Linux Steam bug has the potential to wipe out all files

[WanderingFool]

...

Steam’s bug appears to be caused by a line in the Steam.sh Bash script: rm -rf “$STEAMROOT/“*. That command is a basic Bash instruction that tells the computer to remove the STEAMROOT directory and all its sub-directories (folders).

That’s all well and good, but the issue is that if the STEAMROOT folder is not there then the computer interprets the command as rm -rf “/“*, as first reported by Bit-Tech. If you’re not familiar with Bash, that command tells the system to delete everything on your hard drive starting from the root directory.

...

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2871653/scary-steam-for-linux-bug-erases-all-the-personal-files-on-your-pc.html

 

Basically if you manually move your steam folder around in linux, and if some other conditions line up it will end up calling the rf command and wiping out all data that you have write access too *and from the sounds of it, it includes usb devices as well*

 

This does seem a bit scary that they would leave a line as dangerous as this (and even have it commented as scary, which means someone saw it and didn't bother to fix it).  If the commenter had the insight to know it was potentially scary, then they should also have had the knowledge to flag it and run checks before running that scary command.

 

To put this in perspective, they could easily have added in lines that checked the $STEAMROOT wasn't blank.  For more reading (https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/3671)

 

Actually it is a bit concerning at how even Windows has a similar problem *albeit a bit less concerning* ( Whenever creating an uninstalling I feel it would be in the companies best interested to actually write one properly and not just go by the "lets delete the entire directory it was installed to" approach

[Jade]

I'd like to mention that any respectable Linux distro requires the argument "--no-preserve-root" to do anything with that command.

[qwertywarrior]

all the two people that use steam on linux in this forum need to read this asap

[StingBull]

From what you say, it sounds more like this is a problem with Linux itself. Why does it interpret a command that was not written especially if it's something so dire? That's like Windows deleting your C drive if you accidentally push delete twice on a file.

[WanderingFool]

From what you say, it sounds more like this is a problem with Linux itself. Why does it interpret a command that was not written especially if it's something so dire? That's like Windows deleting your C drive if you accidentally push delete twice on a file.

 

Well it isn't a problem in Linux, it is a problem of using a command that basically assumes you have already run the checks to make sure you aren't about to wipe out stuff you don't need.  To be honest, I would have thought that Steam would be able to have come up with better solutions to uninstalling than just calling the delete all commands *they did a similar approach on windows*.  It is like using the format command on windows to clear a drive...you need to be careful when you use it not to do the wrong drive

[StingBull]

Well it isn't a problem in Linux, it is a problem of using a command that basically assumes you have already run the checks to make sure you aren't about to wipe out stuff you don't need.  To be honest, I would have thought that Steam would be able to have come up with better solutions to uninstalling than just calling the delete all commands *they did a similar approach on windows*.  It is like using the format command on windows to clear a drive...you need to be careful when you use it not to do the wrong drive

 

What is the alternative?

[Linus_torvalds]

all the two people that use steam on linux in this forum need to read this asap

I use linux and steam and i am sure that we are not just 2 people

[WanderingFool]

What is the alternative?

 

Perhaps I was a bit too liberal with the delete all command...but when you do cleanup of a program, I would expect that if you do use commands that will recursively wipe a directory that you would at least put in checks to ensure that you aren't cleaning out the wrong folder (or an important folder).  Some methods I have seen in the past was the uninstaller wipes the directories that it has created and then cleans out the top level files...this is more a fine approach to the situation, it prevents the deletion of unwanted data (unless you happened to store stuff in the folder which it created, but that is another issue all-together).  I hope this makes more sense.  Basically I am saying if steam is normally in somewhere like

C:\pf\steam, it shouldn't just say delete everything in c:\pf\steam, but rather it should have knowledge of the files that should be in the top level directory and delete those, and then delete the files in the sub-folders *although if possible only delete the files that you know were created, but that can be another issue and more complex*.  If they had gone with that approach then worst case scenario you wipe a few folders worth of data and definately no critical data (like entire harddrives worth of data).

 

The main thing that I have an issue with though is that it has in the comments scary, and yet they took zero precautions to check that they weren't deleting the wrong thing

[ForsakenLive]

all the two people that use steam on linux in this forum need to read this asap

I use it actually and there is a fairly large user base as well.

[osbios]

There are more Linux users then you think.

[LePawel]

Oooh praise linux! Linux is the future of gaming! My ass.

[Guest]

daaayyyyuuuummmm

[totjup5]

Well that's quite a problem lol

[Trik'Stari]

Bugs are inevitable. I know very little about linux and programming, but I assume this can be fixed somehow.

[Albatross]

Bugs are inevitable. I know very little about linux and programming, but I assume this can be fixed somehow.

 

It can be fixed. This bug has only effected a handful of users who went about invoking it.

 

And Valve has an update on the matter. According to the link:

 

 

Valve gave us the following statement: "So far we have had a handful of users report this issue, after they manually moved their Steam install. We have not been able to reproduce the reported issue, but we are adding some additional checks to ensure this is not possible while we continue to investigate. If anyone else has experienced this or has more information, they should email linux@valvesoftware.com."

 

 

 

 

Oooh praise linux! Linux is the future of gaming! My ass.

 

You do realize that bugs exist in everything, even Windows, right?

 

Linux is the future. B)

[PortentousLad]

So I'm no Linux expert although LPI might think otherwise(just kidding I only just passed the 101/2 exam), but I have so many questions.

 

1. How come steam even has sufficient rights to do this?

2. where is this $STEAMROOT/ directory and why would it be anywhere near the "/"?

3. Why would I uninstall steam through steam and not apt-get/yum etc. or the software centre?

 

just to name a few.

I can make up reasons to explain most of these, but I still am curious.

[LePawel]

You do realize that bugs exist in everything, even Windows, right?

 

Linux is the future. B)

Sure there are bugs everywhere, and I understand you want this to happen, but 95% of gamers won't switch to an OS they don't know how to use because it's 10% faster in cases X Y and Z. Windows was, is and will be most popular system on the PC because Apple has no gaming support and linux is nerd-stereotyped and no steamOS or steam machine will change it.

[Albatross]

Sure there are bugs everywhere, and I understand you want this to happen, but 95% of gamers won't switch to an OS they don't know how to use because it's 10% faster in cases X Y and Z. Windows was, is and will be most popular system on the PC because Apple has no gaming support and linux is nerd-stereotyped and no steamOS or steam machine will change it.

 

You don't think people needed to learn how to use Windows to start using it? And it is faster all around.  I have Windows on a notebook and it runs like absolute shtako. I installed Ubuntu on it and it sprung forth with life and stability.  The only "argument" pro-Windows people have is that it has more software and gaming capabilities.  Nerd stereotype?  Okay...whatever. Linux is a rapidly growing community. And there is a reason for that.

 

I suggest you take a look at these links and then go from there. Maybe you will see you are wrong about Linux.

 

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-linux-better-than-windows (to get a look at what people are saying about it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption (general information on Linux usage and population, etc)

[LePawel]

You don't think people needed to learn how to use Windows to start using it? And it is faster all around.  I have Windows on a notebook and it runs like absolute shtako. I installed Ubuntu on it and it sprung forth with life and stability.  The only "argument" pro-Windows people have is that it has more software and gaming capabilities.  Nerd stereotype?  Okay...whatever. Linux is a rapidly growing community. And there is a reason for that.

 

I suggest you take a look at these links and then go from there. Maybe you will see you are wrong about Linux.

 

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-linux-better-than-windows (to get a look at what people are saying about it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption (general information on Linux usage and population, etc)

No, people in western world are born in homes with computers in them and they naturally learn to use them, same way you naturally learn to control a TV as a kid to find nickelodeon. From your own link: 2014 - Ubuntu has 22000000 users - that's less than an average European country.

I know linux can be faster and more stable, but being better is relative. And having more software is THE argument. Having a stable linux platform is useless for me if I can't get programs I use on daily basis on it.

There one thing elitists have to understand: You are not the majority. Average windows user does not want or need command prompt and doesn't even need to know what it is, all they want is Office and internet, maybe some facebook game or minecraft. What they don't want is stuff they don't know how to use, like OpenOffice I'm sure you were about write down in response. They fear change because it's something they don't want or have time to understand.

Also, tell me the % of computers on a shop floor that come with Linux preinstalled? Because again, the average user won't know how to properly format and install linux, not to mention re-partitioning hard drives, and what about their family photos, will they lose that, or browser bookmarks I guarantee they won't back up?

Go work in a computer store, whatever your local equivalent of a PC World/Best Buy is, and look at an average consumer, then you'll understand why linux has no space in everyday life.

[Albatross]

No, people in western world are born in homes with computers in them and they naturally learn to use them, same way you naturally learn to control a TV as a kid to find nickelodeon. From your own link: 2014 - Ubuntu has 22000000 users - that's less than an average European country.

I know linux can be faster and more stable, but being better is relative. And having more software is THE argument. Having a stable linux platform is useless for me if I can't get programs I use on daily basis on it.

There one thing elitists have to understand: You are not the majority. Average windows user does not want or need command prompt and doesn't even need to know what it is, all they want is Office and internet, maybe some facebook game or minecraft. What they don't want is stuff they don't know how to use, like OpenOffice I'm sure you were about write down in response. They fear change because it's something they don't want or have time to understand.

Also, tell me the % of computers on a shop floor that come with Linux preinstalled? Because again, the average user won't know how to properly format and install linux, not to mention re-partitioning hard drives, and what about their family photos, will they lose that, or browser bookmarks I guarantee they won't back up?

Go work in a computer store, whatever your local equivalent of a PC World/Best Buy is, and look at an average consumer, then you'll understand why linux has no space in everyday life.

 

So why can't they handle learning Linux? Please be consistent with your arguments, at least. And it appears you missed the part where I said it was expanding/growing, didn't you?

 

Elitist? Me? lol okay, sure.  Actually, no, I wasn't but nice to know you think you can read people's thoughts across the internet. But let's discuss that, for a moment. People don't know how to open Libre/OpenOffice and write? It is literally the same thing as the writing software in Windows only the interface is slightly different.  If you open OpenOffice/LibreOffice and think you can't operate it from your knowledge of Windows or at all, then you must think very lowly of the average person's intelligence or find the most simplest of things a complex matter.

 

OpenOffice:

 

Microsoft Word:

 

 

People didn't have a problem learning Windows 8 and it was very much different from  Windows 7.  The terminal is vital, sure, but it isn't mandatory. You can install Ubuntu and then use software center or the like to easily do what you want. That's the beauty of Linux; it can be as restricted or free as you want.

 

What does being pre-installed have anything to do with anything? That is a ridiculous argument, as is the rest of your "points" of why Windows is superior.  You pop a disc in and install it, just like Windows. I have seen four year olds do it, and I bet you even a monkey could handle it. If they don't know how to backup bookmarks or photos, which is literally the same way as in Windows, what makes you think they can accomplish such simple tasks in Windows? And actually, the work space is adopting Linux at an incredible rate. It has a huge place in this day and age. Many people run servers off it, or use it for their businesses.

 

It is like you didn't even read the links I gave all the way or have ever even tried Linux. Your knowledge of the OS seems superficial at best.

 

Linux is rising as is evident to the fact that so many people and business have started adopting it. SteamOS will help bring the OS into the hands of the average joe. It will happen whether or not you acknowledge it. It isn't Elitism, but if that makes you feel better or feel right, then go ahead and think it I guess.

[LePawel]

So why can't they handle learning Linux? Please be consistent with your arguments, at least. And it appears you missed the part where I said it was expanding/growing, didn't you?

 

Elitist? Me? lol okay, sure.  Actually, no, I wasn't but nice to know you think you can read people's thoughts across the internet. But let's discuss that, for a moment. People don't know how to open Libre/OpenOffice and write? It is literally the same thing as the writing software in Windows only the interface is slightly different.  If you open OpenOffice/LibreOffice and think you can't operate it from your knowledge of Windows or at all, then you must think very lowly of the average person's intelligence or find the most simplest of things a complex matter.

 

OpenOffice:

-om-

Microsoft Word:

-nom-

People didn't have a problem learning Windows 8 and it was very much different from  Windows 7.  The terminal is vital, sure, but it isn't mandatory. You can install Ubuntu and then use software center or the like to easily do what you want. That's the beauty of Linux; it can be as restricted or free as you want.

 

What does being pre-installed have anything to do with anything? That is a ridiculous argument, as is the rest of your "points" of why Windows is superior.  You pop a disc in and install it, just like Windows. I have seen four year olds do it, and I bet you even a monkey could handle it. If they don't know how to backup bookmarks or photos, which is literally the same way as in Windows, what makes you think they can accomplish such simple tasks in Windows? And actually, the work space is adopting Linux at an incredible rate. It has a huge place in this day and age. Many people run servers off it, or use it for their businesses.

 

It is like you didn't even read the links I gave all the way or have ever even tried Linux. Your knowledge of the OS seems superficial at best.

 

Linux is rising as is evident to the fact that so many people and business have started adopting it. SteamOS will help bring the OS into the hands of the average joe. It will happen whether or not you acknowledge it. It isn't Elitism, but if that makes you feel better or feel right, then go ahead and think it I guess.

Yes linux is growing, so is the number of PCs and the population.

It's not about opening libre/open office. It's about managing it. That's the reason Microsoft has introduced the top ribbon in Office 2007. I can see basic UI problems from a mile with that screenshot e.g. why are there 2 same font sections pointlessly spread around the interface? Is it another "customize it your way" thing? People don't want to spend time preparing something that should work already.

 

People do have problems learning windows 8. That's why every other customer was asking me if there are windows 7 machines during Christmas, and I don't think lowly of average person, I talked to them, enough to estimate an average. You seem to think that means a 20-odd year old that grew up with computers since they were 5; surprise, average user depends on the knowledge of that sales colleague that is pushing extended warranties for 30% of your computer's value to every other customer and "huge X TB of cloud storage" you won't fill up due to your upload rates. I'm not saying they're stupid, I'm saying they're used to that what they have, and learning changes takes time, which they don't want to waste on something they use once every day for internet.

 

And while the "you can customize your linux machine to your preference" argument is great, works same for android, is invalid for people that use the computer for casual use. They do not spend hours on the internet looking for ways to optimize their linux experience, again: "shouldn't it work from the start? Why does one have to tinker with something that should work out of the box" *returns perfectly working machine*. 

 

Now, I have not once said Windows is superior, people are simply familiar with it. Take your tech-savvy hat off for a second and put yourself in shoes of someone who has not formatted his drive once. They didn't re-install windows by themselves, even on 10 year old computers, not once, his now-100-miles-away son used to manage all that. You are asking those kind of people to jump over to linux. Of course they'd do same mistakes when reinstalling Windows, that's why they've never done it. You only see linux through its benefits because you know those benefits, are you fine with explaining all of them to each new linux user? Or at least show them few websites with tutorials and helpful videos?

 

Back to your first line: They would if there were 40x more linux machines on this planet.

At the moment however, people can't handle learning linux because it's a change, people don't want change, that's why Windows 8 had such a adoption rate at the start. Where's the control panel in linux? Let's google it! What phrase should an ex-windows user use? Maybe "linux control panel"? Let's see:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=linux+control+panel Results show server management and even images return different control centers. What about windows? 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=windows+control+panel You see the difference?

Let's refine! What about "Linux control panel equivalent?" First link! exactly what we need!

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/ubuntu-linux/92683-linux-equivalent-windows-system-control-panel.html aaand its nothing but posts filled with commands that don't even make any sense.

Second link: 

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1217886 One answer that makes some sense, among more commands, and some 3rd party application recommendations.

Linux gives you ground to build your very own custom OS - Sure. But people are after something that just works more often than not. They don't want to have to spend additional time in order to do something they could just do on a different machine. It's not as easy as you, clearly a user of that OS think.

[dalekphalm]

You don't think people needed to learn how to use Windows to start using it? And it is faster all around.  I have Windows on a notebook and it runs like absolute shtako. I installed Ubuntu on it and it sprung forth with life and stability.  The only "argument" pro-Windows people have is that it has more software and gaming capabilities.  Nerd stereotype?  Okay...whatever. Linux is a rapidly growing community. And there is a reason for that.

 

I suggest you take a look at these links and then go from there. Maybe you will see you are wrong about Linux.

 

http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-linux-better-than-windows (to get a look at what people are saying about it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption (general information on Linux usage and population, etc)

For a select number of Power Users, your argument holds some merit.

 

But Linux, as it currently exists, will never become mainstream.

 

Linux has several major issues that prevent this:

 

1. Unified experience - Linux has dozens of Distro's. All of which are different, look different, act different, and at times support different software. Ubuntu has gone some way to resolve this by gaining traction, but the fact of the matter is that until one single distro becomes the "de facto" main linux distro, this will remain a problem.

 

2. UI - Ubuntu has made some progress here, but not everyone likes Unity, and that's probably the most user friendly UI for linux that isn't super obscure. The Windows UI is simply better for the average person. Easier to use. More polished. Unified experience also comes in here. If a person learns how to use Linux through KDE then encounters Gnome, it'll be confusing because they aren't the same. There are many variations on the UI throughout the various Linux Distro's, and this is bad. You might think choice is good - well not for mainstream. One single UI needs to become dominant.

 

3. Complexity: This is a multifaceted issue. Linux is complex and confusing. And most importantly, it's scary to average PC users. If something goes wrong, troubleshooting can be a huge bitch. Much more complex an issue than with Windows. You will often need to use the Terminal when troubleshooting. In fact, the Terminal is still in significant use today for many regular tasks as part of being a Linux user. The average person should never need to see, or use, the terminal. Same way that the average PC user has never seen or used Command Prompt.

 

4. Software support: Having open source this and that is grand. But it doesn't mean shit in the end. There are many pieces of software that simply aren't available on Linux, or the Linux alternative is more complex or simply not as good. You also have a lot of professional software packages unavailable, such as Office and Adobe Creative Suite. Yes there are some alternatives, but many of them are not comparable. Take LibreOffice for example. Sure it's fine if you just want to write a letter to your aunt, but it is NOT comparable to Office. There are many advanced features and functions that LibreOffice doesn't have. Microsoft Office is also prettier (Which DOES matter to the average user), and easier to use. Office spends a lot of time on the User Interface, because Microsoft recognizes that the UI is the most important part of the software. It doesn't look intimidating or scary. It's welcoming and easy to learn.

 

5. Official Technical Support: Linux doesn't come with support. YES, you've got free support from the open source community, via web forums, etc, but that's not actual support. You need to pay for a support contract from whatever Distro you're using, if you want official support from the devs. Microsoft includes this support for free, for the first 5 years of the software, as part of the purchase price.

 

6. Pre-built OEM PC's: During the Netbook era, in the late 2000's, Linux made some strides by being installed on shitty 1st gen Atom CPU netbooks that were slow as dirt. You'd think this would be good for Linux... Except, when was the last time you saw an OEM pre-built with Linux on it? Once ultra mobile CPU's caught up - technology wise - the manufacturers switched back to using Windows. Why? Because no one gave a shit about the Linux variations. Most people probably got the netbooks home and were pissed off because all the software they already had or were used to using didn't work on it. The average PC user (And like 99% of PC users in general) don't build their own PC's. They simply go to Best Buy or Wal-Mart, and buy an HP/Dell/Lenovo, etc. Whatever version of OS comes on that, is what they will use. You think people were pissed when they bought a new PC and it had Windows 8 on it? If most of the choices were suddenly Linux, they would be even more pissed.

 

7. Gaming Support: This somewhat ties in with Software Support. Yes, SteamOS is coming (Albeit still pretty far away from actual release I'd guess). Yes, Steam itself is available now for Linux. But how many AAA games get released on Linux at launch? How many AAA games even make it to Linux at all? Steam is making some progress here, but until Activision or EA releases the next MMS (Modern Military Shooter) on Windows and Linux simultaneously on Launch, and all the other publishers follow suit, then Linux Gaming will remain a very niche, very small subgroup of PC Gamers.

 

Linux has a lot of problems.

 

is it great for a power user that takes the time to properly learn Terminal, and researches all the best open source alternative software? Yes.

 

Is it great for average joe PC user? Hells no.

 

Linux will have to change significantly for this to happen. Remember that us Tech Enthusiasts are the 1% of "Mainstream" Gamers. Remember that "Mainstream" Gamers are the 1% of PC/Computer users. What we might like, is going to be vastly different from that of the average PC user. I think that users on LTT Forums often forget this.

[dalekphalm]

@Albatross

 

Many people run servers off it

This is NOT IN ANY WAY an argument that Linux should be used as a Desktop OS for the average Joe. Most web servers run off LAMP, this is known. But that's been true since what... the 1990's? That hasn't helped Linux Desktop adoption rates at all. Servers are very very different from Desktop computers, in what they need, what features are important - and most importantly - who is using them.

 

Average Joe isn't going to install a LAMP server on his old PC. Average Joe thinks servers are these magical things in the cloud and has no idea how they actually work - nor does he need to.

 

And until Linux has an "Out of the box" ready to use alternative for Active Directory Domain Servers, then Windows based Servers will still be incredibly popular among business for the foreseeable future. Most businesses actually run a MIX of Windows AND Linux Servers. Why? Because they understand that each has its own advantage. Besides, it's not like Linux Servers end up being any cheaper in the long run, since you pay for support contracts from RedHat or whoever else you use for your Distro. Most Businesses want support contracts because it saves them a lot of time, because their techs don't have to waste time nailing down some random stupid issue where they can contact support and get it fixed in an hour.

 

Linux is great for Web servers, and certain other applications. Windows, however, is great for AD Domains, and user/group control. Both have advantages. One is not simply superior to the other.

[AxelRantila]

Unified experience - Linux has dozens of Distro's. All of which are different, look different, act different, and at times support different software. Ubuntu has gone some way to resolve this by gaining traction, but the fact of the matter is that until one single distro becomes the "de facto" main linux distro, this will remain a problem.

This is probably the biggest reason why I won't probably won't switch to Linux. How do I know which distro will work with what hardware? What will work with what software? There is too many unknown variables. (I do like Synology's Disk Station Manager, but that's only good for managing NASes) 

 

And believe it or not, I actually think that Microsoft, if anyone, has been making good decisions recently.

[MEC-777]

IMO, people who do not need windows for windows-specific programs/games, should not waste their time (and money) on windows. All windows does is hog resources and fill their  Linux makes WAAAAAY more sense for the average user. The main reason it's not yet widely adopted by gamers is because a lot of games are still windows-only, and that is a very quickly changing. I'm surprised every time I check the Linux compatibility list in steam - it just keeps growing.

 

My mother-in-law is now using Linux as her main OS on her new PC I built for her, recently. She switched, cold-turkey, from using windows all her life. She is NOT tech-savvy. I have heard zero complaints and no questions asked from her, thus far. In fact all she has told me is that she's blown away by how fast and smooth it runs. So if my non-techie mother-in-law can switch to Linux, so can everyone else.

 

The benefits of Linux are so vast and when you see first-hand how much better older/weaker hardware runs on it, it's very eye-opening.

 

Unfortunately a big part of the problem is education and breaking down the myths/stereotypes about Linux. Most people are stubborn and don't want to change, even if the change is for the better. Their mentality is anything that's different is not as good as what they're used to. My mother-in-law was hesitant at first, but I just said try it for a couple weeks and if you really truly don't like it, then I'll put windows on it. It's been 3 weeks now and she loves it. People need to be willing to try something else instead of always running back to what they know. They may find greener grass on the other side, but they're too afraid to even look.