Australian Gov't unveils plans to gain access to encrypted messages

[WMGroomAK]

While I'm sure this has probably already been discussed somewhere on the forum (maybe under a different topic), ZDNet has an article about the plans of the Australian Government to compel internet companies to assist law enforcement with decrypting messages with end to end encryption.  What makes this even better is that in a statement that the Australian PM gave to ZDNet, he assured them that the Australian Laws prevail over the laws of Mathematics.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-laws-of-australia-will-trump-the-laws-of-mathematics-turnbull/

Quote

Regardless of what the laws of mathematics state around breaking into end-to-end encryption, the Australian government is determined to bring in laws that go against them, with the Prime Minister of Australia telling ZDNet that the laws produced in Canberra are able to trump the laws of mathematics

 

"The laws of Australia prevail in Australia, I can assure you of that," he said on Friday. "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."

 

On Friday, the government unveiled plans to introduce legislation this year that would force internet companies to assist law enforcement in decrypting messages sent with end-to-end encryption.

 

The package will also contain authority for the Australian Federal Police to "remotely monitor computer networks and devices", a power currently possessed by the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, and force handset makers to help authorities break into devices they sell.

...

In recent weeks, as Australia has ramped up its rhetoric around encryption, Turnbull has repeatedly stated the country is not interested in backdoors.

 

Under questioning from journalists, Turnbull gave his definition of a backdoor.

 

"A back door is typically a flaw in a software program that perhaps the -- you know, the developer of the software program is not aware of and that somebody who knows about it can exploit," he said. "And, you know, if there are flaws in software programs, obviously, that's why you get updates on your phone and your computer all the time."

 

"So we're not talking about that. We're talking about lawful access."

As was noted in a WCCF article of all places, this is not really going to accomplish anything but undermine legitimate use of end to end encrypted communications as groups conducting illegal activities can easily transfer over to different services or even use open-source encryption.  Honestly though, this has given me a new favorite quote from a politician.

 

http://wccftech.com/australia-snoopers-charter-encryption/

[tlink]

1 minute ago, WMGroomAK said:

The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia.

this is what alternative facts are.

[themctipers]

send messages using shortwave radio but using what sounds to be static at slightly increased volume over the background noise and making it encrypted 

 

[MadyTehWolfie]

Good thing I dont live in Australia with this crap law. 

[PlayStation 2]

Y'all fuckin complainin' about net neutrality, but this is what we don't have to deal with here in America.

[Delicieuxz]

26 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Y'all fuckin complainin' about net neutrality, but this is what we don't have to deal with here in America.

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/26/australian_govt_promises_to_push_five_eyes_nations_to_break_encryption/

 

"The Five Eyes nations - the UK, United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - have an agreement to gather and share intelligence, and are meeting this week to discuss national security.

 

Talks are expected to focus on how to force tech companies to introduce back-doors into their previously encrypted products."

 

Hopefully the nations other than Australia don't pursue this approach, though. And I think that forcing no encryption would be violating a right to privacy, security of the person, or unreasonable search... something in those areas.

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/26/australian_govt_promises_to_push_five_eyes_nations_to_break_encryption/

 

"The Five Eyes nations - the UK, United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand - have an agreement to gather and share intelligence, and are meeting this week to discuss national security.

 

Talks are expected to focus on how to force tech companies to introduce back-doors into their previously encrypted products."

 

Hopefully the other nations other than Australia don't pursue this approach, though.

oh boy

[Leonard]

11 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Good thing I dont live in Australia with this crap law. 

and you think this will save you?....https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Tricked-Its-Customers-Into-Opposing-Net-Neutrality-139952

 

the internet is getting set to go kaput!

[Teddy07]

13 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

Good thing I dont live in Australia with this crap law. 

Every country has its own stupid laws.

 

My country Germany for example recently passed anti free speech law.

[MadyTehWolfie]

4 minutes ago, Leonard said:

and you think this will save you?....https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATT-Tricked-Its-Customers-Into-Opposing-Net-Neutrality-139952

 

the internet is getting set to go kaput!

 

1 minute ago, Teddy07 said:

Every country has its own stupid laws.

 

My country Germany for example recently passed anti free speech law.

Sad sad day for the free people of the world I hope non of this shit comes full force to the USA

[Leonard]

1 minute ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

 

Sad sad day for the free people of the world I hope non of this shit comes full force to the USA

It will as COMCAST was also doing the exact same thing AT&T was doing this weekend and that are the major players, my country uses AT&T for cellular roaming and some internet servers in Miami. The free people do not stand a chance because we don't have a voice. I really don't fully blame the ISPs because there are those whom just wants to see the world burn and they do shit that affects us all as if the speak for me.

[MadyTehWolfie]

Just now, Leonard said:

It will as COMCAST was also doing the exact same thing AT&T was doing this weekend and that are the major players, my country uses AT&T for cellular roaming and some internet servers in Miami. The free people do not stand a chance because we don't have a voice. I really don't fully blame the ISPs because there are those whom just wants to see the world burn and they do shit that affects us all as if the speak for me.

Good thing I dont use any of those comcast sucks and AT&T is crap in my area

[captain_to_fire]

29 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

What makes this even better is that in a statement that the Australian PM gave to ZDNet, he assured them that the Australian Laws prevail over the laws of Mathematics.

If lying to himself makes him feel better then he should go for it and live in bubble. 

31 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

Regardless of what the laws of mathematics state around breaking into end-to-end encryption, the Australian government is determined to bring in laws that go against them, with the Prime Minister of Australia telling ZDNet that the laws produced in Canberra are able to trump the laws of mathematics

 

"The laws of Australia prevail in Australia, I can assure you of that," he said on Friday. "The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia."

The only way that this could be possible if: 

1. Companies use out of date encryption protocols like using PPTP instead of OpenVPN. PPTP is a VPN protocol used to secure dial up connections for Windows 95 and beyond but there are demonstrations that PPTP can be cracked in minutes. 
2. Forcing websites not to use HTTPS. 
3. Forcing companies to hand over decryption keys to Australian government. 

That's all I can think of...

[WMGroomAK]

3 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

The only way that this could be possible if: 

1. Companies use out of date encryption protocols like using PPTP instead of OpenVPN. PPTP is a VPN protocol used to secure dial up connections for Windows 95 and beyond but there are demonstrations that PPTP can be cracked in minutes. 
2. Forcing websites not to use HTTPS. 
3. Forcing companies to hand over decryption keys to Australian government. 

That's all I can think of...

In a BBC Article, a computer science professor at Surrey University thinks that for this to work, the companies will either need to weaken their encryption or change their technical architecture.  So you probably have most of the methods covered...  

 

The problem is, unless the companies hand over their encryption keys or weaken the encryption to the point that it's pointless, then there really is no viable way to enact this kind of legislation since it is end-to-end encryption they are talking about.  You add to this that most governments have a poor track record of keeping their computer systems secure and if they do get the encryption keys, it'll probably be leaked to the public within a year.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-40606493

[Master Disaster]

[mr moose]

He's just parroting his advisors here,  The real problem is wanting to be able to circumvent encryption, not that he doesn't fully understand the difference between an intentional backdoor and an exploit.

 

 

Not too sure how this is going to achieve anything given very few people they want to target are going to use an encryption their ISP/phone manufacturer can unlock.  I guess at the end of the day information is power, and in this day and age controlling the internet is controlling the information. 

 

[sazrocks]

Lol so they’re going to ban https? 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, sazrocks said:

Lol so they’re going to ban https? 

No, but they might ban phones that don't have a way for them to access encrypted data or block certain traffic like p2p services that don't have a "backdoor".

[Lurick]

Stupid is the law of the universe. No matter what you do to stop it, stupid will always find a way to prevail and ruin everything.

[sazrocks]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No, but they might ban phones that don't have a way for them to access encrypted data or block certain traffic like p2p services that don't have a "backdoor".

Sooo, https? The article refers to end to end encryption, which is exactly what https is.

[DildorTheDecent]

1 hour ago, Teddy07 said:

My country Germany for example recently passed anti free speech law.

y tho

 

 

[mr moose]

Just now, sazrocks said:

Sooo, https? The article refers to end to end encryption, which is exactly what https is.

Most news articles and politicians use generic terms when explaining what they want, but that doesn't mean they are targeting every single thing that fits that term. 

 

I highly doubt they are going to block HTTPS,  given nearly every bank and government website requires it to run securely. 

 

 

 

[sazrocks]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Most news articles and politicians use generic terms when explaining what they want, but that doesn't mean they are targeting every single thing that fits that term. 

 

I highly doubt they are going to block HTTPS,  given nearly every bank and government website requires it to run securely. 

 

 

 

Hence my gif.

Then again, I would have highly doubted that the P.M. would have said “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia.”

[mr moose]

Just now, sazrocks said:

Hence my gif.

Then again, I would have highly doubted that the P.M. would have said “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia.”

 

That comment makes sense though,  the law will trump that of mathematics becasue if they can't decode it they will ban it.  Trumping doesn't necessarily mean  changing the laws of math, it means winning by bypassing the obstacle.   In this case the obstacle seems to be phone encryption.

[Serin]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

He's just parroting his advisors here,  The real problem is wanting to be able to circumvent encryption, not that he doesn't fully understand the difference between an intentional backdoor and an exploit.

 

 

Not too sure how this is going to achieve anything given very few people they want to target are going to use an encryption their ISP/phone manufacturer can unlock.  I guess at the end of the day information is power, and in this day and age controlling the internet is controlling the information. 

 

As I understand it this is more about encryption apps and the like - programs that ASIO has evidently noticed are being used by people of interest to our security agency.
So far as I can tell the proposal is to get a court order, present that to the developer of whatever software is in question then have them provide a key or perhaps a log of on-going communications.
ASIO's stated that something like 60% of their current watch list involves encryption, so I don't consider it a terrible thought to be able ask the courts for permission to access.
Much better I think than the alternative "just build a backdoor into everything" like the yanks seem to be fond of.
The alternative of simply allowing means of communication for bastards that we really ought not be fond of is... rather odd, considering that we already have laws designed for the interception of phones et al. 

This of course coming from someone who is decidedly not a fan of Turnbull's lack of courage or indeed his party of christian fanatics.