Android beats Apple in ditching the headphone port on smartphones

[dalekphalm]

11 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

I think they're on to something.  We do need to get rid of the 3.5mm jack.  We need a quarter inch plug instead.  That way it's thicker and these idiots can fill more batteries inside.  The only plausible reason I can see them wanting to get rid of 3.5mm jacks, would be, aside from them -really- wanting a phone with the thickness of a dime, is for them to be able to claim that the age of the 3.5mm jack is over.  It is a plug from the 1870's, but I've not seen much of an alternative in lightning or USB-C so far, and this is one hell of a change they want to create--but if they start this, then the headphone makers will catch up and eventually the rest.

Still, they should just go to quarter-inch and claim more resilience.

It might be a plug from the 1870's, but have we seen anything better? The problem with using USB-C (or lightning) is that in time, that port will change too - eventually we'll have USB-H and Lightning Mk2, and eventually backwards compatibility will be lost.

 

But a good pair of headphones lasts years - decades even. My pair of HD598's outlasted my last phone (HTC HD7) and will no doubt outlast my current phone too (Lumia 830) and probably the phone after that, and the phone after that, and so on.

[cesrai]

4 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

I support removing the headphone jack for a few reasons:

 

I've had my Iphone 6S for a while now, and it has one of the worst battery lives of an Iphone, ever, due to the 3D touch and better processor. This made it essentially mandatory for a heavy user such as myself to use a battery case, which increases the total battery capacity from 1715 mAh to 5665mAh. The only problem is that this case obstructs the 3.5 mm jack, requiring you to use a special adapter I really don't want to carry around everywhere. So I bought a $50 set of Bluetooth headphones, which last 5-6 hours on a single charge and deliver a full range, decent sound. They're lightweight, robust and rarely, if ever, have connection issues.

 

It's been a great user experience, and I totally understand the motivation that LeEco & Apple have behind their design choice not to include a headphone jack. My point is that if the Iphone 7 doesn't have a 3.5 mm jack, the average consumer is likely going to be perfectly content using whatever included wireless solution Apple provides, and power users such as myself are likely going to be using battery cases that obstruct the 3.5 mm jack anyways. 

 

Many people are missing the point here, as with the Macbook air; yes, there's only one port. Yes, it would be terrible to try and use all your existing wired peripherals on a single port. But that's not what the Macbook air and potentially the Iphone 7 are designed for - Apple intends you to use wireless keyboards, mice, headphones. You're supposed to use the cloud or wireless hard drives to fulfill the job of transferring files. Now you may personally prefer wired peripherals, and that's fine. It's just that consumer electronics are trending to become more wireless, and these design choices reflect that.

You mean the regular Macbook ? The one with one USB-C port ?

[CommandMan7]

2 minutes ago, cesrai said:

You mean the regular Macbook ? The one with one USB-C port ?

yeah, oops...

[Vivilacqua1]

*facepalm*

 

*Shouts from the top of the mountain* Not everything's about thinness!

[Sauron]

I hope this fails so hard that no company will dare try it for the next 20 years.

 

On April 20, 2016 at 0:03 PM, dalekphalm said:

It might be a plug from the 1870's, but have we seen anything better? The problem with using USB-C (or lightning) is that in time, that port will change too - eventually we'll have USB-H and Lightning Mk2, and eventually backwards compatibility will be lost.

 

But a good pair of headphones lasts years - decades even. My pair of HD598's outlasted my last phone (HTC HD7) and will no doubt outlast my current phone too (Lumia 830) and probably the phone after that, and the phone after that, and so on.

Not to mention that the usb port is also used for charging and pretty much any other thing that needs to interface with the phone. Why make it unusable while listening to music? At least they could have put in a second port.

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

Apple ditching headphone jack? SMH

 

I believe Oppo R5 and Vivo X5 Max already did that with their phones... Like a year ago. Only way to get audio is through USB DAC

 

Sorry Apple.

[zMeul]

they are idiots!

can you connect the phone to a PC or a charger and the earbuds at the same time? no!

 

not to mention the upcoming USB DRM policy that would make current accessories for USB type C obsolete

[YamiYukiSenpai]

3 hours ago, Squirrel724 said:

*cough* Oppo R5 *cough*

I totally forgot about that phone.  Unless I'm wrong, it's successor brought back the headphone jack.

[dragosudeki]

3 hours ago, CommandMan7 said:

snip

You're completely disproving your side with your own points.

1. One of the reasons they are getting rid of the headphone jack is to make the phone thinner. You already point out that battery life is a problem and you improve it by putting a case on it, which makes the phone thicker. Therefore if phones were just thicker and had better battery life initially, you wouldn't have a single problem with battery cases obstructing any port at all would you?

2. You mention that the alternative is that you can get a wireless headphone. For those caring about sound quality, those kinds of headphones (or IEMs) will be more expensive than just getting a wired one. We're going to have battery life problems with our wireless headphones, which you already mentioned is a pain on your phone. Wireless only really adds more trouble, since now you have to carry around all types of charging cables. If there was a single, portable charger available to charge all the devices you ever need at the same time, then wireless would definitely be better, but there is still the problem of the battery losing its capacity overtime.

[Mew]

4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Not everything Apple does is good or right or genius. Which, I think, is his point. Removing the 3.5mm jack, I think, is stupid. The phone is already thin enough. Aesthetically speaking, making a thinner phone doesn't really give you anything more, in my opinion.

Apparently the phone is more than thick enough to accommodate a 3.5mm jack, they just didn't want to include it.

[NickTheMajin]

I'm all for removing the headphone jack if it will force more headphone manufacturers to produce headphones with amps built into them to take advantage of the lightning or USB C ports. 

[suicidalfranco]

great price, great spec, average design, shit decision on the headphone jack

[suicidalfranco]

13 minutes ago, NickTheMajin said:

I'm all for removing the headphone jack if it will force more headphone manufacturers to produce headphones with amps built into them to take advantage of the lightning or USB C ports. 

yeah! why have self powered headphone with DAC when they can just suck up the phones already small battery

/sarcasm

[Arty]

4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

But why limit to just one? You can have both USB-C and 3.5mm. You don't need to choose between them.

 

Then you have both faster charging AND wide compatibility with audio peripherals. Not to mention it means you can charge your device and listen to music at the same time without the need for any breakout cables.

or even better

2 type C ports. 

 

 

if Type C became the standard for everything on all platforms. That would be great.

 

no need for type B (printer) or TBH even A.

Just Put C on everything.

 

[goodtofufriday]

"Chinese company too cheap to include headphone jack"

[dalekphalm]

30 minutes ago, NickTheMajin said:

I'm all for removing the headphone jack if it will force more headphone manufacturers to produce headphones with amps built into them to take advantage of the lightning or USB C ports. 

I don't understand this - what benefit would there be to Headphones by including an integrated DAC/Amp? The headphones would need to be powered (either via battery - fucking yuck - or by the phone itself - hello low battery - and yes, I realize analog headphones do consume power, but it'll require more power if we need to cram a DAC and/or Amp in there too).

 

Also, the quality of the DAC and Amp would vary wildly per headphone manufacturer. Cheap headphones are going to sound even shittier, since the manufacturer will now have to cram a DAC/Amp into the price of the headphones.

 

I'd be much happier if phone manufacturers just put a decent DAC (Some phones do already), and an integrated headphone Amp (Which, honestly, only higher end headphones usually need anyway, low power/cheap ones usually won't benefit from an Amp) into the phone itself.

 

And I'm sure as hell not replacing my HD598's - and they aren't even "that expensive" compared to some headphones. So I'd have to go out and buy some adapter that is likely going to be even bulkier than if it was just a 3.5mm jack.

 

I really see no benefit of USB-C/Lightning Audio on a phone, when 3.5mm is the international standard and works just fine. Changing something without a benefit really doesn't sound good to me - and the phones are thin enough that "making it thinner" is simply not a benefit in my eyes.

13 minutes ago, Arty said:

or even better

2 type C ports. 

 

 

if Type C became the standard for everything on all platforms. That would be great.

 

no need for type B (printer) or TBH even A.

Just Put C on everything.

 

Why have 2 USB-C connectors? What else would you use 2 of them for, besides powering and/or tethering the phone + headphones? 1x USB-C + 1x 3.5mm seems like the ideal combination to me.

 

On other devices, having USB-C as the new standard makes sense, replacing Type B, and possibly Type A as well - I get that. But 2x USB-C ports and no 3.5mm jack on a phone? I don't see the benefit.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, biggiebody said:

I know a lot of companies like to follow Apple after they do something, but they don't have to follow everything.....

Usually apple announces features that have been on android for years, lol damn  apple sheeples, 

[CommandMan7]

1 hour ago, dragosudeki said:

You're completely disproving your side with your own points.

1. One of the reasons they are getting rid of the headphone jack is to make the phone thinner. You already point out that battery life is a problem and you improve it by putting a case on it, which makes the phone thicker. Therefore if phones were just thicker and had better battery life initially, you wouldn't have a single problem with battery cases obstructing any port at all would you?

2. You mention that the alternative is that you can get a wireless headphone. For those caring about sound quality, those kinds of headphones (or IEMs) will be more expensive than just getting a wired one. We're going to have battery life problems with our wireless headphones, which you already mentioned is a pain on your phone. Wireless only really adds more trouble, since now you have to carry around all types of charging cables. If there was a single, portable charger available to charge all the devices you ever need at the same time, then wireless would definitely be better, but there is still the problem of the battery losing its capacity overtime.

1. Thinner is not my pursuit, but at this point "thinner" has just become a marketing buzzword. There's no way I can feel fractions of a millimeter in my pocket. Unfortunately, most consumers perceive "thinner" as "better", so this will help Apple sell more phones. It's not like Apple is the only one bragging about their phone's thickness, and to remain competitive they have to make some drastic choices. Whether I like it or not, Apple's going to make a thinner phone, so debating if the practical issues of thinner phones could be solved differently is pointless. The current system works because those who strive for absolute thinness can be satisfied, and people who strive for absolute battery life like me can be satisfied.

 

2. Wireless tech is getting better all the time, to the point where the differences between wired and wireless are small enough to ignore for the sake of convenience. If Apple does remove the 3.5 mm jack, then wireless headphones will only get better as more of the market begins using it. As for the battery life of my headphones, it's almost never an issue for me and won't be an issue for most people anyways. I easily can get 5 or 6 hours of playback from my $50 headphones. For the issue of multiple charging cables, my headphones and Iphone 6S battery case both charge off of USB micro-b, so no problem there. As for the problem of battery capacity draining over time, wired headphones have the same durability problems with the plug wearing out and losing electrical connection, something that has trashed two of my old headphones. It's not like wired headphones last forever either.

 

Wires will someday start to disappear, sooner than most people realize. The Logitech G900 mouse has signaled that wireless mice can match or beat high-performance wired mice. High-performance wireless keyboards, although less common, do exist. Windows 10 even has a "Connect to wireless display" option in Display settings. There's going to be downsides to this, primarily battery life, but otherwise it has been shown that wireless can match or exceed wired peripherals. 

 

 

[Arty]

54 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

 

I really see no benefit of USB-C/Lightning Audio on a phone, when 3.5mm is the international standard and works just fine. Changing something without a benefit really doesn't sound good to me - and the phones are thin enough that "making it thinner" is simply not a benefit in my eyes.

Why have 2 USB-C connectors? What else would you use 2 of them for, besides powering and/or tethering the phone + headphones? 1x USB-C + 1x 3.5mm seems like the ideal combination to me.

 

On other devices, having USB-C as the new standard makes sense, replacing Type B, and possibly Type A as well - I get that. But 2x USB-C ports and no 3.5mm jack on a phone? I don't see the benefit.

If we had usb c as a standard for headphones too. you could charge and listen to music.

[dalekphalm]

8 minutes ago, Arty said:

If we had usb c as a standard for headphones too. you could charge and listen to music.

But there is already a standard for headphones. By adopting a new standard that offers no benefits (I've yet to see anyone actually post a benefit), all it results is me having to either buy an adapter, or replace my (relatively) expensive headphones and IEMs.

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

But there is already a standard for headphones. By adopting a new standard that offers no benefits (I've yet to see anyone actually post a benefit), all it results is me having to either buy an adapter, or replace my (relatively) expensive headphones and IEMs.

The benefit is thinner phones (irrelevant imo, but a lot of people do still want thinner), and pushing the bluetooth standard forward. The latter is the big advantage that I see. It's bad for the time being (as it will require people to upgrade/buy adapters), but in the long term I see it as a good thing as the bluetooth standard hasn't been progressing as fast as it should be. As a result there aren't any truly high end bluetooth headphones, which forces some people into an annoying situation....I like my DT990s/SE215s, but I rarely use either as my vastly inferior Backbeat Go2's are used almost exclusively out of convenience. 

[Arty]

11 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

But there is already a standard for headphones. By adopting a new standard that offers no benefits (I've yet to see anyone actually post a benefit), all it results is me having to either buy an adapter, or replace my (relatively) expensive headphones and IEMs.

Hmmm idk how this would be done on earbuds, but on headphones,  there could  a 3.5 Jack on the headphone itself so you can replace the cable.  TBH idk why headphones don't have a 3.5 JACK on the headphone it self. now.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Arty said:

Hmmm idk how this would be done on earbuds, but on headphones,  there could  a 3.5 Jack on the headphone itself so you can replace the cable.  TBH idk why headphones don't have a 3.5 JACK on the headphone it self. now.

It's more expensive than having the cable wired directly into the headphones. (There are headphones that have detachable cables) 

 

As for how it would work on IEMs, well, you'd have a propiertary connector on each earbud (like on the SE215s), and it would come standard with a short wire that would end in a USB plug and included with the iEMs would be USB to USB/3.5/etc... Certainly not an ideal situation. 

[patrickjp93]

7 hours ago, Zenedge said:

why fix what isn't broken?

3.5mm still gives good audio, and super thin phones? why is super thin such a big deal.

i want a phone to have weight, to feel solid, to feel like it wont snap in half

 

companies should focus on better batteries rather than "oh, this phone is 0.0000001mm thinner than last years flagship phone"

dammit, they're focusing on the wrong things

They're focusing on all the right things according to their market data, unfortunately.

[BuckGup]

SO BASICALLY everyone give apple crap about the idea and says they are stupid and everything. Then Android does it and everyone is like no they didn't copy them, it is a cool idea, I really want to see this happen.