What do people hate about Apple?

[Canada EH]

Gotta spread the hate out evenly

[bobhays]

41 minutes ago, wontruefree said:

I would say there are multiple professions where Mac is better OS not just being an artist.

Ok sure, but why? Before the different desktops was a huge workflow improvement but now windows has that too. I'm genuinely curious why OS X might be better. I need a reason to try it.

[Canada EH]

Less Virus'

[wontruefree]

18 minutes ago, bobhays said:

Ok sure, but why? Before the different desktops was a huge workflow improvement but now windows has that too. I'm genuinely curious why OS X might be better. I need a reason to try it.

Windows has gotten BASH which is awesome but most open source web frameworks and their dependancies do not work on windows.  Also the last time I checked anything depending on llvm is really tenuous on windows.  Most of my experience is with web programming and there are windows alternatives but I have not seen or worked with companies that consider them. 

 

A lot of production software I have worked with is written for linux  and would not work on windows.  I think windows supports linux in this way I don't think they are trying to be a web platform.  But for Gaming they are amazing and I have almost always had a windows gaming rig except for these past 4 months.

 

EDIT:

The benefit of Mac OS is that it is similar enough to linux that programs are supported on both.  The actual kernel of Mac and linus is different.

 

Windows has other awesome features besides Gaming this is my primary experience because of work hardware.

Edited September 21, 2016 by wontruefree
clarification

[Mira Yurizaki]

23 minutes ago, bobhays said:

Ok sure, but why? Before the different desktops was a huge workflow improvement but now windows has that too. I'm genuinely curious why OS X might be better. I need a reason to try it.

It has to do with two things:

• The tools available
• What the user is used to

Aside from artists, there's a huge area where the Apple ecosystem is taking over is web development. Mac OS is UNIX and it uses a command line that many web developers are used to. I bought a Mac Mini for some hobbyist web work and I must say I love it. I could have saved some money putting together a basic box with Linux on it, but I at least know that the Mac Mini, right out of the box, has everything I need ready to go. And the few things that it doesn't have I can do with some command line magic.

 

Plus UNIX and its conventions are pretty simple to use once you get the hang of it. Even though Windows has bash support, it's not going to turn the NT kernel into a UNIX-like environment.

[bobhays]

2 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

It has to do with two things:

• The tools available
• What the user is used to

Aside from artists, there's a huge area where the Apple ecosystem is taking over is web development. Mac OS is UNIX and it uses a command line that many web developers are used to. I bought a Mac Mini for some hobbyist web work and I must say I love it. I could have saved some money putting together a basic box with Linux on it, but I at least know that the Mac Mini, right out of the box, has everything I need ready to go. And the few things that it doesn't have I can do with some command line magic.

 

Plus UNIX and its conventions are pretty simple to use once you get the hang of it. Even though Windows has bash support, it's not going to turn the NT kernel into a UNIX-like environment.

I guess that makes more sense. It's like using a linux computer but with the user-friendly nature of an OS like windows/mac. That would definitely draw me to macs if I needed that for the work I did. As for content creators I understand some people really like Final Cut, but for designers/artists aren't both platforms practically the same. I mean photoshop/illustrator and more are on both.

[laminutederire]

19 hours ago, DocSwag said:

A lot of the time it's just people blindly yelling, "Apple r scrubs. Apple suks."

 

They don't make bad products. It's just that a lot of the DIY community doesn't buy their products because the components are so locked down.

They can't make products which aren't at least good, since they have the most expensive products in all categories (phone, computers, etc). They kinda have to make something good. It's more about being overpriced for what it is, like an apple product isn't worth its price

 

10 hours ago, bobhays said:

Just curious, what in particular makes mac OS better for artists? 

At one point mac free tools were better. Now they're outdated and people are forced to go on paid  software which windows has as well, which closed the gap for artists, hence your confusion.

[Actuatedkarma]

Apple is good at what it's trying to achieve. They market a "premium" brand and it works. People see apple, they can be assured that they are dealing with one company, and it makes everything easier for the casual consumer. Imagine not knowing anything about computers, and seeing all these different brands out there, all doing different things with computers. Then they see apple, who boast a clean OS and easy syncing options for your phone, which may very well be an iPhone.

 

Compared to the plethora of competing android phones, windows computers and such with their fancy looks and names that sound like it's a part on a spaceship, Apple provides people with "clean" and "simple". The hardest decision the consumer needs to make is whether they want a small laptop, big laptop, small desktop, big desktop and how powerful they need it.

 

Several years of this with good marketing and famous people using their products, and all of a sudden Apple is now the standard "premium computer/phone" company for the general public.

 

Now do I like Apple? Kinda. The OS is pretty stable and it generally works most of the time. Their laptops are good as a second-hand or year-old option for the casual designer/music producer.

 

TLDR: Apple makes very average products the general consumer base understands, but now Apple is synonymous with premium, much like a certain beats by Dre.... Oh, wait...

[DocSwag]

4 hours ago, laminutederire said:

They can't make products which aren't at least good, since they have the most expensive products in all categories (phone, computers, etc). They kinda have to make something good. It's more about being overpriced for what it is, like an apple product isn't worth its price

Ya that too, but not all their products are overpriced. Their tablets and smartphones are well-priced, as well as some of the cheaper laptops (I personally think the retina 13" is a pretty decent laptop). Though when you get into iMacs, Mac Pros, and retina 15"s they do start to be overpriced.

[NumLock21]

Don't hate them, but they make the most basic task a pain in the ass. Like one time I had a mbp with a stuck cd inside. On a pc all you need is a paper clip, poke into eject hole and out comes the disc.

On that pos mbp, you have try this, try that, open terminal, install softwares, blah, blah, blah. What takes 1 second for a pc, will takes hours on a mac and even $$$ when none of the methods work.

 

 

[thefinalepic]

19 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Here is the thing. Apple used to be innovative, now they photocopy ideas, and claim their own without even having a better implementation. The company doesn't have a clear direction for its OS, where its GUI is getting a mess more and more at every release, and their products, while well made, are now all about locking Apple users in, to make it very difficult to leave, and sell accessories., because Apple is loosing marketshare. They are loosing the grasp from people, as it is not able to continue to be innovative or bring interesting features.

 

Products that were first release polished, are filled with issues and that only gets worse and worse every year. Careless and have no attention to its customers its product aims at are ignored, issues are quickly hidden, draconian business model (say something bad in a review? Fine! No more review device for you. No more invited to any Apple event. You are ban for life!). The company has no proudness, and lives off its fans.

 

For example: Before, MacBook Pro, small form factor managed to put a dedicated graphics, have great battery life, backlight keyboard, solid build quality, great everything for an amazing experience, excellent cooling. Now: 1 port, nothing special, meh all around, other manufactures are more innovative, the look of the device has never been really touched to updated, and looks every year more and more outdated, doesn't bring any augmentation of the laptop with the OS (in other words, you have identical experience if you install MacOS on any other laptop).

 

That is why people are harsh with Apple. You had this company, yes their product was expensive, but ignoring that, was pushing the industry forward. Now, it is sleeping and not doing anything. Not pushing the boundary of anything. Just creating inconvenience, taking advantage of that the news media and people defend their decisions. Fine at first (I mean a product can't please everyone, and Apple has its own market in any case), but now it reached to a point that there is 0 justifications, especially that other manufactures not only has products that is better in every way, but done so way before.

 

And the reason why people are frustrated, as you don't have competition that Apple helped pushed. Like for example, nice looking systems, use other materials beside plastic, bring attention to details on product, bring new things on the table that isn't possible outside of Apple ecosystem as Apple makes both hardware and software, backlit keyboard, color calibrated displays, and more. Now... they have nothing... no innovation.. people see this massive potential in Apple, but disappointments after disappointment are only released. It is like the company started with this massive R&D lab, now it is just a team of 5 people trying to think about ideas.

 

MacBook, 1 port, over heats, nothing special, nothing new to the table, we have better and more features rich device just as thin, and subjectively better looking. The iPhone 7, the taptic engine vibrates the phones left and right making it uncomfortable to use due to the slippery metal texture they use, you feel like the phone can fall off, no headphone plug while other phones are just as thin, and more water proof have it, and have 0 compromise. Apple claims thinnest is important, but cuts battery instead of cutting display thickness, which they can a lot by switching to OLED display, especially that these days OLED has solved many of its drawbacks like: image retention, color shifting over time, low brightness, and cost.

 

Apple users should be angry, and demand more from Apple. Competition is good! Consumers who like Apple ecosystem, deserves better. Apple talent that the company had in the past was the ability to offer great experiences, new features, all in a very simple matter. Yes yes, you didn't have jam pack number of features, but that is the point. You have what most really needs. Now, to me, it feels like that they don't push innovation because they are afraid, have 0 courage to determine what should be there or not, and how to present it. Apple claiming "Courage" for removing the headphone plug is a sign that they have 0 courage. A courageous person, doesn't need to say that they are courageous. Their action defines that already. Here it doesn't. Business wise, it is great! More accessories to sell. But against consumers.

 

That is what I can conclude based on my observations currently.

He summed it up quite nicely. Can't put it better words. I dislike apple with a deep hatred as a computer enthusiast.

[ScratchCat]

I think most tech people hate Apple because non-Techies think that anything made my Apple is impecable.

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

http://www.phonearena.com/phones/compare/Apple-iPhone-6,Samsung-Galaxy-S5/phones/8346,8202

Thats why

The S5 is months older then the 6, its faster, has better processing, and has much better hardware. But the 6s is 849 DOLLARS IN US!!!! BUT THE S5 IS AROUND 200 to 300 USD on average. WHAT THE &*$%

[HeadsUpHigh]

8 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Here is the thing. Apple used to be innovative, now they photocopy ideas, and claim their own without even having a better implementation. The company doesn't have a clear direction for its OS, where its GUI is getting a mess more and more at every release, and their products, while well made, are now all about locking Apple users in, to make it very difficult to leave, and sell accessories., because Apple is loosing marketshare. They are loosing the grasp from people, as it is not able to continue to be innovative or bring interesting features.

 

Products that were first release polished, are filled with issues and that only gets worse and worse every year. Careless and have no attention to its customers its product aims at are ignored, issues are quickly hidden, draconian business model (say something bad in a review? Fine! No more review device for you. No more invited to any Apple event. You are ban for life!). The company has no proudness, and lives off its fans.

 

For example: Before, MacBook Pro, small form factor managed to put a dedicated graphics, have great battery life, backlight keyboard, solid build quality, great everything for an amazing experience, excellent cooling. Now: 1 port, nothing special, meh all around, other manufactures are more innovative, the look of the device has never been really touched to updated, and looks every year more and more outdated, doesn't bring any augmentation of the laptop with the OS (in other words, you have identical experience if you install MacOS on any other laptop).

 

That is why people are harsh with Apple. You had this company, yes their product was expensive, but ignoring that, was pushing the industry forward. Now, it is sleeping and not doing anything. Not pushing the boundary of anything. Just creating inconvenience, taking advantage of that the news media and people defend their decisions. Fine at first (I mean a product can't please everyone, and Apple has its own market in any case), but now it reached to a point that there is 0 justifications, especially that other manufactures not only has products that is better in every way, but done so way before.

 

And the reason why people are frustrated, as you don't have competition that Apple helped pushed. Like for example, nice looking systems, use other materials beside plastic, bring attention to details on product, bring new things on the table that isn't possible outside of Apple ecosystem as Apple makes both hardware and software, backlit keyboard, color calibrated displays, and more. Now... they have nothing... no innovation.. people see this massive potential in Apple, but disappointments after disappointment are only released. It is like the company started with this massive R&D lab, now it is just a team of 5 people trying to think about ideas.

 

MacBook, 1 port, over heats, nothing special, nothing new to the table, we have better and more features rich device just as thin, and subjectively better looking. The iPhone 7, the taptic engine vibrates the phones left and right making it uncomfortable to use due to the slippery metal texture they use, you feel like the phone can fall off, no headphone plug while other phones are just as thin, and more water proof have it, and have 0 compromise. Apple claims thinnest is important, but cuts battery instead of cutting display thickness, which they can a lot by switching to OLED display, especially that these days OLED has solved many of its drawbacks like: image retention, color shifting over time, low brightness, and cost.

 

Apple users should be angry, and demand more from Apple. Competition is good! Consumers who like Apple ecosystem, deserves better. Apple talent that the company had in the past was the ability to offer great experiences, new features, all in a very simple matter. Yes yes, you didn't have jam pack number of features, but that is the point. You have what most really needs. Now, to me, it feels like that they don't push innovation because they are afraid, have 0 courage to determine what should be there or not, and how to present it. Apple claiming "Courage" for removing the headphone plug is a sign that they have 0 courage. A courageous person, doesn't need to say that they are courageous. Their action defines that already. Here it doesn't. Business wise, it is great! More accessories to sell. But against consumers.

 

That is what I can conclude based on my observations currently.

Every Apple event since the introduction of the macbook pro in my eyes has been a lost opportunity to make something great. iphone ? Sure great cpu, great OS. But the battery life is still very poor and with the removal of the 3.5mm jack it is the first apple product in the history of the company that I truly do not like and would not want to own. Maybe it's a priority thing, they no longer care about heavy users so they don't invest on making laptops with good cooling for example.

 

 Macbook PRO ? What's the pro part ? It's cooling is too weak to compile anything big, and they intentionally do not thermal throttle it so every time you push it it wears the hardware out. I guess the only uses I can see for it would be for music( it is the industry standard atm) and some video/photo editing for hobbyists and lazy youtubers. I have talked to people from the movie industry and according to them only Premier is good enough for real professional use, but Premier is less optimized than FCPX due to the multiple workflows and code paths it supports, so a machine that overheats is not an option for it. I guess the IDE is good there so you can develop on the mac and SSH it to a server for compiling, but you do not need the kind of hardware that is on a macbook pro for what is essentially a text editor.

Want to talk about the new macbook ? What's to say about it ? One port ? Tablet-level hardware for 1k+ ? Everything soldered ? Just a glorified netbook. You don't pay for a good computer, you are paying for disposable technology. Their mac ecosystem is getting worse and worse as time passes by. Ffs, a wireless mouse that charges from underneath... What about the imacs ? Great screens, and that is one of the last few points I can give to apple, I wish other companies did the same screens and did not overkill resolutions on stupid 13 inch laptops with 4k screens. But intentionally putting mobile gpus on them so users can't upgrade them is retarded. It seems like all of their heavy duty professional devices are more and more targeted towards prosumers who just get a boner thinking they have a "professional" device. I tend to do a lot of research on what computers to buy and when looking at the mac ecosystem I found out so many shit hidden underneath the nice aluminum enclosure that it becomes disgusting.

 

Their casual consumer devices is something me and most of the ltt community is uninterested in. And it seems like more often than not I dislike people who are heavy apple users, not because they use apple devices but because they seem to share some common characteristics that I don't like. Half of them are people with parents rich enough that just don't care about life anymore or disgusting hipsters trying to be "alternatives" by buying stuff that other people just can't afford. That imo is the worst way to be different. And one of the last excuses apple had about having a problem-free ecosystem is slowly going away with more and more bugs on iOS and macOS with every update. I laugh at every WWDC conference when they talk about how stable their new version is and then wifi doesn't work, the computer changes it's desktop cover to a dick pick, whatever. I think it was El Capitan or Yosemite that even broke some plug ins for their professional music production, the last thing they are doing well.

 

I'm not the most DYI heavy guy, in fact I am not a big fan of the pc ecosystem as it is mostly an ecosystem maintained by a couple corporations, so the actual creativity is limited in looks and flashy LED stuff that I find useless. If im doing a DYI project I'd rather do it on linux and some single-board computer like the RPi for example. But for any critical work I find the apple ecosystem more and more a ghost of it's past. Updating a 3 year old mac is the worst idea ever as you are prone to crashes and all that good stuff. And with how closed the code is, you can't fix any of it yourself, so you are waiting for an apple fix that never comes and then you end up buying a new mac. Because you are so locked in the ecosystem with gb upon gb of iphoto picks that you can't just move away.

 

If you read all of this you deserve a medal.

[laminutederire]

2 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Ya that too, but not all their products are overpriced. Their tablets and smartphones are well-priced, as well as some of the cheaper laptops (I personally think the retina 13" is a pretty decent laptop). Though when you get into iMacs, Mac Pros, and retina 15"s they do start to be overpriced.

IPhones are overpriced as well, at least where I live they are... 700€ for a s7 and it was 950€ for an iPhone 6. At that price you buy a computer

[wontruefree]

6 hours ago, Actuatedkarma said:

Apple is good at what it's trying to achieve. They market a "premium" brand and it works. People see apple, they can be assured that they are dealing with one company, and it makes everything easier for the casual consumer. Imagine not knowing anything about computers, and seeing all these different brands out there, all doing different things with computers. Then they see apple, who boast a clean OS and easy syncing options for your phone, which may very well be an iPhone.

 

Compared to the plethora of competing android phones, windows computers and such with their fancy looks and names that sound like it's a part on a spaceship, Apple provides people with "clean" and "simple". The hardest decision the consumer needs to make is whether they want a small laptop, big laptop, small desktop, big desktop and how powerful they need it.

 

Several years of this with good marketing and famous people using their products, and all of a sudden Apple is now the standard "premium computer/phone" company for the general public.

 

Now do I like Apple? Kinda. The OS is pretty stable and it generally works most of the time. Their laptops are good as a second-hand or year-old option for the casual designer/music producer.

 

TLDR: Apple makes very average products the general consumer base understands, but now Apple is synonymous with premium, much like a certain beats by Dre.... Oh, wait...

I would say there is a market outside the casual consumer and there is a market for the informed consumer.

 

As much as I love andriod and have owned a few over the years there are still some really compelling reasons to stay off that entire platform.  At least for me.

 

But I like all your points.

 

3 hours ago, ScratchCat said:

I think most tech people hate Apple because non-Techies think that anything made my Apple is impecable.

I would agree with this more then I care to admit.  There is a certain amount of hubris and superiority that plays into all the hate online.

 

1 hour ago, laminutederire said:

IPhones are overpriced as well, at least where I live they are... 700€ for a s7 and it was 950€ for an iPhone 6. At that price you buy a computer

Pricing anything is hard after working in software where everyone wants things to be free and that will never happen.  I would be more curious why you think it is overpriced.

 

@ScratchCat I cannot give you enough credit for that insight I had not thought of that before.

 

2 hours ago, HeadsUpHigh said:

Every Apple event since the introduction of the macbook pro in my eyes has been a lost opportunity to make something great. iphone ? Sure great cpu, great OS. But the battery life is still very poor and with the removal of the 3.5mm jack it is the first apple product in the history of the company that I truly do not like and would not want to own. Maybe it's a priority thing, they no longer care about heavy users so they don't invest on making laptops with good cooling for example.

 

 Macbook PRO ? What's the pro part ? It's cooling is too weak to compile anything big, and they intentionally do not thermal throttle it so every time you push it it wears the hardware out. I guess the only uses I can see for it would be for music( it is the industry standard atm) and some video/photo editing for hobbyists and lazy youtubers. I have talked to people from the movie industry and according to them only Premier is good enough for real professional use, but Premier is less optimized than FCPX due to the multiple workflows and code paths it supports, so a machine that overheats is not an option for it. I guess the IDE is good there so you can develop on the mac and SSH it to a server for compiling, but you do not need the kind of hardware that is on a macbook pro for what is essentially a text editor.

Want to talk about the new macbook ? What's to say about it ? One port ? Tablet-level hardware for 1k+ ? Everything soldered ? Just a glorified netbook. You don't pay for a good computer, you are paying for disposable technology. Their mac ecosystem is getting worse and worse as time passes by. Ffs, a wireless mouse that charges from underneath... What about the imacs ? Great screens, and that is one of the last few points I can give to apple, I wish other companies did the same screens and did not overkill resolutions on stupid 13 inch laptops with 4k screens. But intentionally putting mobile gpus on them so users can't upgrade them is retarded. It seems like all of their heavy duty professional devices are more and more targeted towards prosumers who just get a boner thinking they have a "professional" device. I tend to do a lot of research on what computers to buy and when looking at the mac ecosystem I found out so many shit hidden underneath the nice aluminum enclosure that it becomes disgusting.

 

Their casual consumer devices is something me and most of the ltt community is uninterested in. And it seems like more often than not I dislike people who are heavy apple users, not because they use apple devices but because they seem to share some common characteristics that I don't like. Half of them are people with parents rich enough that just don't care about life anymore or disgusting hipsters trying to be "alternatives" by buying stuff that other people just can't afford. That imo is the worst way to be different. And one of the last excuses apple had about having a problem-free ecosystem is slowly going away with more and more bugs on iOS and macOS with every update. I laugh at every WWDC conference when they talk about how stable their new version is and then wifi doesn't work, the computer changes it's desktop cover to a dick pick, whatever. I think it was El Capitan or Yosemite that even broke some plug ins for their professional music production, the last thing they are doing well.

 

I'm not the most DYI heavy guy, in fact I am not a big fan of the pc ecosystem as it is mostly an ecosystem maintained by a couple corporations, so the actual creativity is limited in looks and flashy LED stuff that I find useless. If im doing a DYI project I'd rather do it on linux and some single-board computer like the RPi for example. But for any critical work I find the apple ecosystem more and more a ghost of it's past. Updating a 3 year old mac is the worst idea ever as you are prone to crashes and all that good stuff. And with how closed the code is, you can't fix any of it yourself, so you are waiting for an apple fix that never comes and then you end up buying a new mac. Because you are so locked in the ecosystem with gb upon gb of iphoto picks that you can't just move away.

 

If you read all of this you deserve a medal.

I like your points about the hardware but I disagree with your points about the characterization of people.  I have worked in fortune 500 companies that hand out macs be default.  I think IBM has had a few articles on this.  This is the first one that came up on google but there are probably better ones.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2998315/apple-mac/every-mac-we-buy-is-making-and-saving-ibm-money-ibm.html

 

All in all I like your point and will have to check into the cooling on pro models more.

 

[laminutederire]

Just now, wontruefree said:

Pricing anything is hard after working in software where everyone wants things to be free and that will never happen.  I would be more curious why you think it is overpriced.

Because it's significantly more expensive than products which are roughly the same caliber. I don't want to argue over which is the best or whatever, but compared to other offerings, they're pretty much similar, one is better at task A but the other is better at task B. Overall it's the same tier and quality, but the iPhone is always more expensive.

[richardmajor86]

Their OS is nice and easy to use, for most people

 

Their hardware is built really well. MBPs still feel like the best laptops out there. They feel very premium.

 

In terms of performer, for productivity which is what they seem to be built for, they work great. There's deffo some magic when the hardware and software is made by the same people.

 

Their phones are brilliantly secure as an out of the box product. Again built really well. Easy to use. Easy to transfer your data from one to their other when you update your phone.

 

Theres a small vocal minority for whom Apple stuff won't work for the job they need it for. They should just use the correct tool rather than moaning the wrong tool is the wrong tool.

 

Also, Apple laptops last so much longer than cheapo plastic boxes from your local big box retailer. 

 

For most people, it doesn't matter how fast the specs are, facebook and twitter aren't going to load any quicker. Word processing won't be any better and loading up spreadsheets will be the same too.

[BirdyTheMighty]

other then their overprice  macs. Its because of their proprietary shit  for me and requiring a software to do something which makes things more an a annoyance E.g itunes 

[MajorGoob]

On 9/20/2016 at 1:27 PM, Kierax said:

If Apple invented toilet roll, it would only come in 1 ply, it would cost the same as luxury roll, and do half the job, but would have a pretty little logo which took up even more absorption.

 

People would defend it, those who could see it for what it was would ridicule it.

 

The Emperor's New Clothes springs to mind. 

That is certainly by far the best analogy for Apple that I have ever heard.

[Sintezza]

I hate Microsoft more then Apple to be honnest.

But they are both shady.

 

[Revwolf1776]

I don't hate Apple I hate apple's customers. I've worked electronic retail for almost 3 years now and the people that buy apple products are in my opinion just lazy because they don't care about anything as long as it works, Performance, features and price be damned. Apple is just capitalized on a bunch of people being sheep and not caring about anything but something working and brand name, for that I don't blame them money is money. This is in regards to the Mac and Iphones. The only apples product that I really cared for was the Ipod but personally Ipods are somewhat past their time what with music streaming. 

[Centurius]

On 9/20/2016 at 7:34 PM, SpencerBoughtAnXbox said:

Im going to be honest here. I dont like apple that much i only own one of there products and its an ipod. It serves its purpose. But when it comes down to the bigger products like the laptops and the imacs my school has they suck. Heres an example for you i bought an exteranl hard drive from seagate and for whatever reason it came formatted in NTFS  not that i was expecting it to be different. I go to the schools computer lab with my class and i have to present, the only thing is i couldnt. The apple peice of crap couldnt write to the hard drive so it freaked out on me and wouldnt boot the program. Long story short i failed and all because of apple not supporting a pretty standard format even my exFat wouldnt write. And this is why i dont like them. If you read through all this youre awesome and thanks for bering with me

You were expecting a proprietary standard by Microsoft to work instantly on an Apple device? That's like expecting HFS+ to work on Microsoft without workarounds. 

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

I'm gonna add here: You'd be better off buying a BLACKBERRY THAN AN IPHONE 7

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/apple-iphone-7-3766-vs-blackberry-dtek50-3663 JUST LOOK AT THIS