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Titles are getting worse (proposal)

JoostinOnline
By JoostinOnline
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Posted
1 minute ago, LinusTech said:

We've got it on pretty good authority that Google basically ignores tags on YouTube. I wouldn't be surprised if they remove the feature at some point..

ow... and what about the idea of listing the product behind it? has that been suggested before?

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Posted
On 1/10/2019 at 3:12 PM, Tristerin said:

im going to sound like a prick but here goes - guy totally reminds me of the snowflakiest snowflakes that Ive ever snowflaked.  That's the only way I can explain it.  Ive literally watched only a few videos (and while they did help and I was able to get stuff fixed with them) and I cant, I just cant.  Its all just...blech to me.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

We've got it on pretty good authority that Google basically ignores tags on YouTube. I wouldn't be surprised if they remove the feature at some point..

What about the hashtag things in the description? Does the search/promotion algorithm care about those? 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Fez_Boy said:

What about the hashtag things in the description? Does the search/promotion algorithm care about those?

Doesn't anymore

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 minutes ago, Fez_Boy said:

What about the hashtag things in the description? Does the search/promotion algorithm care about those?

Until $$$ nope

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21 minutes ago, 2Buck said:

giphy.gif

 

Tech Jesus > all.

A Trump Meme Coupled with defending Tech Jesus is fitting LOL...polar opposites.

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easy, just dont watch them. GN and Jay have covered most of the same stuff so i have only really watched the TV video from LTT and a few others because i ran out of things to do. LTT is among my last tech chanels to watch because the video can be about literally anything, its a pure guessing game as you cant tell from the thumbnail and title

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54 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I wish you'd stop pretending that LMG is forced to do this. You may need manipulation to make more money, but it's still a choice. Blaming YouTube and trends only gets you so far. It's like a developer saying they had no choice to include loot boxes because research showed that would make them the most money.

That's a very consumer perspective.

 

If you're any type business and you're not constantly trying to grow or expand, theres a good chance you wont be around in 10 years. And if you're at the mercy of your Business field's metaphorical river (in this case that River is YouTube) trying to row at an angle or against the flow isn't gonna get you as far as rowing with the flow of water. 

 

I hate the choices made too, it's made me stop watching most videos especially on youtube (fun fact, the Float plane video titles are FAR better) but from a business perspective they're maximizing their outreach which is what a business should do.

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2 hours ago, James said:

This I don't understand. As someone else ITT stated, "if you're going to watch them all anyway, what does it matter what the title/thumbnail are?"

I do it because I don't want to reward this type of behaviour, not just from LTT but YouTube as well. The fact that these types of titles are better for the algorithm shows that YouTube doesn't understand people, they understand robots. 

 

Robots : want to learn everything "what's this video about? I should watch it" 

 

People : I want to know about things that interest me "here's a video about a specific product I want to buy, I should watch it" 

 

I know I'm just 1 person so my actions aren't going to make a difference, but what else can I do? 

 

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1 hour ago, James said:

Sort of. If you want there to be LTT videos in the future, we have to follow the money. There's a reason many other HUGE tech youtubers have come and gone but we'll still here and still growing.

There's a lot of space between growing and going bankrupt. That's why I proposed a compromise. I understand that money matters. I think we as a community could deal with them if they at least weren't permanent. I'm obviously at a disadvantage because I don't have access to all the watch data you do, but don't you make most of your money from new videos? I thought once the immediate rush of clickbait viewers are over, you could edit the title to something that doesn't make me hate myself for clicking on it.

2 hours ago, James said:

image.png

 

I hear you. Does the server being pictured in the thumbnail help? Or Is it the case that you mainly just scan over titles and you don't actually look at title + thumbnail pairs?

Those of us who subscribe rarely even see the thumbnails for more than a few seconds. They show up in search results but not notifications (technically it does sometimes of I've got nothing else in my notifications bar).

 

This is a title I can absolutely embrace:

 

Did that video perform terribly in contrast to one's that don't say anything about the subject?

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12 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

This is a title I can absolutely embrace:

 

Did that video perform terribly in contrast to one's that don't say anything about the subject?

this is the example i was looking for. clear what product it is about, but yet clickbaity enough to let it do well for the company

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At some level I feel putting funny faces in thumbnails and not putting a description of the actual content of the video in the title should be treated the same way as lootboxes and publishing unfinished games with lots of DLC. With scorn and a push to make it illegal. (Also aspect ratios that aren't 16:9, but that's another story.)

 

It works because it exploits human nature, but it's a race to the bottom that favors short term growth and long term collapse through loss of trust. It's the death of a thousand cuts and there's nothing that can be done about this without having rules that apply to everyone. Which I don't assume is something that is likely to happen. And GDPR didn't really make a dent towards those same forces that make lots of websites suck, so there's that.

 

I've partly dealt with it through a CLI RSS reader, so I won't have to see the thumbnails, at least.

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1 hour ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

easy, just dont watch them. GN and Jay have covered most of the same stuff so i have only really watched the TV video from LTT and a few others because i ran out of things to do. LTT is among my last tech chanels to watch because the video can be about literally anything, its a pure guessing game as you cant tell from the thumbnail and title 

I'm not watching many of them anymore.  I like Linus's videos more though.   A very small compromise would make everyone at least content.

1 hour ago, TVwazhere said:

That's a very consumer perspective.

 

If you're any type business and you're not constantly trying to grow or expand, theres a good chance you wont be around in 10 years. And if you're at the mercy of your Business field's metaphorical river (in this case that River is YouTube) trying to row at an angle or against the flow isn't gonna get you as far as rowing with the flow of water.  

 

I hate the choices made too, it's made me stop watching most videos especially on youtube (fun fact, the Float plane video titles are FAR better) but from a business perspective they're maximizing their outreach which is what a business should do. 

I do have a business perspective.  Please read my post.  I'm not trying to prevent  them from growing.

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3 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I'm not watching many of them anymore.  I like Linus's videos more though.   A very small compromise would make everyone at least content.

Today's video was actually titles well, let's see if they keep it up like this. I'd give them two weeks untill the omega clickbait is back. I do enjoy Linus content among the most generally but I don't enjoy clicking a video not knowing what the actual hell I'm going to spend the next 10-30 minutes watching

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4 hours ago, James said:

I'm wondering at what stage your're finding yourself frustrated. Is it when you're trying to decide whether or not to watch a video? Is it after you've watched and you're trying to search for it again? 

2

For me, It's definitely the "researchability" of videoes.

I've used older videoes to inform people about products such as the S4 Mini review(This title is a bit difficult to find ), the Pono player, all the SG13 Builds, the Phase Change PC and quite a few others; however, with more recent videoes, I'd have much more trouble doing the same.

Examples:

Spoiler
  • Why would I search "The Best Smelling Laptop" for the HP Spectre Folio?
  • Although "6000 computer cores for science" narrows it down to science, I still wouldn't be able to find it in the future.
  • "Razer thought this was a good idea??" at least has the name of the manufacturer, but still lacks the distinct feature that's focused on in the video.

 

1

In most of the cases, adding the product's name or the name of the organization at the end of the title would fix it (or adding the name to the thumbnail) Hell, even keeping the click-bait title for a month and then changing it to something more searchable would work.

 

Although I don't think it's a huge problem for most of y'all's videos, if somebody's looking for a video and don't know the semi-unrelated clickbait title, it'll be a much larger pain. I think the following videos don't have anything to lose from being kept clickbait - as they don't feature a product and are descriptive enough as is.

Spoiler

"The BIGGEST Tech Hoarder"

"Electrical wiring for the Gaming Center - What could go wrong?"

 

 

I totally understand the clickbait - and I'm alright with it. I really just want to be able to find a video a couple years in the future without having to scroll past all of the videos y'all have made since.

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5 hours ago, James said:

This I don't understand. As someone else ITT stated, "if you're going to watch them all anyway, what does it matter what the title/thumbnail are?"

I'll give you my take:

 

When the channel was younger, I watched most - if not all - of the videos. I was younger, I was less picky in my tastes, and more importantly, I had more time to consume content. Over time, my consumption patterns have changed.

 

Even before the Thumbnail and Title changes, I had started to be picky in which videos I watched. I typically don't watch every single video anymore. I don't have time to watch every video even if I wanted to.

 

Because of that, the vague titles have been extremely irritating to me, because now it's harder for me to pick out the specific videos that I actually have a strong interest in.

 

I can often guess what the video is about - and if the thumbnail has an image of the content subject, that does help me decide whether I'll watch it, but I've likely skipped videos I might have enjoyed because I had no idea what the video was about.

 

What I would most like, is YouTube to somehow fix itself so that properly titled and descriptive videos don't put you at a disadvantage.

 

Question: Are Floatplane videos similarly vague in title, or do they get a proper descriptive title?

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Just so you guys know, your feedback is duly noted. We're VERY data-driven and we're always tweaking (some of you probably noticed a strategy shift mid-CES) in order to find the best balance.

 

For that reason I can't promise things will change (worse OR better) or that they will stay the same, but only that we hear you and with your feedback in mind we'll continue to make the best decisions we can..

 

Linus

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11 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Just so you guys know, your feedback is duly noted. We're VERY data-driven and we're always tweaking (some of you probably noticed a strategy shift mid-CES) in order to find the best balance.

 

For that reason I can't promise things will change (worse OR better) or that they will stay the same, but only that we hear you and with your feedback in mind we'll continue to make the best decisions we can..

 

Linus

That's dope. 

 

And as this guy said (I own 3 business' and work for Daddy Warbuck - I sell intellectual knowledge at one business, tire and auto work at another, and basically a party planner - Gun Shows):

3 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

That's a very consumer perspective.

 

If you're any type business and you're not constantly trying to grow or expand, theres a good chance you wont be around in 10 years. And if you're at the mercy of your Business field's metaphorical river (in this case that River is YouTube) trying to row at an angle or against the flow isn't gonna get you as far as rowing with the flow of water. 

 

I hate the choices made too, it's made me stop watching most videos especially on youtube (fun fact, the Float plane video titles are FAR better) but from a business perspective they're maximizing their outreach which is what a business should do.

 

I cant stand talking to people who think they know how a business is run, or should run with ZERO experience.  If you have experience to back up your claims and understanding - Ill listen, your testimony and experience may prove invaluable.  But if you are just saying stuff because you think you understand...LOLOLOL

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2 hours ago, Arika S said:

I do it because I don't want to reward this type of behaviour, not just from LTT but YouTube as well. The fact that these types of titles are better for the algorithm shows that YouTube doesn't understand people, they understand robots. 

 

Robots : want to learn everything "what's this video about? I should watch it" 

 

People : I want to know about things that interest me "here's a video about a specific product I want to buy, I should watch it" 

 

I know I'm just 1 person so my actions aren't going to make a difference, but what else can I do? 

 

No, it shows that YouTube, and many creators on it, are excessively short sighted and only use tactics that work short term.

 

Clickbait is only good for getting new views in, and only works for (a relatively) short time. It's time proven with more conventional media, and the practice was prevalent in the 1920s. Push alot of low quality content (even if at a relatively high production value) and give it a snazzy title. Then after awhile, people get sick of it and move on.

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1 hour ago, Imbellis said:
  Reveal hidden contents
  • Why would I search "The Best Smelling Laptop" for the HP Spectre Folio?
  • Although "6000 computer cores for science" narrows it down to science, I still wouldn't be able to find it in the future.
  • "Razer thought this was a good idea??" at least has the name of the manufacturer, but still lacks the distinct feature that's focused on in the video.

 

1

 

  Reveal hidden contents

"The BIGGEST Tech Hoarder"

"Electrical wiring for the Gaming Center - What could go wrong?"

 

 

I totally understand the clickbait - and I'm alright with it. I really just want to be able to find a video a couple years in the future without having to scroll past all of the videos y'all have made since.

 

Absolutely this. I think most of us understand why you're doing it, and have accepted it. What's happened lately though is making it harder for us to find old content though.

13 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

That's dope. 

 

And as this guy said (I own 3 business' and work for Daddy Warbuck - I sell intellectual knowledge at one business, tire and auto work at another, and basically a party planner - Gun Shows):

 

I cant stand talking to people who think they know how a business is run, or should run with ZERO experience.  If you have experience to back up your claims and understanding - Ill listen, your testimony and experience may prove invaluable.  But if you are just saying stuff because you think you understand...LOLOLOL

I understand how a business works. I have one myself. I personally chose people over money, and am such not that successful. I don't begrudge companies who make the opposite choice. It's just not really fair to pretend there is no choice at all.

Make sure to quote or tag me (@JoostinOnline) or I won't see your response!

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37 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

 

Absolutely this. I think most of us understand why you're doing it, and have accepted it. What's happened lately though is making it harder for us to find old content though.

I understand how a business works. I have one myself. I personally chose people over money, and am such not that successful. I don't begrudge companies who make the opposite choice. It's just not really fair to pretend there is no choice at all.

The difference though is what you value - success is measurable by each individual so I doubt you *should* call yourself unsuccessful.  I value people as well, however I see WHY they are doing it, like you I don't agree with the WHY in this situation so I choose to ensure they get zero click revenue from me.  

 

And this comment wasn't directly pointed at you but in general. Ive had multiple conversations on this forum with people who don't have an inkling of understanding of how to successfully run a business or what it takes to even get one off the ground.  Success for me is enjoying being above the RED lolol!  Wherever that lands for great income or decent residual - the reason I branch into multiple fields, some ebb, some flow.  When one ebbs, others flow usually lol.

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4 hours ago, Arika S said:

I do it because I don't want to reward this type of behaviour, not just from LTT but YouTube as well. The fact that these types of titles are better for the algorithm shows that YouTube doesn't understand people, they understand robots. 

 

Robots : want to learn everything "what's this video about? I should watch it" 

 

People : I want to know about things that interest me "here's a video about a specific product I want to buy, I should watch it" 

 

I know I'm just 1 person so my actions aren't going to make a difference, but what else can I do? 

 

The algorithm actually works oppositely to this. It approximates human behaviour based on the actions of all YouTube users, with the key performance indicator being "satisfaction" (watch time, bounce rate, coming back in the long term- hundreds of signals). When we met YouTube's team, they kept saying "whenever you ask a question like "does the algorithm favor this or that", replace the word 'algorithm' with 'audience'". 

 

Unfortunately, if YT's goal is to maximize the amount of time people spend on YT, that means exploiting human psychology.

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7 hours ago, James said:

The algorithm actually works oppositely to this. It approximates human behaviour based on the actions of all YouTube users, with the key performance indicator being "satisfaction" (watch time, bounce rate, coming back in the long term- hundreds of signals). When we met YouTube's team, they kept saying "whenever you ask a question like "does the algorithm favor this or that", replace the word 'algorithm' with 'audience'". 

 

Unfortunately, if YT's goal is to maximize the amount of time people spend on YT, that means exploiting human psychology.

I understand the position LMG is in, I guess this is just another reason why Floatplane is such a good idea for the company. In theory, the titles on Floatplane could be more descriptive and less click bait.

 

I'm learning to live with the titles, especially if the thumbnail gives me a good idea of the product or topic covered. I understand the predicment the business is in, it's success largely depends on performance on YouTube.I understand click baiting timed content like Techlinked is more than fine, the life-span of the video is realistically less than a few days, success is purely based on the first 24 hours or so. On the other hand, I really don't get click-baiting Techquickie videos, my understanding of Techquickie is that it's supposed to be a repository of informative tech related videos. An archive almost. When I'm curious about a topic, I like to see Techquickie videos appear at or near the top, even if it is some years old, it's a consistent format I've grown accustomed to. Today I was curious about negative vs postive air pressure and an informative Techquickie video appeared.

TechquickieNames4.jpg.3d3c3689d791a1c63a44faef58917a8d.jpg

In my opinion, a more conventional title for the first video would be, 'How do FOLDABLE SCREENS work?', particularly given that the topic of foldable phones is somewhat trending. Another conern for me is the thumbnail, not sure if this was intentional but it's indistinguishable from a standard LTT video, usually I can tell from the thumbnail what sort of video I'm about to watch, they have their distinct styles but between the thumbnail and title I had no idea the video was about how Foldable Screen technology worked. Not sure if that's helpful at all.

 

Again, I appreciate the team's transparency and honesty on this topic.

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21 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Question: Are Floatplane videos similarly vague in title, or do they get a proper descriptive title?

No, theyre often WAY better than the Youtube releases

 

@CPotter @LinusTech @James***The following spoilers include titles from Floatplane videos relating to their YouTube counterparts. No unreleased videos are being shown or advertised early. Feel free to edit any of these as you see fit. ***

 

For example:

Spoiler

Youtube

Floatplane

image.png.0c1a653358029176bcc0924ec00e4066.png

Spoiler

image.png.39e201e889fa74ef908e272fe4598b38.png

Spoiler

 image.png.c222dbdc410752539245d655b6c34cd7.png

They are also more upfront about sponsored videos in the title

Spoiler

image.png.f1785e7f5a5bb5a62a9cbfb58825a6a5.png

 

 

However thats not to say the title is always that good. The simultaneous releases like The AMD 590 review and the Intel i9-9980XE had the same "I'm not reviewing this" and "Intel has NO idea what to do..." Titles without a product name tag in float plane (which to their credit is something they normally do, example for a recent CES video below) 

 

To be fair, if I YouTube search i9-9980XE, their video is in the top 5 videos to come up, so... 

Spoiler

image.png.4e0ef22c61a382d22ce54ce66df636d0.png

Personally I still HATE the YouTube titles but since Floatplane titles are usually better (and thumbnails are not shown so all information I can gather on a video's content is from the title) I'm much more easily able to pick and choose which videos interest me. And I definitely dont watch all the videos (I rarely watch Tech Linked Videos [Sorry @RILEYISMYNAME]since I read the Tech News section a lot so I'm usually up to date)

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