LTT Screwdriver

[Bad5ector]

18 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

I don't expect everyone to spend $70 for a screwdriver, but it's also not equivalent to some $25 driver.

I've been wanting to purchase this driver for a while... basically since you guys announced it. It wouldn't be the first time I've spent more on something because of the name, at least in this case I am supporting a group that I believe in. The fact that you seemed to put some actual thought into it is a bonus.

[poochyena]

I'm excited to hopefully see Project Farm compare the screwdriver with other brands

I bought $70 scissors after seeing how much better they compared to cheaper scissors. I am certainly in the market for a new screwdriver for my business since I just have terrible cheap ones now.

[Blademaster91]

18 hours ago, poochyena said:

https://shop.snapon.com/product/Standard-Handle/8-3-4"-Ratcheting-Standard-Screwdriver-(Orange)/SSDMR4BO

The snap on tool is made in USA, while LTT's is made in China. Unless @LinusTech can assure me that the the chinese workers at the chinese factory enjoy an equivilant working standards as Canada or the US (equivilant pay, workers rights, safety etc.), then I see absolutely no reason to why i'd pick LTT's screwdriver over snap on's. And to add to this, there is this screwdriver that is said to be identical to snap on's for half the price https://smile.amazon.com/Williams-WRS-1-Magnetic-Ratcheting-Screwdriver/dp/B002NI1LZK?

There is even an ltt mention in the Q&A

A made in US ratcheting driver for $35, some of the reviews say it breaks but seems like a good deal.

I don't see why anyone would buy an LTT screwdriver besides buying it for the branding.

[LinusTech]

2 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Suppose there’s only so much you can do with a screwdriver but other established brands are cheaper and widely available with great build quality, ergonomics and tool ecosystems/sets that go with them. Don’t really see how you’d make money even at $70 after spending “hundreds of thousands” and that’s without BOM cost I’m guessing too. 

We have over 35,000 people signed up to get a notification when it comes in stock. I appreciate your concern, and I've had times during this project that I've had the same worries, but I think we'll be okay

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

A made in US ratcheting driver for $35, some of the reviews say it breaks but seems like a good deal.

I don't see why anyone would buy an LTT screwdriver besides buying it for the branding.

These were our go-to screwdrivers for the writing team for years. They are a big part of the reason we made our own. The ergonomics suck, the plastics suck, the bit retention sucks, the shaft isn't knurled like the snap-on version (and ours). Hope that helps clear things up.

[pstrick2]

You really can't underestimate the cult of personality that forms around youtubers. (Not saying that's good or bad)

 

This is for all the LTT viewers to buy and put on a shelf. People develop attachments to brands and people (those so-called parasocial relationships) and the screwdriver is just a way to cash in on that. Youtube especially has this problem.

 

Something with a lifetime warranty, like Snap-On or even Kobalt is a better deal for anybody who actually does work.

Do you think LMG is going to warranty your screwdriver when the ratchet mechanism snaps? Hell no.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a good screwdriver. The screwdriver is just the vehicle for transferring money from the marks to LMG's coffers.

 

Look at the bookbag that they are releasing. That is aimed at the 14-21 year old crowd, like most of LTT's current products. You have to assume this screwdriver has the same target audience.

These aren't people looking to get a quality product for an affordable price. These are bros looking to strengthen their (illusory) parasocial relationship with Linus. You can't put a price on that.

(for example, the retail price for a 40ox water bottle from mythermoflask.com (same brand LTT uses) is 17.50. Nobody who buys a water bottle for LMG does it because they need one. It's all some weird psychological thing.)

 

Also, non-ratcheting screwdrivers cost $1 at Lowes.

[Blademaster91]

I still don't see why there wasn't some kind of partnership with a known tool brand, I'd rather buy a Snapon at $70.

As for ergonomics, it looks like a screwdriver, shouldn't be much of a concern for PC building, idk about the plastics its a $35 driver I wouldn't expect Snapon quality plastic, but i've seen discussions on the LTT screwdriver before and there was concern the handle has that rubbery soft touch coating on it, and that gets gross and sticky after a while. A knurled shaft is a weird complaint, most drivers besides the Snapon don't have a knurled or textured grip shaft.

[LinusTech]

1 hour ago, James Evens said:

@LinusTech Curious if QC is done in house or by external entity.

What is the warranty policy on this? A lot of tools (in this price category) have 5-10 years or even (none transferable) lifetime warranty.

Depends what you mean. Design QC has been done in collaboration with Megapro and their partners over the last 2.5 years. 

 

As for warranty, we are still working that out. We've never offered any official warranty for anything on lttstore, but we take a very customer-first approach to any kind of quality or workmanship issue. It's possible we'll offer something more formal, but not sure yet. Our physical goods business is still secondary, and our general approach is to under-promise and over-deliver.

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

I still don't see why there wasn't some kind of partnership with a known tool brand, I'd rather buy a Snapon at $70.

As for ergonomics, it looks like a screwdriver, shouldn't be much of a concern for PC building, idk about the plastics its a $35 driver I wouldn't expect Snapon quality plastic, but i've seen discussions on the LTT screwdriver before and there was concern the handle has that rubbery soft touch coating on it, and that gets gross and sticky after a while. A knurled shaft is a weird complaint, most drivers besides the Snapon don't have a knurled or textured grip shaft.

How many times do we have to say we developed it in partnership with Megapro?

 

No, it will not develop any kind of stickiness. It's a hard plastic called Triax, but the EDM finish on the moulds gives it kind of a soft-touch feel and satin appearance.

[AnonymousGuy]

I'm not in the market for a screwdriver (I don't see the point in a ratchet mechanism on a fine thread machine screw) but I'll respect the pain in the ass of having one manufactured from scratch-ish.

 

General comment though: for the price I'd expect lifetime warranty on the bits and somewhere in the US handling warranty claims.   However I suspect the majority of purchases are just going to be more for the "omg Youtuber merch!" aspect than "I really need a ratcheting screwdriver".  I'd still be amused to watch an AvE review of it though.

[Colty]

It's obviously still up in the air, as Linus has said a few times, but I feel like it should be clear.

Any tools, with a high price tag, advertising claims of "high quality" need to be backed by a lifetime warranty.

I work on cars, computers, consoles, popcorn machines, whatever. I like maintaining things, repairing things, learning things. I've bought cheap tools before and I've bought expensive stuff before. Harbor Freight? CHEAP, screws literally falling out of torque wrenches. But, it's got a lifetime warranty so it's a one time purchase with a 10 minute drive every few years. Expensive snap-on stuff I got second hand? Unstoppable, but I'm not opening a credit line or buying anything new.

For something as common as a screwdriver, being subjected to everyday use, especially for people who work with their hands, if I'm dropping $70, there's gotta be something beyond, "trust me." I want parts available for years to come. Stripped the threads on the "magazine"? I should be able to get one shipped out to me. Even if I have to pay for it. A bit got destroyed on a stripped screw? A new one (the special LTT size) should be available. The handle cracks in my toolbag? Same deal.

It's not that you're buying a product with a general "Oops, bad batch" warranty. At a premium price point, for tools specifically, you're buying something for life, no ifs, ands, or buts. 

I don't know if that's actually feasible for LTT, Snap-on obviously makes money through predatory credit schemes and having thousands of tools, but I'd like to at least see commitment to replacement parts being available for at least a decade. 

[LinusTech]

I understand this perspective, but hopefully you can understand why we might be hesitant to fundamentally change our approach to warranty claims for one product.

 

Bottom line is that we're very confident in the screwdriver - both utility and quality - and very confident in our track record and our ability to take care of problems. Now we only need 100,000 people to agree

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, LinusTech said:

How many times do we have to say we developed it in partnership with Megapro?

 

No, it will not develop any kind of stickiness. It's a hard plastic called Triax, but the EDM finish on the moulds gives it kind of a soft-touch feel and satin appearance.

Tbh i've never heard of Megapro, seems they're a brand sold in Canada though, their tools are made in Canada and have a lifetime warranty. I agree with the other mentions a tool with a high price tag should carry a lifetime warranty, i'm not sure people buying this tool will actually use it, but high priced tools get used until they break and there needs to be something more than "my merch is great and we'll support anyone that has any problems".

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, pstrick2 said:

You really can't underestimate the cult of personality that forms around youtubers. (Not saying that's good or bad)

 

This is for all the LTT viewers to buy and put on a shelf. People develop attachments to brands and people (those so-called parasocial relationships) and the screwdriver is just a way to cash in on that. Youtube especially has this problem.

 

Something with a lifetime warranty, like Snap-On or even Kobalt is a better deal for anybody who actually does work.

Do you think LMG is going to warranty your screwdriver when the ratchet mechanism snaps? Hell no.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a good screwdriver. The screwdriver is just the vehicle for transferring money from the marks to LMG's coffers.

 

Look at the bookbag that they are releasing. That is aimed at the 14-21 year old crowd, like most of LTT's current products. You have to assume this screwdriver has the same target audience.

These aren't people looking to get a quality product for an affordable price. These are bros looking to strengthen their (illusory) parasocial relationship with Linus. You can't put a price on that.

(for example, the retail price for a 40ox water bottle from mythermoflask.com (same brand LTT uses) is 17.50. Nobody who buys a water bottle for LMG does it because they need one. It's all some weird psychological thing.)

 

Also, non-ratcheting screwdrivers cost $1 at Lowes.

I think this makes sense, viewers with money will buy this tool, and it will probably sit in a drawer or get displayed on a shelf, it isn't even about the tool, people want to support their favorite channel even if it means buying an expensive tool that won't get used.

I actually use my tools so having a warranty is nice, and I own a Kobalt ratcheting screwdriver, it's good for longer screws but it isn't very convenient for most PC building uses for that I ended up investing into a iFixit pro tech toolkit, way more than I need but I have all the tools I would ever need for taking apart stuff.

[dizmo]

I knew this was going to be a bad time as soon as you started comparing it to the screw driver that comes in a socket set. They're not even close to the same beast. After reading a lot of your comments, I get the feeling that you're quite young, as there's a lot of concepts I don't think you fully grasp yet. Understandable.

 

Makita honestly isn't what it used to be, and it's more...consumer than prosumer, which is more in line with what LTT making. During my years in construction you'd very rarely see a Makita tool unless it was a rookie just starting out, or someone who had to run to the store and they were out of Dewalt, Hilti, Milwaukee, etc.

 

I don't think you're the type of person that would dive into the more expensive end of anything. You get the cheaper version, it works, so you consider it good enough. Which is totally fine, lots of people are like that, and virtually everyone is like that in one way or another. I'll give you an example. I have very expensive kitchen knives. I was at a friends, and he had a new set of knives. We were making dinner, he was saying how amazing they were. Sure, they're good. It's a knife, how much innovation can there be right? Not much? That's where you'd be wrong. The balance, sharpness, ability to keep an edge, all are substantially better on my knives. Does everyone need that, or desire anything more than what they've already tried and deemed good? Nope. But that doesn't mean that those more expensive knives are a rip off, nor does it mean there isn't a market for them. That market simply isn't you. Similarly, if things are well build and you take care of them, they can last a lifetime. I've had my Braun shaver (which was their highest end model) for almost 20 years, still works as good as the day I got it.

 

On 3/29/2022 at 2:33 PM, Ultraforce said:

There's not something inherently special with snap on it's just that they are made with good material and in the LMG Clips that talks a bit about the price of the screwdrivers and backpack(I will say his surprise about people asking why a screwdriver specializing in computer work would be that expensive is something that I don't understand since the video on LTTStore.com explicitly mentioned they were designed for computer work again and again, so it's reasonable to think oh it might not be using metals and plastics good for industrial work or for a boat.). The choice of price of Snap-On's is probably a combination of good materials having a lifetime warranty, being made in the USA and depending on the choice either having a bit that stays in the screwdriver well without being magnetic or having a good magnet for the magnetic one. Since Linus made a big deal about them having an excellent magnet. The bit holder included in the screwdriver also likely increases the price. Though I will say that I personally like looking at Lee Valley when it comes to tools that I don't know much about since they have kind of made their name on selling quality products and most of the screwdrivers that they sell don't have internal bit swapping so it's very possible that's a nice to have thing that people who are actually working in more normal jobs where screwdrivers come up a lot really don't care for that sort of mechanism.

He's stated on multiple occasions that this isn't a computer specific screw driver. I even watched the video again just to make sure, and not a single time does he mention computer work. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from. If it was, it'd likely come with a more specific bit loadout and be smaller.

On 3/29/2022 at 1:19 PM, Ultraforce said:

As GuiltySpark mentioned the LTT  screwdriver is supposed to be competing more so with Snap-On type screwdrivers. Though as indicated in the quote, my biggest concern with the LTT equipment that's been shown off is whether they will have warranties that one would expect from products of that price bracket.

I agree. The warranty with something like this is significantly more important than any other item they've made. There's a ratchet on the inside. Compared to a water bottle, the chances of something breaking is significantly higher, and it's not easy to replace, like the lid from a water bottle (both in practice and cost). That's something they're really going to have to sort out, and probably should have done so before manufacturing it, in case they wanted to implement some kind of serialized warranty system.

On 3/29/2022 at 2:44 PM, Imbadatnames said:

So it’s just a normal a normal screwdriver. Again I can get a Makita driver along with 80 bits, spammers up to 20mm and a full socket set for about $10 also made in the US, UK or Japan. The LTT driver is SUCH a ripoff it’s unreal 

While I'll agree that you can get some that are around that price, if you're paying $10 there's no way in hell they're quality, and there's no way in hell it's made in any of those three countries.

On 3/29/2022 at 3:29 PM, Imbadatnames said:

The products I’m listing are high end products. Makita are regarded as one of the best tool manufactures and easily beat Snap-on in product functionality and durability. Snap-on aren’t a good brand just expensive, kinda like beats. Milwaukee, Dewalt and Makita all blow them out of the water. Hell even craftsman are cheaper (also including a lifetime warranty). Lifetime warranty is nice but when you can buy better kit that will last just as long if not longer and at less than half the price is it really worth it? Especially when their power tools are either terrible or rebadged? 

It's not at all like Beats. It's expensive for some very good reasons; they're pretty well made, and they will simply hand you a new one, at your jobsite, without you going anywhere. Lifetime warranty isn't much good to a working professional when you have to wait 4 to 6 weeks to get your tool replaced. At that point, you might as well simply buy another. Not sure why you're bringing power tools into this.

On 3/29/2022 at 4:43 PM, Thaldor said:

I wouldn't say it's a ripoff. Making actually unique product from the ground up is pretty damn expensive especially if you expect to manufacture them only in thousands and you don't have anything else related to it (as in you could manufacture them besides of something else you are manufacturing). Snap-On, Bahco, kwb and other actual tool manufacturers and companies order those ratcheting screwdrivers in hundreds of thousands (worldwide), the bit making is in millions because the same bits go to multiple different products and they expect to make them for decades, possibly, meaning they can easily stretch the development costs for multiple years.

Development costs, you ask. Let me tell you, a single prototype is ******* expensive and designing time is also expensive, actually everything is expensive especialyl if you cannot do something in it by yourself. At one point in life I wanted to produce a prototype of something that was basicly an anodized aluminium tube with end caps and some fancy moving parts and threads, if I didn't find a machinist who did it for a bottle of booze during his lunchbreaks that single prototype would have costed me, if ordered from some company, around 5 000-10 000€. From China maybe a bit cheaper but we probably would still be closer in thousand euros,  easily over, but no way near anything that could be considered "cheap".

 

As Linus would I make a screwdriver? No. I would probably try to find someone who already makes screwdrivers and get a deal with them to slap a bit different handle to one of theirs or even just different colours and call it mine. Making completely own is just damn expensive if it isn't my bread and only thing it will produce for me is a ton of people asking "why this is so much more expensive than X". Basicly try to do anything to get its costs down so it would be closer to the competition price than something multiple times more expensive (just for price comparison I can a screwdriver set with around the same features for 16€, Bahco one with less heads for 20€ and Bahco with added LED-lights 27€)

 

Am I in the customer end for a $70 screwdriver (closer to 100€ with shipping and taxes)? Nope. The way I use my screwdrivers is that the <20€ sets are better than anything expensive, if I break a bit or two, no huge deal just get another. And yeah, if I see it fitting I will use my micro screwdrivers as chisels and prying tools. Actually only screwdrivers that I have paid more (as a single unit) than 5€ have been a huge slot head made for hammering and T5-drive (because torx 5 seems to be the weakest link of every set I have ever owned). If I was to pay over 50€ for a screwdriver set, it would either need to be electric (like Bosch PushDrive) or something really special (for example: I didn't even blink to spend 120€ to a Victorinox Swiss Tool BS because from personal experience with their pocket knives, I know I can trust that tool to last my abuse and still just work for my lifetime).

Aluminium tube...end caps...threads...couldn't find someone to mass produce your pipe bombs for you, fam?

Haha, jokes aside...

 

You wouldn't really be getting the same features, though. You'd be getting a similar concept, but the ratchet is likely no where near as precise, bits made of different material, made with cheaper plastics, etc etc. You're basically trying to say you can get a Ferrari for the price of a Focus, because they both drive down the road.

 

It's funny, your last paragraph basically sums up why you would pay more for a screwdriver (or any other item, really). You never know unless you try it. Though, one should expect bits to break. They're a consumable item if you do anything even remotely close to work with them.

22 hours ago, GuiltySpark_ said:

I have no idea, I have no interest in LTT's product, especially since it doesn't exist yet. It may be exactly the same quality but I don't know why they bothered to make it at all when you can get a Snap-On. 

SnapOn has worse ergonomics, IIRC. Probably different bit storage and a few other things as well. People always pump SnapOn up, but a huge draw is the fact that they'll deliver to your workplace. That's a huge part of why they cost so much.

14 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Racheting screwdrivers aren’t expensive. 
 

Joker spanner’s are good but they’re for specific uses, it’s not just a bog standard screwdriver with a brand. I get why they are expensive, snap on however are widely critiqued for their prices on pretty much everything. 

Nonsensical comment. You can't make a blanket statement like that, as you will always be wrong. That's like saying pens aren't expensive, having only ever used a basic Bic.

7 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

So they’re just marking up a megapro driver 

Probably shouldn't go making wild accusations like that when you have absolutely nothing to back it up on. It'll only make you look stupid on forums, bit in real life it can lead to some serious consequences. Many, many companies partner with other companies to make products that aren't already in their catalogs.

5 hours ago, LinusTech said:

The zinc housings for our ratchets are made in China. Our moulds and all plastics are done in Canada. Final assembly and packaging is also done in Canada.

 

As for the other comment I'm too lazy to quote right now, no we did not simply mark up a Megapro driver. If we had, it would look like a Megapro driver with our name silkscreened on it or something. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars customizing everything about it. Our ratchet is reversed compared to Megapros, the bit storage is much more compact compared to Megapros and the ergonomics are (imo) MUCH better than Megapro's other drivers. The quality and finish of the plastics is also outstanding.

 

I don't expect everyone to spend $70 for a screwdriver, but it's also not equivalent to some $25 driver.

 

Of course I would say that though. That's why if you're on the fence you should wait for the user reviews. As part of our internal commitment to transparency we do not censor or curate the reviews on our site, so you should have a pretty good idea of whether it's worth it pretty quickly after release

I've been so on the fence with this one. I love quality products, and this seems to be one of those, but $100 (CAD) for a screw driver...oof. I understand your viewpoint for warranty. Both from the aspects of management therein, and the fact that you simply may not have a new screwdriver to give someone in 15 years if it breaks. However, it will be a sticky point for many. Maybe a lifetime warranty with a clause like getting the value in free merch if the screw driver is no longer in production and the one you have breaks. I know you aim for great CS support, but as many issues have come up lately even that is getting to be hard to deliver on. How many months has the banner been up about CS delays?

 

So, judging from your comments in the other replies (if you could email Mozilla and yell at them for the fact that multi-quote doesn't work for whatever reason, and they seem incapable of fixing it), you have around 100,000 coming in? Hopefully I can make up my indecisive mind before they all sell out.

 

Also, not sure if it's even reached that far in product development terms yet, but maybe if people that buy a screwdriver get a large discount on 1 or 2 bit sets as a thank you gesture, could go a long way to it being a more...palatable price.

Will there be extensions? Just thinking of hard to reach places inside a computer.

 

Unrelated, but:

Quote

You'd mentioned not knowing what to do with containers if you ended up getting too many. It was probably an off the cuff comment, but if you genuinely aren't sure, there's several places that will store them for you. One by the Golden Ears bridge by Pitt Meadows (or at least, there used to be, when we stored CT containers there).

 

[dizmo]

5 hours ago, Imbadatnames said:

Suppose there’s only so much you can do with a screwdriver but other established brands are cheaper and widely available with great build quality, ergonomics and tool ecosystems/sets that go with them. Don’t really see how you’d make money even at $70 after spending “hundreds of thousands” and that’s without BOM cost I’m guessing too. 

Then you don't understand business very well.

4 hours ago, poochyena said:

I'm excited to hopefully see Project Farm compare the screwdriver with other brands

I bought $70 scissors after seeing how much better they compared to cheaper scissors. I am certainly in the market for a new screwdriver for my business since I just have terrible cheap ones now.

$70 scissors? I hope they were made in the USA

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

A made in US ratcheting driver for $35, some of the reviews say it breaks but seems like a good deal.

I don't see why anyone would buy an LTT screwdriver besides buying it for the branding.

I don't see why you think the location in which something is made immediately decides it's value, and whether it's a good product or not.
I've bought plenty of things made in the US (or Japan, or Germany) that have left a lot to be desired.

2 hours ago, pstrick2 said:

You really can't underestimate the cult of personality that forms around youtubers. (Not saying that's good or bad)

 

This is for all the LTT viewers to buy and put on a shelf. People develop attachments to brands and people (those so-called parasocial relationships) and the screwdriver is just a way to cash in on that. Youtube especially has this problem.

 

Something with a lifetime warranty, like Snap-On or even Kobalt is a better deal for anybody who actually does work.

Do you think LMG is going to warranty your screwdriver when the ratchet mechanism snaps? Hell no.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a good screwdriver. The screwdriver is just the vehicle for transferring money from the marks to LMG's coffers.

 

Look at the bookbag that they are releasing. That is aimed at the 14-21 year old crowd, like most of LTT's current products. You have to assume this screwdriver has the same target audience.

These aren't people looking to get a quality product for an affordable price. These are bros looking to strengthen their (illusory) parasocial relationship with Linus. You can't put a price on that.

(for example, the retail price for a 40ox water bottle from mythermoflask.com (same brand LTT uses) is 17.50. Nobody who buys a water bottle for LMG does it because they need one. It's all some weird psychological thing.)

 

Also, non-ratcheting screwdrivers cost $1 at Lowes.

If I bought one, I'd most certainly be using it. Nothing I buy sits on a shelf, otherwise it wouldn't be purchased.

 

You can't state what they will or won't do when it comes to a damaged product. You're not them, you don't know.

 

The backpack is aimed at anyone who likes to carry around tech. There's lots of people in the IT community that would LOVE this. I'm considering it because it's easier to travel with. There's lots of different reasons to have a bag. If you don't understand why, the product simply isn't for you.

 

You're right, they don't do it simply because they want the cheapest bottle they can find. Some people like the design. Some people want to support the creator they like, and have consumed hundreds of hours of content from. There's nothing wrong with any of these reasons.

45 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

I'm not in the market for a screwdriver (I don't see the point in a ratchet mechanism on a fine thread machine screw) but I'll respect the pain in the ass of having one manufactured from scratch-ish.

 

General comment though: for the price I'd expect lifetime warranty on the bits and somewhere in the US handling warranty claims.   However I suspect the majority of purchases are just going to be more for the "omg Youtuber merch!" aspect than "I really need a ratcheting screwdriver".  I'd still be amused to watch an AvE review of it though.

What? You've gotta be out to lunch thinking they'd have lifetime on the bits. Virtually every manufacturer considers bits to be a consumable item...because they are. They will wear down over time, and that's simply the nature of the product.

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I think this makes sense, viewers with money will buy this tool, and it will probably sit in a drawer or get displayed on a shelf, it isn't even about the tool, people want to support their favorite channel even if it means buying an expensive tool that won't get used.

I actually use my tools so having a warranty is nice, and I own a Kobalt ratcheting screwdriver, it's good for longer screws but it isn't very convenient for most PC building uses for that I ended up investing into a iFixit pro tech toolkit, way more than I need but I have all the tools I would ever need for taking apart stuff.

It doesn't, really. If you're going to do something predatory, you'd simply partner with an ODM, and have them change the product so that it has your colorway on it. Black and orange. Maybe, maybe alter a few other aspects like putting in a different magnet, different bit loadout, etc. Done. Easy. You don't go around spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to simply fleece your audience. I expect these will see wide use by the people that purchase them, as one would expect from something as multi use as a screw driver; something every single person should own.

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

I don't see why you think the location in which something is made immediately decides it's value, and whether it's a good product or not.
I've bought plenty of things made in the US (or Japan, or Germany) that have left a lot to be desired.

If you've bought enough tools to tell the difference you'd know where a tool is made has a lot to do with the quality and tolerances of manufacturing. While some made in US, Japan, or Germany tools can some times be bad, sometimes a tool makes it through that can be totally crap, but cheaply made stuff from China is often worse.

3 hours ago, dizmo said:

t doesn't, really. If you're going to do something predatory, you'd simply partner with an ODM, and have them change the product so that it has your colorway on it. Black and orange. Maybe, maybe alter a few other aspects like putting in a different magnet, different bit loadout, etc. Done. Easy. You don't go around spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to simply fleece your audience. I expect these will see wide use by the people that purchase them, as one would expect from something as multi use as a screw driver; something every single person should own.

I don't think its fleecing at all, they're just looking to make a profit on something people have been asking for a while now, except a lot of people were asking for a LTT edition Snapon driver, and I'd consider paying extra for a black & orange color scheme one if it still had the same quality and warranty as a normal Snapon one. And they admitted everything but the plastic handle was sourced from China, so they're probably making much more profit from each tool, instead of them going with Megapro with a lifetime warranty.

[AnonymousGuy]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

I actually use my tools so having a warranty is nice, and I own a Kobalt ratcheting screwdriver, it's good for longer screws but it isn't very convenient for most PC building uses for that I ended up investing into a iFixit pro tech toolkit, way more than I need but I have all the tools I would ever need for taking apart stuff.

For pretty much everything where I could see a ratcheting screwdriver being useful I'm just reaching for my M4 or M12 hex driver anyways.  Everything electronic I just use the M4 set to the lowest clutch setting so I can really ram through screws quickly.

 

TBH that's the advice I would give.  Go spend $50 more and get this and then you also are on your way in the battery ecosystem where you can get 1/4 or 3/8 impact drivers or jigsaws etc etc.  Plus one of these is useful for all sorts of around-the-house tasks or wood screwing...you can buy hex drill bits and use it as a drill.  Etc. etc.

 

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/Power-Tools/Drilling/Drill-Drivers/2406-22

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

$70 scissors? I hope they were made in the USA

Japan

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

I don't see why you think the location in which something is made immediately decides it's value, and whether it's a good product or not.
I've bought plenty of things made in the US (or Japan, or Germany) that have left a lot to be desired.

Its definitely a bad stereotype that a product made in china = bad, but it actually surprisingly holds true for tools for the most part. But i'm most concerned about worker's working conditions and pay. I'd prefer to buy a product made in a company with decent human rights laws.

[Ultraforce]

6 hours ago, pstrick2 said:

You really can't underestimate the cult of personality that forms around youtubers. (Not saying that's good or bad)

 

This is for all the LTT viewers to buy and put on a shelf. People develop attachments to brands and people (those so-called parasocial relationships) and the screwdriver is just a way to cash in on that. Youtube especially has this problem.

 

Something with a lifetime warranty, like Snap-On or even Kobalt is a better deal for anybody who actually does work.

Do you think LMG is going to warranty your screwdriver when the ratchet mechanism snaps? Hell no.

 

It doesn't matter if it's a good screwdriver. The screwdriver is just the vehicle for transferring money from the marks to LMG's coffers.

 

Look at the bookbag that they are releasing. That is aimed at the 14-21 year old crowd, like most of LTT's current products. You have to assume this screwdriver has the same target audience.

These aren't people looking to get a quality product for an affordable price. These are bros looking to strengthen their (illusory) parasocial relationship with Linus. You can't put a price on that.

(for example, the retail price for a 40ox water bottle from mythermoflask.com (same brand LTT uses) is 17.50. Nobody who buys a water bottle for LMG does it because they need one. It's all some weird psychological thing.)

 

Also, non-ratcheting screwdrivers cost $1 at Lowes.

I don't know if the target audience for LTT's products are 14-21 year olds, maybe I was just a weirdo but even as someone who lived with their parents I wouldn't buy extra pillows in my teens/early 20s. That seems more like the 25-50 type of age crowd which I think is much more likely as you don't make an ABC book for high schoolers. You make it for parents with young children.

[Ultraforce]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

He's stated on multiple occasions that this isn't a computer specific screw driver. I even watched the video again just to make sure, and not a single time does he mention computer work. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from. If it was, it'd likely come with a more specific bit loadout and be smaller.

I know this now for the screwdriver teaser here linked at 3:36 he talks about them spending a lot of time and a lot of money to make sure they are the best screwdrivers for building PCs. I do think in a video for the general release of the screwdrivers, it might be wise to show them being used for building furniture or doing work on a boat just to have the marketing not be completely overshadowed by the fact that this is a screwdriver made by a prominent PC building YouTuber that is going to be the best for building PCs.

I do though generally agree with a lot of your statements which is part of why I said that I am at least interested in seeing the reviews. If I no longer have easy access to a bunch of screwdrivers, having a small handful of quality tools that I use for everything is preferable over what the current household having bought whatever on sale and end up with three boxes of electronic screwdrivers that all use different batteries.

[LinusTech]

Thanks for the comments, Dizmo. 

 

I suspect what we'll end up doing is seeing how things go out of the gate. It's a lot easier for us to improve things later than to realize that there's some horrible legal liability issue we haven't encountered and all of a sudden I'm 85 hand-packing people warranty replacements or some shit because they dropped their screwdriver and we didn't cover our asses enough in the T&Cs.

 

We know it's a good product. Producing it in China has actually been a step-up compared to MegaPro's recommended manufacturer in Taiwan who ended up fucking us over. The tolerances are better and their communication has been outstanding. We'd probably have launched months ago if we'd been working with them in the first place.

 

And no, it's not substantially cheaper, and if anything, losing some (or all.. not sure yet) of our deposit with the first manufacturer is actually making it more expensive. 

We are not going to pretend to be perfect at this, but we know we're new and that's why we partnered with someone experienced. If all goes according to plan, 100k units won't be enough and we'll be reordering before the end of the year.

[TrigrH]

It boggles my mind that people will swallow a $20 printed cotton shirt but can't understand why a customized high quality ratcheting screwdriver is $70?

 

Just having a magnet that isn't shit makes it worthwhile for me  

[FliP0x]

It's pretty much with any product ever.

 

If you can't justify the price of a certain product, then the product is not for you.

 

If 150 $ sneakers are too much for you, you'll be fine with 50 $ sneakers.
If you can't justify spending 10 $ on a gourmet hamburger, then you will be fine with a regular 2 $ burger.

 

Same applies to screwdrivers: if 70 $ for a screwdriver (although, the LTT screwdriver is much more than 'just a screwdriver') is too much for your needs, then you don't need one. You'll be fine with regular cheap screwdriver.

[Thaldor]

11 hours ago, dizmo said:

You wouldn't really be getting the same features, though. You'd be getting a similar concept, but the ratchet is likely no where near as precise, bits made of different material, made with cheaper plastics, etc etc. You're basically trying to say you can get a Ferrari for the price of a Focus, because they both drive down the road.

As I said those were only for price comparison, as in where competition is pricewise and where I, personally as in me if I was doing it, would try to get my screwdrivers price. I don't believe LTT screwdriver is any other way  even competing in the same weight class as those. More or less I was just trying to argue that LTT screwdriver isn't a ripoff because it has tons of costs to cover and we aren't talking about a company that's main thing is producing and selling screwdrivers.

 

Quote

It's funny, your last paragraph basically sums up why you would pay more for a screwdriver (or any other item, really). You never know unless you try it. Though, one should expect bits to break. They're a consumable item if you do anything even remotely close to work with them.

Me, never! [*looks at Beha-Amprobe AM-555-EUR, hammer ordered from a blacksmith, Skewdriver kit, probably couple too many puukkos custom made for certain things...*]

 

Well... Ok, I would be the guy with the $70 screwdriver but I have certain requirements. It needs to actually be something more or something I really need in it, I need to see and hold it before I buy it (I know I could order it and return if I don't like it, but in case of expensive tools it's more of a principle for me), the price needs to come from features or quality and, kind of again, I really need to need it. Ratcheting screwdriver isn't really in the top list of things I need (I would rather need that powered screwdriver) and while $70 would be considerable price for me but I need to add the shipping and taxes to that and around $100€ screwdriver just isn't.

 

Just to underline. I don't doubt LTT screwdrivers quality or any of that. Mostly because I don't personally know its quality and I am more comfortable believing Linus delivering a quality product reflecting its price. I would hope it had some kind of "wow" feature that would clearly set it aside from the cheap market, like it was 1000V insulated or the shaft was coated to lessen the risk of it damaging anything or something. But $70 for a quality tool isn't that bad.

[Imbadatnames]

21 hours ago, dizmo said:

I knew this was going to be a bad time as soon as you started comparing it to the screw driver that comes in a socket set. They're not even close to the same beast. After reading a lot of your comments, I get the feeling that you're quite young, as there's a lot of concepts I don't think you fully grasp yet. Understandable.

Not really? I’m an electric technician and sometimes you have to remove quite a lot of shit to get to the junction box you need to get to. Can’t do that with a “prosumer” screwdriver, I’d probably need a new one every day. An actual toolkit and in a lot of a cases a crane is needed. 

21 hours ago, dizmo said:

 

Makita honestly isn't what it used to be, and it's more...consumer than prosumer, which is more in line with what LTT making. During my years in construction you'd very rarely see a Makita tool unless it was a rookie just starting out, or someone who had to run to the store and they were out of Dewalt, Hilti, Milwaukee, etc.

I’ve used all of those and they’re all about the same including Makita.

21 hours ago, dizmo said:

 

I don't think you're the type of person that would dive into the more expensive end of anything. You get the cheaper version, it works, so you consider it good enough. Which is totally fine, lots of people are like that, and virtually everyone is like that in one way or another. I'll give you an example. I have very expensive kitchen knives. I was at a friends, and he had a new set of knives. We were making dinner, he was saying how amazing they were. Sure, they're good. It's a knife, how much innovation can there be right? Not much? That's where you'd be wrong. The balance, sharpness, ability to keep an edge, all are substantially better on my knives. Does everyone need that, or desire anything more than what they've already tried and deemed good? Nope. But that doesn't mean that those more expensive knives are a rip off, nor does it mean there isn't a market for them. That market simply isn't you. Similarly, if things are well build and you take care of them, they can last a lifetime. I've had my Braun shaver (which was their highest end model) for almost 20 years, still works as good as the day I got it.

Guessing you’ve never heard of ceramic knives? There’s a difference between a tool being better and worth the money and being the same and just charging more for the name.

21 hours ago, dizmo said:

 

He's stated on multiple occasions that this isn't a computer specific screw driver. I even watched the video again just to make sure, and not a single time does he mention computer work. So I'm not sure where you're getting that from. If it was, it'd likely come with a more specific bit loadout and be smaller.

I agree. The warranty with something like this is significantly more important than any other item they've made. There's a ratchet on the inside. Compared to a water bottle, the chances of something breaking is significantly higher, and it's not easy to replace, like the lid from a water bottle (both in practice and cost). That's something they're really going to have to sort out, and probably should have done so before manufacturing it, in case they wanted to implement some kind of serialized warranty system.

While I'll agree that you can get some that are around that price, if you're paying $10 there's no way in hell they're quality, and there's no way in hell it's made in any of those three countries.

A racket isn’t hard to make pretty sure my dad has had the same cheap ratchet screwdriver for the last 20 years. 

21 hours ago, dizmo said:

It's not at all like Beats. It's expensive for some very good reasons; they're pretty well made, and they will simply hand you a new one, at your jobsite, without you going anywhere. Lifetime warranty isn't much good to a working professional when you have to wait 4 to 6 weeks to get your tool replaced. At that point, you might as well simply buy another. Not sure why you're bringing power tools into this.

I’m bringing power tools in because it shows the standard of the company. They literally take a cheap drill and rebadge it and bump the price.

[Yoinkerman]

As a communications professional and hobbyist engine builder, I don't mind replacing a mediocre $30 screwdriver or using a cut off wheel on a cheap wrench.

 

A $100CAN++ screwdriver I expect better.

 

You guys aren't pitching this as a novelty item like the pillows, you're literally pitching it to guys like me who both have the means to buy and the appreciation for a tool that just works nicely and doesn't piss you off.  

 

I would figure about a 2-3 year warranty is a good spot.  You're not a huge company selling $15 screwdrivers for $70. (That's how outfits like snap on work everyone, they sell you a marginally better product at a huge markup and wow people with "lifetime warranties")