And so it begins, Flippy the burger flipping robot starts work in California

[aus_dom]

For me I worked at McDonald's, and I don't think this can be faster than a properly trained person on the grill. We use a clam shell so the burgers are not flipped and cook faster. So in about 2 minutes I could cook and season enough patties for 48 cheese burgers, and have time yet to clean the grill between each set.

 

And for the entire kitchen we have timed goals for average time spent on each order to be less than 45 seconds during rush times 

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Cheaper, yes, but a conveyor belt that only cooks hamburgers can't be modified easily to do drastically different things.

I think you two are focusing too much on the fact that this robot can only make burgers and nothing else.

 

It's capabilities will expand over time. The creators already said it could potentially chop veggies, put condiments on the burger, etc.

 

Think of this as a proof of concept. Version 2.0 of this robot may not even look the same, and may have much more capabilities.

But a process line machine can be made from the start to do all those things.  In fact they already exist in food manufacture.  Designing a robot arm that does one job inefficiently with the future expansion in mind is pretty illogical when such fully automated machines already exist.

 

About the only thing a robot arm can do better than process line machines is welding.

[Hunter259]

Glad to know that the solution to all automation problems is "Oh there are other jobs" and "Now everyone can go get higher education". To compare the current automation to the Industrial Revolution is absolutely ridiculous. Did it kill jobs in a similar fashion? Yes. Did it still require people to use the machines yes. That is the key difference. People aren't needed to use these machines they are only needed to fix them. Repair men were needed then just as they are needed now. Those jobs aren't going away. There are currently ~4 million people in the United States that work in the fast food industry. Lets say half of them get replaced. Where are they going to go? High School level jobs are disappearing at a rate unseen in history. It's likely that a very large portion of that 2 Million will not find a job with their current level of education. "Well they can go get an education!" Ok. With what money? "Free College!" OK. Someone else's money. Likely to be supported by sales tax which is mostly covered by the middle and lower classes anyway. But how many of these people are honestly cut out for higher education? The amount of people I have met that are going to college currently that are completely not cut out for it is terrifying. Especially those who don't have clear cut career paths. Not everyone is able to hand higher education. To act as if that isn't true is simply lying to yourself. This is without even talking about how when you add another few million people into the college system you cause an inflation in higher education. Glad to know no one cares about my Bachelors that gets to be lower in value as the years go by. "Higher Minimum Wage!" The best way to replace you faster than you already are and increase the stress on small business. I can agree that the current is low but the #FightFor15 is a joke at a federal level. Basic Income? Cool idea in concept but ultimately boils down to a federal level redistribution of wealth. It's possible that it may end up being the only way to keep things similar to the way they are currently but it would be one hell of a fight to do so.

[mr moose]

14 minutes ago, Hunter259 said:

Glad to know that the solution to all automation problems is "Oh there are other jobs" and "Now everyone can go get higher education". To compare the current automation to the Industrial Revolution is absolutely ridiculous. Did it kill jobs in a similar fashion? Yes. Did it still require people to use the machines yes. That is the key difference. People aren't needed to use these machines they are only needed to fix them. Repair men were needed then just as they are needed now. Those jobs aren't going away. There are currently ~4 million people in the United States that work in the fast food industry. Lets say half of them get replaced. Where are they going to go? High School level jobs are disappearing at a rate unseen in history. It's likely that a very large portion of that 2 Million will not find a job with their current level of education. "Well they can go get an education!" Ok. With what money? "Free College!" OK. Someone else's money. Likely to be supported by sales tax which is mostly covered by the middle and lower classes anyway. But how many of these people are honestly cut out for higher education? The amount of people I have met that are going to college currently that are completely not cut out for it is terrifying. Especially those who don't have clear cut career paths. Not everyone is able to hand higher education. To act as if that isn't true is simply lying to yourself. This is without even talking about how when you add another few million people into the college system you cause an inflation in higher education. Glad to know no one cares about my Bachelors that gets to be lower in value as the years go by. "Higher Minimum Wage!" The best way to replace you faster than you already are and increase the stress on small business. I can agree that the current is low but the #FightFor15 is a joke at a federal level. Basic Income? Cool idea in concept but ultimately boils down to a federal level redistribution of wealth. It's possible that it may end up being the only way to keep things similar to the way they are currently but it would be one hell of a fight to do so.

I suggest you watch the video I posted on the last page.

 

How to deal with what's coming requires a major shift in cultural ideals not in burdens of society, that means accepting that free education is not a burden on someone else (it isn't in other countries right now).  We can't shutdown the evolution of technology and automation because we want to cling to yesterdays working ideals and cultural conditions and as a result fear what might happen. 

 

The sheer fact of the matter is that nothing is really different.  Again we can't take sheer numbers and say it is different now, because it isn't, we have a larger economy to support larger shifts in workplaces, we have larger populations in the workforce that provid stability for larger changes in ideals.

 

The ultimate truth is that there are enough resources, enough work and enough money in the system to support what is largely an economy that works on sharing what we have rather than earning it.  True inequality stems from not have the same opportunities, not from the outcomes, with automation comes the great equalizer where everyone (even those with an iq below 80) will have the same opportunity to earn a half decent wage as the next person (all jobs from cleaners to middle management will go).   We don't need a 40 hour work week for that and it doesn't stop those who want to work more making more.  

[Hunter259]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

I suggest you watch the video I posted on the last page.

 

How to deal with what's coming requires a major shift in cultural ideals not in burdens of society, that means accepting that free education is not a burden on someone else (it isn't in other countries right now).  We can't shutdown the evolution of technology and automation because we want to cling to yesterdays working ideals and cultural conditions and as a result fear what might happen. 

 

The sheer fact of the matter is that nothing is really different.  Again we can't take sheer numbers and say it is different now, because it isn't, we have a larger economy to support larger shifts in workplaces, we have larger populations in the workforce that provid stability for larger changes in ideals.

 

The ultimate truth is that there are enough resources, enough work and enough money in the system to support what is largely an economy that works on sharing what we have rather than earning it.  True inequality stems from not have the same opportunities, not from the outcomes, with automation comes the great equalizer where everyone (even those with an iq below 80) will have the same opportunity to earn a half decent wage as the next person (all jobs from cleaners to middle management will go).   We don't need a 40 hour work week for that and it doesn't stop those who want to work more making more.  

I've watched it. It's the same very liberal ideas that sound great but end up being very difficult to implement on the scale the United States needs. While you act as if jobs are suddenly going to appear for a very large uneducated sect of the population it simply isn't. This has been true for far longer than just these latest automation trends. For the past 30 years as coal jobs have disappeared you have many that simply were left to rot as many simply weren't able to adjust to a totally different type of job. Welfare could soon become a giant part of the US economy and you simple can't get away from it. Many of the points I made you simple ignored and reiterated things you have already said. 

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Hunter259 said:

I've watched it. It's the same very liberal ideas that sound great but end up being very difficult to implement on the scale the United States needs. While you act as if jobs are suddenly going to appear for a very large uneducated sect of the population it simply isn't. This has been true for far longer than just these latest automation trends. For the past 30 years as coal jobs have disappeared you have many that simply were left to rot as many simply weren't able to adjust to a totally different type of job. Welfare could soon become a giant part of the US economy and you simple can't get away from it. Many of the points I made you simple ignored and reiterated things you have already said. 

It's not a "liberal" thing, it's just economics and cultural  structure.  By labeling it "liberal" you give yourself a reason to dismiss it without even acknowledging the problem/solution.  I haven't ignored any of the points you made, some of them are just wrong while others can be remedied.   You premise is that there is a difference between the industrial revolution and automation today is fallacious, The only difference we face over the next few decades is how to manage wealth distribution.  I don't know why you think people are suggesting new jobs will suddenly appear,  no one has said that, what I (and most people have been saying is that jobs won't suddenly disappear requiring a major and instant re-deployment of the workforce.    Automation doesn't just leave millions out of work over night, it takes decades and natural attrition in the workforce takes care of most of it.  

 

 

[Salv8 (sam)]

i wounder if he knows how to use his middle finger?

he is called flippy for a reason, maybe he will turn into Craig from south park...

also it reminds me of flippy the dolphin...

[Donut417]

On 3/5/2018 at 2:30 PM, Master Disaster said:

Flippies what do all the people who no longer have jobs do for work?

 I dont see all restaurants getting this. I mean think about it, many Mc Donald's and Burger Kings are privately owned. Many of those owners are cheap. $60k for 1 robot is a lot for these people. I work at BK, and from what our General manager says, we are not getting the kiosk. Only the busy stores in our franchise group are getting them. Even though Kiosks exist, some people like OLD People will still want to order and pay with a human. Kiosks dont do cash. So you need at least one cashier for front counter and drive thru, maybe two if its really busy. Then you also need to hire a guy that knows about robot repair. So not all jobs will be lost and some might be created. 

 

To be honest I knew this would happen. There is no way these places want to pay $15 an hour. At least with robots you dont have to worry about them calling off. Really who this fucks over is the high school kid who needs a job. Or someone who is really down on their luck. The fact is you can always go to Walmart, they go thru employees like they are candy. Or any retailer for that matter. As the job is just as shitty and stressful as fast food. 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

 I dont see all restaurants getting this. I mean think about it, many Mc Donald's and Burger Kings are privately owned. Many of those owners are cheap. $60k for 1 robot is a lot for these people. I work at BK, and from what our General manager says, we are not getting the kiosk. Only the busy stores in our franchise group are getting them. Even though Kiosks exist, some people like OLD People will still want to order and pay with a human. Kiosks dont do cash. So you need at least one cashier for front counter and drive thru, maybe two if its really busy. Then you also need to hire a guy that knows about robot repair. So not all jobs will be lost and some might be created. 

 

And this honestly is another reason  automation does not cause the instant unemployment of 4Million people.   Over decades employment will shift away from those jobs,  but those 4 Million will have largely been accounted for in a new cultural employment trend thus not actually unemployed at anyone time.   

 

Also we have Kiosks in Australia in nearly every mcdonalds and we have minimum wage laws that means the cheapest anyone can be paid is $9 an hour.  Ithasn't had an impact on unemployment, feasibility or service standards.  

[GER_T4IGA]

On 5.3.2018 at 8:46 PM, Master Disaster said:

Without creating enough new jobs to replace the ones that are being automated that's a literal impossibility. If 200,000 people are suddenly out of work all those people are now fighting over the same pool of jobs as everyone else.

I would argue in favor of the fact that this creates jobs while it takes others. The issue that the people who were fired have no business in the industry this branch creates jobs in. So to some degree I agree.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, GER_T4IGA said:

I would argue in favor of the fact that this creates jobs while it takes others. The issue that the people who were fired have no business in the industry this branch creates jobs in. So to some degree I agree.

That's already happened, several times through out history in fact.  Between 2007 and 2010 (the recession in the US) 8 Million people lost their jobs.  Easily 200,000 from any one industry.   And that's without the specific creation of new jobs, so  the idea that a device that could wipe out 4 Million jobs over the time frame of a few decades (one that creates new jobs and improves quality of life mind you) being a disaster is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[ImNotDeViLzzz]

On 3/5/2018 at 2:49 PM, LordTaco42 said:

I'm telling you automation and high minimum wage is like adding oil to a fire.

Minimum wage should match inflation and $15 doesn't even do that. No way $15 can be called high minimum wage.  

[bcredeur97]

On 3/7/2018 at 2:39 PM, aus_dom said:

For me I worked at McDonald's, and I don't think this can be faster than a properly trained person on the grill. We use a clam shell so the burgers are not flipped and cook faster. So in about 2 minutes I could cook and season enough patties for 48 cheese burgers, and have time yet to clean the grill between each set.

 

And for the entire kitchen we have timed goals for average time spent on each order to be less than 45 seconds during rush times 

machine would be a 1-time cost though, rather than having to consistently pay an employee $8/hour

 

 

maintenance is still a factor, but these things will only get more and more reliable and parts will get cheaper so that'll be a non-issue

[MadyTehWolfie]

If this becomes a thing what will all the illegal immigrants/school kids in Cali do now? /S though maybe not they tend to take jobs like that.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, MadyTehWolfie said:

If this becomes a thing what will all the illegal immigrants/school kids in Cali do now? /S though maybe not they tend to take jobs like that.

First of all the illegals take jobs Americans dont want. Like working out in fields picking fruit and veggies. With all this talk about deportation, many farmers are now having a hard time getting help. So now food prices will increase and people will whine because they have to pay more for produce. While I dont like the fact people coming in to this country with out permission, its still the fact, they do the shit we dont want to do.

[Bananasplit_00]

Now I want a burger... 

[MadyTehWolfie]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

First of all the illegals take jobs Americans dont want. Like working out in fields picking fruit and veggies. With all this talk about deportation, many farmers are now having a hard time getting help. So now food prices will increase and people will whine because they have to pay more for produce. While I dont like the fact people coming in to this country with out permission, its still the fact, they do the shit we dont want to do.

Wow dude was just making a joke, relax. Don't need a whole diatribe. 

[kokakolia]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

First of all the illegals take jobs Americans dont want. Like working out in fields picking fruit and veggies. With all this talk about deportation, many farmers are now having a hard time getting help. So now food prices will increase and people will whine because they have to pay more for produce. While I dont like the fact people coming in to this country with out permission, its still the fact, they do the shit we dont want to do.

Wow! You must be the life of the party at family dinners...

[dtaflorida]

Just imagine, one day the new disparaging job will be: Burger flipping programmer.

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, kokakolia said:

Wow! You must be the life of the party at family dinners...

Some would say making jokes about illegal immigrants would already have killed the mood. 

[Andreas Lilja]

23 hours ago, ImNotDeViLzzz said:

Minimum wage should match inflation and $15 doesn't even do that. No way $15 can be called high minimum wage.  

The thing is that these jobs were never meant to provide sustenance. It's for teenagers and other people with little marketable skills.

 

 

[WMGroomAK]

And Flippy is now on break?  Sounds like they got too much attention and interest requiring additional staff training and increasing Flippy's speed...

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43343956

 

[Canada EH]

hopefully it will be a showcase pice

 

so $60k for one burger flipping robot

will it also clean the grill?

will it also get the frozen paddies?

dunk fries and rings?

hopefully it wont break down

 

$11/hour is the minimum wage in California

Are they open 24/7?

or just say 17hrs something like 6am to 11pm

If 17hrs is the case then should have that machine paid off in a really quick ass time.

if its 24hrs 365, then damn thats paid off in half the time!

 

Where are all the unskilled workers going to work now?

 

Self ordering machines

Robot burger flippers

 

 

 

 

 

[kokakolia]

40 minutes ago, Canada EH said:

hopefully it will be a showcase pice

 

so $60k for one burger flipping robot

will it also clean the grill?

will it also get the frozen paddies?

dunk fries and rings?

hopefully it wont break down

 

$11/hour is the minimum wage in California

Are they open 24/7?

or just say 17hrs something like 6am to 11pm

If 17hrs is the case then should have that machine paid off in a really quick ass time.

if its 24hrs 365, then damn thats paid off in half the time!

 

Where are all the unskilled workers going to work now?

 

Self ordering machines

Robot burger flippers

 

 

 

 

 

Construction. But it's hard dangerous work. Long hours. No days off. 12 hour days. They pay you under the table. Usually $20/hour. But you'll never really know what your wage is. There's no contract. Money just shows up in your bank. If you get hurt it's your fault. You're just a contractor. 

[mr moose]

56 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

The thing is that these jobs were never meant to provide sustenance. It's for teenagers and other people with little marketable skills.

 

 

No, those jobs only exist because burger places need someone to cook the burgers.  They weren't devised for any other purpose.  The manager/owner wants to pay as little as possible and people will take any job they can.   Which makes burger flippers just as valid of a job and income as any other.