Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Biomancer81]

5 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Here you go:

(timestamped to 6:34)

 

The reaching out is completely just complimentary even in more traditional media. Some newspapers and news channels may have very strict rules about reaching out for a comment but they are still just complimentary and a lot of the time when the news piece is bit "spicy" you will see "X was contacted for input but didn't provide answer" which basicly translates into "10 minutes before pressing publish we send them an email and they didn't answer".

And yes, that is done by even the most respected publications.

 

As Steve says:
He doesn't reach out every time, he doesn't need to reach out every time to corporations when reporting on them. Period. With big corporation he doesn't reach out if the issue already harms the consumers or if their view is irrelevant. Any product he buys and reviews, he doesn't reach out because they are already doing harm.

He didn't need Linus's input or permission to do that video. LMGs videos are already affecting millions of consumers and their objective errors, which he covered objectively (Me: like the case where Linus goes "you can throw anything at Noctua NH-D15 and it handles it" while the very next graph shows NH-D15 not handling everything thrown at it but a CPU thermal throttling) and Linus's response is to move the discussion over why he wasn't allowed to get input on the first video (Me: Because he would have done what he did, turn it into "oh, it's already handled and made right" while actually Coltons email got lost into their bureaucracy and the first thing Linus did before writing the response was to reach out to Billet by himself making sure that "the problem is being handled" and he doesn't lie saying "it's under control").

 

And still that is A LOT more than Linus has done even in the close past. Like with the Billet Labs where he right out denied his writer to make the test properly because it would have costed him money and it wouldn't have changed his stand about the product. That is way further away from objective reviewing with trustful and correct testing than not giving Linus "gas-molecule" Sebastian chance to respond in private and probably start to do damage control before all of his mistakes are thrown into the public.

But as I have seen all the other videos he has done, he always has reached out. It is convienient in thos case that he said that the 

 

You are then arguing that no person other than Steve is capable of looking at both pieces of informatiom and forming a conclusion. By not giving Linus a voice, it looks like he is hiding some information. His argument is basically that "my viewers are too stupid to see through a smoke screen, so I wont give them the chance to put one up."

 

The majority of people are smart enough to hear what Steve said and Linus response on the video, and figure it out, by leaving it out he has only damaged his own reputation.

[Biomancer81]

Additional Information

 

Steve does not stand to gain financially from reporting on those companies. He does by doing this video. He had something to gain, and he cant even acknowledge it.

[madsci1016]

Those who fail to acknowledge all the issues with Steves statements and how he approached this are just as bad as those white knighting LMG like they did nothing wrong. 

[Goriss]

Guys ! Watch this:

 

 

Linus is such a great person ? Well i don't think so......

 

[TechDeckCAD]

4 hours ago, 3m3m said:

Firstly I don't act, secondly, I see something for what it is. I process it realistically and methodically. I recognize prejudice because life schooled me. Do not presume you know what I am thinking because you don't.

 

For a company to address another company with disdain is woefully unacceptable and unprofessional. In the real world where real decisions are made, you don't see preschool shenanigans. You see adults laying out the situation and addressing each of the problems by name. It is called dialogue for a reason. Once both parties agree on what the problems are solutions can be suggested. Those suggestions undergo changes until it is able to translate into a solution. Then those solutions are structured and planned for implementation. This takes time.

 

If you ever sat in a boardroom you would understand what is written here. This is not a movie, this is not a video game, this is real life. If you understand this, you will understand the reckless actions GN took to endanger the livelihoods of over 100 employees and the sustainability of the company. GN had no reason to do what they did unless they harbour prejudice. If it weren't the case GN would have been more forthcoming. 

???
You made such a big deal about disrespect and completely avoided addressing where LTT/LMG went wrong, so of course I'm going to call nonsense on you saying you "see things for what it is." What I see here is you being unfair in how you judge people/situations. You're ready to hurl a lot of criticism on GN out of some misguided outrage in how he covered the news, but you avoid talking about LMG/LTT's misgivings.

 

And once again, you are being insanely dramatic. I honestly do not understand how you can watch both of Gamers Nexus's videos and assume there was disdain on Burke's part. There is literally a discussion over information being misrepresented. By your logic, anyone in the peer review space must be acting on disdain when they point out that the numbers in any given research paper, do not add up correctly. The way it's looking to me, you're doing everything in your power to avoid holding LMG/LTT accountable, and painting GN to be this big bad guy that ruined everything.

 

"GN had no reason to do what they did unless they harbour prejudice. If it weren't the case GN would have been more forthcoming."

At least you're being transparent that you wanted LMG to have special treatment, and therefore you are biased and unreasonable. Even this logic is horrendous. Pointing out errors, poorly constructed reviews and conduct in dealing w/ smaller companies is not being prejudicial.

 

5 hours ago, 3m3m said:

Both Steve and Linus are stuck in a high school mentality. Both need to realize they have a responsibility towards their respective communities. Again I must reiterate I do not condone LMG's actions. But GN's actions seem more egregious to me because GN knew better, they had access to many people within LTT that they could have asked to respond.

 

Remember GN knew LTT was going to respond in a video at some stage. Anyone with half a brain cell knew that was going to happen. What did GN do? They preemptively said they will no longer respond. They are trying to control the narrative. If they are forthcoming why did they make those decisions ahead of time? For the good of the community? No, it is so that they can proclaim innocence and continue to control the narrative.

 

This is why I came here, registered an account and started to post here. GN is predatorial in nature. It is time to call them out as well. You call a duck a duck.

Once again, GN has no obligation to contact anyone, and the information they had acquired was already in the public domain. One of the few information that they did receive in private, was verified (the timeline of communications between LMG and BL for instance). This is really annoying to have to reiterate when you clearly do not understand the Code of Conduct for journalists.

 

"They preemptively said they will no longer respond. They are trying to control the narrative." - This is where I really think you're arguing in bad faith. You've consistently shown a pattern to criticize one party for one thing, and avoid addressing the other party doing the exact same thing. So LMG/LTT lied about saying they will reimburse Billet Labs, where is your criticism? Radio Silence. When LMG/LTT doubled down on their stance and refused to listen to constructive issues about their data/validity of reviews, where's your criticism? Radio Silence.

You've also consistently shown a pattern to disregard what was factually reported; this is not why they said they will no longer respond. GN said this because they said their piece and wasn't going to make this into a dramafest like other YouTube channels tend to do when there is a disagreement amongst multiple entities. They said their piece in the 2 videos and moved on.

[Starglider]

RE: Video mistakes

You made some duff videos, did it affect me? Would it ever affect me? No? Good. No Fs given then. You say your going to do better?, good for you, a pat on the back... Why are you crying? Cringe... Exit... At the end of the day I look at the stats of multiple products, read some reviews and skip to some graphs on a bunch of random YT channel suggest (the talky talky bits are mostly a waste of time anyway). Then I buy from one of the locations I trust who is the cheapest at the time.

 

RE: GN VS LTT

This was obviously coming, I was just waiting for who would find and fire the first shot. If Linus didn't see this coming then, ooof... Don't trust humans... LABS will do some damage to tubers like GN, Steve's perm will def' get even more grey. As for my opp', I don't care, as long as can get some stats from multiple sources on whatever I'm buying at the time, and not have to listen to too much talky talky...

 

RE: HR issues

I would like to hear about a "Depp vs Herd" situation between all parties involved after it's all done and dusted. That way I can skip all the crap dumb C's put on the internet and just get to the point and see who's F'd.

 

RE: The most interesting part about all this

Visit a few tubers channels and go to the video pages (including GN) and check the view count of their videos mentioning LTT and those that don't, check out who's milking the LTT train. Just saying, "i'm not monetizing, doesn't mean your not milking it, get em subs, likes, followers, public favour etc"....

[forgotusername]

5 minutes ago, Goriss said:

Guys ! Watch this:

 

 

Linus is such a great person ? Well i don't think so......

 

Yup, if Linus wants to do better, there should be a workers' union at LMG.

Anything less and he is just waiting for the whole thing to blow over.

[atxcyclist]

42 minutes ago, starsmine said:

He. Did. NOT.

It is not correct to assume doing it for the drama because of view count. It is not just not correct, it is incredibly wrong.

 

  

Competition is such a dumb way to look at this, Viewers are still going to watch both channels, not one or the other.

 

There is no conspiracy here.

Not for every viewer, but this will be an event of division, it already has been. A lot of viewers are and will unsubscribe or stop watching channels over this. Outside of just GN and LMG, this is becoming a snowball gaining mass going down a hill, and a ton of other channels are creating content on it as well.

 

The outcome of this likely won’t be universally viewed as constructive.

[schwarzerrogen]

8 minutes ago, Goriss said:

Guys ! Watch this:

 

 

Linus is such a great person ? Well i don't think so......

 

Most companies don't want employees discussing wages or compensation; that's sadly normal in business. While I don't agree with it, that's not unexpected or abnormal in any manner. It's a form of control and division over employees.

[TechDeckCAD]

5 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

The outcome of this likely won’t be universally viewed as constructive.

This will only happen if Linus decides to dig his head into the sand and ignore any constructive feedback (which the irony being that even his own employees aren't happy with the quality of videos they've had to make).

 

If Linus decides to listen for once and not be defensive, people will look back at this and say "okay Burke gave him a good kick in the ass, Linus finally listened and made improvements."

[Thaldor]

6 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

But as I have seen all the other videos he has done, he always has reached out. It is convienient in thos case that he said that the 

 

You are then arguing that no person other than Steve is capable of looking at both pieces of informatiom and forming a conclusion. By not giving Linus a voice, it looks like he is hiding some information. His argument is basically that "my viewers are too stupid to see through a smoke screen, so I wont give them the chance to put one up."

 

The majority of people are smart enough to hear what Steve said and Linus response on the video, and figure it out, by leaving it out he has only damaged his own reputation.

But again, Linus's first action was to try to hide the problem and throw the smokescreen.

Personally, I think that is far more asshole thing to do than not asking input. Linus could have taken the few hours (extra) to collect himself, inform his people, to call Colton and find out that the email wasn't actually sent and write "Sorry, there was a problem with our communication with the company and that is bad. You can trust us we will make this right, no, I will make this right, no matter what." But instead he played the card of "Everything is already taken care of" while it wasn't and the whole "taking care of" was just started.

That is throwing a smokescreen and trying to wipe the problem under the rug and not owning the problem and being transparent.

 

I do give Linus that reaching out to the Billet Lab right after the problem was brought out, but throwing the smokescreen was wrong action from someone who tries to swear on transparency.

 

What comes to the monetization. Do you believe any news outlet does it for the goodness of their hearts without any kind of monetary agenda behind them?

Like yeah, GN will get views and subs for this, everyone YT channel chiming in will get views and subs for it, hell, they count on getting views and subs for it. Just like Linus tried to save few bucks by not doing things rights and most likely will try to monetize this somehow (probably there's someone designing "It's charity auction, not selling!" limited edition T-shirt already and "auctionable" monoblock plushie).

That's media life and everyone is scavenger.

[Goriss]

13 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

Most companies don't want employees discussing wages or compensation; that's sadly normal in business. While I don't agree with it, that's not unexpected or abnormal in any manner. It's a form of control and division over employees.

  Normal in business? Have you even watched that video? It's ILLEGAL in the USA and in Europe and actually in most of Canada. So how is that normal? LOL it's not normal at all.

[Aniallation]

1 hour ago, Kresnik-02 said:

I'm just going to leave this here. He didn't do it for the drama, sure.

Tf does that even mean, just because something gets more views because naturally more people are interested, does not mean he's doing it for the drama. 

[TMPVC]

31 minutes ago, Goriss said:

Guys ! Watch this:

 

 

Linus is such a great person ? Well i don't think so......

 

Old news already, I'm certain I've seen the handbook six months ago on reddit

[freeagent]

Hey..

 

You guys know its summer right?

 

Go outside. Be with friends. Take your shoes off and walk on the grass.

 

You will feel better. 

[LukasJ]

 

LTT LMG has a weeks pause on new videos. I assume that means all new production is stopped - you have x days of pre-filmed videos;

So when self-imposed embargo is over, why not release those videos over X days and allow yourselves to ramp-up to full/reduced production? If you push these now, the production team needs to go back to work like tomorrow to have a full slate of videos come next week?

 

Or am I missing something?

[mikaelus]

I've always been fairly skeptical about the viability of the Labs project and now, following the GN controversy, I feel that it might just be an extremely expensive dead end for a channel whose popularity was built largely on the entertainment factor and attractive personalities of its hosts, more than accuracy of its reporting.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the ambition behind it and I would even agree that it could be useful to have but it is also an excellent example of the law of diminishing returns.

 

In essence, we already have access to pretty good reviews of just about every product in existence, while their quality has only gone up over time. That's why closing the remaining - already quite narrow - gap in what we know is extremely expensive (as exhibited by the scale of investment in Labs) but it doesn't really provide much more value to most buyers.

 

At the same time it also massively raises expectations for LTT - as exhibited by the drama of the past few days - but can it really result in some ground-breaking discoveries that no other reviewer can already provide? And that IT companies missed in their own quality control?

 

In other words, it puts considerably more pressure on LTT without any guarantee that it can deliver anything novel (or at least substantially valuable to viewers).

 

After all, it's not like we have to navigate some minefield of IT junk, with exploding PSUs or motherboards catching fire - which, by the way, not even most rigorous testing may be able to catch unless the problem is systemic and affects entire batches of products, in which case it would still quickly become public knowledge leading to product recalls and reimbursements.

 

It may also aggravate the split personality of LTT as a whole, which on the one hand is a brand of YOLO IT projects, often done without preparation and comical disregard for how things "should" be done (and THAT is what is its appeal) and on the other a disciplined testing outlet, that should follow strict procedures (which it, so far, can't do).

 

It's one of the reasons, by the way, for the recent backlash, because it's hard for people - including Linus - to operate under two completely different expectations. This is why he decided to YOLO the Billet Labs monoblock review, which was in line with that part of LTT's identity. And it would have been acceptable - even using the block on an incompatible card - as long as it didn't lead to some definitive conclusions about the product. But then it did, in keeping with the promise of information and education - which, however, clearly could not be kept under these circumstances.

 

So, do Labs really make sense? Wouldn't LTT be better off by focusing on the entertainment side and not treat itself so seriously? I'm not convinced it's worth millions that are being invested in it - and can even become a burden for LTT going forward.

[Drazil100]

6 minutes ago, mikaelus said:

I've always been fairly skeptical about the viability of the Labs project and now, following the GN controversy, I feel that it might just be an extremely expensive dead end for a channel whose popularity was built largely on the entertainment factor and attractive personalities of its hosts, more than accuracy of its reporting.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the ambition behind it and I would even agree that it could be useful to have but it is also an excellent example of the law of diminishing returns.

 

In essence, we already have access to pretty good reviews of just about every product in existence, while their quality has only gone up over time. That's why closing the remaining - already quite narrow - gap in what we know is extremely expensive (as exhibited by the scale of investment in Labs) but it doesn't really provide much more value to most buyers.

 

At the same time it also massively raises expectations for LTT - as exhibited by the drama of the past few days - but can it really result in some ground-breaking discoveries that no other reviewer can already provide? And that IT companies missed in their own quality control?

 

In other words, it puts considerably more pressure on LTT without any guarantee that it can deliver anything novel (or at least substantially valuable to viewers).

 

After all, it's not like we have to navigate some minefield of IT junk, with exploding PSUs or motherboards catching fire - which, by the way, not even most rigorous testing may be able to catch unless the problem is systemic and affects entire batches of products, in which case it would still quickly become public knowledge leading to product recalls and reimbursements.

 

It may also aggravate the split personality of LTT as a whole, which on the one hand is a brand of YOLO IT projects, often done without preparation and comical disregard for how things "should" be done (and THAT is what is its appeal) and on the other a disciplined testing outlet, that should follow strict procedures (which it, so far, can't do).

 

It's one of the reasons, by the way, for the recent backlash, because it's hard for people - including Linus - to operate under two completely different expectations. This is why he decided to YOLO the Billet Labs monoblock review, which was in line with that part of LTT's identity. And it would have been acceptable - even using the block on an incompatible card - as long as it didn't lead to some definitive conclusions about the product. But then it did, in keeping with the promise of information and education - which, however, clearly could not be kept under these circumstances.

 

So, do Labs really make sense? Wouldn't LTT be better off by focusing on the entertainment side and not treat itself so seriously? I'm not convinced it's worth millions that are being invested in it - and can even become a burden for LTT going forward.

Tried to reply when it was a separate thread (not sure why it got merged into this one but OK...)

I think you have the wrong idea about it. While yes LMG channels rely heavily on labs data, that doesn't mean that it is solely for the purpose of building the channel. The YouTube channels will still try to be entertainment first (with hopefully a lot more accuracy and better correction procedures for mistakes) but Labs is intended to be it's own thing that will hopefully become financially viable on it's own.

They work together, but they are not intended to be the same thing.

[Cooldoe]

52 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

But again, Linus's first action was to try to hide the problem and throw the smokescreen.

Personally, I think that is far more asshole thing to do than not asking input. Linus could have taken the few hours (extra) to collect himself, inform his people, to call Colton and find out that the email wasn't actually sent and write "Sorry, there was a problem with our communication with the company and that is bad. You can trust us we will make this right, no, I will make this right, no matter what." But instead he played the card of "Everything is already taken care of" while it wasn't and the whole "taking care of" was just started.

That is throwing a smokescreen and trying to wipe the problem under the rug and not owning the problem and being transparent.

 

I do give Linus that reaching out to the Billet Lab right after the problem was brought out, but throwing the smokescreen was wrong action from someone who tries to swear on transparency.

 

What comes to the monetization. Do you believe any news outlet does it for the goodness of their hearts without any kind of monetary agenda behind them?

Like yeah, GN will get views and subs for this, everyone YT channel chiming in will get views and subs for it, hell, they count on getting views and subs for it. Just like Linus tried to save few bucks by not doing things rights and most likely will try to monetize this somehow (probably there's someone designing "It's charity auction, not selling!" limited edition T-shirt already and "auctionable" monoblock plushie).

That's media life and everyone is scavenger.

If you watch last week WAN show you know that Linus and Luke want to address the mistake issue. As stated in the apology video and in last week WAN show, there are times event the best set of eyes will miss it. We are prone to repetitive and tunnel vision bias where we only look for mistake in specific area and totally miss the obvious one.

No matter how many people you employ it will have the same issue. That is why in the last WAN show Linus discus the possibility to get the community involved to review their content and get rewarded for it

[maquisofjustic]

Hi gamer nexus called out your relation to noctua, i belive you should stopped being sponsored by them!

[OldGuard]

People will have their own opinion about Linus and this whole mess.

 

However, no matter what he (Linus) says.. His true colors and core values came out in that video clip where he said he would not re-test the gpu cooler with the correct gpu because it will cost them hundreds of dollars in employee time (that was/is the real Linus).. That comment shows that he views LMG employees as an expense (think of SIMS but instead of a ? above heads its $$).
 

When any business owner is so focused and affect by MONEY or viewing employees as an expense, that work environment (over at LMG) is definitely toxic.

[throwawayManMode]

They just can't go one week without releasing new content, whether it's floatplane or the WAN show or whatever

[WallacEngineering]

2 hours ago, Goriss said:

  Normal in business? Have you even watched that video? It's ILLEGAL in the USA and in Europe and actually in most of Canada. So how is that normal? LOL it's not normal at all.

 

Its actually policy at most companies in the USA. I mean I was born here, lived here my entire life and I know if I ever discussed pay with my co-workers and my boss found out, I wouldn't have a job anymore.

 

If its really illegal then the government doesn't do a single thing about it, thats for sure.

 

On the one hand - Ya it sucks and seems unfair because then its much harder to find out if someone is being paid unfairly. On the other hand - Employees receive different amounts of pay based on their position, previous experience, and raises given for exceptional work.

 

That means lesser paid employees will assume they are being underpaid when they haven't earned the better pay yet, and that can cause some pretty extreme issues within a company.

 

So really, its right and wrong at the same time. Go figure - another grey area...

[Silvy]

2 hours ago, TechDeckCAD said:

 

 

Once again, GN has no obligation to contact anyone, and the information they had acquired was already in the public domain. One of the few information that they did receive in private, was verified (the timeline of communications between LMG and BL for instance). This is really annoying to have to reiterate when you clearly do not understand the Code of Conduct for journalists.

I disagree on this simply for the fact that it seems Billet left out information that was pretty important. The simple fact of the matter here is, it's pretty biased to only hear one side and assume that side is telling the whole truth. This is why in journalism it's usually good practice to get comments on both sides unless you are trying to stir up drama. The idea here being you leave it up to the viewers to determine how they view the situation.

When you don't get a comment, it just comes off as purposefully done in an attempt to color other people's views of the situation. Very manipulative in my opinion. 

[CaptBananaPants]

On 8/16/2023 at 1:53 PM, Quirkz said:

Good question. According to GN next response, Billet stated that they wished Linus had asked prior to publishing the video, so that they had had the opportunity to work with them in correcting the issues. So, no, LTT didn't, and the first Billet saw of it was the live video.

Exactly, asking for GN to give them a courtesy that they haven't allowed for someone else is totally disrespectful, especially when its got to do with a very small company who was letting them test a prototype, not a final product. 

 

Rules for ye but not for me - Linus.