COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

[Kilrah]

The reason we're not flooded by cases and seeing thousands of deaths is precisely that drastic measures have been taken to prevent the spread and slow it down - so it definitely should not be thought that "oh it's OK, we can relase everyone becasue the hospitals aren't overloaded"...

 

But that's the common thing with people, if measures work as intended and there is no chaos they'll completely overlook the reasons why there isn't and start saying "see, it wasn't that bad, we didn't need all this crap/don't need it anymore"...

[GOTSpectrum]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

-snip-

 

That video was really helpful, I understand growth patterns thanks to statistics at college, but I will be sending it to a few other people I know who just dont get it. 

 

There is no point protecting an economy if everyone on earth gets the thing and we have death rate of even just the current 20% we are seeing acording to world-o-meter when talking about closed cases. If there are much fewer people, the economy would just go to shit anyway 

 

 

EDIT: Disclaimer, the global death rate is not actually 21% as show, my intention was to point out a worst-case but didn't clarify that. Due to the way that infections spread the vast majority are either unfortunately dying quickly due to under lying health complications(hence leading to the perceived high death rate) or are currently on the path to recovery.

[WkdPaul]

5 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

That video was really helpful, I understand growth patterns thanks to statistics at college, but I will be sending it to a few other people I know who just dont get it. 

Yup, I also understand this type of growth, but not that many people do ,and as the video states, we're not built to understand / rationalize this type of growth.

 

Also, the infection has a "delay" (incubation period), so it could look like everything will be ok after the lock down will be lifted, but we could be blindsided by that incubation period.

Edited April 11, 2020 by wkdpaul

[OriAr]

Just now, GOTSpectrum said:

snip

Ehhhh, the death rate from COVID-19 is nowhere near 20%. high chance it's not even 2% (Estimations are talking about 0.5%, might be as low as 0.1%).

Plagues with 20% death rate look completely different, and if COVID-19 had 20% death rate it'd have looked completely different.

 

While getting back to normal won't be tomorrow, we need to think how we get out of this lockdown, because the situation as it is now is completely and utterly socially and economically unsustainable, and if you keep people locked down for too long then there will be massive social unrest and all hell could easily break loose.

[GOTSpectrum]

Just now, wkdpaul said:

Yup, I also understand this type of growth, but not that many people do ,and as the video states, we're not built to understand / rationalize this type of growth.

 

Also, the infection has a "delay" (incubation period), so it could look like everything will be ok but we could be blindsided by that incubation period.

I feel like it is the incubation period that throws people off in this situation. We do lockdown and they don't see any change so think there's no point, then, flout the rules, leading to the lockdown not having as big as an impact that then leads to other people not following the lockdown. 

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, OriAr said:

Ehhhh, the death rate from COVID-19 is nowhere near 20%. high chance it's not even 2% (Estimations are talking about 0.5%, might be as low as 0.1%).

Plagues with 20% death rate look completely different, and if COVID-19 had 20% death rate it'd have looked completely different.

 

While getting back to normal won't be tomorrow, we need to think how we get out of this lockdown, because the situation as it is now is completely and utterly socially and economically unsustainable, and if you keep people locked down for too long then there will be massive social unrest and all hell could easily break loose.

I don't think it actually has a deathrate of anything close to 20%, I think that due to the recovery time being long, in these early stages it seems much higher than it is as many people are still recovering... that was a bad reference to use I will admit that!

 

[RonnieOP]

51 minutes ago, OriAr said:

It's definitely interlinked, the more time passes the more we know about it, the more we can finetune our response to it, the more we can scale up things to the needed amount, and then we can start lift the restrictions slowly and eventually comeback to normal by the fall.

There are probably gonna be riots at some places if things don't start to get lifted by late next month, people in Israel are growing restless as it is and the very low death rate suggests it might be time to start the exit strategy.

I cant speak for other nations. But we are already seeing a huge uptick in crime in the states. I believe i read italy was having a lot of issues as well.

 

Once people start getting yo desperate its going to get bad. They have already locked down our mayors street/house due to blowback from how she has been handling things.

 

The longer we wait the worse it will get. And even as someone who is very very well stocked on personal protection items. Living in a stand your ground state. I do not want it to come to that. But we are not far from it at this rate.

[Taf the Ghost]

40 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

I understand that it looks like it's all going great, but remember that the spread is close to an exponential growth, that means, if it's not contained properly when the quarantine is lifted, the new infections could very quickly overrun the healthcare system.

 

I'm not saying this is what's going to happen, it's totally possible that everything is going to be fine when the quarantine is lifted, people are going to change (at least, I hope).

 

What I'm trying to say is, we should listen to specialist, the economy has already taken a huge hit, a few weeks more won't make a big difference (few weeks as in 3-4 weeks ... more than that could have larger impact). And if it looks like it wasn't as bad as we've been told, then it means the measures taken to protect the population worked (and that's what it's currently looking like, fatality rates are lower than expected BECAUSE of the quarantine, not because COVID-19 isn't dangerous).

 

 

Corridor made a video trying to show how the spread of the infection could get out of hand quickly ;

 

While a nicely produced video, after COVID-19, I've come to the conclusion I generally loathe the "I Love Math" crowd, especially the Statistical ones. Or maybe it's the trash-tier data presentation approaches that dominate Epidemiology. 

 

As for what's going to happen, things will be unwound more than ended. Concerts are probably non-existent for the next 4ish months. International Travel is dead for a while. Expect major cities to be in semi-lockdown for 4ish months, but most suburban or rural areas to be almost completely opened up. You'll get local lockdowns if there's an outbreak, but that's been a standard practice for at least a 100 years. We just haven't seen it much in the last few because we wiped out most of the childhood diseases. 

 

I'd expect Senior Centers and Retirement Communities to basically be on lockdown for a year. Minus the fact the ones that live there are the most likely to engage in activities that would spread it.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Our numbers are much lower then estimated when it comes to deaths. We might of already flattened the curve enough to not over run the hospitals. And we should keep this up for a bit longer.

 

Question: Why are there lower cases and deaths than what was projected? Where the projections wrong?

 

Answer: We have less cases than expected because physical distanciation works!

 

 

36 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Everyone is sympathetic to everyone who has died and who will die due to the virus.

I'm sure that will be very helpful to all those who died!
/s

40 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Shit situation. And it sounds cold. But basically the needs of the many outweigh the need of the few.

Nope! you don't know your Classics!    Cpt. James T. Kirk demonstrated that the need of the one outweighs the need of the many

/s

48 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

You cant keep telling people that have a small small chance of dying that they are going to lose their jobs, home, businesses, etc because they need to stay home.

Of course you can. You're addressing their higher intellect: Reason!

And usually it is said that "reason" is what separates us "humans" from "animals".

So, from your repeated inferences, I can only suppose that you are part of the other part of "homo sapiens", as there are the humans and the hoo-mans!

 

And, as you seem to follow closely and thoroughly the evolution of knowledge on this little "harmless" bug known as "SARS-COV-2", there was a first sign a few weeks ago in China, now we have other occurences in South Korea, but it seems that people who recovered from Covid-19 either can catch again very quickly or reactivate the virus, as more than 90 South-Korean tested positive again to Covid-19 after recovering from it...

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/11/world/south-korea-91-recovered-coronavirus-patients-tested-positive/

https://globalnews.ca/news/6805414/coronavirus-south-korea-reinfection-canada/

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-04-10/south-korea-says-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-again

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200410000686

 

We don't know YET how this virus works !

 

It is roaming freely in the US since mid-January, it needed the terrible episode in New York for some people to open their eyes, but still many states did and still do nothing as they feel "protected" - I'm sure the Holy Spirit extended its protective halo other them, exactly like the Tchernobyl radioactive cloud stopped at the french border in 1986. Somethings are just "magical"! - and now you start to see the cases in more rural areas burn their ways through the fields.

So... Sure! Hoo-Mans may not accept the necessity of physical distancing until we (the World) understand how this virus works (as we can't humanly and scientifically do that in 3-4 months) ; I am sure also that for many other hoo-mans either because they lack the education (which most of the time is not their fault) or because they are just plainly stupid or so self-centered on their little way of living that they just can't change their way of thinking (here again 2 very different problems).

Hey, stupid people can even get elected Governors...

 

You're talking of the "need of the many"...

 

As for your grand-parents, even your "elves" ones ( ) maybe you should ask them first if they are really so readily agree to sacrifice themselves before throwing them under the moving cars tyres... Because dying from Covid-19 is not a pretty thing!

[RonnieOP]

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/gov-greg-abbott-to-address-texas-response-to-covid-19-ahead-of-easter-weekend

 

Looks like Texas officials have already decided to start opening up next month.

[Taf the Ghost]

19 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I feel like it is the incubation period that throws people off in this situation. We do lockdown and they don't see any change so think there's no point, then, flout the rules, leading to the lockdown not having as big as an impact that then leads to other people not following the lockdown. 

The long incubation period is what screwed everyone. It already looks like the only way to have stopped the spread was close down all International Travel in probably late December, back when China was in full denial mode still. Once it got into the restrooms in the International Airports, it was game over for actually stopping its spread. 

 

Realistically, you have about 6 weeks for a lockdown to work, and even that's too much for a lot of people. After that, you pretty much just have to go into Ivan Drago mode (If he dies, he dies) and mitigate what you can. It's especially difficult with COVID19 because it's not much of a risk to the people being hurt most, economically, by this.

[WkdPaul]

36 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I don't think it actually has a deathrate of anything close to 20%, I think that due to the recovery time being long, in these early stages it seems much higher than it is as many people are still recovering... that was a bad reference to use I will admit that!

Actually, both the numbers you showed and @OriAr one's can be true depending on the interpretation of selective data. That's what is annoying currently, there's a LOT of data out there, and when taken out of context, you can make it whatever you want.

 

While some numbers show low fatality rate, it's often biased by the healthcare system not being overwhelmed or by lack of testings.

 

Reality is a lot more grey than 20% vs 0.1% CFR. It can be as high as 20% in the worst case (Italy) or 0.1% in the best case (Chinese provinces that were far from the epidemic and were on lockdown quickly, or where the healthcare system was ready and didn't get many cases in ICUs).

 

IMO "global fatality rates" shouldn't be used, because it's not taking any nuances into account (as I mentioned before, if a healthcare is overwhelmed, the fatality rate is going to be a lot higher than 0.1%), but it's kinda irresponsible to tell people the global fatality rate is close to 20% (IMO).

Edited April 11, 2020 by wkdpaul

[GOTSpectrum]

3 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Actually, both the numbers you showed and @OriAr one's can be true depending on the interpretation of selective data. That's what is annoying currently, there's a LOT of data out there, and when taken out of context, you can make it whatever you want.

 

While some numbers show low fatality rate, it's often biased by the healthcare system not being overwhelmed or by lack of testings.

 

Reality is a lot more grey than 20% vs 0.1% CFR. It can be as high as 20% in the worst case (Italy) or 0.1% in the best case (Chinese provinces that were far from the epidemic and were on lockdown quickly, or where the healthcare system was ready and didn't get many cases in ICUs).

 

IMO "global fatality rates" shouldn't be used, because it's not taking any nuances into account (as I mentioned before, if a healthcare is overwhelmed, the fatality rate is going to be a lot higher than 0.1%), but it's kinda irresponsible to tell people the global fatality rate is close to 20% (IMO).

I agree and should probably edit the post to explain as much, 

 

I wanted to use it as a possible worst case if we just didn't lockdown and left it to do its own thing. I'm not very good at all the explaining details part unfortunately.

[WkdPaul]

1 minute ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I agree and should probably edit the post to explain as much, 

 

I wanted to use it as a possible worst case if we just didn't lockdown and left it to do its own thing. I'm not very good at all the explaining details part unfortunately.

That last part was more a complaint about how the media and some organizations are portraying the numbers, it wasn't directed at you !!

 

If it's worth anything, I also think saying it only has a 0.1% fatality rate is as irresponsible (IMO), since those numbers often (if not always) aren't put into perspective.

[RonnieOP]

On 4/11/2020 at 6:15 PM, Cora_Lie said:

 

Spoiler

 

Question: Why are there lower cases and deaths than what was projected? Where the projections wrong?

 

Answer: We have less cases than expected because physical distanciation works!

 

 

I'm sure that will be very helpful to all those who died!
/s

Nope! you don't know your Classics!    Cpt. James T. Kirk demonstrated that the need of the one outweighs the need of the many

/s

Of course you can. You're addressing their higher intellect: Reason!

And usually it is said that "reason" is what separates us "humans" from "animals".

So, from your repeated inferences, I can only suppose that you are part of the other part of "homo sapiens", as there are the humans and the hoo-mans!

 

And, as you seem to follow closely and thoroughly the evolution of knowledge on this little "harmless" bug known as "SARS-COV-2", there was a first sign a few weeks ago in China, now we have other occurences in South Korea, but it seems that people who recovered from Covid-19 either can catch again very quickly or reactivate the virus, as more than 90 South-Korean tested positive again to Covid-19 after recovering from it...

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/11/world/south-korea-91-recovered-coronavirus-patients-tested-positive/

https://globalnews.ca/news/6805414/coronavirus-south-korea-reinfection-canada/

https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-04-10/south-korea-says-recovered-coronavirus-patients-test-positive-again

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200410000686

 

We don't know YET how this virus works !

 

It is roaming freely in the US since mid-January, it needed the terrible episode in New York for some people to open their eyes, but still many states did and still do nothing as they feel "protected" - I'm sure the Holy Spirit extended its protective halo other them, exactly like the Tchernobyl radioactive cloud stopped at the french border in 1986. Somethings are just "magical"! - and now you start to see the cases in more rural areas burn their ways through the fields.

So... Sure! Hoo-Mans may not accept the necessity of physical distancing until we (the World) understand how this virus works (as we can't humanly and scientifically do that in 3-4 months) ; I am sure also that for many other hoo-mans either because they lack the education (which most of the time is not their fault) or because they are just plainly stupid or so self-centered on their little way of living that they just can't change their way of thinking (here again 2 very different problems).

Hey, stupid people can even get elected Governors...

 

You're talking of the "need of the many"...

 

As for your grand-parents, even your "elves" ones ( ) maybe you should ask them first if they are really so readily agree to sacrifice themselves before throwing them under the moving cars tyres... Because dying from Covid-19 is not a pretty thing!

 

 

Well i do talk to my family. I wasnt being rhetorical when i said they would rather die then put their family through that. I know of alot of high risk older people that would say the same thing. What would you rather have happened to you die of corona or watch your grandkids homeless, cold, and starving?

 

Your whole thought process there is flawed and just insults people you dont agree with. For no reason at all.

 

You only see the virus as a means to kill thousands. Thats asinine and ignorant. A great depression will last years and kill more people then the virus. The same arguments you use against the people who disagree with you can easily be used word for word against you. "Who cares about the lives of everyone else. We need to beat this virus". 

 

Im not bashing you for caring about the people who are at high risk. We all do. But that doesnt mean that you can ignore the lives of everyone else. 

 

Again the vast majority of people will not die from the virus. Yes there are younger healthy people that have died. But the numbers are tiny. They pale in comparison to the younger healthy people that die everyday from car wrecks. But we arent telling everyone to stop driving and stay at home.

 

Only the rich will be ok during a depression. You think poor people who rely on welfare programs are going to be able to live when those programs are not being funded? Food banks are running dry right now. You think people are going to get medical treatment when the hospitals are not funded? Think their landlords are going to let them live for free while they fight for a job with tens of millions of other people? Is it ok to stay lockdown for 6 months and then next year see people starving and freezing to death on the streets?

 

It makes no sense not to take into consideration the outcomes of our actions. The solution cannot be worse then the problem. 

 

Its not rich people wanting to open back up to make more money. They are set. A recession will be a mild inconvenience to them. Its the poor and middle class who need it most. 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by LogicalDrm
Added spoiler

[GOTSpectrum]

1 minute ago, wkdpaul said:

That last part was more a complaint about how the media and some organizations are portraying the numbers, it wasn't directed at you !!

 

If it's worth anything, I also think saying it only has a 0.1% fatality rate is as irresponsible (IMO), since those numbers often (if not always) aren't put into perspective.

Added the edit.

 

Also there are so many deaths and cases not being counted, such as people who haven't been tested or who are passing away outside of hospitals such as care homes. So we will probably never know the true number of either total infections or deaths, that is just the nature of pandemics. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

I feel like it is the incubation period that throws people off in this situation. We do lockdown and they don't see any change so think there's no point, then, flout the rules, leading to the lockdown not having as big as an impact that then leads to other people not following the lockdown. 

I think it's also th elack of testing.

Knowing that a lot only had a fever and sniffles and all was "ok" while they were happily and unknowingly sharing the buggers.

If you're tested and KNOW that you have it, you'll self-quarantine (unless you're stupid, as some did in many parts of the world).

If you don't KNOW what it looks like to get it and be sick, and I mean SEE how a person who is really sick, has trouble breathing, feels like drowning and gasping for air and you can't do a thing to help that person. You feel so helpless, etc.

Some people can't learn, can't imagine without experiencing it and then they understand.

 

It might be shocking to many people, but I think that this is a part that is missing in the "communication" of this all...

All that is passing through is the "only 20% of those who get it will be sick enough to need to be hospitalized". So the general reaction is "It can't happen to me as I decided that I'm not in the at risk group".

[PhantomJaguarr]

3 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

Cases in the US now slowly starting to look like Verizon's current 4G LTE coverage map, and it's not good.

Good luck to Florida when hurricane seasons hits and the Midwest for tornado season while this is going on. My city just got real bad flooding. News reporters with masks on while the streets turned into rivers behind them.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, OriAr said:

It's definitely interlinked, the more time passes the more we know about it, the more we can finetune our response to it, the more we can scale up things to the needed amount, and then we can start lift the restrictions slowly and eventually comeback to normal by the fall.

There are probably gonna be riots at some places if things don't start to get lifted by late next month, people in Israel are growing restless as it is and the very low death rate suggests it might be time to start the exit strategy.

Each nation is it’s own special case.  Canada needs to do what Canada needs to do, and it will be slightly different at least from what America does.  Iceland has a wildly different set of problems as does Russia.  There was some Scandinavian nation (Sweden?) with unique terrain that for everything locked down early and more or less kept the disease out of the country so they’re doing better than basically everyone else.  Israel in particular has its own unique issues as an effective slave society.  To make it more fun religious zealotry is complicating matters.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Well i do talk to my family. I wasnt being rhetorical when i said they would rather die then put their family through that. I know of alot of high risk older people that would say the same thing. What would you rather have happened to you die of corona or watch your grandkids homeless, cold, and starving?

My... They are all saints then! /s

Regarding the last "pseudo-question", it's totally gratuitous. And I don't need to answer that.

 

Quote

Your whole thought process there is flawed and just insults people you dont agree with. For no reason at all.

Frankly speaking, I don't care about you personnally. I don't know you, I don't want to know about you, I don't care about you.

You are so engrossed in your own vision of "the economy to be saved" because we need the economy, when most of the rest of the world is not in the US situation for one very simple and logical reason: the countries which chose have (develop, nurture and share with all the citizens) an institutional health care system, which you call "socialist" with a lot of fear and contempt, fare way better then the US at this very moment.

Because the People are not scared of the bill to pay in order to get tested and taken care of by their health care system.

 

You always go round and round with your excuse "the people need to work to get money to live".

But the core of the problem is not THAT! The core of the problem is that the economic system in the US became so over-extended and dependant of foreign import that it simply can't be self-sufficient. There is no social and economic safety net for the workers. That's the ONLY reason they need to go back to work. They know that their country, their State (except for a few exceptions) will not take care of them. And that is the result of years of twisted propaganda and destruction of the State Apparatus.

 

And MY thought process is "flawed"?   Do yo even know what you're talking about?

 

Being ignorant is one thing and is excusable, willingly digging the hole and then wondering how to get out, that is just the price to pay for not thinking things through, and the only person to blame is the one who dug the hole.

It is certainly not my fault if you lack the imagination to foresee possible means of changing what is "wrong" for the "need of the many" and not for the "comfort of the few".

Just incredible!

 

Quote

You only see the virus as a means to kill thousands. Thats asinine and ignorant. A great depression will last years and kill more people then the virus. The same arguments you use against the people who disagree with you can easily be used word for word against you. "Who cares about the lives of everyone else. We need to beat this virus".

So I'm a mass-murderer now? LOL!  

 

Quote

Im not bashing you for caring about the people who are at high risk. We all do. But that doesnt mean that you can ignore the lives of everyone else.

You're really missing the point...

 

Quote

Again the vast majority of people will not die from the virus. Yes there are younger healthy people that have died. But the numbers are tiny. They pale in comparison to the younger healthy people that die everyday from car wrecks. But we arent telling everyone to stop driving and stay at home.

 

Only the rich will be ok during a depression. You think poor people who rely on welfare programs are going to be able to live when those programs are not being funded? Food banks are running dry right now. You think people are going to get medical treatment when the hospitals are not funded? Think their landlords are going to let them live for free while they fight for a job with tens of millions of other people? Is it ok to stay lockdown for 6 months and then next year see people starving and freezing to death on the streets?

edited to add:

You talk of empty foodbanks ???

You want to know what makes me crazy???

The food banks are running out of stock and this is happening at the same time:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/business/coronavirus-destroying-food.html

 

It's not the coronavirus that is "destroying" anything! There are destroying because they can't sell it! The Trump Administration received $2.2 Trillions, they could buy it from the farmers to give it to the foodbanks who in turn can distribute fresh produce and meat to those in NEED.

I'm not the one lacking vision or anything here... This is the moment to support each other. Not to make money!

 

Quote

 

It makes no sense not to take into consideration the outcomes of our actions. The solution cannot be worse then the problem. 

 

Its not rich people wanting to open back up to make more money. They are set. A recession will be a mild inconvenience to them. Its the poor and middle class who need it most.

He sees the tree and is missing the forest...

Edited April 11, 2020 by Guest
edited to add an information

[PhantomJaguarr]

Quote

California plans to spend nearly $1 billion to buy up to 200 million masks each month to boost its stockpile of protective gear during the coronavirus outbreak, an eye-popping figure meant to turn the state into a distributor of medical equipment for other Western states struggling with supply shortages.

“As a nation-state with a capacity to write a check for hundreds of millions — no, billions of dollars — we are in a position to do something bold and big that could be a catalyst to increase supply,” Newsom said. “We want to be there for our fellow governors.”
California taxpayers will pay $495 million upfront for the masks. The state will pay more as other shipments arrive, with a total estimated payment of $990 million, according to a letter the Newsom administration sent to the Legislature.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/california-to-buy-200-million-masks-a-month-amid-outbreak-will-distribute-to-other-states-2020-04-08

[OriAr]

15 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

snip

 

So, what do you propose? Staying in a lockdown forever? Because you do that you will get a huge economic depression which will take decades to recover from and essentially will kill more people in the long run than COVID-19. Not to mention that the social unrest that will follow will have people more and more desperate and essentially turning to crime and lawlessness.

 

The last great depression had a death toll of more than 60 million people and took almost 2 decades to recover from, a similarly sized depression now could be just as lethal eventually.

[Kilrah]

7 minutes ago, OriAr said:

So, what do you propose? Staying in a lockdown forever?

Of course not forever, but as long as necessary and more importantly more stictly. The better people are locked down and follow the orders the shorter it will be, but with people resisting all over the place it may well have to be longer than necessary.

 

7 minutes ago, OriAr said:

The last great depression

There is no possible comparison with something 100 years ago where massive amounts were being "wasted" for military purposes and basically everything in life was completely different. With today's technology a vast portion of people can work remotely, in isolated settings etc.

[RonnieOP]

31 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

Snip

Its not a pseudo question. Its a realistic question that you are ignoring because you dont like the facts of the situation.

 

Funny you say in trying to dig a hole and wonder how to get out....what do you think a lockdown is doing? Every day we are digging a hole. 

 

The administration didnt get 2.2 trillion. They passed a 2.2 trillion dollar bill thats going to stimukus checks, business loans, and expanded unemployment benefits. And not even the federal government has unlimited funds.

 

They cant just use that money and buy food from farmers to give to food banks. Did you even read the article? They are throwing away food because the food banks cant even store it. Food doesnt last forever. You cant just let milk and eggs sit in the shed for a week and have people grab some when they need it. 

 

How are you going to support people without money? I could give me kids all the love, attention, etc and thats not going to fill their stomachs. Money is what keeps us fed, clothed, and a roof over your head. None of that happens without funds. 

 

This isnt even an America issue. This is a world wide issue. Your area has to worry about the exact same thing as us. Almost everyones area is going to have to deal with this.

 

Theres not an expert out there that is saying that lockdown is sustainable. 

 

Im not the one that started asking these questions. The people in charge all over the world are asking these questions and are going to have to come up with a solution. 

 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, RonnieOP said:

Well i do talk to my family. I wasnt being rhetorical when i said they would rather die then put their family through that. I know of alot of high risk older people that would say the same thing. What would you rather have happened to you die of corona or watch your grandkids homeless, cold, and starving?

 

Your whole thought process there is flawed and just insults people you dont agree with. For no reason at all.

 

You only see the virus as a means to kill thousands. Thats asinine and ignorant. A great depression will last years and kill more people then the virus. The same arguments you use against the people who disagree with you can easily be used word for word against you. "Who cares about the lives of everyone else. We need to beat this virus". 

 

Im not bashing you for caring about the people who are at high risk. We all do. But that doesnt mean that you can ignore the lives of everyone else. 

 

Again the vast majority of people will not die from the virus. Yes there are younger healthy people that have died. But the numbers are tiny. They pale in comparison to the younger healthy people that die everyday from car wrecks. But we arent telling everyone to stop driving and stay at home.

 

Only the rich will be ok during a depression. You think poor people who rely on welfare programs are going to be able to live when those programs are not being funded? Food banks are running dry right now. You think people are going to get medical treatment when the hospitals are not funded? Think their landlords are going to let them live for free while they fight for a job with tens of millions of other people? Is it ok to stay lockdown for 6 months and then next year see people starving and freezing to death on the streets?

 

It makes no sense not to take into consideration the outcomes of our actions. The solution cannot be worse then the problem. 

 

Its not rich people wanting to open back up to make more money. They are set. A recession will be a mild inconvenience to them. Its the poor and middle class who need it most. 

 

 

Reaction to the whole “homeless cold and starving” thing.  
this makes massive massive assumptions and treats them like they’re already events.   Some for example might say that homeless cold and starving grandkids were what the extreme right have been aiming for to start with and a worst case scenario would merely leave things the same.