Verified actual gamer program might hurt more than it helps.

[teq3dw]

I know the program is very vell intentioned and can help people buy these cards for MSRP now. But as long as companies have not finished shipping cards that have been ordered and paid for AT LAUNCH, it is a slap in the face to every one of their customers still awaiting their the arrival of their order.

I for one bought a 3080 strix mid september and yet my retailer simply didn't get the card yet. And no, they are not selling the card at scalper prices right now they delisted all these cards for the time being so I believe their email status updates claiming that they simply don't know when the card might arrive.

Now you could say that this might be a single incident and I am simply unlucky and chose the wrong retailer, but thanks to proshop and their transparency regarding order numbers, you can see that I am not alone in this.(https://www.proshop.de/RTX-30series-overview) For example the 3080 TUF still shows 250 unfilled customer orders from launch day. That is 250 people waiting for their cards while those very cards now get sold to others in the verified actual gamer program.

Of course companies take the free publicity to take part in this well intentioned program, but if they really had our best intentions at heart, they would fill all these old orders first.

 

Sorry for the rant and I respect the well meaning effort here, but you are at the same time giving companies free advertising on the back off paying customers waiting for almost half a year for their card.

 

[TetraSky]

So... you're mad because another store is getting cards, but the retailer that decided to let you order a backordered product still haven't received any?

Blame your retailer for selling something they don't have. Not to mention, that's a store in Germany, no?

Stocks allocated to NA have next to nothing to do with EU stocks.

 

It's not even about free publicity. Why are you skewing the message like that? It's about selling cards to people who actually need them, instead of scalpers who buys everything on traditional stores in 0.1s.

[Ar558a]

I presume LMG will be sourcing cards that aren't earmarked for other retailers. If LMG could gurantee they were going to the right place they wouldn't need to do this. I'm guessing without this 95% of whatever volume they get would go to scalpers or miners. Sorry if that means you miss out but I would rather see 100% of thesecards go to gamers than risk them getting in the hands of those guys.

[teq3dw]

Hi TetraSky,

 

thank you for your answer.

 

I think selling items on backorder is standard practice. Retailers order these cards by the thousands and fill orders as they come in. The times where companies held huge stock in warehouses are mostly over.

Your point of NA stock and EU stock being separate issues is correct but I doubt that the situation is very different anywhere else from what I can read on the net. This might be a wrong perception though and if NA had their backorders filled I am in the wrong.

I ordered at a different retailer than proshop. It simply is the only shop I know of that publishes these numbers. If I had ordered there, I would have a card right now since their oldest customer order for that particular card is from 1st of october while mine is from september, but that is besides the point.

I am also very aware that the intention of the LTT team is to provide people with cards at msrp. As I said very well intentioned.

But the reality is that companies like the mentioned ASUS and MSI play along with this not because of their good nature or because they have our best interest at heart, but simply because it is free advertising.

[dizmo]

Interesting point, however your problem would be with Asus for allowing it, not LTT for taking advantage of the offer.

 

Just now, TetraSky said:

So... you're mad because another store is getting cards, but the retailer that decided to let you order a backordered product still haven't received any?

Blame your retailer for selling something they don't have. Not to mention, that's a store in Germany, no?

Stocks allocated to NA have next to nothing to do with EU stocks.

 

It's not even about free publicity. Why are you skewing the message like that? It's about selling cards to people who actually need them, instead of scalpers who buys everything on traditional stores in 0.1s.

It is, though. Asus isn't doing this from the goodness of their heart, they weighed the pros and cons and decided it was a smart business decision.

Just now, Ar558a said:

I presume LMG will be sourcing cards that aren't earmarked for other retailers. If LMG could gurantee they were going to the right place they wouldn't need to do this. I'm guessing without this 95% of whatever volume they get would go to scalpers or miners. Sorry if that means you miss out but I would rather see 100% of thesecards go to gamers than risk them getting in the hands of those guys.

Pretty hard to think that these cards aren't (or shouldn't be) earmarked for retailers.

Miners are still customers. You deciding that a gamer deserves them is just as bad as saying that miners do.

[teq3dw]

17 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

I presume LMG will be sourcing cards that aren't earmarked for other retailers. If LMG could gurantee they were going to the right place they wouldn't need to do this. I'm guessing without this 95% of whatever volume they get would go to scalpers or miners. Sorry if that means you miss out but I would rather see 100% of thesecards go to gamers than risk them getting in the hands of those guys.

Hi Ar558a,

 

I totally get that. And it isn't even about me as a person. I am in the unfortunate situation that my sons graphics card died and I wanted to hand him mine down, so it would be handy to have a new one but I am fine with my (not so) good (but very) old vega64 for now. It simply stinks to me that I can now go ahead and buy a card that some Manufacturer set aside for "actual real gamers" while other "actual real gamers" (or not) are waiting for their order to finally fill. But than it might be my german nature making me allergic to people cutting the line for whatever reason. I think if these manufacturers actually were after anything else than publicity, they would make sure that cards went out to old orders first and ignore everything else.

[Ar558a]

2 hours ago, teq3dw said:

Hi Ar558a,

 

I totally get that. And it isn't even about me as a person. I am in the unfortunate situation that my sons graphics card died and I wanted to hand him mine down, so it would be handy to have a new one but I am fine with my (not so) good (but very) old vega64 for now. It simply stinks to me that I can now go ahead and buy a card that some Manufacturer set aside for "actual real gamers" while other "actual real gamers" (or not) are waiting for their order to finally fill. But than it might be my german nature making me allergic to people cutting the line for whatever reason. I think if these manufacturers actually were after anything else than publicity, they would make sure that cards went out to old orders first and ignore everything else.

 

Really bad luck that your sons GPU died, it's a situation we are all dreading at the mo. As a brit we are even less happy with Queue cutting under normal circumstances, I just don't see how we could guarantee that any of the cards LMG are getting would be heading to people with pre orders from months ago and not those who are just abusing the situation.  It is Manufacturers responsibility to fulfil orders and it's pretty crappy they aren't doing it.

 

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Miners are still customers. You deciding that a gamer deserves them is just as bad as saying that miners do.

Well technically they are customers but I doubt they get much sympathy round here. They are profiteering from a perverse use of a GPU to further a crazy market in imaginary currency which as far as I can tell are only used by drug dealers, credit thieves and paedophiles.

[IkeaGnome]

1 minute ago, Ar558a said:

Well technically they are customers but I doubt they get much sympathy round here. They are profiteering from a perverse use of a GPU to further a crazy market in imaginary currency which as far as I can tell are only used by drug dealers, credit thieves and paedophiles.

You'd be surprised at how many people here mine... Why have a GPU sit idle for most of the day when it can pay for it's self...

[Ar558a]

1 minute ago, Voluspa said:

You'd be surprised at how many people here mine... Why have a GPU sit idle for most of the day when it can pay for it's self...

There is a difference between mining with a card you already have and buying specifically for mining tho....

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Ar558a said:

There is a difference between mining with a card you already have and buying specifically for mining tho....

How so? Either way you are a paying customer to the manufacturer. Either way you are using the product for something it is designed to do...

[Ar558a]

1 minute ago, Voluspa said:

How so? Either way you are a paying customer to the manufacturer. Either way you are using the product for something it is designed to do...

I'm not saying in a business sense. I'm talking morally....

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Ar558a said:

I'm not saying in a business sense. I'm talking morally....

What makes you or I more special than a miner?

[Ar558a]

Mining is morally questionable at best, you are fuelling a volatile market that vulnerable people think is a wise investment. Added to that I have seen NO legitimate businesses accepting crypto currencies which means they are largely used for crime. 

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Ar558a said:

Mining is morally questionable at best, you are fuelling a volatile market that vulnerable people think is a wise investment. Added to that I have seen NO legitimate businesses accepting crypto currencies which means they are largely used for crime. 

So just like the stock market?

Do you have sources that it's primarily used for crime?

[Ar558a]

Crypto is WAY more volatile than the stock market. If you invest in even a single stock (an unwise strategy) that company will have some fundamentals that mean it is listed on the NASDAQ / DOW JONES / FTSE100 etc. Crypto sometimes doubles and halves in value in 24-48 hrs.

I can't prove it, but I haven't seen it accepted on any website I use which definitely points to  a significant amount of criminal usage. 

[IkeaGnome]

Just now, Ar558a said:

Crypto is WAY more volatile than the stock market. If you invest in even a single stock (an unwise strategy) that company will have some fundamentals that mean it is listed on the NASDAQ / DOW JONES / FTSE100 etc. Crypto sometimes doubles and halves in value in 24-48 hrs.

I can't prove it, but I haven't seen it accepted on any website I use which definitely points to  a significant of criminal usage. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-false-narrative-of-bitcoins-role-in-illicit-activity/?sh=7f2bfd83432f

Spoiler

The majority of cryptocurrency is not used for criminal activity. According to an excerpt from Chainalysis’ 2021 report, in 2019, criminal activity represented 2.1% of all cryptocurrency transaction volume (roughly $21.4 billion worth of transfers). In 2020, the criminal share of all cryptocurrency activity fell to just 0.34% ($10.0 billion in transaction volume). 

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2019_IC3Report.pdf

Spoiler

Crypto is used in a small percentage of crimes...

 

So what makes us more entitled to GPUs than miners, besides the opinion of "It seems morally wrong to me?"

[Ar558a]

Well that's one report I'm not sure I agree and it's clear that that US Treasury Secretary (who was Chairman of the Fed) agrees with me. 

 

Seems like you are a fan and thats up to you. 

 

GPU's are designed  for Gaming, all the technical developments in Ray Tracing, DLSS etc are for Gaming so using them for Mining on a grand scale IS A perversion.  It doesn't make a difference really as AMD and Nvidia will sell them to anyone. Gamers have to hope the bubble bursts as if it doesn't PC gaming will die no-one will pay $500 for a 3 year old card long term. 

[maskmcgee]

3 hours ago, TetraSky said:

It's about selling cards to people who actually need them

 

Nobody needs a graphics card except people who's buisinesses' rely on them - such as miners. 

[Ar558a]

3 minutes ago, maskmcgee said:

 

Nobody needs a graphics card except people who's buisinesses' rely on them - such as miners. 

Well nobody needs lots of things, mobile phones, microwaves etc but they were designed as allowing PC owners to play games. Miners have set up their "Businesses" specifically knowing they were perverting the use of the product. I hope all large scaler miners lose their houses and then we can have the GPU market back to normal.

[TetraSky]

28 minutes ago, maskmcgee said:

Nobody needs a graphics card except people who's buisinesses' rely on them - such as miners. 

Yeah sure, whatever floats your boat.

Nobody needs anything more than food, water and shelter. Lets all just wallow in our own survival without anything else in our lives. 

[Letgomyleghoe]

56 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

Mining is morally questionable at best, you are fuelling a volatile market that vulnerable people think is a wise investment. Added to that I have seen NO legitimate businesses accepting crypto currencies which means they are largely used for crime. 

morally questionable? how, please explain. Is steam not a legitimate business? is microsoft not a legitimate business?  twitch? newegg? I mean come on, if you're going to make claims like that at least make have some reasoning. 

54 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

Crypto is WAY more volatile than the stock market. If you invest in even a single stock (an unwise strategy) that company will have some fundamentals that mean it is listed on the NASDAQ / DOW JONES / FTSE100 etc. Crypto sometimes doubles and halves in value in 24-48 hrs.

this is like saying a company makes shitty products because one their products is bad. there are very stable crypto's, they are literally called stable coin, most mimic the U.S dollar in price, so they are just as stable as regular money. And just like crypto is volatile, there are volatile stock too, take GME for instance, we all saw that and take these instance in the link below. 
https://www.tradingview.com/markets/stocks-usa/market-movers-most-volatile/

48 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

Well that's one report I'm not sure I agree and it's clear that that US Treasury Secretary (who was Chairman of the Fed) agrees with me. 

If the US treasury Secretary started supporting crypto the US dollar would lose value, everyone would start flogging to buy crypto. Just like corsair's not gonna go out and say "yea G.Skill ram dimms are just as good as corsair" There's something to lose with the US Treasury Secretary backing another currency. 

50 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

GPU's are designed  for Gaming, all the technical developments in Ray Tracing, DLSS etc are for Gaming so using them for Mining on a grand scale IS A perversion.  It doesn't make a difference really as AMD and Nvidia will sell them to anyone. Gamers have to hope the bubble bursts as if it doesn't PC gaming will die no-one will pay $500 for a 3 year old card long term. 

okay yeah just completely ignore nvidia tesla, quadro''s, amd firepros. Just because something is labelled GTX or RTX doesn't mean it's only for gaming. Just like how a jeep trailcat was made for trails but it does just fine on the pavement. 

44 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

but they were designed as allowing PC owners to play games.

yes, just like how humvees were designed for the military, and p-51s were also made for the military, BUT GUESS WHAT! humvees make good on road civilian cars and p-51's make good  stunt planes. 

[dizmo]

57 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

Well technically they are customers but I doubt they get much sympathy round here. They are profiteering from a perverse use of a GPU to further a crazy market in imaginary currency which as far as I can tell are only used by drug dealers, credit thieves and paedophiles.

You're simply talking out your ass with that. There are many, many people that have used Bitcoin for purchasing houses, cars, etc. Drug dealers are more likely to go for cash than Bitcoin. Credit thieves? Again, unlikely. It's like you think that only a handful of people are buying up all the GPUs, which couldn't be more wrong. There are tens of thousands if not more people mining. They're a customer for the GPU producers, just like someone using it for gaming is.

45 minutes ago, Ar558a said:

Mining is morally questionable at best, you are fuelling a volatile market that vulnerable people think is a wise investment. Added to that I have seen NO legitimate businesses accepting crypto currencies which means they are largely used for crime. 

Really? Here's a handful of examples of large corporations that accept Bitcoin:

• Microsoft
• NewEgg
• ExpressVPN
• Shopify

[IkeaGnome]

1 hour ago, Ar558a said:

Well nobody needs lots of things, mobile phones, microwaves etc but they were designed as allowing PC owners to play games. Miners have set up their "Businesses" specifically knowing they were perverting the use of the product. I hope all large scaler miners lose their houses and then we can have the GPU market back to normal.

How does a GPU make pictures? Math and algorithms. 

How do you get bitcoin and why are GPUs so much better than CPUs at mining it? Math and algorithms. 

I don't see how it's getting used in a "perverted" manner. 

Would you mind finding FACTS that say mining is morally questionable?

You also dodged my other question. What makes you or I more special than someone who makes a living mining? Theoretically, they're more morally in the right. You and I buy these for fun. They buy them to make money to buy food. 

 

All I'm seeing here is a temper tantrum because you can't get "shiny new". I wish a lot less people would think like this.

[Ar558a]

I'm pretty surprised how eager you all are to stand up for mining. 

 

It's up to you I guess and as I say it makes no practical difference. If you can sleep at night then I guess you are in the clear, I believe it is immoral and if you support it you are basically in  a gray error morally at best but no one cares what I think anyway. Don't try and convince me otherwise.

 

I love how you are all tying yourselves in knots trying to prove that GPU's are designed for mining, they aren't it's a side effect of the computational power needed for modern games.

10 hours ago, Voluspa said:

 

You also dodged my other question. What makes you or I more special than someone who makes a living mining? Theoretically, they're more morally in the right. You and I buy these for fun. They buy them to make money to buy food. 

 

All I'm seeing here is a temper tantrum because you can't get "shiny new". I wish a lot less people would think like this.

No one is specifically buying 100s of $500+ GPU's to "Buy food", the investment levels required are clearly run by large scale operations.

 

I had no specific intention of buying a GPU actually but I don't like the worry of knowing if mine dies I can't replace it.

[WkdPaul]

11 hours ago, dizmo said:

Really? Here's a handful of examples of large corporations that accept Bitcoin:

• Microsoft
• NewEgg
• ExpressVPN
• Shopify

Tesla also no ?

 

Plus, there are plenty of companies that sell gift cards in exchange for crypto (not just BTC), I personally changed my BTC and ETH into Amazon gift cards, BTC and ETH pretty much paid for my current build.

 

13 hours ago, Ar558a said:

Well technically they are customers but I doubt they get much sympathy round here. They are profiteering from a perverse use of a GPU to further a crazy market in imaginary currency which as far as I can tell are only used by drug dealers, credit thieves and paedophiles.

wow ... the amount of misinformation you're spreading is ridiculous, really.

 

@Moonzy were you aware that mining and trading crypto automatically made us criminals ?!?!?!

Edited March 8, 2021 by wkdpaul
typo ; words are hard