AMD did NOT disappoint me

[Streetguru]

Need a follow up with Radeon Image Sharpening Vs DLSS

don't think anyone's done an updated test since the older hardware unboxed one.

I use boost on navi anywhere I can for free fps.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

1 hour ago, GabenJr said:

The problem with sorting by FPS is that the positions in the stack can change constantly, and when we used to do that, people complained quite loudly about it. If I'd had my time back for this video, I would have done this order:

• 6800 XT SAM
• 6800 XT
• 3080
• 6800 SAM
• 6800
• 3070

Including SAM results was probably the thing that caused the most clutter, but I didn't want to go through a second round of graphs with SAM on vs off.

Thank you for the response, i really can't figure out how can people complain about something so simple as sorting via performance but what i can say is the current system is really confusing as the imperial system the US uses, the mental gymnastic that i had to do to see where the 3800 lies compared to 6800XT was too damn high. just a feedback, have a nice day. 

[papajo]

1 hour ago, Streetguru said:

Need a follow up with Radeon Image Sharpening Vs DLSS

DLSS is utterly overrated... 

 

1) It's not a common feature only some games support it.

 

2) It's degrading frame quality for FPS at this point what's the difference compared to console games? You buy a PC (besides the extra performance) to have better image quality I mean even nvidia (when this argument suited them) advertised that performance enhancing features such as checkerboard or upscalling yield to lower quality graphics I cant remember the exact article but I think it was around when the Pascal GPUs came and they used some clips from Forza? or a similar racing game zooming in on the textures comparing them to the console ones.. 

 

3) if you want to degrade your image quality to a not so noticeable degree you can use upscaling sharpening AND amd boost... still find that pointless though unless its about a game YOU HAVE TO PLAY at higher resolution for your personal reasons and your GPU simply cant keep on up with it in terms of FPS but it is still a compromise... 

 

 

Nowadays they all go for tricks to degrade image quality to an "unnoticeable" degree to bump FPS without needing extra horse power simply because they get more money selling slower shit ... and I as a consumer and gamer disagree with that approach. 

 

When I started to be a gamer decades ago it was all about image quality not FPS, fps was just to compare if a game is playable with a certain graphics card or as a tie braker between two graphics cards that otherwise offered same eye candy/image quality/technologies 

 

Especially if a game is playable at more than about 80 to 100 FPS I really dont give a crap if it can get double that amount by degrading image qualitty (except in some particular e-sports like counter strike simply because the way they are coded and how extra frames affect server prediction/synchronization/tickrate etc) 

 

The time this becomes a norm (and I hope it doesnt ) I will just game on a console and forget about PC gaming all together... 

 

[eeeee1]

after watching the ltt video on this i can assure myself that i agree. I would still buy nvidia (if the button will finally say "Buy" and not "Out of Stock")

but I think there is still room to improve for both and from AMD's current warpath, I am confident that the second generation will try to match Nvidia.

[Jozhua]

I think AMD probably has the capability to come with a better offering next time around, they did manage to catch up to Intel, although Intel hasn't made much progress in recent years.

 

My off topic ramblings:

Intel is still stuck on 14nm, I wonder if they are having specific challenges trying to do it in-house, or if the bean counters aren't dedicating enough to R&D. I still think that matching AMD's performance on 14nm might be possible, with some incredible overhauls of the whole processor, but then considering how much AMD is advancing on their CPU designs too, who knows!

 

For me, Nvidia still absolutely has the lead. I'm not paying £500 for a graphics card for it to have poor support with things like Maya, After Effects, Premiere and the like. Plus, if I'm gonna splurge on RT compatibility, I want to have the latest, more refined version available. There's no point buying a car with 1000hp if you only have bicycle tyres to put the power down.

 

I think CPU's seem to have less issues in regards to software support, as the architecture tends to be fairly similar between companies (in x86), however, GPUs do differ quite a bit from what I gather, so software support is much more important. If AMD focused on this, then they could probably have something that matches/beats Nvidia's cards fairly squarely. Perhaps investing in keeping the OpenCL platform competitive/supported could be a good idea. If a decent number of people buy the cards as well, then software makers will have an incentive to invest more time into OpenCL compatibility too.

[Nowak]

Were the ray tracing tests done with the press or public driver? Because I've heard that ray tracing isn't fully enabled in the press driver, or something along those lines.

 

Perhaps when the RX 6900 XT review rolls around we can get some fully enabled ray tracing tests with the RX 6000 series.

[Keith_MM]

Am i going to be alone in thinking i'll sit this one out ? I was  (like everyone) salivating at all the new tech but have NVidia and AMD shot themselves in the foot on a deeper scale than they/commentators have predicted with the lack of stock. Will people just sit back and contemplate and reconsider the whole scheme of things when they would have rushed out and bought one of the cards/chips if they were available?

 

With a 3 year old 8700k 64GB system , the thought of a zen3 system had me thinking , should i take the plunge and build a new computer possibly all amd etc. I work from home normally and use it all day and would use the dad's favourite excuse for upgrading their hardware  "my kids are getting older and they could do with a better computer for their schoolwork etc." when its really ...."i want that  !!!!" . 

 

The lack of cpus and GPUs in the UK will have stopped many people making the impulse purchase. Moving from Intel ...why shouldn't i just wait for AM5 boards/chips to come out since theres likely to be a decent wait for the zen3's to satisfy the demand and its likely to just be a 1 cpu  purchase before the socket is phased out . By waiting 12-18 months  then its likely to get in on the ground floor  and get 2 maybe 3 cpus worth of upgrades out of that platform based on the current AM4 users experiences and avoid a built in obsolesence of the socket getting phased out.

 

Waiting will also mean that money saved now can be put towards the ddr5 , PCIe4 and usb 4 that socket AM5 is going to bring. Another factor that is likely to have a knock on effect is that when people do start getting their hands on the latest GPU cards they are likely to also need a PSU upgrade and looking around there seems to be a shortage of quality PSUs in the uk etailers at the moment and people are pretty quickly going to get pissed off if there systems keep shutting down mid game if their PSUs arent up to the job and decent PSUs in the 750-850 W  become hard to find as everyone is upgradeing their PSU to cope wit htheir fresh GPUs .

 

Whilst not really a gamer , if i was to play games and spending £500+ on a graphics card , i'd want to have the bells and whistles and play it on my 4k monitor at its native resolution with ray tracing as that will probably be the future of gaming and while there may not be many games featuring it now , its importance will only grow.  So why would i want to spend a load on a graphics card which will only struggle as time goes by.?

Looking  at the improvement of nvidias raytracing  on the latest cards compared to the 1st gen raytracing, waiting for am5 , is likely to have the raytracing improvement and AMD will have had time to develop and refine the software to match the hardware.

 

if we have to wait 3-4 months before theres availability  without having to scour websites everyday looking for chips/cards then AM5 gets a lot closer and zen3 system build become even harder for me to justify for myself compared to waiting that bit longer for something that could be way faster and more desirable with a potential upgrade path and i do have plenty of grunt in my current system that it doesnt noticeably hold me back at the moment .

[GDRRiley]

2 hours ago, Jozhua said:

For me, Nvidia still absolutely has the lead. I'm not paying £500 for a graphics card for it to have poor support with things like Maya, After Effects, Premiere and the like. Plus, if I'm gonna splurge on RT compatibility, I want to have the latest, more refined version available. There's no point buying a car with 1000hp if you only have bicycle tyres to put the power down.

they don't have poor support just not the best performance for Maya. AE, PP and others were not test. we've got wait for someone like pudget systems to do that.

there isn't any splurge for RT. this gen you just get it when you step above 250-300$

37 minutes ago, Keith_MM said:

if we have to wait 3-4 months before theres availability  without having to scour websites everyday looking for chips/cards then AM5 gets a lot closer and zen3 system build become even harder for me to justify for myself compared to waiting that bit longer for something that could be way faster and more desirable with a potential upgrade path and i do have plenty of grunt in my current system that it doesnt noticeably hold me back at the moment .

AM5 and zen4 mean DDR5 which is going to be pricey to start. zen3 is going to be around for 12-24 more months.

you don't have to get a new GPU and CPU at the same time.

[papajo]

6 hours ago, GabenJr said:

Re ReLive... You're entitled to your opinion I guess? It looks like a blocky mess with especially bad fringing on the neon signs to me.

I forgot to address this one and only gave you some indications that SAM's performance is affected by available system memory (ram) 

 

 

Well maybe the render you provided in the clip doesnt show up well on my screen but long before this I opened an entire topic about how graphics seem to look better on AMD

 

And that could be due to relive having better video quality (if we assume that all those youtube channels used relive and not some capturing software scheme) 

 

or maybe relive is worse but then again the only conclusion is that AMD GPUs have better image quality (since they couldnt have used relive on my examples since as you say it is a mess)  you could decide which of the two is the case or maybe actually test it? It would be an interesting test. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dizmo]

7 hours ago, Egg-Roll said:

Yea the 2000 series was horrid and was more of an adopter tax/demo card , I'm looking forward to the 4000 series cards before I take RT seriously. Games can be played at 30fps, if one can live at that then sure RT all the way, I can't, anymore.

 

Yup what I meant, but it does make sense since AMD drivers are opensource (I think/in a way) and the fact it's a nix system too with a good community behind it. Maybe now with equal level of competition to nvidia they will have more money to hopefully develop better drivers, at least one can hope. I have had a few hickups back in the 270 days but nothing game breaking or issues that would make me to never buy them again. I still like nvidia (more), but if I can game w/o issues for less and equal performance, I'll always choose that over greed I mean green.

 

I genuinely didn't know about those issues till just now Never had a issue with MSI AB, tho I've not played on it yet, I've only folded on it. Equally I don't have a need to tamper with the stock settings. I guess I have more incentive to actually play on the thing now to see if I run into those issues. Hopefully most or all of those issues are now fixed.

Yeah the next few years is definitely going to be interesting in the world of gaming. So many new techs to implement, performance improvements...I could see a lot of people needing monitor upgrades.

 

AMD needs to dump a ton of money into not only their drivers, but also the added features that Nvidia has like Nvidia Broadcast. They're seriously impressive, and even if someone streams very rarely it can be greatly beneficial. I'm waiting for 2 generations of AMD cards without driver issues, so if this one goes well, and the next one does, then I'll definitely consider them for a future build. Fingers crossed.

 

Haha, yeah they're pretty bad. Jay was talking about how the AMD Reddit is filled with people who sold their cards and got 2000 series Nvidia ones because the issues were so bad. Not a good look.

[DoctorNick]

This review is not very good. I find vastly different results from other benchmarks, including Gamers Nexus, where in most games, at least at 1080, 1440p, 6800XT is up to the task. 

 

[Keith_MM]

8 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

AM5 and zen4 mean DDR5 which is going to be pricey to start. zen3 is going to be around for 12-24 more months.

 

How did you manage to criticise my post with the exact same argument I used?

 

AM5 and zen 4 meaning DDR5 is likely to be expensive IS THE REASON  for not wasting money now getting zen3 , and an amd mobo and tieing money up in a solution with no upgrade path. For current am4 /zen users nobody can fault getting a zen 3 now and making the most of their systems which will then last into a stage where zen4+ /am5 chips/mobos/ddr5 ram have dropped in price  giving them a cheaper upgrade path.

 

The cost of new mobo,chip and ddr5 ram will hopefully reduce demand to a stage where people may actually have a chance at buying them.

 

Similarly with the GPUs , you shouldnt just be factoring in the cost of 3080/6000 series cards  most people are going to need a new PSU in order to run them . If you are spending at least 700 on a GPU and another 100+ on a PSU to run it , why tie that much money up with a 6000 series card that is crippled in raytracing and therefore future games which will hurt resale values when you come to upgrade to the next gen.

 

You say zen3 is going to be around for 12-24 months . great  ..3-4 months of that will probably spent waiting for chips to become available to actually buy , so we're talking about saving a crap ton of money on a dead end platform which could just be saved and put to use on the next generation hardware and putting together a rig in 12 months time that would have 5-7  usable years life  and could be upgraded piecemeal during that time.

 

Quote

you don't have to get a new GPU and CPU at the same time.

Of course you don't have to . However the same argument applies, the  GPUs now are not a cheap investment and i think buyers remorse is going to dwarf fear of missing out on the 6000 series. The crippled raytracing is hardware and maybe they can improve it slightly over time with drivers and dlss type software but its still there. 
 

The underlying performance of the cards from both companies is going to fuel development  and new releases over the coming year(s) so why commit a large sum of money now when you can save that money to spend in 12 months time on better hardware at similar(competition may even mean lower)  prices and where a lot of driver/add on issues will have been ironed out . 

 

For me , I think its better to save my money and put it towards a new rig on AM5 rather than piecemeal upgrades  on mobo/zen3 and or GPUs  at this point in time.

 

For me its a rational decision where the head is overruling the heart.

 

[LordVetinari]

30 minutes ago, Keith_MM said:

The underlying performance of the cards from both companies is going to fuel development  and new releases over the coming year(s) so why commit a large sum of money now when you can save that money to spend in 12 months time on better hardware at similar(competition may even mean lower)  prices and where a lot of driver/add on issues will have been ironed out . 

 

 

There is a risk that this becomes a circular argument though- in the tech space 12-18 months always brings something new and shiny and new upgrade dead ends.

 

One thing I really wouldn't count on is things reducing in price. Manufactures and retailers will charge what the market can bear and the last few release have shown that the market will indeed bear £500+ graphics cards for the top two or three models.  

 

 

[Egg-Roll]

4 hours ago, dizmo said:

Yeah the next few years is definitely going to be interesting in the world of gaming. So many new techs to implement, performance improvements...I could see a lot of people needing monitor upgrades.

 

AMD needs to dump a ton of money into not only their drivers, but also the added features that Nvidia has like Nvidia Broadcast. They're seriously impressive, and even if someone streams very rarely it can be greatly beneficial. I'm waiting for 2 generations of AMD cards without driver issues, so if this one goes well, and the next one does, then I'll definitely consider them for a future build. Fingers crossed.

 

Haha, yeah they're pretty bad. Jay was talking about how the AMD Reddit is filled with people who sold their cards and got 2000 series Nvidia ones because the issues were so bad. Not a good look.

My next build I'll likely upgrade all monitors but for now I'm still at 1080 with the main one having high refresh rate.

 

At least we have OBS and such which is widely accepted for streaming so no real loss there more overhead sure but it's not a deal breaker. However I do agree they do need to spend a lot of money and time on the drivers, hopefully for the next batch.

 

I can't sell mine, it would be a little hard too, well not hard just expensive. At the time I didn't know and with past experience with AMD I went with them, any issues arise I'll know how to fix them and by the sounds of things half the issues revolve around software I typically don't use anyways. Still happy I built it when I did since it was just weeks before the pandemic hit.

 

2 hours ago, DoctorNick said:

This review is not very good. I find vastly different results from other benchmarks, including Gamers Nexus, where in most games, at least at 1080, 1440p, 6800XT is up to the task. 

I'm leaning LTT is becoming more Linus (for his own) Entertainment (this is also reinforced with the recent TechLinked ep), meaning no longer worthy for Tips in the channels name, I found both GN and Jays videos far better more realistic in terms of what you can expect from the card along with more informative. I among many I'm sure would rather a informative video that feels boring for 15 minutes or a 30 minute video that you can skip to parts you care about over a 10-15 minute garbage fest. After all people are investing hundreds of dollars into a GPU (potentially more for SAM and a new CPU) a content creator shouldn't take such things lightly for their viewers and should do as good of a job as possible, which this video has not.

[DoctorNick]

4 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

My next build I'll likely upgrade all monitors but for now I'm still at 1080 with the main one having high refresh rate.

 

At least we have OBS and such which is widely accepted for streaming so no real loss there more overhead sure but it's not a deal breaker. However I do agree they do need to spend a lot of money and time on the drivers, hopefully for the next batch.

 

I can't sell mine, it would be a little hard too, well not hard just expensive. At the time I didn't know and with past experience with AMD I went with them, any issues arise I'll know how to fix them and by the sounds of things half the issues revolve around software I typically don't use anyways. Still happy I built it when I did since it was just weeks before the pandemic hit.

 

I'm leaning LTT is becoming more Linus (for his own) Entertainment (this is also reinforced with the recent TechLinked ep), meaning no longer worthy for Tips in the channels name, I found both GN and Jays videos far better more realistic in terms of what you can expect from the card along with more informative. I among many I'm sure would rather a informative video that feels boring for 15 minutes or a 30 minute video that you can skip to parts you care about over a 10-15 minute garbage fest. After all people are investing hundreds of dollars into a GPU (potentially more for SAM and a new CPU) a content creator shouldn't take such things lightly for their viewers and should do as good of a job as possible, which this video has not.

Well said, 100% agreement. LTT is becoming more and more, "and speaking about... xx, Now you can get dbrand case for your iPhone XS! With my beautiful face on it!"

[LordVetinari]

10 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

I'm leaning LTT is becoming more Linus (for his own) Entertainment (this is also reinforced with the recent TechLinked ep), meaning no longer worthy for Tips in the channels name, I found both GN and Jays videos far better more realistic in terms of what you can expect from the card along with more informative. I among many I'm sure would rather a informative video that feels boring for 15 minutes or a 30 minute video that you can skip to parts you care about over a 10-15 minute garbage fest. After all people are investing hundreds of dollars into a GPU (potentially more for SAM and a new CPU) a content creator shouldn't take such things lightly for their viewers and should do as good of a job as possible, which this video has not.

I have a set order I watch review videos in for tech I might buy: 

 

1) LTT - check first for the overview and headline points, fun and entertaining - can listen in the car (I do enjoy the WAN show)

2) Jays/Pauls - Second slightly deeper dive and slightly more measured approach - watch on the couch with a cup of coffee. 

3) GN - all the graphs and data - will I actually buy this? Lettme grab a pen and take notes... 

 

They all have their place. 

[DoctorNick]

7 minutes ago, LordVetinari said:

I have a set order I watch review videos in for tech I might buy: 

 

1) LTT - check first for the overview and headline points, fun and entertaining - can listen in the car (I do enjoy the WAN show)

2) Jays/Pauls - Second slightly deeper dive and slightly more measured approach - watch on the couch with a cup of coffee. 

3) GN - all the graphs and data - will I actually buy this? Lettme grab a pen and take notes... 

 

They all have their place. 

The issue is. If Linus makes videos with false information, more people will follow that.. And this review is no exception.

 

Edit: Watched again.. Forget what I said.. I might have consumed shrooms this morning via fruit.. Must have mixed 4k and 1440p results or something.

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, LordVetinari said:

I have a set order I watch review videos in for tech I might buy: 

 

1) LTT - check first for the overview and headline points, fun and entertaining - can listen in the car (I do enjoy the WAN show)

2) Jays/Pauls - Second slightly deeper dive and slightly more measured approach - watch on the couch with a cup of coffee. 

3) GN - all the graphs and data - will I actually buy this? Lettme grab a pen and take notes... 

 

They all have their place. 

True, however you won't miss anything if you completely skip step one (I stopped watching the WAN for that reason), and that is very bad for LTT because who says one day that won't happen? LTT is big,really big while I doubt the company would fail if their youtube channel dies, but wait, it will because they heavily rely on sponsor spots so if no one watches no one will want to sponsor them.

 

Bigger they are harder they fall. If LTT fails it will fail spectacularly, and the chance of recovery once that starts is incredibly small for a large company a few changes now will prevent that.

[terminalinfinity]

1 hour ago, Egg-Roll said:

I'm leaning LTT is becoming more Linus (for his own) Entertainment (this is also reinforced with the recent TechLinked ep), meaning no longer worthy for Tips in the channels name, I found both GN and Jays videos far better more realistic in terms of what you can expect from the card along with more informative. I among many I'm sure would rather a informative video that feels boring for 15 minutes or a 30 minute video that you can skip to parts you care about over a 10-15 minute garbage fest. After all people are investing hundreds of dollars into a GPU (potentially more for SAM and a new CPU) a content creator shouldn't take such things lightly for their viewers and should do as good of a job as possible, which this video has not.

Yeah I have to say I found those videos + hardware unboxed much more informative than this hastily thrown together video that has a lot of bad takes IMO.

 

Its really a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type video.  They want to be the first to cover all the cards so badly they end up covering none of them well.  I felt the same way with the Ryzen 5000 launch where they crammed all the CPUs into one video and ended up not really giving much useable advice for people looking at a specific CPU.

 

This graph is so much more usable and well presented (Hardware unboxed) and IMO paints quite a different picture than the conclusions drawn in the LTT video, which sampled what, 5 games?

 

 

The main channel has gone from informational to infotainment is now treading on the lines of being entertainment without the info.

[Parideboy]

30 minutes ago, terminalinfinity said:

Yeah I have to say I found those videos + hardware unboxed much more informative than this hastily thrown together video that has a lot of bad takes IMO.

 

Its really a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type video.  They want to be the first to cover all the cards so badly they end up covering none of them well.  I felt the same way with the Ryzen 5000 launch where they crammed all the CPUs into one video and ended up not really giving much useable advice for people looking at a specific CPU.

 

This graph is so much more usable and well presented (Hardware unboxed) and IMO paints quite a different picture than the conclusions drawn in the LTT video, which sampled what, 5 games?

 

 

The main channel has gone from informational to infotainment is now treading on the lines of being entertainment without the info.

From this chart the 6800 doesn't look too shabby, might even catch the 3080 with some oc...

[Egg-Roll]

1 hour ago, Parideboy said:

From this chart the 6800 doesn't look too shabby, might even catch the 3080 with some oc...

It might (will have to wait and see if GN releases a video with it OC'd), however if you are willing to OC might as well get the XT or 3080 itself since OC they can equal or even possibly surpass the 3090, the XT surpasses the 3080 OC'd in a few titles based on GNs video above. I would only get the 6800 if it is found out you can flash the XT firmware on it like you could with the 5700 last year or if on a tight budget and get justify the $70 more for the XT. However while that chart shows a great deal of information, it might not even apply to you personally.

[ewitte]

17 hours ago, papajo said:

DLSS is utterly overrated... 

 

That entirely depends on the title.  I believe it was minecraft RTX but the #s from Gamers nexus stood out.  AMD was getting 27fps vs about 35fps on Nvidia however it was 71fps with DLSS enabled and in that title the visual difference was indiscernible.   Yes I agree it would be nice if it was implemented more and AMD hasn't released their solution yet.

[bit]

2 hours ago, terminalinfinity said:

Yeah I have to say I found those videos + hardware unboxed much more informative than this hastily thrown together video that has a lot of bad takes IMO.

 

Its really a "Jack of all trades, master of none" type video.  They want to be the first to cover all the cards so badly they end up covering none of them well.  I felt the same way with the Ryzen 5000 launch where they crammed all the CPUs into one video and ended up not really giving much useable advice for people looking at a specific CPU.

 

This graph is so much more usable and well presented (Hardware unboxed) and IMO paints quite a different picture than the conclusions drawn in the LTT video, which sampled what, 5 games?

 

 

The main channel has gone from informational to infotainment is now treading on the lines of being entertainment without the info.

did i watch a different video from everyone else? cus this is exactly what i got from the ltt video. with the caveat at the end that if things like rt performance, dlss and things like nvenc are more important to you then to stick with nvidia. 

 

 

also rip to u guys but the graph wasn't difficult imo since i just read the labels. you know you guys can pause right?

[Phoned_]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:02 AM, GravityHurts said:

I'm excited to see how nvidia responds.

RTX 459389584398943759745974 

[GDRRiley]

7 hours ago, Keith_MM said:

How did you manage to criticise my post with the exact same argument I used?

 

AM5 and zen 4 meaning DDR5 is likely to be expensive IS THE REASON  for not wasting money now getting zen3 , and an amd mobo and tieing money up in a solution with no upgrade path. For current am4 /zen users nobody can fault getting a zen 3 now and making the most of their systems which will then last into a stage where zen4+ /am5 chips/mobos/ddr5 ram have dropped in price  giving them a cheaper upgrade path.

 

The cost of new mobo,chip and ddr5 ram will hopefully reduce demand to a stage where people may actually have a chance at buying them.

 

Similarly with the GPUs , you shouldnt just be factoring in the cost of 3080/6000 series cards  most people are going to need a new PSU in order to run them . If you are spending at least 700 on a GPU and another 100+ on a PSU to run it , why tie that much money up with a 6000 series card that is crippled in raytracing and therefore future games which will hurt resale values when you come to upgrade to the next gen.

 

You say zen3 is going to be around for 12-24 months . great  ..3-4 months of that will probably spent waiting for chips to become available to actually buy , so we're talking about saving a crap ton of money on a dead end platform which could just be saved and put to use on the next generation hardware and putting together a rig in 12 months time that would have 5-7  usable years life  and could be upgraded piecemeal during that time.

 

Of course you don't have to . However the same argument applies, the  GPUs now are not a cheap investment and i think buyers remorse is going to dwarf fear of missing out on the 6000 series. The crippled raytracing is hardware and maybe they can improve it slightly over time with drivers and dlss type software but its still there. 
 

The underlying performance of the cards from both companies is going to fuel development  and new releases over the coming year(s) so why commit a large sum of money now when you can save that money to spend in 12 months time on better hardware at similar(competition may even mean lower)  prices and where a lot of driver/add on issues will have been ironed out . 

 

For me , I think its better to save my money and put it towards a new rig on AM5 rather than piecemeal upgrades  on mobo/zen3 and or GPUs  at this point in time.

 

For me its a rational decision where the head is overruling the heart.

 

I'm saying given the 1.5-2x ram prices waiting for zen4 is silly.

its going to be zen5 before DDR5 drops in price. the early capacity always goes to servers

 

AMDs shipping 1 million this year. Supply is growing, Q1 should be easier to get them.

 

Why are you talking about upgrading after 1 gen

if you are buying a 700$ GPU you've long forgotten about getting a good value. 1 step down cards use to be 350-400$ now its 500-600$

 

zen3 is going to have plenty of performance for longer term build.

 

raytracing isn't crippled. Every game does it different and about 1/2 the ones out right now use RT designed with NVIDIA

 

piecemeal is a way better way to go. I bought a new CPU+motherbaord+ram this year. a 2700x, B450, 32gb. I'm still running an RX580.
the only reason I'm considering a new CPU is because I got a cheap B550 board and if the 3900x goes on fire sale why not.