Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Monkey Dust]

47 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

for your second point about breaking traction, can't you just have awesome Traction control so you get the absolute limit of acceleration at any given speed (up until the motor can't do it anymore)? 

I thought that was like the whole idea. Otherwise the fast teslas would be doing burnouts off the line too

If you can just mash the throttle and let the car sort it out, it takes away skill and involvement and therefore fun. And sometimes it's fun to break traction, especially on corners. It's a great solution for most cars, but not lightweight sports cars which should be playful, rather than chasing the fastest 0-60 time, or fastest lap. It's like the RWD vs 4WD and the manual vs automatic (let's not restart that one, it's just an example) discussions. 

 

Just because something is measurably better, doesn't mean it's more fun.

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Sport Driver said:

I approve the choice of the car. Father just swapped his Laguna III for descendant of your 407, 508 II. 

Anyway, yesterday it was summer set cleaning day, the are now back in the storage for about 6 months 

 

 

 

<snip>

I really do love the look of the new 508s. Nice car.

[bcredeur97]

1 hour ago, Monkey Dust said:

If you can just mash the throttle and let the car sort it out, it takes away skill and involvement and therefore fun. And sometimes it's fun to break traction, especially on corners. It's a great solution for most cars, but not lightweight sports cars which should be playful, rather than chasing the fastest 0-60 time, or fastest lap. It's like the RWD vs 4WD and the manual vs automatic (let's not restart that one, it's just an example) discussions. 

 

Just because something is measurably better, doesn't mean it's more fun.

 

You’re right 

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, Monkey Dust said:

If you can just mash the throttle and let the car sort it out, it takes away skill and involvement and therefore fun. And sometimes it's fun to break traction, especially on corners. It's a great solution for most cars, but not lightweight sports cars which should be playful, rather than chasing the fastest 0-60 time, or fastest lap. It's like the RWD vs 4WD and the manual vs automatic (let's not restart that one, it's just an example) discussions. 

 

Just because something is measurably better, doesn't mean it's more fun.

 

I have to disagree that less involvement in the process means less fun.

 

That instant surge of EV torque is delightful from what I've experienced (not much, but I have), and there's something grand to knowing it's easily accessible at all times. You can mash the accelerator in short bursts rather than waiting for a chance to row the gears; you don't need to worry about RPM and ideal torque bands. It's the fun you can have during virtually any commute rather than waiting for a country backroad jaunt, and you don't have to develop expertise to enjoy it.

 

I suppose part of this is my philosophy behind... a lot of purchases, really. I like cars, watches, and other products where I can appreciate their value every time I use them, rather than having to save them for special moments. It pains me when people spend a small fortune on a car they either drive only seldomly or have to use gently. If you're afraid to use it, why did you buy it?

[handymanshandle]

fun after owning my Saab for a year I finally got to the magical point where I need an oil change lol

Because I don't drive it that much although that's changing.

 

So I have a synthetic oil change and filter replacement scheduled at a dealership right by my other work on Monday mid morning.

[bcredeur97]

5 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

fun after owning my Saab for a year I finally got to the magical point where I need an oil change lol

Because I don't drive it that much although that's changing.

 

So I have a synthetic oil change and filter replacement scheduled at a dealership right by my other work on Monday mid morning.

Mr 2000 mile oil changes @Real_PhillBert just died a little inside

[handymanshandle]

43 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

Mr 2000 mile oil changes @Real_PhillBert just died a little inside

the sticker said 99011 and well, I'm at like 99024 now
 

[bcredeur97]

 

[Psittac]

Thought this was a nice hashtag combo

 

 

[Snadzies]

On 11/7/2020 at 2:20 PM, RTX 3090 said:

Just a question of mine : Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars. If it doesn't make enough noise, just get one with a noise generator. They even have faster 0-60 the petrol cars, so why are they hated so much

 

I would love an EV but for me the biggest hurdle is the price.

Used you can get a fun sporty car for $5,000 to $15,000 no problem with new easily being $25,000 to $35,000.

EVs tend to start at the top end of those price ranges and those are the low end, bear bones daily commuters.

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, Snadzies said:

bear bones daily commuters.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd that means it can't be fun to drive... why?

[HM-2]

5 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd that means it can't be fun to drive... why?

Nothing in principle means they can't be fun to drive because they're daily bare-bones commuters...but the simple fact of the matter is that nobody builds an electric equivalent of a Mazda MX-5 or Suzuki Swift Sport. There's no electric car offering in the marketplace which is both comparatively cheap to buy and designed to be fun to drive.

[bcredeur97]

3 hours ago, Snadzies said:

 

I would love an EV but for me the biggest hurdle is the price.

Used you can get a fun sporty car for $5,000 to $15,000 no problem with new easily being $25,000 to $35,000.

EVs tend to start at the top end of those price ranges and those are the low end, bear bones daily commuters.

they are still pretty new. $5-15k cars are usually much older than even some of the older electric cars. 
 

2 hours ago, HM-2 said:

Nothing in principle means they can't be fun to drive because they're daily bare-bones commuters...but the simple fact of the matter is that nobody builds an electric equivalent of a Mazda MX-5 or Suzuki Swift Sport. There's no electric car offering in the marketplace which is both comparatively cheap to buy and designed to be fun to drive.

chevy bolts i hear are actually decent autoX cars. Model 3 performance as well (though that's a lot of money).

 

still not as good as a true lightweight for that sort of thing. but still fun. as others said good != fun. You can have fun autocrossing a pickup truck 

[AlwaysFSX]

2 hours ago, HM-2 said:

Nothing in principle means they can't be fun to drive because they're daily bare-bones commuters...but the simple fact of the matter is that nobody builds an electric equivalent of a Mazda MX-5 or Suzuki Swift Sport. There's no electric car offering in the marketplace which is both comparatively cheap to buy and designed to be fun to drive.

And this is my point exactly. People care more about 'performance features' instead of just enjoying driving.

[Parideboy]

There should be a Tesla model 2 coming out at about 25k with hopefully the performance of a Model 3, without the bells and whistles. Not comparable, but it's something.

[bcredeur97]

2 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

And this is my point exactly. People care more about 'performance features' instead of just enjoying driving.

I think you sum it up the best tbh. 
 

you can have fun in any object that you made move. No matter how fast it moves, if it moves at all, it can be fun. Lol

[AlwaysFSX]

1 hour ago, bcredeur97 said:

I think you sum it up the best tbh. 
 

you can have fun in any object that you made move. No matter how fast it moves, if it moves at all, it can be fun. Lol

No it's gotta be QUIRKY and SPUNKY

 

 

[3 Lions]

The coolest looking van ever...

 

The Dodge SpaceVan is pretty much just a facelift of the original Commer FC from the 1960's. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commer_FC

[NumLock21]

https://youtu.be/URb89xoAaMQ

[BiG StroOnZ]

 

[McBUrn]

On 11/10/2020 at 12:32 AM, AlwaysFSX said:

And this is my point exactly. People care more about 'performance features' instead of just enjoying driving.

That's the kind of statement you read on car enthusiast forums/thread, not what you actually see in dealership when the ones paying for brand new cars are going shopping
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for performance vehicle. That's why I'm a die hard motorcycle fan but when I look at all my friends, what they care about is the look, the comfort, all the new gadgets and of course how the model/brand is perceived in general (ie: buy a german car to look cool). The engine and chassis come dead last in the priority list unfortunately.

I'm in a pretty wealthy country where it is not uncommon to have young workers (25 to 35) buying new cars and you would be surprised to see how many mid sized diesel sedan we've got on the street driven by this population. At the same age in the 80s my father was dreaming about a 205GTI, Golf GTI and alike. Now my friends are dreaming of a 1.6L 110HP diesel A Class with leather seats and apple connectivity ;(

I bought a new car last year and when I picked it up the guy spent 30min talking me through the phone connectivity ... Not a word on the engine.

[bcredeur97]

1 hour ago, McBUrn said:

That's the kind of statement you read on car enthusiast forums/thread, not what you actually see in dealership when the ones paying for brand new cars are going shopping
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for performance vehicle. That's why I'm a die hard motorcycle fan but when I look at all my friends, what they care about is the look, the comfort, all the new gadgets and of course how the model/brand is perceived in general (ie: buy a german car to look cool). The engine and chassis come dead last in the priority list unfortunately.

I'm in a pretty wealthy country where it is not uncommon to have young workers (25 to 35) buying new cars and you would be surprised to see how many mid sized diesel sedan we've got on the street driven by this population. At the same age in the 80s my father was dreaming about a 205GTI, Golf GTI and alike. Now my friends are dreaming of a 1.6L 110HP diesel A Class with leather seats and apple connectivity ;(

I bought a new car last year and when I picked it up the guy spent 30min talking me through the phone connectivity ... Not a word on the engine.

People care about cars now more in the sense that they are like houses but with pre installed furniture and electronics now

[Wi RoZ]

On 11/7/2020 at 9:20 PM, RTX 3090 said:

Just a question of mine : Why do all car enthusiasts hate electric cars. If it doesn't make enough noise, just get one with a noise generator. They even have faster 0-60 the petrol cars, so why are they hated so much

@RTX 3090 Because they're more or less forced upon us. I like em, but nothing beats a RWD lightweight manual for me

[Bitter]

 

  We sure get some quality cars.

[AlwaysFSX]

12 hours ago, McBUrn said:

That's the kind of statement you read on car enthusiast forums/thread, not what you actually see in dealership when the ones paying for brand new cars are going shopping

Well the basis of this discussion was "Why don't car people like EVs?"

 

And the answer to that is because they're full of themselves when it comes to enjoying driving, imo. They don't enjoy driving, they enjoy circle jerking over 'performance.'