Msi claims larger heatsinks are better

[corsairian]

I feel MSI should've used the same exact board for testing. Not their board and an Asus board. 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

@LinusTech Shit Manufacturers Say?

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, Jurrunio said:

so what, neither boards support overclocking. For mosfets, 125C is their Tjmax, so while 75C is worse than 62C, it doesnt matter. to those informed, anyway

 

sadly, only the most expensive X470 from gigabyte, the Gaming 7, carry such heatsink.

This was my first thought too when I saw this. It's like they are advertising all these components that would be great if was a motherboard that supported overclocking but they don't so who cares. 

[WereCat]

MSI could try harder on that chart... fixed it

[just_dave]

2 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

Steve already did a test on the design of the heatsinks. I believe it was an Asus board, where the first revision just had a giant slab of aluminium as an heatsink and it performed poorly. The 2nd revision, Asus cut grooves into the heatsink and the results improved. I can't seem to find it on their site.

That was X299 Rampage VI Extreme

[just_dave]

I like how MSI compares:

Two completely unrelated heatsinks

Two non-overclockable boards on which VRM doesn't really matter because FIVR

 

[SupremeGOAT]

"bigger is better, by some lady!"  oh o,o 

[Sakkura]

3 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

In a way, they're not wrong...

 

As long as the larger heatsink is designed properly, it will dissipate heat better.

Just look at it. Obviously it is not designed properly, it's a block with no grooves for airflow.

 

But that goes for most VRM heatsinks these days.

[Mira Yurizaki]

More people need to get upset with these motherboard manufacturers and their heat sink designs. This is what a heat sink on a server board looks like:

 

And these boards are working a heckuva lot harder than any consumer board I would imagine.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

More people need to get upset with these motherboard manufacturers and their heat sink designs. This is what a heat sink on a server board looks like:

 

And these boards are working a heckuva lot harder than any consumer board I would imagine.

I think those are southbridge heatsinks. But yes, motherboard manufacturers are going in the wrong direction with VRM heatsinks. Problem is most people don't know anything about VRM cooling, so the manufacturers probably get more sales out of making the heatsinks look "cool" rather than being effective.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, Sakkura said:

I think those are southbridge heatsinks. But yes, motherboard manufacturers are going in the wrong direction with VRM heatsinks. Problem is most people don't know anything about VRM cooling, so the manufacturers probably get more sales out of making the heatsinks look "cool" rather than being effective.

It doesn't have to specifically be VRM cooling, but any cooling. Like the heat sink on my chipset has some flat plate over it with some logo that doesn't add anything to it. It does look like the heat sink has fins, but no airflow is going to get into it. I'm tempted to pop the heat sink off and install a more sensible one.

[Stefan Payne]

25 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

And these boards are working a heckuva lot harder than any consumer board I would imagine.

...and have a hell of a lot more airflow flowing over them...

[Mira Yurizaki]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

...and have a hell of a lot more airflow flowing over them...

So apparently my argument is null because all that's need to resolve any heat sink issues is just throw more air at it?

 

Okay cool. MSI, keep doing what you're doing. We'll just add industrial fans to our PCs like Linus did.

[Stefan Payne]

5 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

So apparently my argument is null because all that's need to resolve any heat sink issues is just throw more air at it?

No, its a totally different use case and because of the airflow in server cases you can't really compare the two.

And the Difference between no airflow and a litle is very large...

 

But yeah, airflow will lower the temperature far more than the Heatsink...

[TVwazhere]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

So apparently my argument is null because all that's need to resolve any heat sink issues is just throw more air at it?

 

Okay cool. MSI, keep doing what you're doing. We'll just add industrial fans to our PCs like Linus did.

Well to be fair, I think it's more about surface area and airflow in server systems and more about passive heat sinks that naturally dissipate heat in Consumer systems. Two different solutions for two different heat loads.

Spoiler

If you're not EVGA's X299 dark board going for OC world records, you probably dont NEED active cooling, but it's still good to have decent heat sinks with appropriate mass AND surface are. Otherwise you may as well just throw a chunk of aluminum on it and call it a day (seems to be what MSI's take on this is)

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

No, its a totally different use case and because of the airflow in server cases you can't really compare the two.

And the Difference between no airflow and a litle is very large...

But yeah, airflow will lower the temperature far more than the Heatsink...

Air flow is only key with regards to how much air you can pass over the thing needed to be cooled. A finned heat sink requires less airflow from a fan because more air passes through more material over the thing being cooled. A solid block of metal is not going to cool a thing as well as a finned heat sink of the same volume.

 

1 minute ago, TVwazhere said:

Well to be fair, I think it's more about surface area and airflow in server systems and more about passive heat sinks that naturally dissipate heat in Consumer systems. Two different solutions for two different heat loads.

But these designs lack sufficient surface area to make passive cooling work effectively.

 

I mean, I think both of you here are going "different use cases, so apples to oranges comparison." Why do you think server boards are designed that way? For the lulz? No, it's to maximize the efficiency of the system. Why can't we take those same principles and apply to consumers? In this case, a heat sink of the design I showed might even be cheaper to make than whatever "totally radical" design consumer boards have. And yet people are paying extra for that when it doesn't get them anything better and may even be worse.

[Stefan Payne]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Air flow is only key with regards to how much air you can pass over the thing needed to be cooled. A finned heat sink requires less airflow from a fan because more air passes through more material over the thing being cooled. A solid block of metal is not going to cool a thing as well as a finned heat sink of the same volume.

Yes, but the difference between no airflow and some airflow is like 20K or even more than that.

[TVwazhere]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Why can't we take those same principles and apply to consumers? ......And yet people are paying extra for that when it doesn't get them anything better and may even be worse.

Because it look ugly. If it doesnt look good people wont buy it. Most people care more about aesthetics (or dont realize how much "looks" can affect the parts of a PC)

 

Without question, proper VRM support like the board I hid in the spoiler would be great, especially for Ryzen or unlocked Intel boards, but they're not nice to look at, and in 2018 "if your build doesnt look a+ with everything being sleek and matchy-matchy, it's garbage".  

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes, but the difference between no airflow and some airflow is like 20K or even more than that.

And what's the difference between a block of metal that's 4cm on each side vs a finned heat sink that has the same volume?

 

Proper air cooling (which I will define as moving heat from the source to the environment as efficiently as possible) requires both good airflow and proper heat sink design. But with proper heat sink design, you need less airflow from fans because more air makes contact with the heat sink material. 

 

[Dabombinable]

My Asus P5Q Deluxe, joined by shitloads of LGA775 motherboards is saying: Fuck off, those aren't real heat sinks. These are real heatsinks:

Spoiler

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2381/2

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2427/2

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2099&page=3

 

 

 

[PlayStation 2]

Ya think?

Also, misleading graphs. Quality!

[Amazonsucks]

4 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

More people need to get upset with these motherboard manufacturers and their heat sink designs. This is what a heat sink on a server board looks like:

 

And these boards are working a heckuva lot harder than any consumer board I would imagine.

Is that a Supermicro? Im going to probably use one of theirs for my next build.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Just now, Amazonsucks said:

Is that a Supermicro? Im going to probably use one of theirs for my next build.

Probably. They're like the only ones in the market

 

I just pulled this image from a random place on the interwebs.

[spartaman64]

 i dont understand why motherboard manufacturers removed heatfins for their heatsinks and just have solid blocks of metal

[schwellmo92]

19 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

More people need to get upset with these motherboard manufacturers and their heat sink designs. This is what a heat sink on a server board looks like:

 

And these boards are working a heckuva lot harder than any consumer board I would imagine.

Yes but server boards get a ridiculous amount of airflow and sit in temperature controlled rooms.