Apple is Preparing its Own Search Engine

[Moonzy]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

Siri doesn’t have a rep any better than Alexa. I would call that a bad marketing choice.

digital assistant isnt a norm from where im at, because they couldnt understand 2-3 languages at once, which is how we speak on a day to day basis

 

so they're all equally terrible to me

[Bombastinator]

4 minutes ago, Moonzy said:

digital assistant isnt a norm from where im at, because they couldnt understand 2-3 languages at once, which is how we speak on a day to day basis

 

so they're all equally terrible to me

They’re terrible if you speak only one too.  Audio assistants are what people buy for their extremely old grandparents because they can’t type or read a screen any more and often need help with extremely basic things.

[divito]

6 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I thought the same until I used DuckDuckGo and realized how shitty Google is now. The results on Google are all filtered, promoted, ads, and paid. You'll search for something and 4 ads are shown and the top result is paid to be there, unlike DDG where it actually gets the results from a proper index. The same goes for Google images. It's terrible now with the scaling and not allowing you to save the full res image without manually going to the website. I dropped Google 5 years ago and it is amazing how bad it is

It must have been a long time ago, but DDG was abysmal the last time I tried it.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

A similar thing happened to Microsoft. Microsoft in the 90's told computer manufacturers that they had to pay a Windows license fee regardless of which OS the computer used. If Dell sold 1000 computers with Windows and 500 with GNU/Linux then Microsoft demanded licensing fees for 1500 computers. If Dell said no then Microsoft would stop supplying Dell with Windows licenses.

 

At that point in time however, 100% of PC's shipped with Windows on it, even servers. Keep in mind that Microsoft Windows NT has been around since 1993, and absolutely nobody was on the internet outside of a university and DARPA until 1996 when Windows 95OSR2 included the tools needed to connect to ISP's without paying for additional software like Trumpet Winsock (for Win3.1.) If you were on the internet before 1996 you would also know what I'm talking about as the "web" didn't exist until 1993 (NSCA Mosaic, 1994 Netscape.) And unless you were a university, all the other protocols didn't really work outside of their text mode interfaces. Telnet and FTP (which both predate TCP/IP) were the only two things that worked before HTTP became a thing.

 

If Microsoft didn't include internet access, MSIE, and so forth with Win95OSR2 (OEM version) 98, 98SE and ME, the vast majority of computer users would not be on the internet in any shape. That's the sole, single, reason MSIE had any dominance. You wouldn't even be able to download an alternative browser in 1998 without MSIE being present unless you knew the FTP address for Netscape.

 

Google (the search engine) only started to royally upend "web search" beginning in 1998, and kinda rightfully became that "internet home page" that Yahoo wanted to be. If you recall what search was like between 1993 and 1999, Lycos, Altavista, Excite, Yahoo, were all complete and utter garbage, relying on the website to set keywords (and ironically Google has moved back to this with JSON-LD), and in 1998, pre-google the most effective search was Altavista. Lycos couldn't find a needle in a stack of needles, and Excite was so worthless that I can't even recall using it for anything in English.

 

So Google has had a near monopoly on "web search" be it the default in google chrome, firefox, safari, or the backend process of other fake search engines. If Apple wants a go at being the default for Safari, it can pretty much do so unimpeded, though it won't be particuarly useful unless it's a search engine that can be used without Safari and without Apple hardware. No point sending someone a search query in applesearch and having the receiver have to run the same query on google, duckduckgo, bing, or yandex (Yandex is the Russian google) and get different results.

 

[Bombastinator]

14 minutes ago, divito said:

It must have been a long time ago, but DDG was abysmal the last time I tried it.

I’ve been using it exclusively lately. It can be quite slow, but in general the actual search is as good or better. I don’t know if DDG got better or google got worse or both.  It may be a situation where it simply isn’t attacked as hard as google is. 

[divito]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

and in 1998, pre-google the most effective search was Altavista. Lycos couldn't find a needle in a stack of needles, and Excite was so worthless that I can't even recall using it for anything in English.

True story, was my favorite. RIP.

 

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I’ve been using it exclusively lately. It can be quite slow, but in general the actual search is as good or better. I don’t know if DDG got better or google got worse or both.  It may be a situation where it simply isn’t attacked as hard as google is. 

Perhaps I'll give it another go.

[AldiPrayogi]

Most searched term on iSearch:

 

"How to set Google as default search engine"

[HenrySalayne]

8 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

People are overestimating how hard it is to do a search engine.

Apple is trying to remove competitors from their platform. It's the same with advertisements.   

And it was the same with Apple Maps. It was abysmal at first. Even the Icon suggested to take a left turn on an overpass.

I don't want to know how many people use bad seach engines like f*****g Bing just because it's the default on Windows. Look at all the people still using Internet Explorer Edge or Cortana.

I don't think the Apple search will be good from the get-go, but it will still be used. And there is another opportunity for Apple to earn money with personalized advertisements.

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The Google case was a bit more complicated than that.

Google were sued because they told OEMs that if they didn't make Google the default search engine and put it on the home screen, Google would block the play store from working on those devices. That is illegal for the same reasons Intel can't just tell HP and Dell "you are no longer allowed to sell AMD products. If you don't stop selling AMD chips then we won't supply you with our chips". It's essentially extortion.

 

 

As soon as you start actively harming competitors you are running the risk of breaking the law.

"We want to be the default but anyone is free to join the party" is fine.

"We are the default and if anyone tries to do anything else we will crush you" is not fine.

 

 

A similar thing happened to Microsoft. Microsoft in the 90's told computer manufacturers that they had to pay a Windows license fee regardless of which OS the computer used. If Dell sold 1000 computers with Windows and 500 with GNU/Linux then Microsoft demanded licensing fees for 1500 computers. If Dell said no then Microsoft would stop supplying Dell with Windows licenses.

I missed that, makes sense and I agree that is really bad.

More competition is good, but this is also Apple trying to remove any competition and monopolizing their own platform.

[Bombastinator]

16 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Apple is trying to remove competitors from their platform. It's the same with advertisements.   

And it was the same with Apple Maps. It was abysmal at first. Even the Icon suggested to take a left turn on an overpass.

I don't want to know how many people use bad seach engines like f*****g Bing just because it's the default on Windows. Look at all the people still using Internet Explorer Edge or Cortana.

I don't think the Apple search will be good from the get-go, but it will still be used. And there is another opportunity for Apple to earn money with personalized advertisements.

-deleted- 

reply changed so post no longer relevant 

[Doobeedoo]

Imagine it being worse than Bing is. 

[yian88]

Next they will ban any search engine or web browser other than apple, they just keep going with their monopoly tactics, the device you buy is not your its mostly apples, its like you only have a license to use it the way apple says... fuck em.

[Bombastinator]

Just now, yian88 said:

Next they will ban any search engine or web browser other than apple, they just keep going with their monopoly tactics, the device you buy is not your its mostly apples, its like you only have a license to use it the way apple says... fuck em.

Assumptive of future behavior.  I don’t use safari on my iPhone if given a choice.  I find it inconsistently reliable. They do have some annoying defaults that require copy/paste of links to get a link to not automatically go to safari which too often means the link doesn’t work.  This seems to be largely a google tools thing.  Use of google tools by a creator often meany there is a subtle breakage which makes safari not work. I find I can often make a site work that fails subtly in safari though by opening it in a different browser.  It happens often enough I find safari to be effectively crippled as a browser.

[GoodBytes]

I can't wait for iSearch!

 

I am tired of my search results being filled with Apple competitive products and criticism.

I heard that Apple will charge websites 99$ per year to have their website added, and any user that clicks on a site found by iSearch and purchases something, Apple will charge a 30% of purchase to the website.

[Video Beagle]

I doubt Apple will build a search engine...maybe buy one like DuckDuckGo, but unless someone there has just come up with some revolutionary new search algorythm, I don't see it.

[Guest]

On 8/29/2020 at 2:47 AM, Blademaster91 said:

And it would probably be about as useless as Apple maps.

Apple maps is pretty good now tbh, pretty much a clone of Google maps without biking directions. 

[RejZoR]

13 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Apple maps is pretty good now tbh, pretty much a clone of Google maps without biking directions. 

I've been using Apple Maps exclusively since they are integrated into DuckDuckGo when looking for locations and because I'm just avoiding everything Google. That is, when I'm not navigating with phone where I'm using HereWeGo maps. Them being totally offline and not requiring any data is the best way to go. I have my entire country on my phone and it has always navigated me perfectly to any location.

[Young Cash Register]

Apple won't stop until they take over the fucking world honestly. Doesn't help that they have an entire generation of people brainwashed to think they can only buy apple stuff.

[Senzelian]

Bing for rich kids. 

[Awesome84]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:54 AM, Bombastinator said:

I fail to see how selling default search engine rights to google and the possible ending of that agreement creates even a probability that Apple is making a search engine from scratch.  They are difficult to create, and there are several contenders. Does safari not have a search engine choice system?  I can’t seem to find one.

Safari does have a default search engine choice. You just have to go to the settings application to access it.

[spartaman64]

On 8/28/2020 at 4:47 PM, gabrielcarvfer said:

People are overestimating how hard it is to do a search engine.

 

Let me tell you something: it is only hard if you don't actually know what the devil people are searching for and where they go to find that content.

 

Surprise, surprise: they already have a browser, your browsing history, typing predictors, can scan the contents of whatever content you access.

its not hard to make a search engine that performs well for 90% of searches when people know exactly what they are looking for but sometimes people want to find something when they dont remember much from that thing. like i regularly remember 1 line from a song and try to find that song by searching that one line. lets test that with the ending song of evangelion

google passes with flying colors every search result is about it

after some random stuff bing does manage to find a lyrics website for the song but not the song itself. and the rest of the searches are about random stuff. i think i tested this before on bing and they didnt have any results about it so apparently microsoft improved it so good job

duckduckgo never found it i looked though all the results

 

and before you say its because google looked at my search history i did this on a new work computer and you can also test it yourself

 

 

[George Vella]

On 8/29/2020 at 12:04 AM, HenrySalayne said:

I don't want to know how many people use bad seach engines like f*****g Bing just because it's the default on Windows. Look at all the people still using Internet Explorer Edge or Cortana.

About Edge I dont agree, the new Edge has been proving itself to be on par, if not better than Google Chrome

 

[spartaman64]

5 minutes ago, George Vella said:

About Edge I dont agree, the new Edge has been proving itself to be on par, if not better than Google Chrome

 

it is chrome basically

[George Vella]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

it is chrome basically

 

Yeah, but as you can see here, Microsoft stripped a lot of services: 

 

 

Also, it feels native to windows (obviously) and the way it works is imo way better than chrome. The best killer feature for most people is IE 11 mode which was a godsend for me

[LAwLz]

24 minutes ago, George Vella said:

Yeah, but as you can see here, Microsoft stripped a lot of services: 

 

 

Also, it feels native to windows (obviously) and the way it works is imo way better than chrome. The best killer feature for most people is IE 11 mode which was a godsend for me

Also worth mentioning that a lot (most?) of the services Microsoft removed from Chrome were quickly replaced with Microsoft's own version.

Google's Spellchecking? Ripped out and replaced with Microsoft's spell checking.

Google's extension store? Ripped out and replaced with Microsoft's store.

Syncing to Google account? Ripped out and replaced with syncing to your Microsoft account.

 

So it's not like "Microsoft removed a bunch of stuff to make it less bloated". It's just that Microsoft replaced all Google's data harvesting features with their own.

 

 

 

I've started using Edge as my main browser but it's not because I think it's better than Chrome. I use it because it's already preinstalled and since it's basically Chrome, why have two browsers that are the same on my computer?