AMD accuses BAPCo and Intel of cheating with Sysmark benchmarks

[Luke]

No, because it is desperate to go for these tactics. Regardless of which brand is doing it.

 

Is it though? If there was a Mustang VS Camaro head to head and the people sponsoring the video decided to only do tests to emphasize the strengths of the Mustang would it be unreasonable for Chevy to speak out on the matter?

 

That's an extreme example but if this benchmark truly is bias towards intel CPU's then it only seems logical to let people know. We should look into the matter for ourselves rather than posting unfounded comments calling it desperate bull shit but that's just my opinion.

[Dabombinable]

Is it though? If there was a Mustang VS Camaro head to head and the people sponsoring the video decided to only do tests to emphasize the strengths of the Mustang would it be unreasonable for Chevy to speak out on the matter?

 

That's an extreme example but if this benchmark truly is bias towards intel CPU's then it only seems logical to let people know. We should look into the matter for ourselves rather than posting unfounded comments calling it desperate bull shit but that's just my opinion.

Look at it this way, Intel doesn't need to cheat in a benchmark to have a system with their CPU outperform by a large margin AMD CPU from the same price bracket.

[Luke]

Look at it this way, Intel doesn't need to cheat in a benchmark to have a system with their CPU outperform by a large margin AMD CPU from the same price bracket.

 

Are you're implying that they didn't cheat because of that reason? Or are you just saying that they don't need to?

 

If there's a benchmark that is bias towards intel's CPU's whether it's intentional or not it needs to be addressed if people are using it as a tool to directly compare one CPU to another. That's all it really comes down to.

[Dabombinable]

Are you implying that they didn't cheat because of that reason? Or are you just saying that they don't need to?

 

If there's a benchmark that is bias towards intel's CPU's whether it's intentional or not it needs to be addressed if people are using it as a tool to directly compare one CPU to another. That's all it really comes down to.

You missed the point. AMD is just crying wolf because of their CPU sucking ass. AMD is only complaining because they want to try and improve the image of their current CPU before they release Zen. And that's not going to happen when a 2011 Phenom II N970 barely beats (read-with in margin of error) a 2011 i5 540m multithreaded, and gets creamed single threaded. And remember-that's in all tasks.

Unsurprisingly, five years later, AMD’s complaints are the same. In the company’s video, Hampton says: “There is an excessive amount of high CPU tasking being done (in SYSMark). That is, the benchmark is really only evaluating the CPU side of the system.”

AMD is just crying because they've been making shit CPU. They know that their CPU are shit but don't want customers to see that fact.

[-rascal-]

Are you're implying that they didn't cheat because of that reason? Or are you just saying that they don't need to?

 

If there's a benchmark that is bias towards intel's CPU's whether it's intentional or not it needs to be addressed if people are using it as a tool to directly compare one CPU to another. That's all it really comes down to.

 

I somewhat agree with your argument there.

 

A better example would probably be...a game of NFL football (or Hockey for us Canadians   ).

The referee / linesman is just throwing random penalties towards one specific team.

Uhh...yep 1st down? Nope 3rd down now. Ehh...false start, back 5 yards...another 5 yards back...touchdown didn't count; redo.

 

I don't think they can blame Intel directly until there is more evidence to support the claim. Heck, it may not even be Intel's fault -- but purely BAPCo instead.

 

Remember, AMD can't die -- Intel won't let them.

Intel owns x86, but AMD owns x64.

x64 needs x86 and vice-versa...hence why x86-64 is shared between both Intel and AMD.

If AMD dies...well your "Skylake-E" i7-6950X will have to be a 32-bit CPU.

 

This is why there was that talk about the "agreement" between Intel and AMD over the summer. If AMD does fall, and get bought up by...IBM (or whoever), their current x86-x64 "agreement" immediately becomes void. If this happens, AMD's graphics department will continue to live...as a separate entity -- 'Radeon Technologies Group'

[PerfectTemplar]

Or they're just calling out Sysmark for their benchmark being bias towards intel? If that's the case then it could be problematic for their new CPU release but if not then feel free to speak up and let us know.

It's very unlikely to be true, AMD CPUs are worse in all benchmarks compared to their closest Intel competitors. There would be zero reason for intel to cheat on one benchmark. This is just AMD clutching at straws. Their CPU market is dying due to their poor performance and terrible management.

[Demonking]

It is. If Zen disappointed due to rigged benchmarks it would be seen as desperate whining

Zen is already a disappointment. Its stated to be on Haswell level not even skylake so it's coming in with an L. 

[Demonking]

So AMD are babies even thought 10 of your fellow citizens found them guilty before? AMD who has has been abused in this way before is wrong to be concerned that it will continue now? Please don't be dumb to think that Intel will not do whatever they can to WIN at all costs a fine of a billion dollars means nothing to Intel if the kill AMD.

"Please don't be dumb to think that Intel will not do whatever they can to WIN at all costs " WTF you talking about they are already winning.

[HKZeroFive]

Zen is already a disappointment. Its stated to be on Haswell level not even skylake so it's coming in with an L. 

 

That's not the point of Zen. AMD knows that, Intel knows that.

 

It's supposed to be an alternative to Intel's offerings while also making AMD somewhat relevant again in the CPU market. I'd expect prices to lower when Zen hits and some competition.

 

I'd take Zen over Bulldozer any day of the week if it was on par with Haswell.

[Demonking]

You missed the point. AMD is just crying wolf because of their CPU sucking ass. AMD is only complaining because they want to try and improve the image of their current CPU before they release Zen. And that's not going to happen when a 2011 Phenom II N970 barely beats (read-with in margin of error) a 2011 i5 540m multithreaded, and gets creamed single threaded. And remember-that's in all tasks.

 

 

AMD is just crying because they've been making shit CPU. They know that their CPU are shit but don't want customers to see that fact.

Dude when AMD don't even use their own CPU's to test their high end GPU's, That in itself tells me it sucks & they know it sucks. also project spartan an AMD product uses a 4790K.

[B NEGATIVE]

This has been going on for years and its totally true,The FTC even backed AMD up.

 

So,its not "what the hell AMD?".......More like " What the hell,you fools have only just picked up on this....."

[Demonking]

That's not the point of Zen. AMD knows that, Intel knows that.

 

It's supposed to be an alternative to Intel's offerings while also making AMD somewhat relevant again in the CPU market. I'd expect prices to lower when Zen hits and some competition.

 

I'd take Zen over Bulldozer any day of the week if it was on par with Haswell.

lower prices when AMD CEO came out & said we are tired of being know as the cheaper solution. she didn't say cheaper & better solution. 

[HKZeroFive]

lower prices when AMD CEO came out & said we are tired of being know as the cheaper solution. she didn't say cheaper & better solution. 

 

Competition is going to be a large factor and prices will be affected. For once, Intel is not going to have a virtual monopoly if Zen actually turns out to be decent.

 

Never said they were going to be the better solution. Intel and AMD both know that.

[bbqsauce]

lower prices when AMD CEO came out & said we are tired of being know as the cheaper solution. she didn't say cheaper & better solution. 

pretty sure everyone knew that Zen will not top Intel's offering. it would be quite a feat if they actually do. 

Being relevant =/= top tier

Having a Zen cpu with say an i5 haswell level of performance at a reasonable pricing will make AMD somewhat relevant again. 

With maybe a higher tier cpu to compete with the i7s and extreme editions but frankly those will not likely beat out intel's offering. 

Pretty sure AMD is not thinking of turning around their company image with a single architecture release. It will just be the first step.

In my mind what's important is to become relevant once again and gain back some market share, then the pricing war can start.

[Demonking]

pretty sure everyone knew that Zen will not top Intel's offering. it would be quite a feat if they actually do. 

Being relevant =/= top tier

Having a Zen cpu with say an i5 haswell level of performance at a reasonable pricing will make AMD somewhat relevant again. 

With maybe a higher tier cpu to compete with the i7s and extreme editions but frankly those will not likely beat out intel's offering. 

Pretty sure AMD is not thinking of turning around their company image with a single architecture release. It will just be the first step.

In my mind what's important is to become relevant once again and gain back some market share, then the pricing war can start.

& all Intel got to do is lower the price of the haswell CPU's and maybe skylake as well making zen useless along with making AMD irrelevant again. I don't want haswell level AMD cpu's i want better than skylake. AMD need to be aiming better not 1 or 2 step behind.

[HKZeroFive]

& all Intel got to do is lower the price of the haswell CPU's and maybe skylake as well making zen useless along with making AMD irrelevant again. I don't want haswell level AMD cpu's i want better than skylake. AMD need to be aiming better not 1 or 2 step behind.

 

Let's be realistic. AMD isn't going to be suddenly better than Intel.

 

I doubt Intel would try to make Zen irrelevant straight from the get-go. If Intel's going to lower prices, AMD's gotta lower prices. It's about competition, not trying to kill AMD off.

 

Plus, Intel still dominates the high-end range for now. Zen is all about making AMD relevant.

[PerfectTemplar]

That's not the point of Zen. AMD knows that, Intel knows that.

 

It's supposed to be an alternative to Intel's offerings while also making AMD somewhat relevant again in the CPU market. I'd expect prices to lower when Zen hits and some competition.

 

I'd take Zen over Bulldozer any day of the week if it was on par with Haswell.

If Zen has Haswell performance it will only be relevant if it's significantly cheaper than Skylake. 

[bbqsauce]

& all Intel got to do is lower the price of the haswell CPU's and maybe skylake as well making zen useless along with making AMD irrelevant again. I don't want haswell level AMD cpu's i want better than skylake. AMD need to be aiming better not 1 or 2 step behind.

asking AMD to do such a leap is pretty much impossible with 1 iteration.

Its a new architecture and catching up to haswell level is already pretty decent in my mind. sure they still got a long ways to go, but they can't just flip the table like that.

Lets be honest here, how much of a real noticeable difference is haswell vs skylake anyway? Its there but its not like the early days anymore. Marginal improvements per generation. Even a sandy bridge cpu is still pretty relevant today. Heck i'm still using my i7-965ee.

 

We gotta be realistic here, if you expect that much you will just be disappointed. Pretty sure Intel could've squished AMD anytime they wanted to in the past few years, but they dont want to do that.  

[Prysin]

Most of the difference between Haswell and skylake is due to ddr4 more than ipc

[HKZeroFive]

If Zen has Haswell performance it will only be relevant if it's significantly cheaper than Skylake. 

 

The performance difference between the two is pretty minimal. If AMD can match Haswell and sell it around that price, that's enough for me. Plus, Zen has DDR4 whereas Haswell doesn't.

[Elapo]

Cinebench? Video rendering?

 

Pretty sure a 2600k is faster at those than an 8350

[Sauron]

this is precisely why are they doing it; if Zen turns out to be meh, their already dwindling market share will get even smaller

they're going after BAPCo because AMD has huge issues in the business/enterprise sector - no one is taking them seriously

 

 

do you recall a company called SeaMicro?

well, AMD brought them back in 2012 to allow them to penetrate dense mico-server market

fast forward to 2015 - AMD announces it's exit from said market  :lol:

 

 

and the latest development with their ARM based Opterons ...

 

 

again, who says they aren't right?

[Majestic]

Is it though? If there was a Mustang VS Camaro head to head and the people sponsoring the video decided to only do tests to emphasize the strengths of the Mustang would it be unreasonable for Chevy to speak out on the matter?

 

That's an extreme example but if this benchmark truly is bias towards intel CPU's then it only seems logical to let people know. We should look into the matter for ourselves rather than posting unfounded comments calling it desperate bull shit but that's just my opinion.

 

Yet Another Car Analogy (YACA). 

 

And somewhat yes, many programms still benefit from single threaded performance. Mainly the programms people use alot. Like Office, Browsers, games, photoshop...etc.

So it's not unfair to make your test emphasise this. Now I don't know the inner workings of PCmark, but I damn well know I have never based my decision on that benchmark. And I don't know anyone who ever will..

 

So it's just another smearcampaign. Like someone else already mentioned, they're trying to create an enviroment before they release Zen. Trying to get emotional purchases out of people, and I don't blame them because rational-choice never buys you AMD's products. I'm sorry, but it's true. In every aspect they're objectively worse, AMD only mangages to trade blows in a few area's.

 

This is just like EA going "yea we screwed up on Battlefield 4" JUST before releasing hardline. Scoring karmapoints to get people to buy their new product.

[Sauron]

Oh my God, really? AMD has lied through their teeth before. I want solid proof and Richard Huddy 10 miles from the scene before I believe a word of this. BAPCo prides itself on its integrity; and for all of Intel's influence, there are (iirc) 9 other members? AMD is using Intel's guilt under Otellini against them. Kirzanich is nothing like him, but victimhood sells. Proof or go home. AMD should put its money where it's mouth is and sue. Otherwise there is 0 reason to believe them outside independent review.

 

Uh... intel has lied through their teeth before too... in fact they have lied about very similar things to what they're being accused of right now. Of course I don't know if it's true or not, but just dismissing it as amd "playing victim" is unfair. As for a lawsuit, maybe that will come, but remember the pentium 4 lawsuit? Amd doesn't really have the money to engage in a 12 year suit with intel.

 

What I find irritating is that you KNOW if this was intel accusing amd everyone would be jumping at amd's throat with no proof.

[zMeul]

It's supposed to be an alternative to Intel's offerings

AMD has't been an alternative since god knows when

and BAPCo's Sysmark is not a consumer grade benchmark, it aimed at enterprise clients - market sector where AMD lost big time

 

how can AMD still claim to be taken seriously when they show systems with Intel CPUs, remember that Project Quantum at E3 last year? it used a Intel platform: https://www.techpowerup.com/213682/amd-doesnt-trust-its-own-processors-project-quantum-driven-by-intel-core-i7-4790k.html