Rumor: Nvidia’s Pascal Architecture Is In Trouble With Asynchronous Compute

[Mr_Troll]

Rumor: Nvidia’s Pascal Architecture Is In Trouble With Asynchronous Compute

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According to a report published by Bitsandchips.it, Nvidia’s upcoming Pascal architecture will not be significantly better at Async Compute than its predecessor (Maxwell). Needless to say, this one is 100% a rumor and should be taken with a grain of salt. Pascal architecture will be landing sometime later this year and improves upon Maxwell with far better FP64 support amongst a plethora of other things. The report further mentions that Nvidia is hoping to win this round by raw performance numbers alone.

 

Pascal architecture allegedly facing difficulty with asynchronous compute

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Asynchronous compute has been a deal sweetener for Radeon buyers ever since the DirectX 12 API hit the stage. AMD is currently leading in all DirectX 12 benchmarks available on the market right now and this is solely due to the fact that its GPUs can process ASync concurrently. Interestingly, Nvidia GPUs perform much better without ASync turned on. This is probably due to the fact that Nvidia has disabled ASync from their driver suite due to the fact that its GPUs cannot process ASync concurrently on the hardware level, rather they need context switching which is expensive in terms of frame rate. Geforce GPUs instead rely on a technique called pre-emption. Which is why you see frame rates actually being unpredictable when ASync is forced.

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On the other hand, Maxwell remains the only architecture on the discrete GPU market right now which supports DirectX 12 Feature Level 12_1 (Radeon cards only extend up to Feature Level 12_0). This will allow existing Geforce cards to use advanced rendering techniques made available by Direct3D 12 that will not be available to AMD users. VXGI/VXAO and Hybrid Ray Traced Shadows are examples of such a feature. So on both sides of the fence, whether you are in the red camp or in the green camp, there is an upside and a down side. Pascal and Polaris however, were supposed to bridge this gap and unify full compatibility of DirectX 12. Before we let that train of thought run away however, there is one thing we must keep in mind, the entire point of features like ASync is to maximize the use of a GPU’s resources to allow the maximum possible performance

 

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One reason that we think that this rumor might be true is the fact that chip design isn’t something that happens overnight. In fact, it takes an architecture many years to go from the drawing board to hit the shelves. Asynchronous Compute was hyped and became a major point of interest in the last year, which is most definitely not enough time for Nvidia to do anything about it. If Asynchronous Compute wasn’t something that was a focus when the Pascal chips were initially designed – then there is nothing Nvidia can do about it at this late in the game. The report further mentions that Nvidia also recently pushed its entire GameWorks SDK into the public domain via GitHub which could be seen as a move to make sure that all games that utilize its technology are fully optimized to leverage Nvidai GPU capabilities (No ASync + Bad Game Optimization = Bad Combo).

This article does have point. From the looks of it Pascal is basically maxwell 2.0 with improved FP 64 performance.  Why would nvidia all of a sudden release the entire Gameworks code to the public if they kept it hidden  for years? Nvidia is will  try to overcome the lack of async compute  by raw power  / cuda cores etc./

 

Source: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-trouble-asynchronous-compute/

 http://www.bitsandchips.it/52-english-news

[SurvivorNVL]

Though Pascal has been in the works for a very long time and they plan their releases around feature-sets.  But if they don't have it--then that will be incredible.  We may see a year where AMD could snatch it all up and make a huge come-back.  It's like a Christmas miracle!

[CTR640]

While I own a GTX780 and it serves me very well, I am very glad nVidia is in big trouble if this is true.

nVidia has been horrible the past years. With the way how they skimp down the performance and their shit GimpWorks.

 

4 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Though Pascal has been in the works for a very long time and they plan their releases around feature-sets.  But if they don't have it--then that will be incredible.  We may see a year where AMD could snatch it all up and make a huge come-back.  It's like a Christmas miracle!

 

Exactly! Hopefully AC is completely broken in Pascal and AMD can finally get back in the game!

Competition is always good for us.

[zMeul]

5 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

nVidia has been horrible the past years. With the way how they skimp down the performance and their shit GimpWorks.

you do know you can switch off nVidia GameWorks related stuff, don't you

[Fetzie]

Just now, zMeul said:

you do know you can switch off nVidia GameWorks related stuff, don't you

But that's not The Way It's Meant To Be Played

[CTR640]

28 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

20 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

But that's not The Way It's Meant To Be Played

Though Pascal has been in the works for a very long time and they plan their releases around feature-sets.  But if they don't have it--then that will be incredible.  We may see a year where AMD could snatch it all up and make a huge come-back.  It's like a Christmas miracle!

Good pun lol.

 

And it recently has been tested the 280X is outperforming the GTX780. Yeah, typically nVidia gimping down the older cards.

That's why this GTX780 will be the last nVidia card ever I bought. Hopefully AMD will be able to do 4k/60 on GTAV maxed out.

That would be awesome.

[Prysin]

35 minutes ago, zMeul said:

you do know you can switch off nVidia GameWorks related stuff, don't you

Some of the stuff. Not all. Not always 

[Citadelen]

I expected this, Nvidia probably didn't expect many developers to use Async, these rumors probably started because Nvidia tried to tape it on at the end, and to didn't work very well, that's my take.

[Bouzoo]

I don't think NV will have issues with async computing, but that's just me.

[i_build_nanosuits]

12 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Ofcourse it's toxic. If you are obsessed over one brand or the other 

Maxwell remains the only architecture on the discrete GPU market right now which supports DirectX 12 Feature Level 12_1 (Radeon cards only extend up to Feature Level 12_0). This will allow existing Geforce cards to use advanced rendering techniques made available by Direct3D 12 that will not be available to AMD users. VXGI/VXAO and Hybrid Ray Traced Shadows are examples of such a feature. So on both sides of the fence, whether you are in the red camp or in the green camp, there is an upside and a down side.

[Coaxialgamer]

I want AMD to suceed  , but people have to remember that if pascal is absolutely terrible and doesn't sell , AMD could pull a titan and basically charge what they want for everything and anything . People need to realize these are companies we are talking about .

 

And considering AMD needs money , i'm sure they would jack up the prices of their products if they had the chance

[PlayStation 2]

I'm not sure if this is surprising or shocking or neither.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Just now, Coaxialgamer said:

I want AMD to suceed  , but people have to remember that if pascal is absolutely terrible and doesn't sell , AMD could pull a titan and basically charge what they want for everything and anything . People need to realize these are companies we are talking about .

 

And considering AMD needs money , i'm sure they would jack up the prices of their products if they had the chance

we are still FAR from such a scenario...nvidia still has the upper hand at every level.

[Coaxialgamer]

Just now, i_build_nanosuits said:

we are still FAR from such a scenario...nvidia still has the upper hand at every level.

i know , just saying they could do it. My main point was that AMD can be just as bad asnvidia and intel if they want to .

 

People on the forum always look at AMD as "the good guy" , but in reality AMD is a company and won't hesitate to screw us over if they can.

 

EDit : this is of course a hypothetical scenario. I don't think AMD could gain a significant advantage over nvidia , considering nvidia has the laptop market , and a dedicated fanbase.

[Citadelen]

2 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

we are still FAR from such a scenario...nvidia still has the upper hand at every level.

Umm, what?

[MEC-777]

4 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

we are still FAR from such a scenario...nvidia still has the upper hand at every level.

Lol, no they don't.

[i_build_nanosuits]

17 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

Umm, what?

 

14 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Lol, no they don't.

lol ok...

by that i meant that AMD is broke as fuck and their hot running power hungry outdated radeon cards with GCN does NOT sell...and they can't afford to sponsor much game developers anymore...therefore not many games can take advantage of all that raw useless teraflops of compute horsepower and it will very likely still be the same with async compute and all that fuzzy shit you youngsters love to beat the drum about all over the place. it's irrelevant. if it doesn't work on nvidia GPU's, it doesn't work at all...end of the story.

So you better pray that nvidia will get their shit togheter and offer full support for async compute, otherwise your radeon cards are screwed in 9 games out of 10.

Nvidia still hold over 80% of the GPU market share last time i checked, and what? 80-90% of the AAA titles that have come out this year and in 2014-2015 had been supported by nvidia in some way or another and most of them now feature gameworks stuff whether you like it or not it's A FACT..and this is all a result of AMD being broke as fuck and offering old re-brew of their old technologies hoping it will someday pay off...saving money and hoping it turns out for the best...this is the AMD philosophy...and it doesn't work in tech, never has, never will...you have to be a front runner, who invest and develop new technologies.

 

EDIT: ^^ i'm quite proud of that one actually, i think it should get a few like and a few thumbs up and maybe...well, you know that's how it is, that's how it goes...that's life...it's sucks, might not be the best for consumers, but that,s how it is...you can rally with the weak all you want, but i wont.

Edited March 25, 2016 by i_build_nanosuits

[stealth80]

For 10 years or so I've always just switched between the 2x camps starting with an Athlon 64 processor, moving to a X2 before they went down hill and ive been Intel since FX was released.

 

Again for GPU's ive switched, 9800pro, 6800Ultra, 5870 pro, 670gtx, 280X vapour X and now my 970, however ..... I have just bought a G-sync monitor so Nvidia better sort this async compute shit out, and even if they don't, (people forget this) games are still completely playable with it disabled

[MEC-777]

1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

 

lol ok...

by that i meant that AMD is broke as fuck and their hot running power hungry outdated radeon cards with GCN does NOT sell...and they can't afford to sponsor much game developers anymore...therefore not many games can take advantage of all that raw useless teraflops of compute horsepower and it will very likely still be the same with async compute and all that fuzzy shit you youngsters love to beat the drum about all over the place. it's irrelevant. if it doesn't work on nvidia GPU's, it doesn't work at all...end of the story.

Nvidia still hold over 80% of the GPU market share last time i checked.

Sales aren't great for AMD and their funding is limited. That much is true. As for everything else; you're mostly wrong. Sorry. 

 

And please don't call me a youngster - I'm the same age as you.  

 

[i_build_nanosuits]

Just now, MEC-777 said:

Sales aren't great for AMD and their funding is limited. That much is true. As for everything else; you're mostly wrong. Sorry. 

 

And please don't call me a youngster - I'm the same age as you.  

 

post was edited after you quoted it

[Sakkura]

Fanboy wars erupting again is no surprise. I just wonder if it's a coincidence that it happens in a thread posted by, well, @Mr_Troll

[Notional]

Just now, stealth80 said:

For 10 years or so I've always just switched between the 2x camps starting with an Athlon 64 processor, moving to a X2 before they went down hill and ive been Intel since FX was released.

 

Again for GPU's ive switched, 9800pro, 6800Ultra, 5870 pro, 670gtx, 280X vapour X and now my 970, however ..... I have just bought a G-sync monitor so Nvidia better sort this async compute shit out, and even if they don't, (people forget this) games are still completely playable with it disabled

So what you're saying is that you can't continue to switch between graphics vendors, because you are now invested in a Gsync monitor?

Now you know what vendor lock in is, and why it's anti competitive. What you are experiencing is called high switching costs, where it's not just a case of buying a new card, but having to replace other things as well, in this case a gsync monitor.

 

I've warned about this in here for over a year.

 

For the consumers sake, I hope NVidia drops the ball, trips and smashes their face into the ground trying to catch it. We need proper competition, and I truly hope AMD will gain huge market share this year and next. With DX12 and Vulkan, which AMD has been so active in shaping, I think that might very well be possible. With things like async compute, and potent hardware, that is not completely dependable on driver optimizations, we already know AMD cards perform for a long time. Hopefully NVidia users seeking to upgrade their 700 series cards are fed up with the planned obsolescence, making their premium prices hardware, crap after just a year or two.

[MEC-777]

11 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

post was edited after you quoted it

And you seem to have added in even more false claims/comments. 

25 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

 

lol ok...

by that i meant that AMD is broke as fuck and their hot running power hungry outdated radeon cards with GCN does NOT sell...and they can't afford to sponsor much game developers anymore...therefore not many games can take advantage of all that raw useless teraflops of compute horsepower and it will very likely still be the same with async compute and all that fuzzy shit you youngsters love to beat the drum about all over the place. it's irrelevant. if it doesn't work on nvidia GPU's, it doesn't work at all...end of the story.

So you better pray that nvidia will get their shit togheter and offer full support for async compute, otherwise your radeon cards are screwed in 9 games out of 10.

Nvidia still hold over 80% of the GPU market share last time i checked, and what? 80-90% of the AAA titles that have come out this year and in 2014-2015 had been supported by nvidia in some way or another and most of them now feature gameworks stuff whether you like it or not it's A FACT..and this is all a result of AMD being broke as fuck and offering old re-brew of their old technologies hoping it will someday pay off...saving money and hoping it turns out for the best...this is the AMD philosophy...and it doesn't work in tech, never has, never will...you have to be a front runner, who invest and develop new technologies.

 

EDIT: ^^ i'm quite proud of that one actually, i think it should get a few like and a few thumbs up and maybe...well, you know that's how it is, that's how it goes...that's life...it's sucks, might not be the best for consumers, but that,s how it is...you can rally with the weak all you want, but i wont.

You seem to have forgotten the fact that even though many games are sponsored by Nvidia, they still run really well on AMD hardware. And this continuous jabbing at "old radeon tech" you keep making is mostly irrelevant. Why? Because even AMD's aged GPUs still compete just fine with the latest from Nvidia. (See 390 vs 970 etc.) 

 

You don't seem to be considering the relevance of the products themselves. 

[i_build_nanosuits]

1 minute ago, MEC-777 said:

You don't seem to be considering the relevance of the products themselves. 

how relevant is a GPU when it's NOT directly supported by 90% of the game developers out there is the question YOU should ask yourself...and provide me with an answer.

...and don't come with the 970, it's a weak ass card with not enough compute cores that's why it's not as fast as a 300W radeon beast.

[Zodiark1593]

I cannot nod in agreement with anyone wishing the failure of either AMD or Nvidia. I want both companies to bring forth excellent products. Competitive products drive down prices and bring forth superior products more quickly. And high profits on both sides will aid in above goals. 

 

That said, I don't think lack of Async will he an issue for Nvidia as Maxwell seem to be pretty fully utilized to begin with. Unless there's a fair amount of headroom, Async won't be able to add much even if the hardware was there.