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The1Dickens

Xbox Series X

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I own most of the consoles, but I rarely touch them. The kids do, but I don't. That being said Microsoft has been moving more and more towards cross play and support of xbox titles on PC. I think we are getting close to the point that the games on xbox and pc will use the same code since they both run a version of windows 10 now.

 

I think THAT is their best move over the other consoles. Having full integration between pc and xbox. The only major difference was mouse/kb support, but even that has changed.

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11 hours ago, Sypran said:

Same. Looking at that image, It looks like its 3 xbox controllers tall, 1 xbox controller in length and width?... Or about the size of the subwooffer that comes with a soundbar?
Or about the height of an Xbox One on it's side.

My question: Where are you supposed to put this thing? Most of the TV cabinets ive ever seen expect long devices vs tall ones...

Well, given you can lay it flat, it seems like it's about the same size as a standard AVR, but then you need multiple shelves or a really wide cabinet. There's a possibility the controller is shrunk to show off the cube, but, considering it's literally just a rectangular prism I don't know why that's the case. I'd need actual dimensions. But it's definitely a stupid shape.

 

6 hours ago, huilun02 said:

It finally lives up to its name.

That I'll give it.

 

Personally I'll be sticking to the platform that allows me to source my content from an open free market. Thank you very much.

...the original Xbox lived up to it's name...

 

...and how are console games not an open free market, compared to publisher exclusivity and the vast majority of games being available only on Steam?

5 hours ago, huilun02 said:

If you read the marketing material carefully, you realize they are just advertising the product's ability to send a 4k signal to the display. Nowhere do they explicitly state that it will be capable of rendering the games you play at true 4k.

 

This is what marketing does. Overselling products by misleading customers. And wording everything in a careful, cunning way so that they can't get sued.

To be fair, if literally any game can run at full 4k they can market it as playing games in full 4k.

 

5 hours ago, porina said:

Different expectations of what 4k means. A hypothetical Pong running at 4k is going to be very different from a modern AAA title running at 4k60 without upscaling tricks. So look at it more in the sense of a quality expectation rather than run at 4k at all.

Forza Horizon 4 runs in full 4k, but 30. You added the 60 stipulation yourself. Could be wrong, but I think BFV also runs 4k. Forza Motorsport 7 runs 4k60.

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6 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Forza Horizon 4 runs in full 4k, but 30. You added the 60 stipulation yourself. Could be wrong, but I think BFV also runs 4k. Forza Motorsport 7 runs 4k60.

Point is that 4k is just the resolution, and in itself doesn't account for other factors. Just being able to run anything in 4k doesn't make it a worthwhile 4k system. 30fps might be ok for some games but people will want more for others. The quality will be scaled to the hardware potential. Will it do 4k, and better than existing models? Sure, but there is still a question on how far that gets you.


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8 minutes ago, porina said:

Point is that 4k is just the resolution, and in itself doesn't account for other factors. Just being able to run anything in 4k doesn't make it a worthwhile 4k system. 30fps might be ok for some games but people will want more for others. The quality will be scaled to the hardware potential. Will it do 4k, and better than existing models? Sure, but there is still a question on how far that gets you.

We're talking about marketing here. The Xbox One X already has games that run in full 4k. Thus, it's a 4k capable console, capable of running games at 4k.

The guy was also arguing that it wouldn't be able to play games at 4k, which is untrue. Once again, the current system has games in both 4k30 and 4k60.

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7 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Am I the only one expecting it to come out and people to realize the games aren't running at true 4k?

 

I don't see how that would be possible for a $600-$500 machine (assuming that's the price) with AMD graphics. If that were true, why the hell hasn't AMD dropped a GPU for less than that price, that can demolish Nvidia's graphics card?

 

I'm calling bullshit.

Several games (including things like Red Dead 2) already run at true 4K on the Xbox One X.

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25 minutes ago, Derangel said:

Several games (including things like Red Dead 2) already run at true 4K on the Xbox One X.

Where they prevail in resolution and and fps they however lack in graphical fidelity.

 

How much exactly of that is true and how much of that actually matters is up to personal preference of the Xbox consumer.

 

Forza Horizon 4 runs at 4k30 or 1080-60 on console.

I'm pretty sure both of those options with those settings perform more stable on a decent PC and also allow for more graphical fidelity. E.g. higher texture resolution/quality.

 

But sure, native 4k is native 4k.

 

Cuphead in 4k on a console does indeed make that console 4K capable.


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1 hour ago, Derangel said:

Several games (including things like Red Dead 2) already run at true 4K on the Xbox One X.

4k on the xbox and 4k on pc for read dead redemption 2 is not really a good comparison seeing as the game has vastly superior visuals in the pc port of the game. 

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1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

4k on the xbox and 4k on pc for read dead redemption 2 is not really a good comparison seeing as the game has vastly superior visuals in the pc port of the game. 

Don't forget to mention it runs at 30fps. Makes me motion sick.


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3 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

I own most of the consoles, but I rarely touch them. The kids do, but I don't. That being said Microsoft has been moving more and more towards cross play and support of xbox titles on PC. I think we are getting close to the point that the games on xbox and pc will use the same code since they both run a version of windows 10 now.

 

I think THAT is their best move over the other consoles. Having full integration between pc and xbox. The only major difference was mouse/kb support, but even that has changed.

Xbox is already customized Win10 build running games in DX12. But this approach has actually been true for Microsoft in all of their consoles. It's a PC with a customized firmware & OS. Both Sony and Nintendo have actually ended up where MS is, though that's more to do with the former giving up in-house silicon design. 

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I'm super curious to see what happens to load times across the board with NVME drives in both the major consoles. 

 

Evne though SSDs have been around for ages, with console development always taking the forefront there's a limit to how much of a boost you can from a faster drives when the games/engines are built to run on 5400RPM laptop drives. While there's certainly no guarantee that we'll see a huge improvement on PC, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of optimizations that can be made now that the baseline speed is so much faster. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, Waffles13 said:

I'm super curious to see what happens to load times across the board with NVME drives in both the major consoles. 

 

Evne though SSDs have been around for ages, with console development always taking the forefront there's a limit to how much of a boost you can from a faster drives when the games/engines are built to run on 5400RPM laptop drives. While there's certainly no guarantee that we'll see a huge improvement on PC, I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of optimizations that can be made now that the baseline speed is so much faster. 

This is where I'm at, too.


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5 minutes ago, The1Dickens said:

This is where I'm at, too.

I assume it may require a significant change in how game assets are packaged, but I'd assume that at least in theory games should be a textbook case of what SSDs/NVME is built for - huge numbers of relatively small individual assets. 

 

I assume that most modern games bundle those assets together in ways to make it more "sequential" to load all assets for a given level/area, but once devs have time to adapt to an all-NAND world, perhaps that'll all change. 

 

Spoiler

Or maybe I'm talking totally out of my ass. If there are any game devs in this thread, I'd be curious to know how far off I am with regards to how game assets are packaged currently. 

Edit: Or maybe, given the current trends in the industry, it'll just get devs an excuse to do even less optimization and ship more 100+GB games with uncompressed everything. 

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16 minutes ago, Waffles13 said:

I assume it may require a significant change in how game assets are packaged, but I'd assume that at least in theory games should be a textbook case of what SSDs/NVME is built for - huge numbers of relatively small individual assets. 

 

I assume that most modern games bundle those assets together in ways to make it more "sequential" to load all assets for a given level/area, but once devs have time to adapt to an all-NAND world, perhaps that'll all change. 

 

  Hide contents

Or maybe I'm talking totally out of my ass. If there are any game devs in this thread, I'd be curious to know how far off I am with regards to how game assets are packaged currently. 

Edit: Or maybe, given the current trends in the industry, it'll just get devs an excuse to do even less optimization and ship more 100+GB games with uncompressed everything. 

I don't know about packing game assets, but I'm pretty sure if the limiting factor is disc read speed then they should already be pretty optimized. Even if loading is faster that's no excuse to have a 150gb download. That's the real ass with everything going 4k, at this point a lot of that is just textures. I have a semi-decent sized texture library for Blender projects I'll never do, and that's eating up 35gb. According to the properties panel, that's only 1300 files.

According to this, the 4k texture pack of Final Fantasy XV is 75gb, but at least that's an optional download. Keep in mind that's presumably also keeping the lower res textures as well.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/637650/discussions/0/1697167803861791851/

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

I don't know about packing game assets, but I'm pretty sure if the limiting factor is disc read speed then they should already be pretty optimized. Even if loading is faster that's no excuse to have a 150gb download. That's the real ass with everything going 4k, at this point a lot of that is just textures. I have a semi-decent sized texture library for Blender projects I'll never do, and that's eating up 35gb. According to the properties panel, that's only 1300 files.

According to this, the 4k texture pack of Final Fantasy XV is 75gb, but at least that's an optional download. Keep in mind that's presumably also keeping the lower res textures as well.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/637650/discussions/0/1697167803861791851/

The thing is that when we went from HDDs to SSDs, most games got a pretty minor loading bump (from 5% to maybe 30%, with a few occasional outlier where it made a bigger difference). Going from regular SSDs to NVME, there is essentially no difference (maybe 2-3% in the best cases). If random reads was the bottleneck, then the SSD jump should have been bigger, and if sequential was the limit then PCIE SSDs should have seen a significant bump. Instead we've gotten very little improvement, which I have to assume is a symptom of games being designed to load things in specific ways to make it bearable on a console with a laptop HDD. 

 

In terms of ballooning game sizes, it seems to be much more a symptom of devs just refusing to compress their textures and audio and just leaving it on the end user to deal with the massive game files. While I can appreciate having uncompressed assets as an optional download, compression nowadays is really, really good and you can massively cut down on file sizes with minimal loss of quality. And that's not even counting the games that force you to download a dozen languages of spoken audio.

 

Just another example of how pirates often get a better experience, since repacks typically make language files an optional download and shrink down the assets to a fraction of the original size. 

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22 hours ago, williamcll said:

Looks like an ITX box.

Yeah. It looks like they copy pasted some aspects of the Corsair One.


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Im happy they have a disk drive still. No way I can download these games now days with the dumb ass data cap I have. Im interested in seeing what hardware it will have and what their claims with performance will be. If the system is nice, I might consider upgrading to a 4K TV. 


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1 hour ago, Waffles13 said:

In terms of ballooning game sizes, it seems to be much more a symptom of devs just refusing to compress their textures and audio and just leaving it on the end user to deal with the massive game files. While I can appreciate having uncompressed assets as an optional download, compression nowadays is really, really good and you can massively cut down on file sizes with minimal loss of quality. And that's not even counting the games that force you to download a dozen languages of spoken audio.

It's both. Some engines only like certain texture formats, but I'm pretty sure while they can compress it, it needs to be kind of uncompressed to be read, so if they compress it too much it slows down the load times, presumably in game with texture and asset streaming.

As to audio, I'm assuming it gets down to 320 or less, and I'd rather have uncompressed audio around that range. That seems counter-intuitive... basically I'd just rather have higher res audio than a bunch of compression noise and clipping. I haven't downloaded any podcasts, but I also don't think they're typically that large, especially when a lot of game audio is short snippets with in game processing effects.

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7 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

4k on the xbox and 4k on pc for read dead redemption 2 is not really a good comparison seeing as the game has vastly superior visuals in the pc port of the game. 

Yes but that’s not exactly relevant. RDR2 still looks very good on the consoles and it running at true 4K on the X is quite the achievement. Same with games like Forza Horizon 4. Even getting them to true 4K on the relatively weak hardware of the X goes to show that games on the XSX (and PS5) will be doing true 4K. Not all of them and I imagine there will still be a lot of 30fps, but they will still manage it. Which was the entire point I was making by bringing up RDR 2 in my reply.

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I'm guessing the "Hardware Accelerated Raytracing" Is like Neon Noirs "Hardware rendered" RT.

 

And such "Software based HWCompute Engine 30-60fps Dynamic RT"

 

Still Hardware driven, accelerated, but not dedicated RT fixed hardware like people think...?


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