Microsoft announces the Surface Laptop - aimed at students

[Misanthrope]

9 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

IF you are a student

IF you buy it before december 31st

 

And for 1000$, for a laptop made by MS themselves, don't see how it can be resoanable to ship a cripled version of windows in it

The price point seems a bit baffling: I remember the windows starter or whatever when netbooks where fairly hip but the justification there was that well....not that much since it costs them nothing but they said it was to keep the price down which was fairly aggressive for netbooks.

 

Here though I'm pretty sure they can afford to put a full windows license, they just want to promote this stupid school windows version but not on an SKU that's actually cheap and makes sense.

[Castdeath97]

Why would I buy this over the stealth?

Why would I buy this over all the cheaper and lighter fanless ultra books? 

 

 

I'm just not convinced....

[Droidbot]

Just now, Castdeath97 said:

Why would I buy this over the stealth?

because it doesn't look like shit? 

Just now, Castdeath97 said:

Why would I buy this over all the cheaper and lighter fanless ultra books? 

No fucking idea

[AlTech]

46 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Yes, because adapters are great!

Everybody loves carrying 10 adapters with them.

(That's sarcasm by the way)

 

That's still pretty bad.

I'm not sure if trolling or not.

 

I've had ignorant people trip on my charger A LOT of times. If SurfaceConnect didn't exist then my laptop would have died at least 10 times.

13 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

The price point seems a bit baffling: I remember the windows starter or whatever when netbooks where fairly hip but the justification there was that well....not that much since it costs them nothing but they said it was to keep the price down which was fairly aggressive for netbooks.

 

Here though I'm pretty sure they can afford to put a full windows license, they just want to promote this stupid school windows version but not on an SKU that's actually cheap and makes sense.

 

26 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Well that might be true for your school. When I was at uni we did not have miniDP adapters everywhere.

Since this is a laptop allegedly designed for students, I think it should have everything a student can be expected to need.

 

Then they should have just put Windows 10 Pro on it to begin with.

Let's be honest here. Windows 10S is a gimped version of Windows 10. It's Windows 10 Pro minus a bunch of things. So anyone with half a brain will upgrade to Windows 10 Pro as soon as they get this computer (but then again, if they had half a brain they would probably not get it to begin with).

So why? Why deliberately make your product worse? I can't imagine it costs Microsoft something to put Windows 10 Pro on it. Especially not since the upgrade is free.

 

So it just becomes one more unnecessary step before you can use your computer. For something that people will argue has a justifiable price based on the "experience" you get, that is a massive drawback.

Neither you nor Misanthrope seem to understand the idea that this isn't meant to run Windows 10 Pro.

 

They specifically went out of their way to make Windows 10 S because they realized that Windows 10 S performs a hell of a lot better than Windows 10 and gives amazing battery life. This is not possible to replicate on Windows 10 Pro without disabling the functionality which separates S from Pro.

 

Windows 10 S gets amazing performance and battery life from not being tied to badly designed Win32 programs. If you don't like it then you probably aren't the target customer. Neither of you seem to appreciate the benefit of UWP and frankly this laptop is a UWP laptop. It's literally only meant to be use UWP apps. If you can't deal with UWP apps or Apps from the Windows Store then, again, this product is not for you.

 

If every Win32 app i used had a UWP equivalent with all the same features then I would switch to it on my Pro 4. UWP apps have minimal impact on systems because most of them don't access the registry, appdata or other stuff. They avoid all the really basic fundamental issues with Windows.

 

That is all.

 

Personally I would have named Windows 10 S differently and also changed some of the specs of the Surface Laptop and the price point.

[AlTech]

12 minutes ago, Castdeath97 said:

Why would I buy this over the stealth?

That's like saying "Why would you buy a Lexus instead of a Honda?".

 

The 2 devices are aimed at completely different people.

 

Surface Laptop is designed for College Students and Universitiy students.

 

Blade Stealth is designed for on the go gamers. If you overlap in one or more of these segments then pick the one which you are more of.

 

If you're more of a gamer than a student then pick the Stealth even though the Stealth is a terrible choice for a laptop. If you actually study and do stuff then ANY Surface Device would be good. Surface Laptop is expensive for what it is. It's a clamshell laptop going toe to toe with the MacBookAir..

12 minutes ago, Castdeath97 said:

Why would I buy this over all the cheaper and lighter fanless ultra books? 

 Again, this laptop is a premium personal laptop. Name all the laptop competition you think is in the premium personal laptop category and then I'll explain for each individual laptop whether the Surface is better or the laptop of your choice is better.

 

[Amr Benshatwan]

saw  a review from The Verge ... saying it will only run apps from windows store .

[randomhkkid]

8 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

It's worth noting that the configurations they are selling are the same price as the Pro 4 but the Pro 4 has a Surface Pen included when this doesn't.......

 

But the Pro 4 is effectively more expensive because $129 keyboard.

Different target markets in Microsoft's mind I guess. One is purely aimed at education whilst the other is more general purpose (SP4). Also once 2017 is up that extra $129 will shrink to $79 because of Windows 10 Pro upgrade, with the pen 'worth' $60 that's only a $19 difference.

 

Also may be an unpopular thought but I think the standard USB port is a smart move. USB-C is nice and is definitely the standard for the future; however, for now USB-A is far more ubiquitous and convenient for machines aimed at students.

[randomhkkid]

19 minutes ago, Amr Benshatwan said:

saw  a review from The Verge ... saying it will only run apps from windows store .

Congrats on the first post! Windows 10 S that the device ships with will only run apps from the store, these include specially packaged Windows desktop applications but the majority of them will be the UWP apps. The device can be upgraded to Windows 10 Pro which can run any app.

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

They specifically went out of their way to make Windows 10 S because they realized that Windows 10 S performs a hell of a lot better than Windows 10 and gives amazing battery life. This is not possible to replicate on Windows 10 Pro without disabling the functionality which separates S from Pro.

<sarcasm>secret</sarcasm> menu to improve your battery life on windows since vista

 

 

[AlTech]

8 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

<sarcasm>secret</sarcasm> menu to improve your battery life on windows since vista

 

 

Technically it is secret cos not all Devices are able to use those settings out of the box......

[atrash]

8 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

Except macOS can actually run on lower specs.  MS telemetryware needs 1.5Ghz and 3.5GB ram of system resources alone, you get whats left over.

My Core M3 SP4 with 4gb ram disagrees with you but whatever...


I actually really like the look of it. Very slick and premium looking. Oh if you haven't touched alcantara yet, you will absolutely love it.

But I do agree with the majority here that the pricing is a bit off (RIP people outside US) but hey it's a Surface brand laptop. Microsoft can put that price and people will still buy it because it's a 'premium' product (And I have a SP4 myself). Now it's up to the other manufacturers to try and emulate/copy/get inspired with this Surface laptop and maybe do better one perhaps? Stop producing shitty plastic laptops with shitty hinges and display etc. Try and better this one. To some people,specs don't mean everything if stuffs doesn't work as they should and breaks easily.

 

 

[Castdeath97]

2 hours ago, Droidbot said:

because it doesn't look like shit? 

No fucking idea

Imho the stealth doesn't look too bad (as long as you don't go crazy with the RGB keyboard that is!)

 

 

 

[Droidbot]

Just now, Castdeath97 said:

Imho the stealth doesn't look too bad (as long as you don't go crazy with the RGB keyboard that is!)

 

 

 

The logo on the outside makes you look like a gamery idiot everywhere

Imho I'd rather a Xiaomi Mi Book Air 13" or 12.5" than this or the Stealth - it's understated, looks really nice.

[Castdeath97]

13 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

The logo on the outside makes you look like a gamery idiot everywhere

Imho I'd rather a Xiaomi Mi Book Air 13" or 12.5" than this or the Stealth - it's understated, looks really nice.

Nah just stick a sticker on or something

[Teddy07]

I would consider buying it for maybe 50% of the current price. Sorry but I as a student know better things to do with 1000+ €

[Amr Benshatwan]

Just now, Teddy07 said:

I would consider buying it for maybe 50% of the current price. Sorry but I as a student know better things to do with 1000+ €

or u can buy something more cheaper and make it run linux distro and do basic stuff  

[LAwLz]

I see a lot of people justify the drawbacks of this product by saying "it's for students!" and that got me thinking. Why is this "for students" exactly? What specific features makes this so good for students?

 

The price? For a student you want the price to be as low as possible. This is really expensive so if anything this is a reason why it isn't for students.

 

The locked down nature of the OS? I can tell you straight away that this would not work for a lot of uni courses I have taken, nor would it work for a lot of courses my friends have taken. A lot of students, especially those in computer related fields, need proper programs. Programs that don't exist in UWP form. So again, this is something that makes it not suitable fo students.

 

The ports? Well it lacks a lot of ports students might need, such as VGA for plugging into projectors. The lack of ports can also be an issue for people who study for example networking, since they will need an Ethernet port, a port for their com adapter, and possibly other things too. So in terms of ports this is not really specially tailored for students either. I mean, I don't think any student would go "I need to only have 1 USB port. 2 is just too many and it ruins my workflow!".

So again, this does not seem designed for students.

 

Is it very powerful so that computer science majors can compile large projects on it? Maybe, if they want to wait for a while. Can art students run their video editing software on it? Maybe, but not any better than other laptops in the same price range. Can networking students run their virtual environment in it? Nope.

 

So why is this soooo good for students? Can anyone actually point out a single thing this has which students in particular go "yes, this is a top priority for students and only students"?

[Guest]

These aren't designed for students - they're designed for IT departments to deliver to education markets. 

 

The difference is that a student buys a device to do what they want to do. An IT department delivers a device to achieve certain things. By having only applications delivered by the Windows Store, it forces only a select few apps to be able to be installed. Through Intune, the device can be managed and through Windows Azure AD join, you can bring that management together. Overall it's actually quite an intelligent solution Microsoft are deploying. 

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 Can anyone actually point out a single thing this has which students in particular go "yes, this is a top priority for students and only students"?

It goes well with turtle necks and suspenders.

 

Seriously,  there are more courses in things that don't require computing power but do encounter an awful lot of traveling and moving around like Nursing, education, field sciences etc.  These students only need something that can essentially word process and email, but has to be as small as possible, last forever on a battery and not be a tablet.  I have seen Many students over the years with $2500 ultrathin laptops (overkill for their needs) but they want highest quality and smallest usable package.   

[Droidbot]

25 minutes ago, Amr Benshatwan said:

or u can buy something more cheaper and make it run linux distro and do basic stuff  

Lots of stuff missing for a lot of people, hence why Linux has never really headed into the mainstream

7 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

These aren't designed for students - they're designed for IT departments to deliver to education markets. 

 

The difference is that a student buys a device to do what they want to do. An IT department delivers a device to achieve certain things. By having only applications delivered by the Windows Store, it forces only a select few apps to be able to be installed. Through Intune, the device can be managed and through Windows Azure AD join, you can bring that management together. Overall it's actually quite an intelligent solution Microsoft are deploying. 

This. Port your apps to Centennial, deliver them via the Windows Store to devices, lock the store, and through Intune manage the whole show with remote installs onto clients. 

This is MS's 'Chromebooks, suck my ass' move. 

[LAwLz]

5 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

These aren't designed for students - they're designed for IT departments to deliver to education markets. 

 

The difference is that a student buys a device to do what they want to do. An IT department delivers a device to achieve certain things. By having only applications delivered by the Windows Store, it forces only a select few apps to be able to be installed. Through Intune, the device can be managed and through Windows Azure AD join, you can bring that management together. Overall it's actually quite an intelligent solution Microsoft are deploying. 

That sounds a lot more logical than "it's designed for students". But all the things you said just apply to Windows 10 S, not the actual hardware they are selling.

 

 

2 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

If every Win32 app i used had a UWP equivalent with all the same features then I would switch to it on my Pro 4. UWP apps have minimal impact on systems because most of them don't access the registry, appdata or other stuff. They avoid all the really basic fundamental issues with Windows.

The thing is that you can't make Win32 programs into a "true" UWP programs (yes I know there are wrappers but that's still a Win32 program inside an UWP program).

UWP is just not able to replace Win32. Win32 is a fully loaded toolbox while UWP is a blowup hammer that makes funny noises.

 

 

I think Anandtech put it pretty well in their article:

Quote

The odd part about UWP and the cross-platform push that Microsoft has been doing for years, is that UWP could have been focused more on the desktop years ago, and improved to the point where it makes sense to use it on the desktop over older frameworks. But that push has never happened, despite some improvements to UWP.

 

 

Desktop has been held back by old app frameworks for years. Devices continue to improve, and older applications struggle to take advantage of High DPI displays, wide color gamuts, and more. UWP could have been the solution to this, but it was never sold as the solution to anything on the desktop. In fact, its limitations on the desktop are clear. Windows 10 brought the ability to run UWPs in a window on the desktop, but UWP is still treated as a mobile-first app platform, with all of the restrictions of a mobile device which is hampered by performance and power.

 

Ideas that were spawned in the days of the push to mobile need to be abandoned, or at least add in options for developers to unlock more capabilities on the desktop. With 32 GB of memory in my desktop, I don’t really need apps frozen in the background when they aren’t the active window. With a desktop plugged into power, there is no reason a UWP can’t keep running all the time. Until desktop (and this includes laptops) becomes the focus of UWPs, the limited capabilities will restrict the apps that are brought to this framework, which means any benefits they would bring, such as touch support, share contract support, and high DPI capabilities, are going to be ignored for the more capable older frameworks.

 

UWP is not designed for desktops. It is designed for smartphones. It sucks ass for desktops. I really don't understand how anyone who does more than browse facebook on their desktop, and has some basic understanding of programming and the framework will look at UWP and say "yes, this is a suitable replacement for Win32".

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

That sounds a lot more logical than "it's designed for students". But all the things you said just apply to Windows 10 S, not the actual hardware they are selling.

This product is simply the launch pad for it. I've already had a webinar with DDLS (major Microsoft trainer) today who emphasised the importance of MCSA AND MCSE for Windows 10 S moving forward. 

 

[LAwLz]

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It goes well with turtle necks and suspenders.

Yeah, but Macbooks goes even better with that. Or are Macbooks too mainstream now?

 

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Seriously,  there are more courses in things that don't require computing power but do encounter an awful lot of traveling and moving around like Nursing, education, field sciences etc.  These students only need something that can essentially word process and email, but has to be as small as possible, last forever on a battery and not be a tablet.  I have seen Many students over the years with $2500 ultrathin laptops (overkill for their needs) but they want highest quality and smallest usable package.   

Well I don't really see why "it's thin and light, with a good battery life, assuming you don't run any decent programs on it" makes it specially aimed at students though. I think those are qualities everyone wants from a laptop.

There are plenty of other laptops which may be slightly bigger, or weigh slightly more, but are cheaper, and/or have other benefits which I would recommend long before I recommended this.

 

But I still don't understand why this is specially aimed at students. I know Microsoft said it was, but like with their phones it seems to me like they slapped the "aimed at X" there so that their fanboys can go "it's not targeted at you so shut up!" as soon as someone brings up legitimate criticism.

 

 

It just seems like the people who buy this either buy it for the brand (as in, fanboys), get some special deal from Microsoft so the price isn't horrible (like a school's IT department) or for some reason want something that is exactly that big and with that exact weight.

 

The priorities you need to have in order to buy this just seems so incredibly skewed here that I just don't think anyone who buys this will buy it because of objective reasons. To me means it is objectively a bad product.

 

 

 

Just now, Windspeed36 said:

This product is simply the launch pad for it. I've already had a webinar with DDLS (major Microsoft trainer) today who emphasised the importance of MCSA AND MCSE for Windows 10 S moving forward.

I hope it doesn't take off. I am really worried this is Microsoft's plan to phase out Win32. They already tried once with Windows RT and luckily for consumers that failed.

They are hellbent on getting people to use UWP.

[Princess Luna]

These are rather for rich family college students trying to be edgy by buying one over the Macbook, real students with low income are much better off with an i5-u cheapo Acer notebook.

[mr moose]

Just now, LAwLz said:

Yeah, but Macbooks goes even better with that. Or are Macbooks too mainstream now?

 

 

 

Way to mainstream, apple is sooooo yesterday.

 

If they are truly 14 hours on the battery with an i5 and super slim for under $1000 then that to me is aimed at students.  Weight, size and battery life makes a huge difference to your day I.E if you are going from hospital to campus to consulting rooms etc.  Most laptops in this general category are over $1000, especially if you get something with a better reputation for quality or better warranty.  

 

Obviously it's not for everyone, if I get another laptop it won't be one of these, but I can see the place they have.