Ryzen Awesome True Look

[Misanthrope]

27 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

I have no idea what you are on about...

We are comparing the 1700 and 7700K?

They both cost about the same?

I am arguing in favor of the 1700 because actual gamers don't use their PC in the same way a reviewer does benchmarks.

You are not explicitly saying in which way gamers use their PC to benefit though. This is a strictly apologetic argument here, not any inherent value for choosing the Ryzen 1700.

[Vode]

34 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Your own words:

from this it certainly didn't look like you were specifically referring to situations where low res benchmarks are used as the ONLY evidence or anything like that, and you didn't clarify in your further posts.

 

Now, aside from the 8350 (which got better WAY too late for it to make any difference) every other example you made (on gpus by the way, which are a different matter entirely) was already a good product for its price when it was launched. And while I think that overall ryzen is a good product, it's not very competitive in the gaming market.

I clarified in my following posts. They are not worthless obviously but... -> "see my other posts"

[Misanthrope]

5 minutes ago, Jahramika said:

If you watched the video he showed you that in BF.

That's 1 game. How many others? How many vs the literal thousands available today and in the near future in which it looses to the 7700k? 

 

I am not a big proponent of buying hardware for a single game but if someone puts that much value into EA by all means.

[Vode]

7 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

Yo MAN...check this out ok...EVEN leaving the whole amd FX crap out...

Please check your facts before you make any baseless claims. Thank you good sir.

 

 

[alexcheetah]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Did you seriously just post a video comparing the pentium to an i5 when we were talking about athlons? Do you realize the i5 was 3 times more expensive?

 

Please read the posts you quote, it will save everyone's time and sanity.

We were not comparing athlons were were comparing dual cores with no ht vs quad cores.

[Sauron]

10 minutes ago, alexcheetah said:

We were not comparing athlons were were comparing dual cores with no ht vs quad cores.

wrong, I specifically mentioned the athlon. Besides "quad core" is a meaningless stat if you don't reference a specific cpu.

[alexcheetah]

Just now, Sauron said:

wrong, I specifically mentioned the athlon. Besides "quad core" is a meaningless stat if you don't reference a specific cpu.

Whatever keep changing the facts if it suits your needs I won't stop you.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, alexcheetah said:

Whatever keep changing the facts if it suits your needs I won't stop you.

just read the posts... you're making a fool of yourself. This is exactly what I said:

Quote

The athlon x4 line is good for the price, but don't delude yourself into thinking they are somehow far superior to the pentium k - where there is a real difference it's quite small.

 

[Prysin]

7 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

Yo MAN...check this out ok...EVEN leaving the whole amd FX crap out...

this is his main slide for the ''NOW PERFORMANCE IN GAMES'' whatever ok...check this out

Since when the multicore intel scrap chip beat the 7700K in games by 9%?!

Since when the 4770K is 28% slower than a 7700K?!

since when the 7600K is 8% nfaster than the 4770K (ESPECIALLY IF THE MULTICORE SCRAP ARE FASTER THAN 7700K...BS RIGHT)

since when the 2500K is 42% SLOWER than the 7600K (there is less than 25% IPC difference between them)

 

This guy is BULLSHIT...he look at BULLSHIT reviews from BULLSHIT websites and then post a BULLSHIT video about it...WAKE UP SON.

 

i was going to make a serious reply. But i couldnt stop laughing from your hillarious panting skills. My only critique is that it needs more crayons.

[Prysin]

@i_build_nanosuits

here, have a free motivational image. It's on the house.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

What a bunch of fucking nonsense "Ryzen is great for gaming, sure it looses to gaming centric CPUs like the 7770k but it's main competition are workstation CPUs and it wins against those!....henceforth, gaming!" Can't even finish watching.

The video is better than the people posting it  I mean, it makes several interesting points that are worth considering, and I take from it an overall invitation to think in depth about what we test, how, which conclusions to derive, and refrain from voodoo IT (the belief that CPUs can be arbitrarily good at some things and bad at others without further need of explanation), rather than as a "source" to "prove" that it "rrruuulezzz" or "SUX".

 

Having said that, there are a few debatable points, and other plain wrong claims. The most salient that comes to my mind is about CPU utilization: I've seen several times already, in both youtube and the forum, that people discuss CPU utilization while overlooking the misleading information we get from  HT/SMT enabled CPUs in that regard.

[Vode]

19 minutes ago, Prysin said:

@i_build_nanosuits

here, have a free motivational image. It's on the house.

nice b8 m8

[Prysin]

4 minutes ago, Vode said:

nice b8 m8

shhh, you saw nothing.

[Misanthrope]

28 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The video is better than the people posting it  I mean, it makes several interesting points that are worth considering, and I take from it an overall invitation to think in depth about what we test, how, which conclusions to derive, and refrain from voodoo IT (the belief that CPUs can be arbitrarily good at some things and bad at others without further need of explanation), rather than as a "source" to "prove" that it "rrruuulezzz" or "SUX".

 

Having said that, there are a few debatable points, and other plain wrong claims. The most salient that comes to my mind is about CPU utilization: I've seen several times already, in both youtube and the forum, that people discuss CPU utilization while overlooking the misleading information we get from  HT/SMT enabled CPUs in that regard.

Yeah I acknowledged earlier that I did not have the patience because it was hard to understand him due to the accent (just not used to it tbh) and thus I was hasty in my dismissal and probably misinterpreted the beginning part I watched.

[SoloDolo]

I dont understand why everyone wants Ryzen to be more than it is. It is a great CPU for Workstations and can game pretty well. However, its loses to its closest competitor in gaming.

 

 I love gaming but I cant afford a pure FPS machine and a workstation. So for me the 1800x is exactly what I needed. Once patches come out Ryzen will have less issues but faster cores with high IPC are the way of gaming now and the future. Even if games switch and go towards more cores they will still demand higher clock speeds just with more cores. By the time that happens AMD will have another architecture they hype behind all means and people lose their shit over. 

 

Anyways, the point is that Ryzen is superior for the price to performance against the Broadwell-E line up. However, it still comes up short in gaming even against an OC'd 2600k. Yet, if you game at 1440p or higher resolutions the difference becomes less noticeable. 

[79wjd]

3 hours ago, SoloDolo said:

I dont understand why everyone wants Ryzen to be more than it is. It is a great CPU for Workstations and can game pretty well. However, its loses to its closest competitor in gaming.

Because Lisa Su herself described Ryzen (specifically an R7) as the perfect gaming CPU. 

[ivan134]

3 hours ago, SoloDolo said:

I dont understand why everyone wants Ryzen to be more than it is. It is a great CPU for Workstations and can game pretty well. However, its loses to its closest competitor in gaming.

 

 I love gaming but I cant afford a pure FPS machine and a workstation. So for me the 1800x is exactly what I needed. Once patches come out Ryzen will have less issues but faster cores with high IPC are the way of gaming now and the future. Even if games switch and go towards more cores they will still demand higher clock speeds just with more cores. By the time that happens AMD will have another architecture they hype behind all means and people lose their shit over. 

 

Anyways, the point is that Ryzen is superior for the price to performance against the Broadwell-E line up. However, it still comes up short in gaming even against an OC'd 2600k. Yet, if you game at 1440p or higher resolutions the difference becomes less noticeable. 

What's your opinion on biostar's build quality?

[Teddy07]

6 hours ago, plus said:

Stockfish and Komodo look promising on Ryzen:

1

I am not a chess player but i watched recently a few videos how chess programs calculate their moves. It is really amazing

[Techstorm970]

This whole thread is confusing...

 

[MageTank]

7 hours ago, Prysin said:

you need to post more now that Patrick is gone. You're definetively the second best source of lulz on this forum.

The irony is, you act more like Patrick now than anyone on this forum. You even pretend to have told me things I already knew, then fail to cite the sources (even when I successfully brought up a thread that is several months old, within minutes). You also nitpick peoples posts and go for the low hanging fruit. That's amateur hour sir. Now, for the topic...

 

This entire thread is full of people arguing the same point, and they don't even know it. "Running low resolutions with high-end GPU isn't an accurate representation of the average user experience". This is true. "Running low resolutions with a high end GPU helps better show a CPU bottleneck", also true. One way isn't better than the other, which is why we do both. We run the low resolutions with a GPU that will not bottleneck a CPU, to compare CPU against CPU with the least amount of variables as physically possible. We then do tests in what we believe to be "average use case" and then compare those results. Is the Ryzen chips capable "gaming" CPU's? I'd personally say so, but it will depend on your entire setup. If you are going to be running multi-GPU, you are likely going to want something a little faster to feed those GPU's, or at least run a higher resolution alongside those GPU's. However, for any single-card GPU, it should still be perfectly fine for meeting the needs of most current displays. 

 

I have my own personal gripes with Ryzen, but not because it's a "bad" gaming CPU. It's a lackluster overclocker and it's IMC is in a really bad shape at the moment. I see Sager/Clevo laptops with more memory overclocking options than Ryzen. The fact that both the C6H and X370 Taichi only have 6 ram options to change (tCL, tRCRDD, tRCWRD, tRPT, and tRAS) is more than enough to scare any enthusiast. In fact, if you want to change your tertiary timings, you have to do it blindfolded by lowering DRAM ratio and increasing the reference clock. Even then, you are completely at mercy to the ram gods to hope that A: it posts, and B: it trains properly. The only thing worse than inherently slow ram, is poorly trained ram. Oh, let's also not ignore the rounding issue. 

Quote

If DRAM Ratio is 2666 or higher TCL will be rounded to nearest even higher number
(i.e. TCL=15 → 16)

Oh, and it hates multi-rank kits. The more ranks you have, the lower your memory clock speed ceiling. I have no hope for a bios fixing a mistake of this size. Sorry for derailing yet another Zen thread with my IMC complaints, but the more I research it, the worse it gets. 

[Prysin]

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

The irony is, you act more like Patrick now than anyone on this forum. You even pretend to have told me things I already knew, then fail to cite the sources (even when I successfully brought up a thread that is several months old, within minutes). You also nitpick peoples posts and go for the low hanging fruit. That's amateur hour sir. Now, for the topic...

 

This entire thread is full of people arguing the same point, and they don't even know it. "Running low resolutions with high-end GPU isn't an accurate representation of the average user experience". This is true. "Running low resolutions with a high end GPU helps better show a CPU bottleneck", also true. One way isn't better than the other, which is why we do both. We run the low resolutions with a GPU that will not bottleneck a CPU, to compare CPU against CPU with the least amount of variables as physically possible. We then do tests in what we believe to be "average use case" and then compare those results. Is the Ryzen chips capable "gaming" CPU's? I'd personally say so, but it will depend on your entire setup. If you are going to be running multi-GPU, you are likely going to want something a little faster to feed those GPU's, or at least run a higher resolution alongside those GPU's. However, for any single-card GPU, it should still be perfectly fine for meeting the needs of most current displays. 

 

I have my own personal gripes with Ryzen, but not because it's a "bad" gaming CPU. It's a lackluster overclocker and it's IMC is in a really bad shape at the moment. I see Sager/Clevo laptops with more memory overclocking options than Ryzen. The fact that both the C6H and X370 Taichi only have 6 ram options to change (tCL, tRCRDD, tRCWRD, tRPT, and tRAS) is more than enough to scare any enthusiast. In fact, if you want to change your tertiary timings, you have to do it blindfolded by lowering DRAM ratio and increasing the reference clock. Even then, you are completely at mercy to the ram gods to hope that A: it posts, and B: it trains properly. The only thing worse than inherently slow ram, is poorly trained ram. Oh, let's also not ignore the rounding issue. 

Oh, and it hates multi-rank kits. The more ranks you have, the lower your memory clock speed ceiling. I have no hope for a bios fixing a mistake of this size. Sorry for derailing yet another Zen thread with my IMC complaints, but the more I research it, the worse it gets. 

while your allegations against me is well, your opinion, i think you'll see that this is who i am, and who iv'e always been. Long before patrick made himself truly infamous. Now, my rethoric has gotten sharper as my patience with ignorant or biaed people wear out, that is why i am close to gettin permabanned. You reap what you sow.

 

As for the post i was talking about, i am still looking. Unlike patrick, i posted A LOT, all the time, rather then in large bursts. Thus i got a lot to sift through, and the LTT search engine isnt exactly, great, So it takes time. Now, your impatience is not my issue.

[Nena Trinity]

14 hours ago, Vode said:

TLDR

 

Let the Windows thread sheduler be fixed (Linux had a pach day one...)

 

720p benches are worthless as an indicator of future performance

This!

 

Edit: And for the rest on the F-83X0 v i5-2500K death-match train, the FX wins if the game is modern enough to fully use all 8-threads duh! Note that use and fully utilize is not the same thing just look at GTA V, it heavily favors 1-core when certain settings are enabled!

[MageTank]

7 hours ago, Prysin said:

while your allegations against me is well, your opinion, i think you'll see that this is who i am, and who iv'e always been. Long before patrick made himself truly infamous. Now, my rethoric has gotten sharper as my patience with ignorant or biaed people wear out, that is why i am close to gettin permabanned. You reap what you sow.

 

As for the post i was talking about, i am still looking. Unlike patrick, i posted A LOT, all the time, rather then in large bursts. Thus i got a lot to sift through, and the LTT search engine isnt exactly, great, So it takes time. Now, your impatience is not my issue.

I knew you for quite some time. Even talked to you on Skype. You were never like this. You are simply trying to fill a void you cannot fill. You are starting to antagonize people for the most petty reasons, and turn random posts into political memes when you have nothing of value to offer them. Whether or not this is my opinion of you, I can easily offer evidence to back the claims I make about you. You don't exactly cover your tracks, lol.

 

As for the searching difficulties, try having a better memory. I use google, not the forum search engine, and type "LinusTechTips.com MageTank Ryzen IMC" and get the results I need on the first page. 

[SoloDolo]

15 hours ago, ivan134 said:

What's your opinion on biostar's build quality?

Tbh this is my first Biostar but this one seems to be really well done. Asrock and ASUS would have probably have been a "safer" choice but I have had issues with both of those companies boards in the past despite normally having positive experiences with the,. So from what I have seen it seems like a solid choice that is competitive. It also came with a free M.2 SSD which is pretty meh but hey its free so ill take it.

 

 Now the bios is another matter and much more complicated than it should be for overclocking. This really annoyed me.  It took me a couple of calls with their support to figure things out. 

[Simon771]

Ryzen was just released ... Windows and other OS developers haven't seen anything like that before. Same goes for app developers.

So there is still plenty of headroom for optimisation. And sure it came with RAM problem, but that will all be fixed soon.

 

I'm confident that Ryzen will be great after 2 months when more games/apps/OS/BIOS are optimised.