Nvidia Crypto mining cards are now on sale (and they are extremely overpriced).

[Craftyawesome]

What's with the memory bandwidth? 336 GB/s and 192 bit bus is 75% of a 3060 ti, but that gets ~60 MH/s after OC. Is the turing GPU in there really worse than a RX 580? If miners have to core OC to improve speed, they probably won't get much more and would lose efficiency.

 

Granted, I'm not sure an easy way to save money with less bandwidth. Lowering the vram capacity a mere 1GB would put it dangerously close to the ever growing eth dag relatively soon. Restarting GDDR5 production or making a new cheaper and slower GDDR6 might not be cost effective, either.

 

And if an underpowered GPU was the concession to save cost, why does the 40HX have more memory and likely more bandwidth, presumably the same as the 3060 ti? Surely it can't use the extra?

[tishous]

3 minutes ago, lewdicrous said:

Riding the mining boom, maybe.

Or maybe it's something they'll release in the future.

Yeah, I have to remember this is Nvidia we're talking about. They're not one to decline money even if it goes against what they're saying. 

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

These cards are built on Turing, not Ampere. So they'd be re releasing 2xxx cards as Ampere if they did that. People would be more angry about that then who buys what card now.

I wouldn't be upset as long as they released cards with the same performance for less. But again, this is Nvidia. I was naive to expect anything other than grabbing the most profits.

 

The thing that bothers me the most is that they keep flipping sides. They release a 3060 with mining limiters, good. Then they announce mining only cards and not even a month after the release they leak the drivers to unlock said limiters, all while smiling and saying "we're for gamers, trust us we're looking out for you guys!"

[IkeaGnome]

3 minutes ago, Craftyawesome said:

What's with the memory bandwidth? 336 GB/s and 192 bit bus is 75% of a 3060 ti, but that gets ~60 MH/s after OC. Is the turing GPU in there really worse than a RX 580? If miners have to core OC to improve speed, they probably won't get much more and would lose efficiency.

It basically seems to be a more power efficient 2060. Which also lowers hash rate.

https://minerstat.com/hardware/nvidia-rtx-2060

2 minutes ago, tishous said:

The thing that bothers me the most is that they keep flipping sides. They release a 3060 with mining limiters, good. Then they announce mining only cards and not even a month after the release they leak the drivers to unlock said limiters, all while smiling and saying "we're for gamers, trust us we're looking out for you guys!"

That's any major corporation. Look at some of the stuff Thermaltake gets away with. MSI. There's plenty more, that's just the first two that come to my mind in tech.

[tishous]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

That's any major corporation. Look at some of the stuff Thermaltake gets away with. MSI. There's plenty more, that's just the first two that come to my mind in tech.

That's why I don't and will not buy from MSI. I'm not sure what Thermaltake has done, but I wouldn't say they get away with this stuff. When any scandal involving MSI happened, basically the whole tech community ganged up on them and they were forced to apologize and do something to make up for what they did. That's not what is happening with Nvidia. They seem to be doing whatever they want with almost no widespread backlash and this mining card is a result of that. 

[IkeaGnome]

1 minute ago, tishous said:

whole tech community ganged up on them and they were forced to apologize and do something to make up for what they did. That's not what is happening with Nvidia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

Re:blaming miners for supply issues.

 

If people focused on the problem(besides pandemic) which is Just in time shipping, poorly designed supply lines and not enough redundancy, we could get somewhere.

[Craftyawesome]

10 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

It basically seems to be a more power efficient 2060. Which also lowers hash rate.

https://minerstat.com/hardware/nvidia-rtx-2060

Looking into it a little more, this card is basically a 1660 super. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-cmp-30hx-mining-gpu-market-723-dollars

Same base/boost clock as a Palit GeForce GTX 1660 Super. I guess I forgot how bad/mediocre turing was.

[tishous]

Just now, IkeaGnome said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

Re:blaming miners for supply issues.

 

If people focused on the problem(besides pandemic) which is Just in time shipping, poorly designed supply lines and not enough redundancy, we could get somewhere.

What??

 

I'm not blaming Nvidia for GPU shortages and the current state of the market. I'm blaming Nvidia for constantly switching sides and going against who they say they are for. I understand there are many reasons for prices being so high, but Nvidia is taking advantage of the current situation and doing everything they can to profit off it.

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Craftyawesome said:

Looking into it a little more, this card is basically a 1660 super. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-cmp-30hx-mining-gpu-market-723-dollars

Same base/boost clock as a Palit GeForce GTX 1660 Super. I guess I forgot how bad/mediocre turing was.

You are correct! I forgot 1660S was on Turing. The weird part is, higher power usage and still lower rates.

https://minerstat.com/hardware/nvidia-gtx-1660-super

4 minutes ago, tishous said:

What??

 

I'm not blaming Nvidia for GPU shortages and the current state of the market. I'm blaming Nvidia for constantly switching sides and going against who they say they are for. I understand there are many reasons for prices being so high, but Nvidia is taking advantage of the current situation and doing everything they can to profit off it.

I know you're not. I was referring to gamers vs miners (not) vs suppliers. Where MSI "changed" because there was enough outcry. Miners blaming gamers and gamers blaming miners gets us no where except where we've been on these forums the last couple of weeks. Anytime a GPU is mentioned it turns into Crypto bad(I'm not denying it is bad for the environment), which turns into "Well gamers do this" or "gamers do that". 

It could be when a GPU is mentioned "There's not enough supply and supply chains are crap right now". People forget that if these two groups actually found ways to get along and worked against the main problem(ignoring pandemic, supply was going to end up being an issue at some point anyways) stuff could change. If the source of the majority of a companies' income is all saying "This is not working, stuff needs to change" they can't really resist. Gamers don't have enough spending power to "TRULY" change NVIDIA or AMDs mind any more than miners would separate from the other group.

That was all I was getting at there. I should have been more clear in my last post. 

[Blademaster91]

36 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

These cards are built on Turing, not Ampere. So they'd be re releasing 2xxx cards as Ampere if they did that. People would be more angry about that then who buys what card now.

I doubt people would be angry about having a card to buy, with the current market i'm sure anyone that has a PC built but can't use it without a GPU would be fine with a RTX 2060 relabeled as an RTX 3050.

17 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoating

Re:blaming miners for supply issues.

 

If people focused on the problem(besides pandemic) which is Just in time shipping, poorly designed supply lines and not enough redundancy, we could get somewhere.

Miners aren't the only ones to blame, but miners are definitely a reason for the shortages, especially the ones with a mining farm, or at least those that bought a dozen cards.

19 minutes ago, tishous said:

That's why I don't and will not buy from MSI. I'm not sure what Thermaltake has done, but I wouldn't say they get away with this stuff. When any scandal involving MSI happened, basically the whole tech community ganged up on them and they were forced to apologize and do something to make up for what they did. That's not what is happening with Nvidia. They seem to be doing whatever they want with almost no widespread backlash and this mining card is a result of that. 

Well there was a recent twitter from Zotac promoting mining, they took it down and acted like it never happened, no apology from them so I don't plan on buying anything from Zotac.  The whole RTX 30 series has been a mess, and Nvidia saying the driver leak was an "accident" and that CMP cards somehow help gamers even though no miner that cares about their ROI will buy those. It makes me want to give AMD a try, also because ray tracing isn't a feature to get excited about IMO so I may look for a 6800XT if the supply situation improves and prices return to normal.

Its just sad theres no almost no criticism, yet reviewers criticize AMD for putting out more cards.

[tishous]

1 minute ago, IkeaGnome said:

I know you're not. I was referring to gamers vs miners (not) vs suppliers. Where MSI "changed" because there was enough outcry. Miners blaming gamers and gamers blaming miners gets us no where except where we've been on these forums the last couple of weeks. Anytime a GPU is mentioned it turns into Crypto bad(I'm not denying it is bad for the environment), which turns into "Well gamers do this" or "gamers do that". 

It could be when a GPU is mentioned "There's not enough supply and supply chains are crap right now". People forget that if these two groups actually found ways to get along and worked against the main problem(ignoring pandemic, supply was going to end up being an issue at some point anyways) stuff could change. If the source of the majority of a companies' income is all saying "This is not working, stuff needs to change" they can't really resist. Gamers don't have enough spending power to "TRULY" change NVIDIA or AMDs mind any more than miners would separate from the other group.

That was all I was getting at there. I should have been more clear in my last post. 

Ah right, I understand you.

 

I somewhat agree. For a company like Nvidia whose GeForce graphics cards are meant for gamers to then sell mining cards using the very architecture and silicon meant for gaming GPUs just because it is what's trending irks me. That's my problem. If they had a whole brand for mining GPUs I likely wouldn't be as frustrated. It's them constantly doing every single thing they can to just get that bit more profit instead of keeping their integrity intact that frustrates me.

 

Blaming each other does nothing, I'll give you that, and miners and gamers should at least try to stop the arguments about who has it worse and start using their money to change how Nvidia operates because them having this much freedom to do whatever they want isn't beneficial for any consumer.

[IkeaGnome]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I doubt people would be angry about having a card to buy, with the current market i'm sure anyone that has a PC built but can't use it without a GPU would be fine with a RTX 2060 relabeled as an RTX 3050.

But scalpers!

/s

But not really /s? 

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Miners aren't the only ones to blame, but miners are definitely a reason for the shortages, especially the ones with a mining farm, or at least those that bought a dozen cards.

Correct, miners are a part of the problem, but when you really back away and look at it... Would scalpers be making as much money as they are if suppliers could back up their supplies? Depending on how you want to view it.. 

From NVIDIA's POV on supply: "People are buying these too fast. We can't keep up!" People in their case would be miners, gamers, scalpers, scientists(more so for the 3090), video editors, music producers, server owners, super computers.

From gamers point of view: "People are buying these too fast. We can't keep up!" In this case people turns into everyone but gamers, including Nvidia.

Same goes for any of the other groups. 

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

It makes me want to give AMD a try, also because ray tracing isn't a feature to get excited about IMO so I may look for a 6800XT if the supply situation improves and prices return to normal.

I absolutely love my 6800xt. I went with it off the basis that I don't RTX (I have a 2070 that has never once had Ray Tracing turned on), I don't need CUDA cores. 

2 minutes ago, tishous said:

Blaming each other does nothing, I'll give you that, and miners and gamers should at least try to stop the arguments about who has it worse and start using their money to change how Nvidia operates because them having this much freedom to do whatever they want isn't beneficial for any consumer.

And now we see the issues with a duopoly. AMD has been a lot quieter in all this, but they have production and supply problems too. If they didn't, people would be buying them up much faster, and they'd still have a problem.

Their stock levels are more intertwined than I think we'll ever realize. If both companies expect to sell 100,000 GPUs (just throwing out easy, round numbers) and Nvidia knows they usually sell 70%, they know they only need to make 70,000 GPUs. On the flip side of that, AMD knows they only need to make 30,000. One running out of stock causes issues for the other which trickles down. 

[tishous]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Well there was a recent twitter from Zotac promoting mining, they took it down and acted like it never happened, no apology from them so I don't plan on buying anything from Zotac.  The whole RTX 30 series has been a mess, and Nvidia saying the driver leak was an "accident" and that CMP cards somehow help gamers even though no miner that cares about their ROI will buy those. It makes me want to give AMD a try, also because ray tracing isn't a feature to get excited about IMO so I may look for a 6800XT if the supply situation improves and prices return to normal.

Its just sad theres no almost no criticism, yet reviewers criticize AMD for putting out more cards.

Me too. Zotac's cards are mediocre anyway.

 

I don't buy it being an accident. At this point, I wouldn't put it past them to straight up lie about it in order to keep their good guy "for the gamers" facade. I'm waiting for the rx 6700 or 6600xt, depending on price. I don't care about ray tracing and AMD performs better at 1080p and 1440p than their price equal from Nvidia, so I just have to hope the market has kind of returned to normal by then.

[Craftyawesome]

2 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

You are correct! I forgot 1660S was on Turing. The weird part is, higher power usage and still lower rates.

https://minerstat.com/hardware/nvidia-gtx-1660-super

I image these cards are a bit better tuned than the stock 30HX. Considering these were supposedly chips that weren't good enough to be in a Geforce card, I'd argue original clocks is suspiciously close to the same.

[tishous]

4 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

And now we see the issues with a duopoly.

I was going to mention this. Having Intel enter the GPU market competitively may be more important than we know. Just having that third company there will make Nvidia and AMD rethink their pricing which can only benefit consumers.

[Craftyawesome]

I do wonder how much they actually sell for from Nvidia. They could probably sell for a little more than scalped 580 cards, as long as you can buy lots at a time, instead of mostly one at a time from ebay. If there is no bulk buying, they need to be even lower.

[CTR640]

2 hours ago, tishous said:

Me too. Zotac's cards are mediocre anyway.

 

I don't buy it being an accident. At this point, I wouldn't put it past them to straight up lie about it in order to keep their good guy "for the gamers" facade. I'm waiting for the rx 6700 or 6600xt, depending on price. I don't care about ray tracing and AMD performs better at 1080p and 1440p than their price equal from Nvidia, so I just have to hope the market has kind of returned to normal by then.

You gotta be the biggest Jensen's personal c*cksucker to believe it was an accident. It's waaay too obvious it wasn't! nVidia did it on purpose and from that moment, nVidia is on my black list. I'll see what my options are after 3-4 years. Zotac is cancer and MSI too since their bullshit about their gaming laptop is powerfull enough for mining. I don't care about ray tracing too but knowing nVidua, they'll force it through our throats and making us overpay more for the Tensor cores or whatever the cores are responsible for ray tracing. How can nVidia think ray tracing will be standard if this shit keeps going on? Clearly they don't care one bit about it at all.

[Moonzy]

5 hours ago, Drama Lama said:

I‘m wondering how much better it is for a miner to buy these instead of normal GPUs. Because these cards can’t be easily resold like normal graphics cards. Right?

tagging @Moonzy for this question 

I never liked the idea of mining specific equipments

 

I like having backup plans

 

And seeing how it's so shit for the price, rip

Truly waste of silicon that could've gone to a gaming card

[Moonzy]

6 hours ago, CTR640 said:

nVidia has been on my blacklist since a few days ago after the "accident' bullshit

You might wanna revisit that

The "accident" unlocking of the limiter was actually for gamers to mine, not large scale miners

They're doing gamers a favor here, at least that's what I found out from my testings

[TheBahrbarian]

8 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

I never liked the idea of mining specific equipments

 

I like having backup plans

 

And seeing how it's so shit for the price, rip

Truly waste of silicon that could've gone to a gaming card

Yeah I agree. The only reason I ever would have considered buying one is if it was dirt cheap compared to a similar hashrate GPU counterpart. Because the likelihood that crypto crashes after I buy this and turns it into a fancy paperweight is too high. At least if you have a GPU you can use it for gaming or in another PC, or sell it used to a gamer who wants it. I mean what the heck is this pricing? I could go on ebay right now and pick up a Vega 64 for $600 or so that will do 45Mh/s. I guess I shouldn't be surprised Nvidia wasn't gonna use their "wE'Re dOiNg ThIs fOr GaMeRs" marketing ploy to also sell overpriced crap.

[IkeaGnome]

18 hours ago, Moonzy said:

3060 test result: (performance is of the 3060, other card performance is normal unless stated otherwise)

 

System:

Ryzen 5 3600

B550 Tomahawk MAG ATX

 

PCIE 2.0

  Reveal hidden contents

- 3060 x16: 25MH/s

 

PCIE 3.0

  Reveal hidden contents

- 3060 x16: 48MH/s

- 3060 x8: 48 MH/s

- 3060 x4: 25 MH/s

- 3060 x1 (riser): 25MH/s

 

- 3060 x16, 3060 ti x4: 48MH/s

     - Display move to 3060ti: 25MH/s 

 

Speculated requirements:

- pcie 3.0 or above, x8 connection or above

- having a display plugged into the 3060

 

Works alongside other GPU, as long as above conditions are met.

 

Given the above conditions, I tried plugging in a HDMI to VGA converter without actually plugging in a display, I get the full hash

I'll move it to one of my rigs and see how it fares

 

Thoughts:

Good news to gamers who wish to mine while not using their PC, miners will have to get creative if they wanna use it

 

But the existence of this driver tells us that the limit is on the driver side(?) Can't be too sure though

 

2 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

You might wanna revisit that

The accident unlocking of the limiter was actually for gamers to mine, not large scale miners

They're doing gamers a favor here, at least that's what I found out from my testings

Shhhhhhh don't make them read the full story if they don't want to...

[Niswendel]

6 hours ago, ZuppaSalata said:

Summary

After being announced by Nvidia over a month ago, their entry-level crypto mining card is now available and can be purchased for "only" ~720$. 

This card is based on Turing architecture, has 6 GB of GDDR6 memory and can reach 26 MH/s mining Ehereum. 

 

 

 

Quotes

 

My thoughts

I really don't understand this product.

I think that the card itself is pretty bad (26 MH/s is lower than a RX 580), also the fact that is being sold for 720$ is a complete joke since you can buy an RX 580 for 300/400$ and that would have a higher hashrate, higher efficiency and a resell value. Who's going to pay 720$ for literally a piece of e-waste ? 

Also the fact that the 3060 can now mine Ethereum really doesn't help. 

 

Sources

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-cmp-30hx-crypto-mining-processor-goes-on-sale

This hurt to read

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, lewdicrous said:

The e-waste argument is very valid. Although, seeing as this isn't the first time they made mining-centric cards, I'm not surprised that they did it again.

 

I do wonder if these are just low binned cards that are being repurposed for mining, instead of throwing the silicon away. That would kinda make sense considering that memory is more important than clock speeds, at least from what I understand.

We won't find out until someone tries to use it like dGPU off a system with an iGPU. It's always been possible to do this (eg open a window on GTX and drag it over to the Intel HD Graphics, and maintain 90% of the frame rate, without having any special drivers) the question is if it acts like a GPU at all, or only exposes the CUDA/RT portion.

 

[PeachGr]

I wonder if they ll have Optix, so that they can run other renders as well

[Rauten]

Oh my!

It's an absolute waste of silicon!

 

WHO WULDV'E THUNK

[Blademaster91]

13 hours ago, IkeaGnome said:

But scalpers!

/s

But not really /s? 

Correct, miners are a part of the problem, but when you really back away and look at it... Would scalpers be making as much money as they are if suppliers could back up their supplies? Depending on how you want to view it.. 

From NVIDIA's POV on supply: "People are buying these too fast. We can't keep up!" People in their case would be miners, gamers, scalpers, scientists(more so for the 3090), video editors, music producers, server owners, super computers.

From gamers point of view: "People are buying these too fast. We can't keep up!" In this case people turns into everyone but gamers, including Nvidia.

Same goes for any of the other groups. 

I absolutely love my 6800xt. I went with it off the basis that I don't RTX (I have a 2070 that has never once had Ray Tracing turned on), I don't need CUDA cores.

I think scalping would be less of an issue if crypto crashed again, there would be much less of a reason for scalpers to sell 3060Ti's for $1000 if miners didn't want them so badly.

Although I would have to assume Nvidia has some stats on people bulk ordering RTX cards, I kinda doubt video editors, music producers, server owners, or super computer companies are buying consumer RTX cards in bulk amounts.

I'd probably give RTX a try, however the impact on performance doesn't seem worth it to me to leave it on for every game, but RTX voice and NVENC are features worth getting an RTX card for so if the prices were normal the 6800XT would be better priced at $599 instead of $649.

13 hours ago, tishous said:

Me too. Zotac's cards are mediocre anyway.

 

I don't buy it being an accident. At this point, I wouldn't put it past them to straight up lie about it in order to keep their good guy "for the gamers" facade. I'm waiting for the rx 6700 or 6600xt, depending on price. I don't care about ray tracing and AMD performs better at 1080p and 1440p than their price equal from Nvidia, so I just have to hope the market has kind of returned to normal by then.

I am avoiding MSI too after their whole laptop review incident, and promoting gaming laptops for mining, and MSI cards are sort of overpriced since they're using plastic backplates on their more expensive cards.

I think the driver leak was on purpose, although being able to mine could help for someone willing to pay the jacked up prices for a GPU since it could be used for mining to recover the cost when not being used for games or work. From what I understand only a single 3060 can be used in a system to mine at the full rate.