And so it begins, Flippy the burger flipping robot starts work in California

[TidaLWaveZ]

My late cousin was killed by a burger flipping robot, I'll not stand for this!

[TacoSenpai]

14 hours ago, maartendc said:

Interesting point. I think what you say is true, as long as your country with a small population has a well-educated population that is going to benefit from the kinds of jobs that more automation will create: programmers, designers, engineers, mechanics, etc. etc.

 

Countries with a generally lower level of education will suffer indeed. I think most European countries will actually do quite well, because they invest a lot in education.
 

I fear for countries like the US, where education is expensive, and the amount of low-educated and easily automated jobs is very high.

 

I grew up in Belgium, and live in the US now. If I just look at US supermarkets versus European supermarkets for example, US supermarkets have about 2-3 times more employees than European ones: they have baggers, they have greeters, they have people collect the carts in the parking lots (instead of customers returning them), etc. etc. If all supermarkets go the way of the Amazon Go store... bigger problem for the US than it is for Europe. Sure, some supermarkets can distinguish themselves by still having "the human touch", but they won't be able to compete with Amazon supermarkets on price.

I think the European countries that have smaller populations and haven't taken it upon themselves to take in too many migrants will be ok.  Part of the problem here is many 1st world countries not just Europe mind you have made policies to bring in many migrants with the argument of low birth rates of the native population and needing workers for the exact same lower wage jobs we are  of the native populous which then in turn causes property values to bubble and having a massive surplus of unskilled labor.  What then becomes your justification for doing that when you have automation.  Now you have a real problem because that population is drawing on the countries already limited resources for infrastructure, welfare, schools you name it and now you have no apparent need for them. 

 

As far as supermarkets go I don't know about you but its already kinda getting there.  Every target or grocery store I walk into now has lanes of automated check out lanes and I find myself using them more often since the lines are shorter and people get through them faster.  What used to be 4 or 5 cashiers is now 1 technician on standby and 4 machines. 

[Morgan Everett]

Flippppyyy, flipppyyyy, flippppyyy the bush-burger-flipper!

[maartendc]

10 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this entire new story and it's follow ups were written entirely by AI? Which is a thing already btw.

 

In fact you probably wouldn't believe me but I am not an actual person but an advanced, experimental AI designed specifically to irritate and amuse you in equal parts but at different times.

You don't sound that advanced to me. No offence. Or can AI not be offended?

 

12 hours ago, Eaglerino said:

I wonder if this means

 

-Food won't be randomly good and randomly bad as often

-Nobody can spit in my food now

-Asking for minimum wage hike brought this on faster than otherwise

-The food will be even cheaper because they don't have to pay people to work there anymore

They will surely make sure the robot can spit in your food, for realism's sake.

[knightslugger]

9 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Not very practical imo, at least for now.

they spent $60,000 to take the spatula away from the guy who'd also put the burger on the griddle in the first place and who put the cheese on the burger, and assemble the burger in the wrapper, with lettuce and condiments.

 

what forward thinkers they are...

 

They didn't replace a worker, they replaced a TASK.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

they spent $60,000 to take the spatula away from the guy who'd also put the burger on the griddle in the first place and who put the cheese on the burger, and assemble the burger in the wrapper, with lettuce and condiments.

 

what forward thinkers they are...

 

They didn't replace a worker, they replaced a TASK.

Off the top of my head: any engineer would tell you I'd be cheaper to just create a small conveyor belt line system where the patties are cooked on both sides inside a moving conveyor timed exactly to come out cooked how you want them.

 

This isn't even something new at all: I've seen some Pizza ovens that work in exactly this way the employee just loads the pizza on one end, it very slowly moves horizontally through the oven and comes out just right on the other end.

 

Pretty sure those are less than 60k too btw.

[imreloadin]

Hopefully I can finally get burgers that are made correctly and that don't have to be reassembled every time I receive it. The people working fast food that are bitching about not making $15 an hour are the same people who can't even properly make a damn sandwich...I did it all through highschool, it's not hard people

[knightslugger]

Just now, imreloadin said:

Hopefully I can finally get burgers that are made correctly and that don't have to be reassembled every time I receive it. The people working fast food that are bitching about not making $15 an hour are the same people who can't even properly make a damn sandwich...I did it all through highschool, it's not hard people

the only thing this does is flip a burger and remove it once it's finished cooking.

[JoostinOnline]

9 hours ago, Sauron said:

I'm not saying they are like slaves, I'm saying you can't fault them for complaining about their position. And forced or not, their choices are that or unemployment, so...

 

No, their choices are work there, find work somewhere else, work for themselves, or unemployed.  I chose the "work for myself" option.  I don't make that much more than minimum wage, but I also don't complain about it.

 

This whole thing is beside the point.  When you can easily be replaced for something cheaper, it's better not to complain.  Those of us with brains knew McDonald's would go with kiosks if employees kept demanding a huge raise.  They flat out said it.  Employees demanded it anyway, and were replaced.

[imreloadin]

1 hour ago, knightslugger said:

the only thing this does is flip a burger and remove it once it's finished cooking.

Lame, guess I'll just have to keep putting up with the garbage of the workforce then until they can be completely replaced...

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Off the top of my head: any engineer would tell you I'd be cheaper to just create a small conveyor belt line system where the patties are cooked on both sides inside a moving conveyor timed exactly to come out cooked how you want them.

 

This isn't even something new at all: I've seen some Pizza ovens that work in exactly this way the employee just loads the pizza on one end, it very slowly moves horizontally through the oven and comes out just right on the other end.

 

Pretty sure those are less than 60k too btw.

That was my first thought, in fact a machine that makes hamburgers from the beginning to the end and custom would be easier to make than programing a traditional robot arm.

However they drummed up $14M so I figure they have an angle.

[Misanthrope]

Just now, mr moose said:

That was my first thought, in fact a machine that makes hamburgers from the beginning to the end and custom would be easier to make than programing a traditional robot arm.

However they drummed up $14M so I figure they have an angle.

Tru dat.

 

So looking at it from the other side, if I was a clever robot salesman I'd say "Look it costs you this much to renovate each location, this is a larger up-front investment but it pays off in the long run since you can deploy without heavy renovations to said locations"

 

I'm sure the math would eventually come up in favor of robot flipper eventually that way if they aim for like the big super chains.

[mr moose]

10 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Tru dat.

 

So looking at it from the other side, if I was a clever robot salesman I'd say "Look it costs you this much to renovate each location, this is a larger up-front investment but it pays off in the long run since you can deploy without heavy renovations to said locations"

 

I'm sure the math would eventually come up in favor of robot flipper eventually that way if they aim for like the big super chains.

They can probably replace staff one at a time and create a marketing interest to get people into the store too.

 

 

[Monkey Dust]

12 hours ago, asus killer said:

i get the job loss argument, but this is expected and happened time and time again in the past. The people that cared for the horses are gone, we have cars. I guess the robot industry will have a bloom, both building, programing and maintaining them. Of course it's not the same shoveling horse shit or driving/fixing a car, they need to learn a lot more skills to do it, but we survived.

Truck drivers will face a similar problem very soon. Education is increasingly important as low qualification, mindless jobs, will tend to be less and less in the future i guess.

The higher qualified jobs are far from safe either. Accountancy will be decimated by A.I, many fund managers in investment banks have already been replaced by A.I (the perils of receiving 6 and 7 figure bonuses I guess). A.I could also replace a lot of lawyers tasks, it could move in on doctors turf too. Programming, A.I will be able to do that too, a lot of engineering and architectural design as well. Pilots would be very close to losing their jobs already if you could convince the majority of air passengers to get on an unmanned plane.

 

The universal basic income is an interesting idea, and we will need something innovative to keep society together when human labour no longer has much value. I don't think previous leaps in technology leading to new jobs is a good guide for what is happening now, this time we are creating technology that can out think us and that leaves us with nowhere to go.

[Trik'Stari]

Hold onto your butts and property ladies and gentlemen.

 

There goes the economy.

[suicidalfranco]

something like this pizza vending machine would have made much more sense

from dough to baked without human assistance and since it's a vending machine it's also self service, no waiter needed. Now that's how you cut costs. (And this machine also makes pizza that are far closer to the real deal compared to the pies i see in the US try to pass themselves as pizza)

[kokakolia]

12 hours ago, knightslugger said:

they spent $60,000 to take the spatula away from the guy who'd also put the burger on the griddle in the first place and who put the cheese on the burger, and assemble the burger in the wrapper, with lettuce and condiments.

 

what forward thinkers they are...

 

They didn't replace a worker, they replaced a TASK.

Well, to me the future looks like the customer "works" for their stuff and then pays. I mean just look at "self-checkout" systems for groceries or airports. Why hire someone when the customer will gladly work for you for free, then give you money!?

 

The future to me looks like a salad bar next to a patty dispenser. Make your own burger then pay. 

[dizmo]

On 3/5/2018 at 2:03 PM, BluJay614 said:

Tell me, and be honest: do you really think getting rid of small/family businesses that can't afford to be paying people the higher minimum wage or have enough people staffed without overworking them when one expenditure is doubled?

 

I agree that the US Federal minimum wage is nowhere near enough to live on by yourself, but I have seen people group together and do it. A lot of the people that do aren't working just one job either.

 

You seem to forget the fact that when people make more money, the cost of living rises with it. When landlords see that they can charge more for rent because "they can afford it", they will raise the rent to match the increase in income. Raising the minimum wage is a bad idea, unless you wanna see the unemployment line grow and small businesses shut down. I'd love to see where you are getting your statistics concerning people's income.

 

I agree on that we have all seen automation coming, and that it creates more careers in the tech field(which makes me glad I'm getting into it). However, this also eliminates the human element, and the chance for younger people (like highschool students who want a part time job) to learn some work ethics and how to handle their own income. At the Job Corps center I'm currently at, we have a '50s style dinner we call The Red Door Café. I work there in the kitchen, partially to give myself something to do, but it also keeps me distracted from things that may be bothering me. When it comes to food, there is an element that comes from having your food made by someone who cares about the product they are pushing out, as compared to a machine or someone who doesn't give a crap. If nothing, it's teaching people how to cook, even to a limited extent, which is something that not everyone learns how to do at home. If you want to bring up the culinary school argument, almost all of them require at least 1 year of experience in a restaurant, and cost as much as most public collages.

It won't get rid of small and family businesses. This debate comes about every single time there's an increase in minimum wage, and small businesses are still there. Will they have to slightly alter the way they do business? Perhaps. But that's part of owning a business. You have to adapt to changing times. Minimum wage can't stay the same forever, inflation is very much a thing.

 

Well yeah, of course. With that logic they could just lower the minimum wage to $3/hr, and people can install multiple bunk beds per room.

They're still surviving, right?

 

That's not always true, at all. For example where I live the average wage is quite high, minimum wage is going up quite considerably, but housing remains very reasonable compared to other major cities. Then take Vancouver, where minimum wage is around $12/hr, but housing is ridiculously expensive. There are many many more variables than just wage in that. I think the main thing you're stuck on here is $15/hr minimum wage as a universal truth. It would have to be more regional, as some areas are just much cheaper to live in and don't necessitate a $15/hr wage. Others however, are more expensive and do. Also, when I think of $15/hr minimum wage I'm thinking about it in terms of where I live, which is not the United States; for the US, it would be closer to $12.

As for where I'm getting such stats, this article: http://www.macleans.ca/economy/money-economy/minimum-wage-in-canada-by-the-numbers/

50% of minimum wage earners are between 15 and 19 years of age.

 

It won't create nearly as many jobs as it gets rid of, and they're not going to be the same type of job; that's where the problem arises. Someone who was working at McDonald's isn't going to go right out and get a job as an automated machinery technician.

 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

It won't create nearly as many jobs as it gets rid of, and they're not going to be the same type of job; that's where the problem arises. Someone who was working at McDonald's isn't going to go right out and get a job as an automated machinery technician.

 

That's not how the job market changes through.   Usually it's a much slower process and people just stop working those jobs rather than sudden layoffs that leave entire workforce's unemployed. 

[mr moose]

It goes for an 1:44 but I really implore people watch it if you are interested/fear in where we are going.

[asus killer]

11 hours ago, Monkey Dust said:

The higher qualified jobs are far from safe either. Accountancy will be decimated by A.I, many fund managers in investment banks have already been replaced by A.I (the perils of receiving 6 and 7 figure bonuses I guess). A.I could also replace a lot of lawyers tasks, it could move in on doctors turf too. Programming, A.I will be able to do that too, a lot of engineering and architectural design as well. Pilots would be very close to losing their jobs already if you could convince the majority of air passengers to get on an unmanned plane.

 

The universal basic income is an interesting idea, and we will need something innovative to keep society together when human labour no longer has much value. I don't think previous leaps in technology leading to new jobs is a good guide for what is happening now, this time we are creating technology that can out think us and that leaves us with nowhere to go.

AI is a different problem. To some point AI could actually replace every human's job, no exceptions. Still considering that AI is around the corner is pretty optimistic.

Robots on the other hand have been around for decades now, this is something that was predictable, and long past due.

 

Still i agree with you. Maybe an utopia were people live on the beach drinking cocktails and the robots with advance AI do all the work. Jokes aside, this was something that people foresaw in the 60's.

[kokakolia]

4 hours ago, asus killer said:

AI is a different problem. To some point AI could actually replace every human's job, no exceptions. Still considering that AI is around the corner is pretty optimistic.

Robots on the other hand have been around for decades now, this is something that was predictable, and long past due.

 

Still i agree with you. Maybe an utopia were people live on the beach drinking cocktails and the robots with advance AI do all the work. Jokes aside, this was something that people foresaw in the 60's.

The Utopia will look more like Elysium and less like this. The majority will live in the slums on food stamps and the small elite will live in ultimate luxury...on a different planet built by...Tesla!? All hail Elon Musk...

[divito]

On 3/5/2018 at 2:33 PM, Technicolors said:

would be amazing to see this at mcdonalds or burger king. McDonalds near me already have a kiosk to order

McDonald's grills don't require flipping. Now I suppose a robot could take them off the grill and store them, but given the layout of the average McDonald's, each one would have to be custom and it'd cumbersome to do properly.

[dalekphalm]

23 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Off the top of my head: any engineer would tell you I'd be cheaper to just create a small conveyor belt line system where the patties are cooked on both sides inside a moving conveyor timed exactly to come out cooked how you want them.

 

This isn't even something new at all: I've seen some Pizza ovens that work in exactly this way the employee just loads the pizza on one end, it very slowly moves horizontally through the oven and comes out just right on the other end.

 

Pretty sure those are less than 60k too btw.

Cheaper, yes, but a conveyor belt that only cooks hamburgers can't be modified easily to do drastically different things.

18 hours ago, mr moose said:

That was my first thought, in fact a machine that makes hamburgers from the beginning to the end and custom would be easier to make than programing a traditional robot arm.

However they drummed up $14M so I figure they have an angle.

I think you two are focusing too much on the fact that this robot can only make burgers and nothing else.

 

It's capabilities will expand over time. The creators already said it could potentially chop veggies, put condiments on the burger, etc.

 

Think of this as a proof of concept. Version 2.0 of this robot may not even look the same, and may have much more capabilities.

[Theorak]

Someday we will even have the cow automated.

(If that would be better for the environment, I would actually be ok with it.)

 

It's no big step yet, robot's should and will do more then one task, I believe.