

Quote

Manufacturer’s suggested retail price (MSRP) is the price that the maker of a product recommends for it in customer-facing retail stores.

 

A MSRP is commonly 2.5 to 3 times a wholesale price. Typically, retail establishments set their list price at or below the MSRP. In sales, the MSRP is often used to show the discount that may be possible because of the seller’s volume buys or manufacturer's promotions. A MRSP may also be inflated to make the offered retail price appear more attractive.

 

The extra expense added above a manufacturer's cost or the wholesale price is generally necessary in order to cover the various costs involved with producing the product and running a retail store. Such costs as property, staff wages, electricity, phone, internet and other costs would be impossible to meet without a profit margin. 

 

Occasionally products may sell above MSRP, especially when supply is justifiably low and consumer demand is high.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/manufacturers-suggested-retail-price-MSRP

 

There is a bit more reasoning behind an MSRP than what you are trying to say though. MSRP do have a point and it's mainly for price consistency across regions. Some companies calculate their MSRP more accurately than others, in computer hardware tech these are actually much closer to supply cost than other product sectors.

 

Nvidia and AMD aren't plucking numbers out at random they are calculated, what you are seeing now is a supply issue or to put it another way more demand than supply can meet. In every other circumstance Nvidia and AMD graphics cards would be much closer to the MSRP meaning they are not a lie or a useless figure, there are just other factors outside of direct control from these companies that can effect the pricing of their products.

 

Prices being higher than MSRP does not benefit the manufacturer and it is something they do not want, it hurts reputation. Setting the MSRP too high also does the same thing so just making it higher doesn't help either. You don't actually want consumers to lose faith in your published MSRP's as it makes product launches much less successful, the more accurate the better but in turn also makes list prices more susceptible to market fluctuations because you cannot absorb those fluctuations as easily at the distributors and retailers end.

[BuckGup]

I'm sorta unimpressed with current GPUs. They are all the same old same old. I want new stuff that's way faster then the last gen. 

[Biggerboot]

8 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I'm sorta unimpressed with current GPUs. They are all the same old same old. I want new stuff that's way faster then the last gen. 

Some of it is simply due to the lack of competition on the GPU market.  AMD shook things up on the CPU end and now we're hearing reports of significant gains coming up.

If the 1070 ti ushers in more supply for the hungry mining crazed market, and makes the cards below it more affordable, I can see the rationale behind it.

[BuckGup]

6 hours ago, Biggerboot said:

Some of it is simply due to the lack of competition on the GPU market.  AMD shook things up on the CPU end and now we're hearing reports of significant gains coming up.

If the 1070 ti ushers in more supply for the hungry market mining crazed market, and makes the cards below it more affordable, I can see the rationale behind it.

Especially with Nvidia's response of Pascal is good enough until the holiday season. Yuck. Give me HBM2 Volta plz

[Biggerboot]

19 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Especially with Nvidia's response of Pascal is good enough until the holiday season. Yuck. Give me HBM2 Volta plz

I was hearing they may stick with DDR.  It would make sense if Linus' theories on AMD/HBM2 are correct.

[BuckGup]

8 minutes ago, Biggerboot said:

I was hearing they may stick with DDR.  It would make sense if Linus' theories on AMD/HBM2 are correct.

Yeah just anything new would be cool. Maybe a new architecture for once

[Biggerboot]

5 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah just anything new would be cool. Maybe a new architecture for once

Maxwell - Pascal was ~2 years so a 2018 release for Volta seems par for the course, at least from that perspective.

[Marinatall_Ironside]

On 9/14/2017 at 1:33 AM, Bananasplit_00 said:

the Vega 56 is faster though, how is that not a threat? its up there with the GTX 1080 last time i saw a bench

At 28.6% increase in power draw compared to the GTX 1070 (and that's slightly faster in a lot of games, and only faster in a select few titles) when both are running at stock. Vega 64 with all the benches I've seen from Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed tells the opposite story when pitted against the GTX 1080, at a 39% power draw increase, with both at stock as well. Sure you can argue pricing is pretty damn close, which I'll agree if U.S. retailers/e-tailers aren't price gouging so hard ?

 

Nvidia has nothing to worry about when all of that's considered. I still find the GTX 1070 Ti thing silly, if you ask me.

[Bananasplit_00]

5 minutes ago, JurunceNK said:

At 28.6% increase in power draw compared to the GTX 1070 (and that's slightly faster in a lot of games, and only faster in a select few titles) when both are running at stock. Vega 64 with all the benches I've seen from Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed tells the opposite story when pitted against the GTX 1080, at a 39% power draw increase, with both at stock as well. Sure you can argue pricing is pretty damn close, which I'll agree if U.S. retailers/e-tailers aren't price gouging so hard ?

 

Nvidia has nothing to worry about when all of that's considered. I still find the GTX 1070 Ti thing silly, if you ask me.

56 is a tinkerers card, undervolt and overclock and you will be smacking the shit out of that 1070 even if you overclock it. i have basically only seen overclocked benches and a few early stock ones aswell, but you get close to the 1070 in power draw and beat it in performance if you can bother to tinker. there are also those that have managed to make a sortof Vega "58/60/62/whatever" when flashing a 64 BIOS on them, but that dosent seem to matter much in performance numbers, only reason to do it is more HBM 2 voltage to overclock that even further. but i would still recomend a 56 over a 1070 seeing as Vega seems to do much better for itself at higher resolutions, and neither card makes sense for someone with a 1080p display really so most people getting them probably want a 1440/4K display and then Vega should perform better. the 64 has no chance of getting a recomendation from me though, its just really not worth it over the 56 or the 1080

[BuckGup]

On 9/15/2017 at 4:26 PM, Biggerboot said:

Maxwell - Pascal was ~2 years so a 2018 release for Volta seems par for the course, at least from that perspective.

Except they said Volta will be a refresh of Pascal which is a refresh of Maxwell. So I only think the Titan will be the new Volta