Apc UPS provides backup to pc under load during power outage but sometimes shuts down under load during outage. PLEASE HELP.

[Mahbub]

Ok so this is driving me crazy, my APC UPS is BR1500G 865 watt, 1.5 years old. Off late sometimes it has started shutting down when under load during a power outage, it shuts off even tho my PSU is 750 watts and my PC takes 400 to 450 watts under max load (peripherals included). I performed the plug pull test under load and one out of four times on average it shuts down, other times it gives me 10 minutes of backup under load. So I am assuming the battery has capacity so why is it sometimes shutting down even tho the PC wattage is well under what the UPC can provide and it's just 1.5 years old. Please help.

[ToboRobot]

Is it just your computer connected to it?  No monitors, or other devices?

Does it display any warnings?

Here is the product documentation with troubleshooting info... https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=User+guide&p_File_Name=BU+UM+990-3787C+MN01+EN.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=SPD_EALN-7V5MXA_EN

[Agall]

14 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

Ok so this is driving me crazy, my APC UPS is BR1500G 865 watt, 1.5 years old. Off late sometimes it has started shutting down when under load during a power outage, it shuts off even tho my PSU is 750 watts and my PC takes 400 to 450 watts under max load (peripherals included). I performed the plug pull test under load and one out of four times on average it shuts down, other times it gives me 10 minutes of backup under load. So I am assuming the battery has capacity so why is it sometimes shutting down even tho the PC wattage is well under what the UPC can provide and it's just 1.5 years old. Please help.

Is it next to you while you're using it, and if so, is it clicking often as if its losing AC and switching to battery?

[Mahbub]

3 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Is it just your computer connected to it?  No monitors, or other devices?

Does it display any warnings?

Here is the product documentation with troubleshooting info... https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=User+guide&p_File_Name=BU+UM+990-3787C+MN01+EN.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=SPD_EALN-7V5MXA_EN

all peripherals, but all of them plus PC draws 450 watts on max load

[Mahbub]

4 minutes ago, Agall said:

Is it next to you while you're using it, and if so, is it clicking often as if its losing AC and switching to battery?

not often but sometimes yes it does that

[OhioYJ]

I know I had a an issue with one of my APC UPSs, and I ended using a kill-a-watt and other appliances (like a toaster) to test mine.  I will also say I contacted APC and their support was great and they replaced mine.  (Mine did have an issue)

[Agall]

37 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

not often but sometimes yes it does that

Those aren't designed to be constantly kicking on then sustaining a heavy load for extended periods of time. Its designed to last long enough for brown outs or a safe shutdown for a complete loss of AC.

 

If its kicking on intermittently while under a heavy load, the battery probably isn't fully charged when you go to test it. 

[WereCat]

When you install their SW you can select from 3 modes of sensitivity for power outages. Just use the most sensitive one. Default is the middle one I believe.

[Mahbub]

13 minutes ago, WereCat said:

When you install their SW you can select from 3 modes of sensitivity for power outages. Just use the most sensitive one. Default is the middle one I believe.

already did but still same

[Mahbub]

the issue issometimes under  load when power goes it gives 10 mins backup which is fine, but sometimes even tho battery is full and it should give me 10 mins, it shuts down the PC in power outage

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Mahbub said:

Ok so this is driving me crazy, my APC UPS is BR1500G 865 watt, 1.5 years old. Off late sometimes it has started shutting down when under load during a power outage, it shuts off even tho my PSU is 750 watts and my PC takes 400 to 450 watts under max load (peripherals included). I performed the plug pull test under load and one out of four times on average it shuts down, other times it gives me 10 minutes of backup under load. So I am assuming the battery has capacity so why is it sometimes shutting down even tho the PC wattage is well under what the UPC can provide and it's just 1.5 years old. Please help.

If it is only happening at the point of a power outage or disconnecting the mains (testing) then it is likely the transfer time. Your UPS is rated at 8ms typical and 12ms max and your PSU may not handle transfer times greater than 8ms, during transfer is essentially a brown out. The reason why the transfer time is variable is it depends where on the sinewave of the mains power source it is when the power fails.

 

Also your UPS is only a stepped sinewave output rather than true sinewave which not all PSUs and devices like all that much.

 

If you are able to try a different PSU then I would do that and then repeat your power failure testing to see if a different PSU has better hold up time and less sensitivity to transfer and not being on a true sinewave source.

 

A large wattage rated PSU will typically have longer hold up time on the same device load compared to a lower wattage rated PSU, not always. 

https://www.emea.lambda.tdk.com/it/KB/How-to-increase-a-power-supplys-holdup-time.pdf

 

Changing out your PSU is likely going to be cheaper than getting a better more expensive true sinewave UPS, but I'd be looking to borrow one or try a different one you have on hand first before spending any money.

[Mahbub]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

If it is only happening at the point of a power outage or disconnecting the mains (testing) then it is likely the transfer time. Your UPS is rated at 8ms typical and 12ms max and your PSU may not handle transfer times greater than 8ms, during transfer is essentially a brown out. The reason why the transfer time is variable is it depends where on the sinewave of the mains power source it is when the power fails.

 

Also your UPS is only a stepped sinewave output rather than true sinewave which not all PSUs and devices like all that much.

 

If you are able to try a different PSU then I would do that and then repeat your power failure testing to see if a different PSU has better hold up time and less sensitivity to transfer and not being on a true sinewave source.

 

A large wattage rated PSU will typically have longer hold up time on the same device load compared to a lower wattage rated PSU, not always. 

https://www.emea.lambda.tdk.com/it/KB/How-to-increase-a-power-supplys-holdup-time.pdf

 

Changing out your PSU is likely going to be cheaper than getting a better more expensive true sinewave UPS, but I'd be looking to borrow one or try a different one you have on hand first before spending any money.

damn, thats expensive af.. seriously   i bought the pro uops thinking its better,,,, can u tell me what kinda ups is this https://www.apc.com/in/en/product/BVX2200LI-IN/apc-easy-ups-bvx-2200va-230v-avr-india-sockets/?range=65934-easy-ups&parent-subcategory-id=88975&selectedNodeId=27590329547

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Mahbub said:

damn, thats expensive af.. seriously   i bought the pro uops thinking its better,,,, can u tell me what kinda ups is this https://www.apc.com/in/en/product/BVX2200LI-IN/apc-easy-ups-bvx-2200va-230v-avr-india-sockets/?range=65934-easy-ups&parent-subcategory-id=88975&selectedNodeId=27590329547

 

Quote

Transfer time
6 ms typical : 10 ms maximum

 

Quote

Wave type
Stepped approximation to a sinewave

Slightly better than what you have, still not true sinewave but better transfer time. I'd still suggest trying to borrow a different PSU and see if that doesn't have the problem. A new UPS is quite expensive. You might find a 1000W PSU doesn't have an issue running your current load on the existing UPS.

[Mahbub]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

 

 

Slightly better than what you have, still not true sinewave but better transfer time. I'd still suggest trying to borrow a different PSU and see if that doesn't have the problem. A new UPS is quite expensive. You might find a 1000W PSU doesn't have an issue running your current load on the existing UPS.

U mean the psu link i sent is better? But the one i have is pro series with like a display and a fancy app in windows, and the link i sent u is from a lower tier series, like i bought the more expensive pro for nothing then in 2022 lol.. apc is drunk. Anyways ill try out different ups to see if it persists

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

U mean the psu link i sent is better? But the one i have is pro series with like a display and a fancy app in windows, and the link i sent u is from a lower tier series, like i bought the more expensive pro for nothing then in 2022 lol.. apc is drunk. Anyways ill try out different ups to see if it persists

UPS not PSU, and that BVX 2200VA is just based on a newer platform which is why it is slightly better in some aspects. But like I mentioned trying a different PSU in the computer is probably the better way forward cost wise.

 

The UPS you have now is actually fine, I just suspect it's not pairing well with your computer/PSU is all which is fixable. More expensive PSU's tend to have better hold up times and handle being on UPS that isn't true sinewave better, it's not always about the rated wattage but like the link I gave if you need more then a large PSU will give you that all things being equal.

 

Main thing to do is confirm that this issue is what I think it is and have described to you, ideally at no cost in doing so.

[Mahbub]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

UPS not PSU, and that BVX 2200VA is just based on a newer platform which is why it is slightly better in some aspects. But like I mentioned trying a different PSU in the computer is probably the better way forward cost wise.

 

The UPS you have now is actually fine, I just suspect it's not pairing well with your computer/PSU is all which is fixable. More expensive PSU's tend to have better hold up times and handle being on UPS that isn't true sinewave better, it's not always about the rated wattage but like the link I gave if you need more then a large PSU will give you that all things being equal.

 

Main thing to do is confirm that this issue is what I think it is and have described to you, ideally at no cost in doing so.

Sorry mistype..  i meant UPS.. I know uos amd pau arent same. Just mistyped. I meam i cant change psu now cz mine has an sfx psu, coolermaster 750, and sfx ones are expensive.. but i am very surprised to know bvx2200 is better than br1500g, even tho latter has fancy features..  none the less ill change to another ups first and check

[leadeater]

24 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

mine has an sfx psu

Ahhh this is actually really important information. So smaller formfactor PSUs like SFX actually have much smaller capacitors in them so their hold up time is lower and they are more sensitive to the types of issues you are experiencing.

 

What I mean by testing is just use a PSU outside of the case, just wire it in and do your unplug the UPS from power test and see if you don't get the issue on a full sized ATX. Would just be good to confirm because what I suspect might be the cause might not be it at all. Of course you have to have another PSU to test with which you might not have or be able to borrow.

 

24 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

sfx ones are expensive

Yea true that

 

24 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

but i am very surprised to know bvx2200 is better than br1500g

A lot of Pro features are more to do with the manageability of the UPS like being able to monitoring it via network etc. These don't have any impact on it's electrical performance. The main thing to know is that there are different types of UPS (how they operate) and different types of electrical voltage conversion and output (simulated sinewave vs true sinewave)

 

The UPS types are:

• Standby or Offline - Longer transfer time (limited power protection similar to that of a surge protector)
• Line Interactive - Shorter transfer time (additional power protection and compensation, however minimal)
• Online or Online Double Conversion - No transfer time (Complete isolation from mains power, full possible protection)

https://community.fs.com/article/line-interactive-vs-online-vs-offline-ups.html

 

For your situation the best possible would be an Online UPS since power is always being delivered via the battery and DC-to-AC conversion is always happening thus there is zero disruption to power when mains power is lost aka no transfer time. The only problem with Online UPS's are they are much more expensive, however you can safely operate much closer to it's rated maximum power and if you go over that it'll automatically switch the power source to bypass or directly from mains power without interruption.

 

https://www.amazon.com/APC-1000VA-Smart-UPS-Uninterruptible-SRT1000XLA/dp/B072MJDZCK?th=1

 

As you can see $900 USD for a 1000VA (900W) is a lot.

 

I honestly don't really have any good suggestions other than either live with the issue if it's not too problematic or find the cheapest way to mitigate the problem which is either a better or higher wattage SFX PSU (strongly recommend contacting the PSU brand support and ask about this before buying), or any Online UPS which would easily be the most expensive option but also the only one I could 100% say will not have any potential problems.

[Mahbub]

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ahhh this is actually really important information. So smaller formfactor PSUs like SFX actually have much smaller capacitors in them so their hold up time is lower and they are more sensitive to the types of issues you are experiencing.

 

What I mean by testing is just use a PSU outside of the case, just wire it in and do your unplug the UPS from power test and see if you don't get the issue on a full sized ATX. Would just be good to confirm because what I suspect might be the cause might not be it at all. Of course you have to have another PSU to test with which you might not have or be able to borrow.

 

Yea true that

 

A lot of Pro features are more to do with the manageability of the UPS like being able to monitoring it via network etc. These don't have any impact on it's electrical performance. The main thing to know is that there are different types of UPS (how they operate) and different types of electrical voltage conversion and output (simulated sinewave vs true sinewave)

 

The UPS types are:

• Standby or Offline - Longer transfer time (limited power protection similar to that of a surge protector)
• Line Interactive - Shorter transfer time (additional power protection and compensation, however minimal)
• Online or Online Double Conversion - No transfer time (Complete isolation from mains power, full possible protection)

https://community.fs.com/article/line-interactive-vs-online-vs-offline-ups.html

 

For your situation the best possible would be an Online UPS since power is always being delivered via the battery and DC-to-AC conversion is always happening thus there is zero disruption to power when mains power is lost aka no transfer time. The only problem with Online UPS's are they are much more expensive, however you can safely operate much closer to it's rated maximum power and if you go over that it'll automatically switch the power source to bypass or directly from mains power without interruption.

 

https://www.amazon.com/APC-1000VA-Smart-UPS-Uninterruptible-SRT1000XLA/dp/B072MJDZCK?th=1

 

As you can see $900 USD for a 1000VA (900W) is a lot.

 

I honestly don't really have any good suggestions other than either live with the issue if it's not too problematic or find the cheapest way to mitigate the problem which is either a better or higher wattage SFX PSU (strongly recommend contacting the PSU brand support and ask about this before buying), or any Online UPS which would easily be the most expensive option but also the only one I could 100% say will not have any potential problems.

Damn, i mean living with it is like out of like 4 times outage once it will suddenly turn off.. is that dangerous for the pc? Right now i cant afford a different psu, or a new ups, i can only test it with old ups which is even worse, its same pro but 1000va. 

 

I actually thought to contact apc help for warranty, bht from ur explanation it seems the problem aint the psu atall

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

is that dangerous for the pc?

Minimally so, there is potential for problem however it's quite low.

 

3 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

Damn, i mean living with it is like out of like 4 times outage once it will suddenly turn off

How often do you actually get power interruptions?

 

4 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

Right now i cant afford a different psu, or a new ups

A more affordable option is to save up enough to buy a used/second hand Online UPS off ebay or similar. They are actually very reliable and if you need the UPS protection because you are getting frequent power interruptions this is the lower cost of entry.

 

It would still be worth contacting APC support since they would have experience with these types of problems and they may have a suggestion I'm not thinking of.

[Mahbub]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Minimally so, there is potential for problem however it's quite low.

 

How often do you actually get power interruptions?

 

A more affordable option is to save up enough to buy a used/second hand Online UPS off ebay or similar. They are actually very reliable and if you need the UPS protection because you are getting frequent power interruptions this is the lower cost of entry.

 

It would still be worth contacting APC support since they would have experience with these types of problems and they may have a suggestion I'm not thinking of.

Ok ill contact support .. and power outage happens on average once a day or once every 2 days... I am seriously worried now.. 

[Mahbub]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Minimally so, there is potential for problem however it's quite low.

 

How often do you actually get power interruptions?

 

A more affordable option is to save up enough to buy a used/second hand Online UPS off ebay or similar. They are actually very reliable and if you need the UPS protection because you are getting frequent power interruptions this is the lower cost of entry.

 

It would still be worth contacting APC support since they would have experience with these types of problems and they may have a suggestion I'm not thinking of.

https://www.apc.com/in/en/product/SRC1KUXI/apc-smartups-rc-1000va-230v-no-battery-4x-india-3pin-6a-outlets/

 

Can u check if this is pure sine wave or not? I heard somewhere that ups can be sine wave when connected to power but become stepped when switched to battery, this one says sine wave, but m not sure . Plz kindly check and tell me

[leadeater]

24 minutes ago, Mahbub said:

https://www.apc.com/in/en/product/SRC1KUXI/apc-smartups-rc-1000va-230v-no-battery-4x-india-3pin-6a-outlets/

 

Can u check if this is pure sine wave or not? I heard somewhere that ups can be sine wave when connected to power but become stepped when switched to battery, this one says sine wave, but m not sure . Plz kindly check and tell me

That one is true sinewave yes

[Mahbub]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That one is true sinewave yes

and u were right,, the issue most possibly is because my psu is active pfc, and doesn't go well with impure sine wave ups,  so ups is probably fine,, but its not sine wave is the issue

[Kisai]

On 5/24/2024 at 8:14 AM, Mahbub said:

Ok so this is driving me crazy, my APC UPS is BR1500G 865 watt, 1.5 years old. Off late sometimes it has started shutting down when under load during a power outage, it shuts off even tho my PSU is 750 watts and my PC takes 400 to 450 watts under max load (peripherals included).

Is the battery new-ish? Older models don't like PFC PSU's. I had the older model a few years ago and it's inverter just straight up died one day.

 

I have the current BACK UPS PRO 1500 S (BR1500MS), which is sinewave. It gets like 5 minutes on battery if there is a load.

 

At any rate, don't do "pull from wall" tests, these tend to damage the UPS due to the loss of ground.

 

The MS2 is also sinewave.

 

[Caroline]

What's the input voltage? the voltage measured across the wall socket where the UPS is plugged in while the PC works at 100% load.

 

The clicking and the fact that sometimes you have 0 runtime means it's using the battery, and one of the reasons that happens is a low input voltage that falls below the threshold the UPS can handle, the clicking you hear are the relays working to switch between mains and battery.

For a 120V input 100 would be low, and for 230V 200 would be low.