Elon might be in a whole heap of trouble, British cave diver brings lawsuit over pedophillia tweets

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

Meh i don't know , both were acting like jackasses , he didn't out of the blue call him pedo .  one accuse the other of publicity stunt, the other accused of him being a weirdo. 

Except calling someone out for a publicity stunt isn't illegal, calling someone a 'pedo guy' is.

 

Elon was in the wrong and he was in the wrong in a very public place. Like it or not the diver has every right to sue and unless Elon can prove that what he said is true he is going to lose this case.

 

You honestly think the judge will care if the both acted like children? The courts only care about the relevancy of the information presented in the case file and whether the defendant is guilty or not.

 

Did Elon say what he's accused of saying? Yes he did.

Can he prove what he said is true? If yes then Unsworth ends up in the opposite seat, if no then Musk commited defamation and probably libel too.

 

It really is that simple.

 

[asus killer]

isn't' there some saying like "the important is for people to talk about me, bad or good, it doesn't matter". It's perfect Elon resumed.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

Did Elon say what he's accused of saying? Yes he did.

Can he prove what he said is true? If yes then Unsworth ends up in the opposite seat, if no then Musk commited defamation and probably libel too.

Libel is just a subtype of defamation, by the way. Libel is written defamation, slander is spoken defamation.

[asus killer]

you are discussing if Elon can prove or not if the other guys is or isn't pedophile. But even if he is what sane person replies to "you don't want my help", you are a child molester via twitter. The guy is a gigantic ass  

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Also, for all we know it IS true and in that case maybe this will turn in to criminal charges for Mr Unsworth.

See, this is exactly the wrong attitude to have. If Musk had A N Y evidence of his claim he should have turned Unsworth in to the police, period. Secondly, assuming or even leaning towards guilt because Musk said it is mob mentality and represents the kind of damage slander such as this can cause. You're proving Unsworth right in his claim.

 

Maybe Musk won't care if he loses, who knows. It doesn't matter, it's not a reason to let him get away with it - I wouldn't say no to getting 75k over a couple of tweets.

 

As for being able to sustain the lawsuit, the guy isn't poor by any stretch - he's nowhere near Musk's level but I'm sure he can afford a lawsuit.

1 hour ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

Meh i don't know , both were acting like jackasses , he didn't out of the blue call him pedo .  one accuse the other of publicity stunt, the other accused of him being a weirdo. 

There's a massive difference between calling someone a weirdo and calling them a *pedophile* in an even vaguely serious manner.

1 hour ago, Jurunce said:

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if this case got thrown out of court. Judge's gonna look at the two of them like butthurt children.

If you think defending yourself from public pedophilia accusations is being a butthurt child, you have no grip on reality. You can describe their previous interactions however you like, the pedophilia accusation instantly turned it into slander and it should absolutely be seen through in court. Lawsuits happen for far pettier reasons.

[Sauron]

39 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Libel is just a subtype of defamation, by the way. Libel is written defamation, slander is spoken defamation.

Interesting, I wonder if twitter counts as slander given how colloquial the interactions are...

[Trik'Stari]

IIRC didn't that guy basically insinuate that Elon did foul sexual things with the diving rig that his engineers whipped up to try and help?

 

Don't get me wrong, what EM was pretty stupid and I'm not sure whether or not he would win or lose (debatable, probably end up settling just because), but let's not pretend like the other guy is entirely clean in this. He didn't turn it down, he did so in a rather uncouth way.

 

 

Also, calling someone a pedophile, or suggesting it, isn't inherently an attempt to state something as though it were a fact. Saying "this guy is a pedo and I have proof" is quite different from "f**k you, you freakin pedo".

 

insult does not equal accusation, at least not always.

[Tech_Dreamer]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

There's a massive difference between calling someone a weirdo and calling them a *pedophile* in an even vaguely serious manner.

 

yup, i agree , there's that side and also the alternate side , where him & his team-worked on the sub project probably in parallel very hard to bring in an alternative rescue plan had the conditions worsened , in which case it would've been the only alternative way especially when the critical heavy rains were looming . having discredited that work as just a company promoting publicity stunt amidst the chaos, kinda stings the same way as calling a guy a pedo.   you know, it's vantage points on whose words hurts more depending on the situation. 

 

sure elon could've just ignored it , but here we are, 2 tweets later.

[Misanthrope]

4 hours ago, AntiTrust said:

If hes smart he will settle with this guy out of court as soon as possible. otherwise this could turn into an extended PR nightmare for him. What a dipshit he is sometimes 

If he was smart he wouldn't have tweeted it, or doubled down on the tweets after being called out on it, or suggested a stupid tiny submarine as a solution and getting pissed off when getting called out on it by an expert rescuer, or tweeted his rants about being a "socialist" while opposing unions, or smoked fucking weed on the Joe Rogan show to encourage yet another meme...

 

I mean should I go on?

[AntiTrust]

38 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

should I go on?

I mean im already here and you quoted me so sure 

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

yup, i agree , there's that side and also the alternate side , where him & his team-worked on the sub project probably in parallel very hard to bring in an alternative rescue plan had the conditions worsened , in which case it would've been the only alternative way especially when the critical heavy rains were looming . having discredited that work as just a company promoting publicity stunt amidst the chaos, kinda stings the same way as calling a guy a pedo.   you know, it's vantage points on whose words hurts more depending on the situation. 

 

sure elon could've just ignored it , but here we are, 2 tweets later.

Just to make a point, calling someone an idiot and a pedo are the same, legally there is no inherent difference, it's HOW you say it that matters when discussing slander or libel.

 

The content of an insult is only important in this case if his lawyers could argue that it was said in a way that could convey someone to believe it to be a statement of fact, and not just an insult.

 

Insulting someone is, as far as I know, completely legal here in the US. Maybe against Twitter's TOS but that's hardly a matter for the courts to decide. And if it could be considered libel and or slander, then twitter will have to be involved in some way shape or form in this lawsuit as they technically enabled this. Unless there is a law on the books that makes them not legally liable for what people say on their platform.

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Insulting someone is, as far as I know, completely legal here in the US.

You're a dick! 

 

Am I doing it right? 

 

On topic: I think both guys need to chill out. Discrediting someone's work isn't called for when other more-appropriate companies didn't even glance at the news. Calling someone a "pedo" isn't called for either. Both of these guys need to stop thinking their the last scenario needed. 

[Trik'Stari]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

You're a dick! 

 

Am I doing it right? 

 

On topic: I think both guys need to chill out. Discrediting someone's work isn't called for when other more-appropriate companies didn't even glance at the news. Calling someone a "pedo" isn't called for either. Both of these guys need to stop thinking their the last scenario needed. 

No, as my name is not Richard.

 

See that? Language has nuance and is never black and white. Offense is always taken and not given.

 

Overall I agree. If I was a judge I would throw this out of court because it's nothing more than one guy saying something offhanded and uncalled for, and the other guy, somewhat understandably, blowing up over it.

[poochyena]

5 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Just seems like both parties involved are idiots; Elon for pushing it and Unsworth for being butthurt about it.

How does being upset over being called a pedophile make you an idiot?

[kasugatei]

5 hours ago, RorzNZ said:

Obviosly going against the grain here, but I'd like it more if Mr. Musk won. Here is my point of view

- Elon and team (more team probably) designed a submersible to try and assist rescue efforts in the cave.

- Flew all the way to Thailand with the submerisble.

- Got put down when he got there by Mr Unsworth in an unprofessional manner. 

- Probably tired from the flight, let out a few tweets in anger (Social media is really a way to express yourself out of work etc). Quite worked up after all the effort and money put in, not even to be put to use. 

 

IMO Unsworth is being a bit of a child. It's just a few tweets, he should turn his laptop off if he doesn't like it. He can't win the case anyway.                                              

I've just written this to another similar topic, but I will c/p it here as well.

 

Since this topic is active again, let me give my theory which came to me recently why Unsworth told Musk to put his submarine in his rear hole. It is because of media. If they managed to use his submarine then media would cover the rescue as if "Super-Musk" arrived in the cave and single-handedly rescued everyone while putting rescue team in the second plan. It would be win-win situation for Musk and the media because he would get extra attention and media would get story which would sell more.

 

That is just my theory. Also for Musk's retribution (pedo stuff), I don't think it was appropriate at all because those are serious accusations which come with consequences.

[S w a t s o n]

 

Either this diver gets steamrolled by the force of a multi-billionaire or Elon is publicly humiliated or diver settles for a bunch of money

 

Edit: Just noticed diver is only suing for $75k, Elon might just fucking pay him that lmfao what a dumbass only going for $75K against Elon Musk

[Trik'Stari]

25 minutes ago, poochyena said:

How does being upset over being called a pedophile make you an idiot?

Because it wouldn't have happened at all, had he not suggested Elon stick the thing he was working on, TO HELP RESCUE THE CHILDREN, up his ass and claim that the whole thing was a publicity stunt.

 

Elon's actions didn't come out of nowhere. Was it overkill? Maybe. But not unprovoked.

[Tech Enthusiast]

I would like 75.000 each time someone calls me names. Sounds like a profitable thing to do. Piss of rich people and make a living from that.

[Stefan Payne]

6 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Well Vernon Unsworth has launched a defamation suit against Musk seeking $75,000 in damages and an injunction against Musk to prevent any further accusations.

I wonder if that was such a good idea...

Elon seemed rather Autistic in his Joe Rogan Interview. 

 

Before I saw that, I'd agree with you on this guy but right now I don't think it was a good idea and that Elon might be able to prove his accusation.,,

 

Sadly I doubt we'd hear about this again, besides that it might (or might not) be settled...

Elon was in the wrong and he was in the wrong in a very public place.

Only if what Elon said was false.

 

But what if there is Proof? And Elon wasn't wrong?

The thing is if or if not the judge believes Elon or not...

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

I wonder if that was such a good idea...

Elon seemed rather Autistic in his Joe Rogan Interview. 

 

Before I saw that, I'd agree with you on this guy but right now I don't think it was a good idea and that Elon might be able to prove his accusation.,,

 

Sadly I doubt we'd hear about this again, besides that it might (or might not) be settled...

I kind of want to see Elon take this to court and get the judge to throw it out. Just to prove a point.

 

Mean words over the internet are just that. Mean words over the internet. It's been happening as long as I have been using the internet. I don't see it changing any time soon, nor do I see a reason it should.

 

Offense is taken, not given.

[poochyena]

7 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

and claim that the whole thing was a publicity stunt.

Was it not? No one asked for his help and he did nothing. There is solid evidence to suggest it was a publicity stunt. There is no evidence that I know of that the diver is a pedophile. Calling someone a pedophile when they aren't is an extreme accusation.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Calling someone a pedophile when they aren't is an extreme accusation.

It also wasn't just a one off "I'm mad so I'mma insult a bitch" thing either. He stuck to it. Elon was really and trully accusing him though and through, without any evidence, explicitly to defame him.

[Trik'Stari]

4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Was it not? No one asked for his help and he did nothing. There is solid evidence to suggest it was a publicity stunt. There is no evidence that I know of that the diver is a pedophile. Calling someone a pedophile when they aren't is an extreme accusation.

That last bit isn't a good point to go on, you can't prove a negative. As in you can't prove something doesn't exist, you can only say "there is no evidence to suggest said thing exists".

 

But, even if it was a publicity stunt, who cares? That doesn't devalue that he actually spent time and money on trying to help, at least not inherently. And it didn't really warrant him telling Elon to stick it up his ass.

 

Are you seeing the point here? Two wrongs don't make a right. This will more than likely get thrown out of court if it even makes it to court.

[Stefan Payne]

5 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

I take the Thunderfoot approach to Elon Musk. 

Thunderf00t is only somewhat trustworthy when it is about the science, if it goes beyond that, I'd trust him as far as I can throw him.

 

He also lost a lot of respect and reputation with his political shit, that was just not very well informed (there are good political commentators that are really into it, like "Hippie Anarcho Jesus", with his Leatherjacket and the Open Shirt. Better to not watch the Video and minimize it and use it as a podcast Its just him rambling in front of the Camera and sometimes sipping tea, anyway).

 

As for Musk:

 

[Trik'Stari]

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

It also wasn't just a one off "I'm mad so I'mma insult a bitch" thing either. He stuck to it. Elon was really and trully accusing him though and through, without any evidence, explicitly to defame him.

Making a LOT of assumptions here.

 

For instance, in the vein of your own argument or claim, can you prove that Elon did this explicitly to defame the guy? As in he did this with clear intent of causing damages financial or social? You are accusing him of having a specific intent, without clear, objective evidence other than your own argument and observation.

 

Sticking to an insult, does not equate to an accusation, not inherently. You shouldn't insult someone and malign their intentions, then get all mad and sue happy when they respond in kind.

 

Then again, none of this matters, Elon will likely toss the guy 75K and demand an NDA or some such and we'll hear nothing more of it. Just to make it go away.