And so it begins, Flippy the burger flipping robot starts work in California

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, kokakolia said:

Construction. But it's hard dangerous work. Long hours. No days off. 12 hour days. They pay you under the table. Usually $20/hour. But you'll never really know what your wage is. There's no contract. Money just shows up in your bank. If you get hurt it's your fault. You're just a contractor. 

or they can work in human services,  the jobs that will never be replaced by robots because daycare, education, parenting, social welfare and counseling, doctors, nurses,  personal assistance and intervention are all jobs no one wants a robot to do.   I don't want to be served by a robot when I sit down for a meal in an decent restaurant, and I don't want my food to come out of a pipe in the ceiling either.     People need people, we are emotional beings.

 

[Donut417]

49 minutes ago, Canada EH said:

Where are all the unskilled workers going to work now?

Retail. Ive worked both in Fast Food and Retail. Its pretty much the same, deal with angry ass holes day in and day out. 

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

or they can work in human services,  the jobs that will never be replaced by robots because daycare, education, parenting, social welfare and counseling, doctors, nurses,  personal assistance and intervention are all jobs no one wants a robot to do.   I don't want to be served by a robot when I sit down for a meal in an decent restaurant, and I don't want my food to come out of a pipe in the ceiling either.     People need people, we are emotional beings.

 

Funny you should mention that. I guess there is a shortage of RN's. Because not many people are getting in to the field. But the issue is you need an education to get medial jobs. Where as Fast food and retail any idiot can do the job. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Funny you should mention that. I guess there is a shortage of RN's. Because not many people are getting in to the field. But the issue is you need an education to get medial jobs. Where as Fast food and retail any idiot can do the job. 

So save waitressing and retail (where applicable) for the morons. and educate the rest to do the more intermediary and above jobs.

 

In All this we are going to get to a stage where no one works a 40 hour week, no one will have the mortgages like they do, necessities like power and food will almost be free and the only people who will work longer than they need to will be those driven by compulsion or desire to be richer.  

[Andreas Lilja]

59 minutes ago, mr moose said:

No, those jobs only exist because burger places need someone to cook the burgers.  They weren't devised for any other purpose.  The manager/owner wants to pay as little as possible and people will take any job they can.   Which makes burger flippers just as valid of a job and income as any other.

They can pay as little as possible because their workforce has no competitive skills. Anyone can flip burgers, hundreds of millions of us do it merely for our appetite. 

 

 

[Donut417]

55 minutes ago, mr moose said:

and educate the rest to do the more intermediary and above jobs.

The issue is education isnt cheap. A Bachelors Degree is like $50k. Last I checked the US has billions and billions of dollars in student loan debt. Many of these loans are in default, like 1 in 10 loans. Thats why people dont get educated, because they dont want to owe the government. 

[mr moose]

34 minutes ago, Raskolnikov said:

They can pay as little as possible because their workforce has no competitive skills. Anyone can flip burgers, hundreds of millions of us do it merely for our appetite. 

 

 

 

Doesn't change the reason those jobs exist.

22 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The issue is education isnt cheap. A Bachelors Degree is like $50k. Last I checked the US has billions and billions of dollars in student loan debt. Many of these loans are in default, like 1 in 10 loans. Thats why people dont get educated, because they dont want to owe the government. 

Education isn't cheap in the US under current market conditions that rely on 20th century practices.  But if we evolve with the market and the economy and where the world is going, education can become very cheap (almost free).  You only need to employ one teacher per 20 students and educate in a peer to peer network rather than an isolated  top down structure (service education).   

 

This is already working in reality, just not recognized yet. I.E What have you learnt from sharing knowledge over the internet?  Information from youtube, from forums from online groups?  More or less than what you learnt at school? and was it cheaper?    This is peer to peer education, it is significantly cheaper, fosters a deeper understanding of core material  being studied and doesn't require stupid university buildings or infrastructure.   It requires one person to oversee and ensure standards are being met and maybe some sort of testing or exam (maybe even only real world placement for assessment of abilities).  That can be very cheap. 

And the other advantage is the way in which people learn in peer to peer environments means that conditions that would normally hold a student back from accessing an education (e.g conflict of personality with the teacher or one or two other students) is no where near the same impending  issue as in conventional classrooms.

 

 

 

 

[Donut417]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Doesn't change the reason those jobs exist.

Education isn't cheap in the US under current market conditions that rely on 20th century practices.  But if we evolve with the market and the economy and where the world is going, education can become very cheap (almost free).  You only need to employ one teacher per 20 students and educate in a peer to peer network rather than an isolated  top down structure (service education).   

 

This is already working in reality, just not recognized yet. I.E What have you learnt from sharing knowledge over the internet?  Information from youtube, from forums from online groups?  More or less than what you learnt at school? and was it cheaper?    This is peer to peer education, it is significantly cheaper, fosters a deeper understanding of core material  being studied and doesn't require stupid university buildings or infrastructure.   It requires one person to oversee and ensure standards are being met and maybe some sort of testing or exam (maybe even only real world placement for assessment of abilities).  That can be very cheap. 

And the other advantage is the way in which people learn in peer to peer environments means that conditions that would normally hold a student back from accessing an education (e.g conflict of personality with the teacher or one or two other students) is no where near the same impending  issue as in conventional classrooms.

 

 

 

 

Your talking about the US changing for the better. Its not going to happen. If any thing we are going backwards with many things. I have 0 faith in our Federal Governments ability to lead. Thats where the change needs to happen if we are going to make this country a better place. 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Donut417 said:

Your talking about the US changing for the better. Its not going to happen. If any thing we are going backwards with many things. I have 0 faith in our Federal Governments ability to lead. Thats where the change needs to happen if we are going to make this country a better place. 

Sorry.  I know.  It's going to be a really hard struggle.   We are literally on the verge of humanities next big epoch, and those who can't drag themselves away from 20th century concepts are going to have really hard time being relevant.  

[Donut417]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

who can't drag themselves away from 20th century concepts are going to have really hard time being relevant.  

Which is why the US wont be relevant in the future. Sweden and other countries who have their heads on straight will be all set. But  the US has its head firmly crammed up its ass and is starving its brain for oxygen. 

[TacoSenpai]

On 3/9/2018 at 8:58 PM, mr moose said:

 

Doesn't change the reason those jobs exist.

Education isn't cheap in the US under current market conditions that rely on 20th century practices.  But if we evolve with the market and the economy and where the world is going, education can become very cheap (almost free).  You only need to employ one teacher per 20 students and educate in a peer to peer network rather than an isolated  top down structure (service education).  

Or why even get a the "oh so valued bachelors degree" in the first place?  Think about it, unless you are going to become a doctor, engineer, lawyer or something that no shit absolutely requires a degree in that subject what's the purpose of it?  You could go 30-50K in debt with psychology/social science degree number 12,875 from State U like all of your other peers that were told to do the same thing or go get certifications in demand, bootcamps etc for much much less and actually get skills in demand.  Who do you think is going to be more valuable to companies?  I think more employers are figuring it out and placing less and less a value on undergrads.  How can you not when literally all of their entry level applicants list the same kind of degree from the same state university what makes them stand out from one another?

 

If I were running a university private or even federally subsidized I'd be a tad more than worried about my admission numbers in the future.

[knightslugger]

College: Obedience school for adults.

 

learn a trade.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

Or why even get a the "oh so valued bachelors degree" in the first place?  Think about it, unless you are going to become a doctor, engineer, lawyer or something that no shit absolutely requires a degree in that subject what's the purpose of it?  You could go 30-50K in debt with psychology/social science degree number 12,875 from State U like all of your other peers that were told to do the same thing or go get certifications in demand, bootcamps etc for much much less and actually get skills in demand.  Who do you think is going to be more valuable to companies?  I think more employers are figuring it out and placing less and less a value on undergrads.  How can you not when literally all of their entry level applicants list the same kind of degree from the same state university what makes them stand out from one another?

 

If I were running a university private or even federally subsidized I'd be a tad more than worried about my admission numbers in the future.

Which is why most Uni's are an old method for a bygone era.  Some universities are starting to move away from traditional stand and lecture then exam models to a peer 2 peer education model.  They can call the attained education whatever they want, if it is cheap and has merit it's worth it.

 

7 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

College: Obedience school for adults.

 

learn a trade.

Whilst I agree with undertone in principal,  that might be a little to blunt and miss the point of certain education methods.

 

[dalekphalm]

11 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

Or why even get a the "oh so valued bachelors degree" in the first place?  Think about it, unless you are going to become a doctor, engineer, lawyer or something that no shit absolutely requires a degree in that subject what's the purpose of it?  You could go 30-50K in debt with psychology/social science degree number 12,875 from State U like all of your other peers that were told to do the same thing or go get certifications in demand, bootcamps etc for much much less and actually get skills in demand.  Who do you think is going to be more valuable to companies?  I think more employers are figuring it out and placing less and less a value on undergrads.  How can you not when literally all of their entry level applicants list the same kind of degree from the same state university what makes them stand out from one another?

 

If I were running a university private or even federally subsidized I'd be a tad more than worried about my admission numbers in the future.

Many Universities teach a lot of extra skills that people don't think about.

 

Example: mandatory English classes, proper research techniques, proper citing, helping to develop written and verbal communication skills, etc.

 

Not to say that every person will need these skills, but if you do bootcamps, or take a cert, you're likely not getting any of it.

[PocketNerd]

I've probably missed the boat, but Flippy got shut down after just ONE DAY since it couldn't handle the extra influx of curious customers. Looking at some of the videos for it... yeah it's clunky as hell, and I doubt robots will be replacing communicating and smooth-moving humans in the kitchen anytime soon. But it does mean we need to start talking about the ramifications of when (it's not a matter of 'if' anymore) it does happen.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/03/07/flippy-burger-flipping-robot-break-already/405580002/

[TacoSenpai]

4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

 

Not to say that every person will need these skills, but if you do bootcamps, or take a cert, you're likely not getting any of it.

Fair point.  Though I do think many cert exams are getting far harder and testing more than just the subject matter.  The CISSP for example, is now an adaptive test where if it sees you getting questions wrong in a domain it starts asking you more from it hammering you.  Most even have practical portions and have questions that require a good deal of critical thinking and are far less straight forward than youd find on a typical school exam.  

 

 

In my limited IT career starting out i've also found that no one will give you the answers to these tests you'll have to learn how to pull together multiple study materials from different sources and figure things out. 

[Donut417]

4 hours ago, PocketNerd said:

I've probably missed the boat, but Flippy got shut down after just ONE DAY since it couldn't handle the extra influx of curious customers. Looking at some of the videos for it... yeah it's clunky as hell, and I doubt robots will be replacing communicating and smooth-moving humans in the kitchen anytime soon. But it does mean we need to start talking about the ramifications of when (it's not a matter of 'if' anymore) it does happen.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/talkingtech/2018/03/07/flippy-burger-flipping-robot-break-already/405580002/

Thanks for the link. It sounds like they pay people pretty well. Though they cant find or cant keep qualified employees. This is a big issue in fast food. Ive seen people work one day at BK and then dont show up ever again. Most of the time its because they find something better. Doesn't matter if they failed this time, This has proved that the concept for the most part works. The fact is the robot is not going to quit after one day. 

 

One of the biggest costs of businesses is training. The higher the turn over the higher the training. It also sounds like this restaurant still has some humans in the kitchen. Automation is the future, its what happen in the Industrial revolution. Maybe this is the second industrial revolution. 

[TenThousand]

Can it flip people off? That's the most important thing.