ASUS "Connector less" GPUs, which deliver power via a special motherboard slot are going into production THIS FALL.

[Uttamattamakin]

Summary

In an effort to solve the PCIE 5, 12HPWR, connector melting issue ASUS designed and implemented power delivery sufficient for a RTX 40 series GPU into a slot on the motherboard.  To use this means having a specially designed motherboard.   

 

Quotes

Quote

ASUS plans to mass-produce the new components by this fall; hence we could expect the products to hit retail either at the end of the year or the beginning of 2024. ASUS says that such components will come at an increased cost, owing to the complex manufacturing process involved in making the products. In order to utilize the connector-less GPU, having a supported motherboard & casing will be necessary.

Quote

The concept from ASUS is intriguing, it eliminates the widespread connector issues and helps in cable management. The big question is whether consumers will pay the extra cost just to get features that do not affect a system's performance. We expect that ASUS will initially manufacture limited units to test the market's reaction toward such products.

My thoughts

There is a real risk of being stranded with a GPU that can never work in a new motherboard if this solution does not stick.  The motherboard is less of a risk in that any GPU would likely work.  Meanwhile with such a GPU it will not work without the special motherboard.  For many people this might not be a huge problem.  Many people don't upgrade anything until they are ready to upgrade the whole computer. 

 

If I was looking to build a new computer I would seriously consider basing it on this platform just so as to try the experiment and see if it works.  I hope it does.  I hope this becomes a new standard.  I feel like having a big copper plane for all that current to go into will be a much better connector for power delivery than the current cable standard. 

 

Sources

https://wccftech.com/asus-connector-less-geforce-rtx-4070-gpus-mass-production-fall-white-variant-revealed/

 

[SorryBella]

3 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

To use this means having a specially designed motherboard.

I hate this future. First its 12VO, then its the YTX and its reverse connector concept, and now this. Unless if Intel can put a gauntlet on form factor again, this is so over.

[Uttamattamakin]

8 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

If you could standardize it, and ratify it, and get a consortium to agree with it... I really like wireless edge connect cards. Less to manage, thick copper traces with pretty firm contact that never really has you ask "well gee is it in yet?"

Me too.  Standard PCI E delivers what ... 75W via the slot already.  So lower end lower power GPU's dont' even have/need a power connector.  Maybe that's the way to go.  All it might take is for ASUS to make their tech for this open source and for 1 other big manufacturer to take it on.  

 

33 minutes ago, SorryBella said:

I hate this future. First its 12VO, then its the YTX and its reverse connector concept, and now this. Unless if Intel can put a gauntlet on form factor again, this is so over.

I look forward to a future where everything needed in a desktop is integrated into a single monolithic SOC on the PC side.  Apple has that much right. 

Difference on the PC side will be if part of that SOC dies and you have a backup of the storage you can just pop in a new SOC. 

[leadeater]

Odds are will be released through pre-built offerings only at first. Asus sells pre-builds and I can see other SI's etc making package deals with Asus. I just don't see this hitting DIY well.

[Mark Kaine]

50 minutes ago, SorryBella said:

I hate this future. First its 12VO, then its the YTX and its reverse connector concept, and now this. Unless if Intel can put a gauntlet on form factor again, this is so over.

wait , no more cables or even just less cables is a good thing though?  

 

this is on Nvidia/ Amd not updating their outdated and clumsy design in decades... in fact nvidia even went ahead and made their new "plug" even more ugly,  inconvenient and dangerous. 

 

i welcome any proprietary solution that actually improves things as it forces gpu manufacturers to eventually forego their sloppy, anti consumer 2x6+2 2x8, 12x [18x???] nonsense of ugly cabling worship  

[SorryBella]

4 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

wait , no more cables or even just less cables is a good thing though?  

 

this is on Nvidia/ amd not updating their outdated and clumsy design in decades... on fact nvidia went ahead and made their new "plug" even more ugly,  inconvenient and dangerous. 

Then wake me up when it is ratified in PCI-SIG. Because for what it is this looks like Asus proprietary shit, hence my reference to MSI's YTX work.

[Somerandomtechyboi]

32 minutes ago, micha_vulpes said:

"well gee is it in yet?"

sigh

very funny sentence out of context

[Uttamattamakin]

21 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Odds are will be released through pre-built offerings only at first. Asus sells pre-builds and I can see other SI's etc making package deals with Asus. I just don't see this hitting DIY well.

It would make building simpler for SI's too wouldn't it.  One less cable to manage.  One less point of failure, or at least a point much less likely to fail.  That said if this does wind up also failing then the whole motherboard is toast.  Won't that be fun?  

 

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, Uttamattamakin said:

In an effort to solve the PCIE 5, 12HPWR, connector melting issue

How is this supposed to solve that when the same connector is still used? 

 

1 hour ago, Uttamattamakin said:

I feel like having a big copper plane for all that current to go into will be a much better connector for power delivery than the current cable standard. 

How do you think you get power from the power supply to the motherboard?

 

It uses a 12vhpwr connector on the back of the motherboard. Because this has nothing to do with removing power cables. It's about hiding them. 

 

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, SorryBella said:

Then wake me up when it is ratified in PCI-SIG. Because for what it is this looks like Asus proprietary shit, hence my reference to MSI's YTX work.

 

1 hour ago, micha_vulpes said:

This is PCI-SIG and the limitations set forth by Intel in the ATX standards decades ago. It's not NVidias connector.

who cares about "pci sig" tho? why do you need it? do away with this organization, its just a scapegoat for indeed Nvidia who was it that designed the 12 fail plug, not "pci sig" don't  let them fool you this easily,  this "organization" has no real power, its just so they can more easily sell you snake oil.

 

"pci sig" give me a break lol  

[SorryBella]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

do away with this organization

real 927 vibe. I hate JEDEC, USBIF, PCI-SIG and other computer organizing alliances but they have been what stopping us from the issue of independent standards in other industry, lack of inter compatibility built in.

 

[Mark Kaine]

4 minutes ago, SorryBella said:

real 927 vibe. I hate JEDEC, USBIF, PCI-SIG and other computer organizing alliances but they have been what stopping us from the issue of independent standards in other industry, lack of inter compatibility built in.

 

im not against diversity tho. and i seriously question this organization specifically,  seems more like gatekeep than "standards" to me tbh.

 

i mean i don't get how you as a consumer can be against more options,  you can still buy unsafe pci sig plugs if you wish, the rest moves on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

think about it, no more cables, but nvidia and co are gatekeeping, thats the situation,  this isnt really about standards, its about monopolistic business practices aka $$$

[Blademaster91]

12 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

who cares about "pci sig" tho? why do you need it? do away with this organization, its just a scapegoat for indeed Nvidia who was it that designed the 12 fail plug, not "pci sig" don't  let them fool you this easily,  this "organization" has no real power, its just so they can more easily sell you snake oil.

 

"pci sig" give me a break lol  

Yeah I'd rather an independent organization design a replacement for 8 pin pci-e power, I don't trust PCI SIG at all, given that they approved of a fire hazard power connector, then they realize its crap and redesigned it. And then Nvidia goes and quietly changes to the updated 12 pin socket without issuing a recall for all affected cards. It seems like Nvidia paid PCI SIG a lot of money to get the connector approved.

 

This slot power connector just adds another point of failure, from the 12v HPWR connector on the motherboard, and the slot connector on the GPU cracking which could short the GPU and the motherboard out, because the  Nvidia 40 series GPU's are so large and heavy you wouldn't want a card to sag at all and risk breaking the slot.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Blademaster91

[starsmine]

20 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

who cares about "pci sig" tho? why do you need it? do away with this organization, its just a scapegoat for indeed Nvidia who was it that designed the 12 fail plug, not "pci sig" don't  let them fool you this easily,  this "organization" has no real power, its just so they can more easily sell you snake oil.

 

"pci sig" give me a break lol  

This has to be the worst take I have read on the forum in years.
 

[leadeater]

Nikola Tesla had wireless power solved decades ago, lets just do that?

[Zodiark1593]

3 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

For many people this might not be a huge problem.  Many people don't upgrade anything until they are ready to upgrade the whole computer. 

 

 

 

Yeah, definitely qualifies as a “Go Speak for Yourself” kind of opinion. 

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, micha_vulpes said:

Only if I can get the peoples stuff who accidentally become conductors for these lightning bolts.

Minor details, just make it work. It'll be fineeeee

[strajk-]

Meh, why not?
I always welcome less cables, specially for parts that get swapped frequently, in a dream world scenario you buy a motherboard and you'll use that for several CPU generations, post installation the part you probably most frequently swap is the GPU, since that's the easiest performance uplift path.

 

Most users, don't even use more than 600W off their GPU, and the likelihood is pretty high of manufacturers gambling on this adoption to extra ship an adapter that lets you use those GPUs on mobos that don't follow this new design...

 

Haven't read on the technicalities but my biggest worries would be on the motherboard itself surging off that port for whatever reason and frying everything else with it.

[Stahlmann]

I can't wait to buy poprietary hardware that will likely be more expensive than the standard alternative and lock me into the Asus ecosystem just to get rid of 1-2 cables. 

[Uttamattamakin]

7 hours ago, Spotty said:

How is this supposed to solve that when the same connector is still used? 

 

How do you think you get power from the power supply to the motherboard?

 

It uses a 12vhpwr connector on the back of the motherboard. Because this has nothing to do with removing power cables. It's about hiding them. 

Here's how.  The problem was people would plug the power cable into the graphics card and all would seem well.  Often stretching the cable around and up, or to the side, to get to wherever the connector is on the particular card.  They'd plug it in securely, or at least it would seem secure.  Then either as they cable manage, or even close the side panel they'd apply some lateral force just enough to cause bad contact in a pin or two.  This causes high resistance which causes heating. 

 

By moving the cable to the back of the mother board  they no longer need to apply any forces to that cable to cable manage it.  ASUS could be sure to make that connector on the mobo very robust and better able to hold onto the cable.   Thereby avoiding the issue of the cable getting even slightly pulled out.   

This may not be perfect but it is an acknowledgement that there is a serious issue.  Without this issue I don't think even ASUS would think to take such a drastic action.  If this was just about hiding cables then they would've done this with or without the melting issue.  I just don't see it being done without that issue. Maybe as a one off for a electronics show ...but not in mass production. 

 

6 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

This slot power connector just adds another point of failure, from the 12v HPWR connector on the motherboard, and the slot connector on the GPU cracking which could short the GPU and the motherboard out, because the  Nvidia 40 series GPU's are so large and heavy you wouldn't want a card to sag at all and risk breaking the slot.

Possibly  the physical conditions of plugging into the back of the motherboard, then not applying any undue tension to it, along with the things I stated above might do the trick.   

 

Or it won't.   Since the same fundamental issue is present in the form of channeling so much power and energy into a single point means if it is not done perfectly things go very wrong very fast.   In which case, even a special motherboard is cheaper to replace than a GPU. 

6 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Yeah, definitely qualifies as a “Go Speak for Yourself” kind of opinion. 

Uhm, I spent a lot of post last month being told no one ever upgrades their CPU... when posting nostalgia about how that used to be a very VERY common thing.   

 

5 hours ago, strajk- said:

Meh, why not?
I always welcome less cables, specially for parts that get swapped frequently, in a dream world scenario you buy a motherboard and you'll use that for several CPU generations, post installation the part you probably most frequently swap is the GPU, since that's the easiest performance uplift path.

I agree with this.  In an ideal world CPU sockets would be made with future expansion in mind.  They'd be like PCIE slots in that respect.  One could then swap a new SOC in with extra GPU, memory, and storage at will.  

Problem is there is more money in selling a whole computer every 18 months to people who think they need that just to browse in Chrome. 

5 hours ago, strajk- said:

 

Most users, don't even use more than 600W off their GPU, and the likelihood is pretty high of manufacturers gambling on this adoption to extra ship an adapter that lets you use those GPUs on mobos that don't follow this new design...

 

Haven't read on the technicalities but my biggest worries would be on the motherboard itself surging off that port for whatever reason and frying everything else with it.

This is of course a distinct possibility if it is done wrong by ASUS.  At simplest they have taken care to ensure a secure connection to the back of the motherboard, and the PCIE power goes straight to that special slot without connecting to anything else.  To know someone will have to get this set up and look at the traces.  

If only we knew of a youtube creator with a lab and technicians who can tell us the details. 

[pas008]

8 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

who cares about "pci sig" tho? why do you need it? do away with this organization, its just a scapegoat for indeed Nvidia who was it that designed the 12 fail plug, not "pci sig" don't  let them fool you this easily,  this "organization" has no real power, its just so they can more easily sell you snake oil.

 

"pci sig" give me a break lol  

did nvidias 12 pin have any issues on the 3k series(didnt have 4 extra pins)? which was their design actually and compatible with pci sig standard

 

 

[Doobeedoo]

I like that things are at least moving forward to improve. We just need a standard though. Removing cables like this is good. Need good connectors on mobo and PS that for sure. Really it would be possible to just have one big connector from PS to mobo though.

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, Uttamattamakin said:

 

 

Uhm, I spent a lot of post last month being told no one ever upgrades their CPU... when posting nostalgia about how that used to be a very VERY common thing.   

 

And here I am, running an RTX 3060 on a 8 year old platform for my daily. (I7-4790) Yes, I’m in some niche of a niche, potentially within another niche, I know the drill. Doesn’t mean I’m thrilled to have my use case disregarded. 

 

Anyway, if Asus is building out a new spec, why not use 24v? The voltage should still be low enough that it can be safely insulated, but will definitely help in reducing board costs, as less copper would be required.

[pas008]

40 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

I like that things are at least moving forward to improve. We just need a standard though. Removing cables like this is good. Need good connectors on mobo and PS that for sure. Really it would be possible to just have one big connector from PS to mobo though.

not sure if its actually improvement considering mobo cost already gone up and possibly more potential for these expensive mobos to fry

[SADS]

I'm looking forward to seeing this in action!

It seems to me to be a good idea and a nice way to reduce the need for wires in my machine. To be honest, I'm surprised that not much has changed in PC internal designs for so long.

It's about time.

 

I already like that I don't really need all the wires going around for HDD and CD/DVD drives anymore.

M.2 Drives have really helped out there as well, although SATA drives improved this slightly.

 

I imagine it might even help out a little with card sag if the socket is longer.