COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Kilrah]

The government needs to help there, would be more useful than spending billions for masks.

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

The government needs to help there, would be more useful than spending billions for masks.

You realize that the government doesnt have unlimited funds right? Hell we pay for the government. 

 

And if you think ppe that can result in saving lives isnt worth the money then why are you arguing against opening up the economy?

 

Not sure why you would think buying masks during a pandemic is in any way a waste of money.

[atxcyclist]

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The government needs to help there, would be more useful than spending billions for masks.

Overseeing/organizing the production of PPE so that people can eventually start going back to work and our economy doesn't completely tank, is the best thing they could do right now.

[Guest]

What coronavirus means for the global economy | Ray Dalio    TED

 

 

[Kilrah]

13 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Not sure why you would think buying masks during a pandemic is in any way a waste of money.

Again keeping people properly isolated for 2 weeks causes the virus to die out and doesn't need PPE. 

Providing PPE for everyone so they can continue to go out will only prolong the problem, and require always more PPE which is money that literally goes to the trash rather than help run the economy.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Not sure why you would think buying masks during a pandemic is in any way a waste of money.

Because it is not helping US economy right now... It is helping mainly China's economy! Or India's.

 

What you need are new ways of thinking, creativity. Not the "good ol' ways o' doing"!

[PhantomJaguarr]

3 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Again keeping people properly isolated for 2 weeks causes the virus to die out and doesn't need PPE. 

Providing PPE for everyone so they can continue to go out will only prolong the problem, and require always more PPE which is money that literally goes to the trash rather than help run the economy.

But new spikes could happen? I'm sure my governor wouldn't spend nearly a billion dollars for masks without proper insight.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/briefing/new-cases-in-asia-boris-johnson-and-chinas-hesitation-on-stimulus.html

Quote

Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan are confronting new waves of coronavirus cases, largely fueled by infected people who recently arrived from other countries, according to data compiled by The Times’s graphics team.

Singapore is also seeing a rise in community cases, with more than 400 in the past week linked to migrant worker dormitories.

None of these places had a single day with more than 10 new cases until March, but that changed in the past two weeks.

Students or expatriates returning from Europe or the U.S. account for a large share of the imported cases.

 

[atxcyclist]

3 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Because it is not helping US economy right now... It is helping mainly China's economy! Or India's.

 

What you need are new ways of thinking, creativity. Not the "good ol' ways o' doing"!

Producing PPE for an eventual reintroduction of the workforce could get domestic manufacturing facilities products they could sell, that helps the economy. Better still, having more people able to work safely helps the economy.

[Guest]

On Creativity, new ideas, new ways for fighting this pandemic

 

 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Producing PPE for an eventual reintroduction of the workforce could get domestic manufacturing facilities products they could sell, that helps the economy. Better still, having more people able to work safely helps the economy.

I do agree ^o^

 

14 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Because it is not helping US economy right now...

Where I live a custom seamstress transformed her whole production line for producing PPE for the hospitals.

She gets the "fabric" directly from Dupont, the State helped her financially to transform her line of production, she got the special sewing machines from schools (which are closed at the moment) and got her work force taught on the new techniques and the safe hygienic rules for producing them.

 

I never said it shouldn't be done locally. Just that right now it wasn't, so instead of spending hundreds of millions for a several months deal, help the business transform to answer the need locally.

[RonnieOP]

9 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Because it is not helping US economy right now... It is helping mainly China's economy! Or India's.

 

What you need are new ways of thinking, creativity. Not the "good ol' ways o' doing"!

The buying of masks for doctors to use has nothing to do with the economy....its about protected doctors at hospitals that are treating people.

 

Are you really going to argue for isolation to keep people healthy but then argue against provided ppe to doctors to keep them healthy? And that makes sense to you?

 

They arent buying masks to hand out to people on the street. Its for hospitals who are treating people in medical need.

 

Would you rather the people capable of saving lives be sick and not working?

 

We have no choice but to buy them from wherever we can. Yes US companies are working on ways to manufacture them but that takes time. Its not like doctors can just stop treating people whole they wait for us made masks.

 

 

[Bombastinator]

10 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

The buying of masks for doctors to use has nothing to do with the economy....its about protected doctors at hospitals that are treating people.

 

Are you really going to argue for isolation to keep people healthy but then argue against provided ppe to doctors to keep them healthy? And that makes sense to you?

 

They arent buying masks to hand out to people on the street. Its for hospitals who are treating people in medical need.

 

Would you rather the people capable of saving lives be sick and not working?

 

We have no choice but to buy them from wherever we can. Yes US companies are working on ways to manufacture them but that takes time. Its not like doctors can just stop treating people whole they wait for us made masks.

 

 

Heh.  “Are you really going to argue?”  The standard fake rhetorical question.  Pretending that was the argument made.  It wasn’t in the first place.

[Kilrah]

13 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

its about protected doctors at hospitals that are treating people.

The article did not say this was only for health workers, but suggests it's for the greater population.

 

  

13 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

We have no choice but to buy them from wherever we can. Yes US companies are working on ways to manufacture them but that takes time.

You always say things take time, open your eyes and see that some countries and companies have put such programs in place in a week. When there is a will there is a way. Obviously if we take you as an example there is no will, only an attempt at resisting any effort and avoid changing anything.

 

As the above linked TED interview suggests... it kinda makes no sense thinking of what will happen based on how things currently work because everything will likely be reshuffeled and started anew. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Heh.  “Are you really going to argue?”  The standard fake rhetorical question.  Pretending that was that argument made.  It wasn’t in the first place.

Even more so as I've already answered before he even asked and that very point was already adressed ^o^

12 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

I never said it shouldn't be done locally. Just that right now it wasn't, so instead of spending hundreds of millions for a several months deal, help the business transform to answer the need locally.

 

But it is a very generous gesture for California to do, no way to argue that point ^o^

[RonnieOP]

20 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Heh.  “Are you really going to argue?”  The standard fake rhetorical question.  Pretending that was the argument made.  It wasn’t in the first place.

So whats the argument against spending billions on ppe for doctors?

 

The post he quoted was a person claiming the government shouldnt be spending billions on masks.

 

Im not pretending anything. You can clearly read the person said "would be better then spennding billions on masks"

 

And they replied "because it doesnt help the us economy". As if that was a factor in making sure we had ppe. 

[RonnieOP]

19 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The article did not say this was only for health workers, but suggests it's for the greater population.

 

  

You always say things take time, open your eyes and see that some countries and companies have put such programs in place in a week. When there is a will there is a way. Obviously if we take you as an example there is no will, only an attempt at resisting any effort and avoid changing anything.

 

As the above linked TED interview suggests... it kinda makes no sense thinking of what will happen based on how things currently work because everything will likely be reshuffeled and started anew. 

Things do take time. Are you under the impression that manufacturing happens in a day?  That if a company wanted to go from making car parts to n95 masks they could just make a quick phone call and all of a sudden they would have the supplies to start pushing them out that day?

 

Doctors need those masks every single day. Its not a good idea for them to go a single day without 

 

Plenty of nations have started ppe manufacturing. Which is great. But while that is in the works they still need the ppe. And also demand is high for ppe. So high that they could still be forced to buy ope elsewhere.

 

If it was as easy as you make it seem then no nation would be buying masks at all. But its not that easy.

[Blademaster91]

The arguments was definitely there, doctors need PPE regardless, worry about the economic cost later. Although some companies in the US have added production lines or have switched to making PPE, I'd like to see at least some of it be more than just temporary manufacturing so the US isn't so reliant on getting supplies from China.

[RonnieOP]

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The arguments was definitely there, doctors need PPE regardless, worry about the economic cost later. Although some companies in the US have added production lines or have switched to making PPE, I'd like to see at least some of it be more than just temporary manufacturing so the US isn't so reliant on getting supplies from China.

I think that should be the plan moving forward for most nations.

[v3rtico]

[WkdPaul]

Great, a private senior residence wasn't cooperating with public health officials, to the point where they (public health officials) had to get a court order against the residence owners, only to find seniors left to themselves and a total of 31 dead.

 

A police investigation was opened and all privately owned residence in the province will be inspected.

 

The government took over that residence and supplied workers and equipment.

 

 

Families were left in the dark for a week because of privacy laws. The whole thing is a mess and disgusting, but IMO criminal charges should be brought up against management and the owners.

 

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/covid-19-premier-legault-confirms-31-dead-at-dorval-care-residence/wcm/02ce114f-856c-4851-b0eb-0a93e936511c/amp/

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by wkdpaul

[RonnieOP]

23 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Great, a private senior residence wasn't cooperating with public health officials, to the point where they (public health officials) had to get a court order against the residence owners, only to find seniors left to themselves and a total of 31 dead.

 

A police investigation was opened and all privately owned residence in the province will be inspected.

 

The government took oven that residence and supplied workers and equipment.

 

 

Families were left in the dark for a week because of privacy laws. The whole thing is a mess and disgusting, but IMO criminal charges should be brought up against management and the owners.

 

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/covid-19-premier-legault-confirms-31-dead-at-dorval-care-residence/wcm/02ce114f-856c-4851-b0eb-0a93e936511c/amp/

 

Jesus christ.....

 

Ive heard nursing home horror stories before but this one might take the cake.

 

I hope they investigate the hell out of them and charge them with everything possible. Investigate things from before this as well because i doubt people capable of doing that were the best people before this pandemic.

[SpikeSpiegel]

 

[PhantomJaguarr]

After reading what was on the page of this thread I needed an uplifting story.

 

Quote

Woman temporarily donates RV to ER doctor.

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

11 hours ago, Bartholomew said:

Not sure if this was shared already (note: text is in dutch) https://www.radboudumc.nl/nieuws/2020/onderzoekers-radboudumc-publiceren-nieuwe-inzichten-covid19

 

In short, a new mechanism in how the sickness develops is identyfied. In simple terms it *may* mean that better treatment could be possible soon. This plays around the stage between hospitalisation and need to move to the ICU/ventilatir due to cascading issues.

 

From what i get from it the new treatment could significantly reduce the generation of fluids by damaged vessels causing the lungs to fill up. The research is still fresh but has been shared internationally and trails have begun, of which first results seem "promising".

 

This wouldnt be a "cure" but could improve survivability significantly and very importantly reduce the number of cases needing ICU/ventilators.

 

Lets hope this turns out to be something usable, and thumbs up to the scientists involved.

Had a good laugh with the translation software, making me wonder what former NFL Quarterback Brady Quinn had to do with anything. "bradyknin" is the English term.

 

The virus has to be treated in the stage its found out.  This could provide a good mid-stage after someone is going to the ICU. This could also lead to an explanation of the age-related effect. We'll have to see.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 4/10/2020 at 10:29 AM, Theminecraftaddict555 said:

I've been hearing about this 99% of corona deaths in Italy not actually being linked to corona itself but to some other illnesses that the victims already had. Can anybody confirm this at all? 

 

Edit: Found the study but its not in english whatsoever (now allowed to translate it in english for some reason) https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Report-COVID-2019_17_marzo-v2.pdf

What you linked is a bunch of stas (in Italian) on a sample of 2003 deceased people with Covid-19. It breaks down the sample along a number of dimensions (men and woman, other medical conditions, age, location, etc).

It makes no claims whatsoever. That includes making no claims about "improperly accounting" deaths, and of course, even less that being 99%.

Wherever you read that from, if the supposed source was that link, then they were basically bullshitting. 

 

 

 

14 hours ago, OriAr said:

While things are massively different from back then, some metrics are just downright scary economically. In Israel the unemployment rate has been 25% (!) since the lockdown started, do you think this is sustainable for more than a few weeks?

LOL, look at Europe  

14 hours ago, OriAr said:

Sure, the government can keep spending and mitigate the impact for a while, but eventually even the governments can run out of money, and once that happens things get very ugly very fast.

And if a world wide 2nd great depression hits, a global war is certainly a possible consequence of it, and that would kill way more people then COVID-19 might.

 

I made a commitment some time ago no to enter discussions on economics here, after asking myself if I'd expect to see an Intel engineer debating CPU architectures in an anonymous forum for economics' enthusiasts (and why that would be). Hence, I won't address the sequence of posts of the last few pages, but I will just suggest to check where you are sourcing these projections and catastrophic messages. The consensus in the profession is that the public health measures adopted will have an economic impact that needs to be countered, and can be countered, through an appropriate economic policy. Stupid implementations will lead to stupid results, of course, but it is possible to dampen the impact of the preventive measures. That is so because this recession is unlike any other in nature (in a positive way), which also explains why it requires unusual policies too. Overall, there will be a non-negligible effect, but that's not something that can't be managed given the time interval for the expected duration of the most severe restrictive measures. And that's accounting for potential new instances of partial lockdowns in the future as new outbreaks take place before a vaccine is ready.

Now, and this is important, whether or not it is true, or any of us agrees with it, that is the current consensus among actual experts. Therefore, it is worth asking yourself where are you getting these other messages from and how much trust you should place on them if not an expert yourself.