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AMD starts selling Playstation 5 APU

AdamBGames
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Posted (edited)

MAJOR EDIT: After doing more research today it seems the mention of the Xbox Series X is actually WRONG, the chip apparently is closer to the PS5, it was just that the original mentions of this chip were calling it an Xbox Series X APU. 

 

Summary

 AMD has released a motherboard and APU kit that consists of slightly defective PS5 (Previously said XBox Series X) chips that can be used as a conventional computer, but requires GDDR6 memory to function, is only compatible with select GPUs, and only has Windows 10 Drivers. 

 

Quotes

Quote

 AMD has silently launched the AMD 4700S eight-core processor desktop kit. This chip consists of an Xbox Series X APU that suffered from defects during the manufacturing process, making it unsuitable for use in the Xbox.

 

My thoughts

 Like the previous Xbox's APU, I think the releasing of slightly defective chips is both a good and bad idea, while you possibly get some decent APU performance, you also have the issues that may arrise by the fact they are by definition, defective (What I mean by this is, it's not fully stated what defects, other than most likely, video output, these chips have, are there thermal issues? for example, and if so, what limitations are put in place to prevent these, it's a bit vague in the article), and with limited Operating system compatability and driver support, this could be a very hard sell. If they had more support I could easily see these as low power versions of AMD's upcoming APUs which would be excellent for server based applications, especially with a recommendation of only 250W power supplies. But as they are right now, I don't see them having a future. 

 

Sources

 https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-launches-recycled-xbox-series-x-apu-4700s-desktop-kit 

 

https://m.hexus.net/tech/news/systems/148032-amd-quietly-lists-4700s-8-core-processor-desktop-kit/

 

www.pcgamer.com/amp/this-amd-mini-pc-kit-is-likely-made-out-of-b0rked-ps5-chips/

Edited by AdamBGames
MAJOR UPDATE! Previously said Xbox Series X, I have been informed this is wrong and that it is actually defective PS5 APUs.

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Posted

No issues will arise because that's not what a defective chip means. It's not the wild west and they will turn off the defective portions. It's what all of Intels lineup is. An i5 is a defective i7 which is now a i9 and so on. But now since we are seeing chiplet designs yields are high enough that they don't need to do this anymore.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Quote

...but we already know that the chip is an eight-core, 16-thread APU with a disabled or defective iGPU.

Isn't the iGPU in the APUs a separate module/chiplet? Wouldn't they test that silicon before they bothered to stick it on the interposer?

 

I mean, I guess it could be an issue in the assembly process, but if AMD has enough of bad chips that they're engineering a board to sell them on, I think they have other problems, IMO.

Main System (Byarlant): Ryzen 7 5800X | Asus B550-Creator ProArt | EK 240mm Basic AIO | 16GB G.Skill DDR4 3200MT/s CAS-14 | XFX Speedster SWFT 210 RX 6600 | Samsung 990 PRO 2TB / Samsung 960 PRO 512GB / 4× Crucial MX500 2TB (RAID-0) | Corsair RM750X | Mellanox ConnectX-3 10G NIC | Inateck USB 3.0 Card | Hyte Y60 Case | Dell U3415W Monitor | Keychron K4 Brown (white backlight)

 

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Network:

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                           ┌─────────────── Office/Rack ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
Google Fiber Webpass ────── UniFi Security Gateway ─── UniFi Switch 8-60W ─┬─ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╦═ Veda (Proxmox Virtual Switch)
(500Mbps↑/500Mbps↓)                             UniFi CloudKey Gen2 (PoE) ─┴─ Veda (IPMI)           ╠═ Veda-NAS (HW Passthrough NIC)
╔═══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╩═ Narrative (Asus USB 2.5G NIC)
║ ┌────── Closet ──────┐   ┌─────────────── Bedroom ──────────────────────────────────────────────────────┐
╚═ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╤═ UniFi Switch Flex XG ═╦═ Byarlant
   (PoE)                 │                        ╠═ Narrative (Cable Matters USB-PD 2.5G Ethernet Dongle)
                         │                        ╚═ Jesta Cannon*
                         │ ┌─────────────── Media Center ──────────────────────────────────┐
Notes:                   └─ UniFi Switch 8 ─────────┬─ UniFi Access Point nanoHD (PoE)
═══ is Multi-Gigabit                                ├─ Sony Playstation 4 
─── is Gigabit                                      ├─ Pioneer VSX-S520
* = cable passed to Bedroom from Media Center       ├─ Sony XR65A80K (Google TV)
** = cable passed from Media Center to Bedroom      └─ Work Laptop** (Startech USB-PD Dock)

 

Retired/Other:

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3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

No issues will arise because that's not what a defective chip means. It's not the wild west and they will turn off the defective portions. It's what all of Intels lineup is. An i5 is a defective i7 which is now a i9 and so on. But now that we are seeing chiplet designs yields are high enough that they don't need to do this

True, reading the article again, I did see that from what I can guess the main issue must be something to do with video output since the APU has that disabled. But it will be interesting to see what kind of performance they provide with a descrete GPU

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Now if only Microsoft would capitalize by giving us an Xbox OS for a cheap X/360 emulation PC. 

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50 minutes ago, AbydosOne said:

Isn't the iGPU in the APUs a separate module/chiplet? Wouldn't they test that silicon before they bothered to stick it on the interposer?

 

I mean, I guess it could be an issue in the assembly process, but if AMD has enough of bad chips that they're engineering a board to sell them on, I think they have other problems, IMO.

For what it's worth, the APUs in the PS4/5 and XB1/Series have all been one die. They're not the same beast as desktop Ryzen APUs.

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Probably the GPU portion is lasered off, the CPU can't clock as high in the power and thermal limit or a combination of both. If the GPU portion is good though it is an absolute steal, even if they lasered off two cores.

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The lack of any display out, requiring the use of one of a very limited selection of discrete GPU's, seems like it seriously kills the usefulness of this thing. Unless they did that because the iGPU is gone, as the post above suggests. 

Corps aren't your friends. "Bottleneck calculators" are BS. Only suckers buy based on brand. It's your PC, do what makes you happy.  If your build meets your needs, you don't need anyone else to "rate" it for you. And talking about being part of a "master race" is cringe. Watch this space for further truths people need to hear.

 

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It's a shame that the GPU portion of the chip is the one that is disabled. Would've been a really awesome SFF PC for a whole variety of uses, but needing a dGPU just for video output makes this a really niche product, even if it is just getting rid of what would be e-waste. Especially in the current market when even the lowest end dGPUs are heavily inflated in price. Would be interesting if AMD would eventually sell defective Xbox chips with partially disabled CPU cores but fully/partially enabled GPU dies.

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The ram is much faster than regular systems and seems to be the unique selling point of this system. I'd love to test one to see how it does. The 'X has two speed ram at 336-560GB/s. That compares to dual channel 3600 ram which would be 56 GB/s. If they don't limit the ram speeds it could be 6x to 10x faster. Obviously the main driving point of that fast ram is for graphics, but that's not to say CPU can't benefit from it.

 

Anyone know if the APUs have Infinity Fabric running internally between ram and cores or do they skip that? IF would cripple everything I just said.

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8 minutes ago, Eviljuche said:

Not something new, There are tons of mini-ATX motherboards with pre-soldered Xbox APUs on aliexpress

Yeah, this was done with the previous Xbox, like I said. But this is the first time it's been officially released, as far as I am aware. 

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4 hours ago, comander said:

The FULL PS5/XBSX APUs are pretty beastly overall. They're a bit low on RAM for me but I could totally get something usable by slapping in a 188GB Optane 800p (just PCIe x2) and using it as a mix of SSD cache + page file. It'd handle all my current use cases pretty darn well while having a number of positive characteristics (e.g. only one chip to cool) for something like a SFF PC. 

It would be... If the video out wasn't disabled. 

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Quote

PCIE® Slots

1X PCIe® x16 Slot, Supports (x4 Gen 2 Signal)

That is disappointing, especially since you need to use a dedicated GPU. I would've thought the CPU could have provided more PCIe lanes. I guess on the xbox it only uses x4 for the storage drive and doesn't need any other PCIe expansion, I thought that was PCIe Gen 4.0 though. Is the PCIe 2.0 x4 limitation on the PCIe x16 slot a result of needing the chipset and USB controller? Does that mean the PCIe slot is actually coming from the chipset and not direct to the CPU? Would explain why it's PCIe Gen 2.0.

 

Quote

M.2 SSD Slot

No

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2 hours ago, Arika S said:

I struggle to acknowledge this as an "APU".

 

AMDs APUs in the most common language is something with an iGPU. this is not that.

I kinda do too

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That's cool I guess.

Really by now MS can literally just make a XB branded PC as well as pre-config ones at this point being how XB is not just a console anymore, but a platform too.

 

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10 hours ago, porina said:

Anyone know if the APUs have Infinity Fabric running internally between ram and cores or do they skip that? IF would cripple everything I just said.

Internal chip IF and inter-chip IF are actually different things with different latencies and bandwidth. All communication with Zen architectures is called IF but there's different parts to it.

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is it really an APU if it doesnt have a functioning graphical processor unit?

 

whats this non APU formerly known as APU CPU comparable with?

its got 8 cores i guess? 

 

 

ps: shoulda call it exAPU64 hire me AMD 

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55 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Internal chip IF and inter-chip IF are actually different things with different latencies and bandwidth. All communication with Zen architectures is called IF but there's different parts to it.

Ok, when I hear IF I think of the link between IOD and CCDs. That is wholly inadequate to make any use of GDDR assuming that is in a similar configuration to that of the consoles. Ideally it would be several multiples faster.

 

If they instead run slower GDDR bandwidth, then I'm lost on the usefulness of this offering. It would just be Zen 2 but worse.

 

48 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

is it really an APU if it doesnt have a functioning graphical processor unit?

I'd still call it an APU without a working GPU. It signifies it shares the weaknesses of APUs such as lower cache and much less connectivity compared to the main desktop parts.

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16 minutes ago, porina said:

If they instead run slower GDDR bandwidth, then I'm lost on the usefulness of this offering. It would just be Zen 2 but worse.

 

I'd still call it an APU without a working GPU. It signifies it shares the weaknesses of APUs such as lower cache and much less connectivity compared to the main desktop parts.

Because this product is just Zen 2 but worse. It doesn't take advantage of any of great graphics potential from a fully enabled Xbox die, it has significantly constrained connectivity, even when said connectivity is mandatory for video out, and shares the weaker cache of Zen 2. The only interesting factor in this product is the GDDR5 instead of DDR4, but the benefits or drawbacks of that are unknown right now (at least to me). This is simply a way for AMD to get rid of stock in a more official way and perhaps make a little bit more than if they just threw them to Chinese resellers.

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1 hour ago, porina said:

Ok, when I hear IF I think of the link between IOD and CCDs. That is wholly inadequate to make any use of GDDR assuming that is in a similar configuration to that of the consoles. Ideally it would be several multiples faster.

 

If they instead run slower GDDR bandwidth, then I'm lost on the usefulness of this offering. It would just be Zen 2 but worse.

Really not sure, parts you want to know is the SDF. I would imagine it'll all have to be tailored to GDDR5. My thinking is data widths widened to match GDDR5 and then everything clocked at the command rate of GDDR5 to about ~1.4GHz. So I'd say a 50/50 between in a way better but also worse.

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After seeing the performance of the 4800HS in my new laptop, I really wish AMD would sell their higher-tiered APUs to the public. The integrated graphics are not mind-blowing, but someone needing a powerful processor that doesn't want to shell out $200 for a GT 1030 would be well-served by one for a standard desktop. 

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28 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

After seeing the performance of the 4800HS in my new laptop, I really wish AMD would sell their higher-tiered APUs to the public. The integrated graphics are not mind-blowing, but someone needing a powerful processor that doesn't want to shell out $200 for a GT 1030 would be well-served by one for a standard desktop. 

its already on the way, just taking them a bit of time to have enough volume for DIY, OEM and laptops https://www.anandtech.com/show/16720/amd-ryzen-5000g-zen-3-apus-for-desktop-coming-august-5th

 

 

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10 hours ago, leadeater said:

Really not sure, parts you want to know is the SDF. I would imagine it'll all have to be tailored to GDDR5. My thinking is data widths widened to match GDDR5 and then everything clocked at the command rate of GDDR5 to about ~1.4GHz. So I'd say a 50/50 between in a way better but also worse.

One possible scenario I can imagine is that GDDR bandwidth is mostly fed to the GPU part. It doesn't necessarily follow to provide full bandwidth to CPU cores. It was a long time ago so I may be misremembering, I think it was the "Chinese Xbox" video with an older gen similar product which seemed like the full bandwidth was available to the cores. A parallel question is what will AMD do with DDR5? Similar problems will exist and something different to today will need to be done.

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3 hours ago, porina said:

One possible scenario I can imagine is that GDDR bandwidth is mostly fed to the GPU part. It doesn't necessarily follow to provide full bandwidth to CPU cores. It was a long time ago so I may be misremembering, I think it was the "Chinese Xbox" video with an older gen similar product which seemed like the full bandwidth was available to the cores. A parallel question is what will AMD do with DDR5? Similar problems will exist and something different to today will need to be done.

No sure, don't think I've seen any detailed logical diagrams that shows bus connectivity, widths, cycles, bandwidths etc etc for these chips, only things like this:

Microsoft Xbox Series X Architecture Deep Dive at Hot Chips 2020 | Tom's Hardware

 

Not exactly enlightening.

 

PS5 one I found is a little better:

TweakTown Enlarged Image

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