Elon might be in a whole heap of trouble, British cave diver brings lawsuit over pedophillia tweets

[Tech_Dreamer]

8 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Yeah I understand however the distinction is criminal Vs civil. Musk isn't being prosecuted under criminal court for the accusation, he's being prosecuted under civil court for the damage to Mr Unsworths reputation caused by his accusation.

 

In that case emotion isn't relevant, Musk called him a Pedo on a public forum which literally millions of people saw. The damage to Mr Unsworths reputation is obvious.

ofcourse, but the same will be levied against his claims of the effort as publicity stunt . depending upon how his lawyers are prepping to counter. so don't know how it will turn out.  we can argue both ways on what damages most , but the judge will have the final say. which can go both ways. guess we'll have to wait & find out.

[Master Disaster]

30 minutes ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

ofcourse, but the same will be levied against his claims of the effort as publicity stunt . depending upon how his lawyers are prepping to counter. so don't know how it will turn out.  we can argue both ways on what damages most , but the judge will have the final say. which can go both ways. guess we'll have to wait & find out.

That would come under a different law called defamation per quod. In the case of Musk, calling Unsworth a Pedo has obvious implications which obviously cause damages (defamation per se or defamation on the face) where as Unsworth saying Musks actions are a publicity stunt doesn't necessarily cause damage to Musks reputation as it can be construed as an opinion which doesn't have criminal implications. In that case Musk would have to prove what damages Unsworth statement caused him.

 

Not that what Unsworth did wasn't necessarily defamation, only that it wasn't obviously defamation.

 

What's funny is Americans often say English defamation law is stupid, after reading up on the American law my head hurts LOL

[TechyBen]

22 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Again, I still don't see it. Maybe it's because I'm online all the time, where the most vile things are hurled as simply insults.

 

I see his base statement of "that pedo guy" as nothing more than a topical insult. Topical because of where the guy lives, and the rather unfortunate reputation of that nation as a whole.

 

Agreed. I would think a Judge would probably see this and just dismiss it as not being worth his time.

 

Then again, repeated attacks could be considered to be worse than just the one?

Nah. It's said in a public manner from a professional.

 

Like an off duty cop saying "that guy is a thief" is different from a young lad seeing his brother eat a cookie and going "that guy is a thief!"

 

Such a large twitter call out, unprovoked (if it was a professional disagreement on rescue procedures... why the name calling?), is going to gain legal ramifications.

[Cole5]

I'm pretty sure Elon just don't give a shit anymore. I mean i wouldn't ether hes the biggest name in the space game. 

[Trik'Stari]

3 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Nah. It's said in a public manner from a professional.

 

Like an off duty cop saying "that guy is a thief" is different from a young lad seeing his brother eat a cookie and going "that guy is a thief!"

 

Such a large twitter call out, unprovoked (if it was a professional disagreement on rescue procedures... why the name calling?), is going to gain legal ramifications.

You mistake my meaning. It's not the means, it's the manner in which it is said. The context of the sentence itself, that differentiates between an insult and an accusation. Nor was it unprovoked, considering the other guy essentially publicly told Elon to shove the submersible up his ass, then maligned his intentions by calling it a publicity stunt (it might be, but does he have proof that Elon didn't genuinely care about the children?). Elon's standing as a CEO doesn't really change the insult into an accusation. If he were a cop or someone who works in the intelligence field or something then maybe that might matter.

 

None of that matters though. This isn't a standard defamation case because of the nature of the "insult" being a very serious crime (child rape). Which apparently changes a lot of what has to be proven. Basically, from what I have read on the subject, Elon now has to either pay up, or prove the guy is a pedophile, because there is no question whether or not he said it, as well as (and this is the part I really disagree with) damages are assumed as well. It's a Defamation Per Se case.

 

IMHO, that guy should have to prove damages.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a legal expert, this is just my understanding on what I have read.

[GlobalPentahedron Corp]

I think Elon is crack up. Smart people can be very rude and some people cant handle rude people. Engineers can be very rude people. Saying f-off pedo is very effective against online bullies/SJWs/harassers. I tried it a few weeks ago - very effective - they wont get any fun out of harassing you.

Edited September 19, 2018 by GlobalPentahedron Corp
i said someone not some people. my bad english

[geo3]

On 9/17/2018 at 5:06 PM, Sauron said:

See, this is exactly the wrong attitude to have. If Musk had A N Y evidence of his claim he should have turned Unsworth in to the police, period. Secondly, assuming or even leaning towards guilt because Musk said it is mob mentality and represents the kind of damage slander such as this can cause. You're proving Unsworth right in his claim.

 

Maybe Musk won't care if he loses, who knows. It doesn't matter, it's not a reason to let him get away with it - I wouldn't say no to getting 75k over a couple of tweets.

 

As for being able to sustain the lawsuit, the guy isn't poor by any stretch - he's nowhere near Musk's level but I'm sure he can afford a lawsuit.

There's a massive difference between calling someone a weirdo and calling them a *pedophile* in an even vaguely serious manner.

If you think defending yourself from public pedophilia accusations is being a butthurt child, you have no grip on reality. You can describe their previous interactions however you like, the pedophilia accusation instantly turned it into slander and it should absolutely be seen through in court. Lawsuits happen for far pettier reasons.

Jesus. It wasn't an accusation. He was making fun of the way the guy looks. They were in an argument and called him a name. This is all kinds of over the top butthurt. WTF is happening to the world lately? Everyone needs to grow a fuckin spine already.

 

... or he just saw an opportunity to milk an billionaire for 75k. Either way this should be thrown out immediately.

[Hip]

It was not right to say that. But being honest, which single man moves to a 3rd world country and lives there on his own, especially in a country that's knowns for it's crazy sex lifestyle? I doubt this guy lives there because of the beautiful nature...

[GlobalPentahedron Corp]

2 minutes ago, Hip said:

It was not right to say that. But being honest, which single man moves to a 3rd world country and lives there on his own, especially in a country that's knowns for it's crazy sex lifestyle? I doubt this guy lives there because of the beautiful nature...

there are a lot of people in the tourism industry, fishermen, sailors, divers, etc, that move to countries with favourable currency exchange rates and good weather. I know a few people thinking about moving to thailand for retirement. Their money will go further & they do want a trad thai waifu

[Sauron]

30 minutes ago, geo3 said:

Jesus. It wasn't an accusation. He was making fun of the way the guy looks. They were in an argument and called him a name. This is all kinds of over the top butthurt. WTF is happening to the world lately? Everyone needs to grow a fuckin spine already.

 

... or he just saw an opportunity to milk an billionaire for 75k. Either way this should be thrown out immediately.

What is wrong with the world is that people can't tell the difference between an insult and defamation. And yes, it was an accusation - one he doubled down on later.

[Origami Cactus]

On 17/9/2018 at 10:55 PM, Senzelian said:

To quote ETC News / Internet Today here:

"If sh*t hits the fan, just shut the f*ck up", but Elon just doesn't seem to be able to do that.

I remember those guys.

They still making videos to this day?

[Daegun]

A lot of people don't seem to realize, he isn't being sued for some random insult. Elon doubled down on the claim a second time at a later date. I guarantee this suit wouldn't have been brought were it not for that. 

[Senzelian]

39 minutes ago, Origami Cactus said:

I remember those guys.

They still making videos to this day?

Of course. They got a new channel now called Internet Today. 

[Fetzie]

6 hours ago, geo3 said:

Jesus. It wasn't an accusation. He was making fun of the way the guy looks. They were in an argument and called him a name. This is all kinds of over the top butthurt. WTF is happening to the world lately? Everyone needs to grow a fuckin spine already.

 

... or he just saw an opportunity to milk an billionaire for 75k. Either way this should be thrown out immediately.

Elon said that the guy was a pedo. He then said it again. Saying it a second time a few weeks later proves It wasn't a "heat of the moment" thing. Elon Musk can now bring the proof that he must have that Mr Upworth is a pedophile to a court and have the case dismissed and criminal charges can be brought against Mr Upworth, or he doesn't do that and loses the defamation case.

 

Public accusations of pedophilia can be enough to ruin a career, especially when seen by millions of people. It is absolutely right to bring a defamation/slander lawsuit in this situation (assuming that the plaintiff is not a pedophile).

[Tech_Dreamer]

11 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

That would come under a different law called defamation per quod. In the case of Musk, calling Unsworth a Pedo has obvious implications which obviously cause damages (defamation per se or defamation on the face) where as Unsworth saying Musks actions are a publicity stunt doesn't necessarily cause damage to Musks reputation as it can be construed as an opinion which doesn't have criminal implications. In that case Musk would have to prove what damages Unsworth statement caused him.

yes it has that lever to it, but under the same law  under it's category there's another definition for "defamation" on statements made to deem or imply something along the lines of an allegation that damages reputation & someones business & profession. in which case attacking Tesla & it's efforts and Musk .  basically in an event where if it is a fair judgemental process where this is considered as a fair argument & counter, it's boils down to a  neutral situation,  both got their guns pointed at the other ones head . it's not a one guy wins situation. 

[spartaman64]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/10/elon-musk-queries-expertise-of-thai-cave-rescue-officials
Mr unsworth has a reason to be angry at musk 

[spartaman64]

Musk might have had some legal wiggle room until he said this https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescuer-accusations-buzzfeed-email