Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Biomancer81]

13 hours ago, cjhmdm said:

To everyone saying that Steve should've reached out for comment... what could Linus have possibly said that would've changed anything in the video? We've already seen his response to this entire situation thus far, and to me, Linus is really starting to sound like that dude from Artesian Builds, and we all know how that turned out. Besides, Steve also gave pretty solid reasoning as to why he didn't reach out for comment, and his reasoning was proven correct by Linus' initial book of a response that attempted to manipulate the crowd and make himself the victim in all of this.

 

I mean, seriously, Linus in on record stating that he doesn't want to spend the money to make corrections. There's no factual context he could've given to defend that position because he's made it crystal clear that all he cares about is pushing out the content, accuracy and factual data be damned.

 

What I truly find sad though is the number of people out here defending LTT in this regard. These guys are literally out here hurting businesses because they can't be bothered to get their information right.

Literally, the only thing that would have changed was that Steve could have pointed back to it and upheld his integrity. instead of appearing as if he was trying to hide something.

 

Its not about what Linus would have said, but the fact he wasnt given the chance to say anything at all. It is optically bad, and puts Steve and GN in the position of looking not objective on the matter.

 

The exact point of your question, what qould it have changed, points out how monumentally stupid it was to skip such a pro forma step in journalism.

[Biomancer81]

15 hours ago, Godiwa said:

Hi Fool,

My name is not Steve... and I am not even American Either...

Have a nice day Fool...

You obviously cant destect sarcasm either, the way you came on the forums right after it happened, and have only been trolling, I imolied you were Steve from GN.

 

This all leads me to question your capacity in evaluating information in a meaningful way.

 

- The Fool

[DaveImagery]

I saw this coming months ago.  Linus so desperate to hang from Steve's nuts.  'Hey look at me guy, I have "labs" too.  Big mistake nipping at the heels of a competitor who has more credibility than you do.  Yikes.  The way Steve just shit all over Linus, was glorious.  I watched the video three times. 

[hmfaysal]

1 minute ago, DaveImagery said:

I saw this coming months ago.  Linus so desperate to hang from Steve's nuts.  'Hey look at me guy, I have "labs" too.  Big mistake nipping at the heels of a competitor who has more credibility than you do.  Yikes.  The way Steve just shit all over Linus, was glorious.  I watched the video three times. 

That’s what Steve will do from now on, going forward, shit

[Biomancer81]

14 hours ago, fragglepop said:

1) You demostrably don't go through proper "journalistic practices" in creating videos - or even "testing practices" in testing. 

 

2) Auction - noun - public *sale* in which goods or property are *sold* to the highest bidder.

Is the implication you make that any journalist or person who claims to be one, does not or should not follow the practices they set forth for themselves and other, simply because they record it in a video format rather than in print.

 

Ill just let the world of television news, journalistic practices need not apply to their content as it is in video format and therefore not journalistic.

[yoc]

30 minutes ago, Emperor Anime said:

Oh yeah the LMG employee handbook was leaked and there's some funny stuff in there, but also some stuff that's illegal which is lol. GG dudes

Where? I need to take a look at that handbook.

[Biomancer81]

18 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

GN did act professionally, and asking for an interview on LMG's terms only would have benefited LMG, which is of course what Linus wants for his company, he wants to have control and doesn't like it when people criticize his company even when its to do better, he took it rather personally with the backpack warranty and he's taking it personally again.

 

I think people are already terrified to speak up and tell their stories, given that LMG is a large company, and has lots of fans to defend them and deny LMG of any wrongdoing.

Even though GN didn't ask, calling out LMG is good for the community because now we can expect LTT/LMG to improve on things, not just saying they care about input from the audience as they've said before when people on the forums point out mistakes.

 

GN did act for the good of the consumer, as consumers we should want LMG to provide detailed accurate info, and if you think GN did it for the clout you're missing the point, the sub count and views are likely only short term, people will forget this issue and still watch LTT content.

I think GN is risking sponsorships that may also sponsor LTT/LMG, and possibly risking long term viewers that also watch LTT content because he called out LTT, I would expect some of those angry viewers to unsub and no longer watch GN's content.

Being objective, you know, the thing Steve claims to be, literally means, that you report all the facts regardless of if he feels a statement from LMG would benefit them. GN are the only people as the reporter, who should not benefit, because they are supposed to be the record of truth, by denying the comment it looks like they had something to hide, and their objectivity as well as their credibility are hurt.

[Biomancer81]

19 hours ago, bandainamcofan said:

Hyperbolic nonsense. Being held accountable for mistakes is not "cancel culture." 

There is no "fact" that he should have done. There is just the opinion that he should have.

By his own standards and oractices he very much makes it a fact that he should of, or he is a literal liar, and cant be trusted, either way.

[Absentia13]

36 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Are you saying that the reason Steve did this is because he couldnt handle what someone said about him, so he did a hit piece, played it off as altruistic, and then defended that by saying its ok because they deserved it?

 

Like the whole statement is just.... Wow. I am impressed by the number of turns in your line of logic.

Uh no. Maybe read it again lol. 

[Biomancer81]

19 hours ago, bandainamcofan said:

There never was an ethical obligation to approach for comment. You are simply wrong in saying that there is.

Literally, by Steves own stated standards, there was.

[Biomancer81]

19 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I don't see that, I think the concern is LMG is going to use their labs so they can sound like a better source of data than anyone else because they're throwing tons of money at a lab and testing equpiment, but not taking the time to make sure the data is as a accurate as possible. If LMG puts up data that isn't accurate people will repeat misinformation then assume other channels like GN is wrong because they don't have a massive testing lab.

I went through the GN video again, and he didn't, but IMO that still wouldn't have changed anything, I don't think Steve had to be nice about it.

If that is what you believe, that is great, then GN should have actually oresented the LTT data, and their own data, and debated on the facts, instead of posting his obviously biased flame fest where he presents all these wrongs, but actually provides no data on why they are wrong. instead deferring to "Anyone can see this is wrong". That is true, but you figjt misinformation with correct information, unless that wasnt his goal.

 

Also his whole "I know you all want to k ow what our pratices are, and this video isnt about that..." comes off in a way that he knows what he is doing is wrong, but wants to do it anyway, so just ignore what we usualky say and do. or how we handle our own business, and just take all this for face value.

[Ooooffff8732]

lmao is the only cope now to blame GN, it could've been anyone and you'd call then non objective if they gain the slightest subs or viewcount. Lets be honest you simps want to desperately point at something to even get a slight distraction off of big L

[Biomancer81]

20 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I agree, both need to provide accurate information, and I think its even more important for LMG to provide more accurate information because of the influence they have on the tech community.  LMG bringing up ethics as if they did nothing wrong and its somehow GN's fault seems disingenuous to me, and feels like they're punching down at GN and LMG as they're able to provide good data, Linus thinks he can just throw money at the issue of accurate information when money isn't the issue.  Also LMG trying to make themselves look good is probably to get fans to side with them as well, as people keep being hyper focused on GN not asking for contact even though they didn't have to, when GN hasn't done anything wrong here.

I find it ironic that GN needed to ask for contact, yet LMG had thrown shade at them twice and didn't ask for contact to discuss things first or even apologize for making those comments.

And if people are still mad at GN and think they did it for "drama" at this point there isn't any way to get them to understand the important part of the discussion which isn't whether or not GN asked first.

What is GNs fault is they did not report all of the accurate data. They excluded context and implied things that they knew were misleading or untrue. It destriyed Steves credibility as someone who could be objective.

[Blademaster91]

53 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

You are lacking one point here. Steve benefits financially from tanking LMG. It makes his "reporting" lack objectivity, so no, it isnt the same thing ever.

 

And just to be clear, I dont mean he is going to make money from the video he demonitized. I mean long term there is evidence already that he is benefitting from views and subscribers, which means he didnt have to monitize one video to increase his profit overall.

 

He has lost his credibility as an objective reporter.

There really is no benefit for GN to go after LMG, given that LMG tried to put a positive spin with their video, and then gaslit everyone into thinking GN lied about Billet not being paid for the water block they auctioned off.

I don't see anyone trying to tank LMG, they're going to be just fine, but I do question if the LTT fans are going to be toxic and attack GN for even bringing up the mistakes LMG have made.

He didn't monetize that video out of fairness, he didn't want there being any sponsors to make it look like there is any conflict of interest, yet people are still insisting GN had some sort of interest for pointing out obvious mistakes that needed to be called out on.

Also if you've seen GN's video he says why he didn't ask first, he didn't have to, and he's done other videos calling out companies on bullsh%^ and didn't ask them first.

6 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Being objective, you know, the thing Steve claims to be, literally means, that you report all the facts regardless of if he feels a statement from LMG would benefit them. GN are the only people as the reporter, who should not benefit, because they are supposed to be the record of truth, by denying the comment it looks like they had something to hide, and their objectivity as well as their credibility are hurt.

What did GN deny though?

All of things he pointed out were out there as public info, that is exactly what being objective means.

[yoc]

1 minute ago, Emperor Anime said:

https://imgur.io/a/yhaxSiQ

Thank you!

[Biomancer81]

21 hours ago, bandainamcofan said:

That could be viewed giving LMG preferential treatment and thus an ethical violation. GN did not act unethically in this situation. 

It could be viewed that way, if and only if, Steve hadnt already been doing it with every other report.

 

The way it stands, just by treating ot differemtly this time, Steve has zero credibility and zero integrity.

[Kresnik-02]

I'm just going to leave this here. He didn't do it for the drama, sure.

[Biomancer81]

22 hours ago, bandainamcofan said:

It isn't, and you've been shown why, but you're obviously not interested in it. 

Do you think ethics are a codified thing, or do you know that ethics are something that is openly debated and agreed uppn set of standards that all people hold themselves up to?

 

If Steve wants to be a Journalist as he claims he does, then the ethical thing would have been to get the comment. In this case it was also the right thing to do. But that said the ethical thing and the right thing arent always the same.

 

You seem to be the one who has no interest in it.

[Biomancer81]

23 hours ago, kewtz said:

That’s an extreme stance. 

GN can make a video for anything he desires, and must be willing to accept any side effects, positive or negative. 

 

Many of us are quick to call out “emotions”, and while it’s subjective, our emotions aren’t 100% controllable, and trying to dismiss them is inhuman. We have emotions, it’s how we live. 

 

That said, it’s obvious that GN is passionate about objective reporting in the tech space and we can say he’s consistent. He has uploaded many videos about the inefficiencies of tech companies claiming to do good but they are misleading the customer. 

 

I like one of the comments in Steve’s video, consider this a peer review. When one doctor reviews a cancer study of another, it’s not “competition” or trying to harm a base, it’s ensuring bias of success isn’t clouding the 

23 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Except LTT threw shade at them first, doing it twice without asking GN. His treatment isn't any harsher than how he would treat any other company, asking first is not a requirement, and I don't see what GN would have to gain from this. They have the risk to lose much more than LTT/LMG would, GN could be upsetting a lot of viewers that also watch LTT and those viewers could side with Linus and unsubscribe from GN. And asking first wouldn't change the outcome of the video as GN has pointed out problems with things LTT have been doing for a while now, also the Billet labs issue probably would have never come up if GN had asked first, as Billet labs wasn't paid until GN put up the video.

 

You can honestly say that releasing a video that harms a competitor, which has proven now to have funneled subs and viewers to his channel, which will increase his financial standing is not a "gain"?

[starsmine]

10 minutes ago, Kresnik-02 said:

I'm just going to leave this here. He didn't do it for the drama, sure.

He. Did. NOT.

It is not correct to assume doing it for the drama because of view count. It is not just not correct, it is incredibly wrong.

 

  

3 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

You can honestly say that releasing a video that harms a competitor, which has proven now to have funneled subs and viewers to his channel, which will increase his financial standing is not a "gain"?

Competition is such a dumb way to look at this, Viewers are still going to watch both channels, not one or the other.

 

There is no conspiracy here.

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Thaldor said:

Welcome to the LTT community during shitstorm when YT, Reddit and whatever other platforms find the forums and raid it.

 

It's really not a joke or meme but even Linus has mentioned the fact that as whole he has very toxic following (mostly probably from the "entertaining" videos where nothing seems to go as planned and it pretty much boils down to chaos, something that pleases 14 year old teenagers with ADHD and too much money to spend on energy drinks).

Like the word "toxic" isn't enough, oh boy, not even half of it and things would be pretty much okay if it was ONLY these times when Linus is under attack, as in community is mostly against Linus. But nope.

Like there's a moment in history after which no one should be proud to call themselves part of Linus-fanclub and it has nothing to do with Linus but everything to do with the energy drink fueled ADHD fanclub. The keyword is Mindchop.

 

These forums usually are active but kind of don't even care about LTT that much, some will point out some videos and WAN show but generally just talk about tech and troubleshooting and fighting over fruit product company or someone tryinf to do something somewhere.

But not when the brown stuff hits the fan and there seems to be more couple days old accounts sprouting than mushrooms in rain.

Indeed, Linus knows some of his following is very toxic, he addresses this yet doesn't seem to tell them to stop, as Linus knows the toxic following will defend him no matter what when some controversy happens. The problem is something LMG created by making the chaotic content, or content aimed at a younger audience, with the constant innuendo jokes, or the ridiculously expensive PC builds, or things like the game controller made of gold.

The fanclubbing is very immature and I expect its mostly the younger audience, given the amount of new accounts coming in to come up with reasons to blame GN.  I usually like being on the forums because people are having other discussions, and I assume a lot of the people here posting regularly don't care about the LTT content. However a lot of the posts from people joining just to defend Linus because of a toxic para-social relationship makes the forum feel like reddit with all of the fighting and discussion going in a circle because someone wants to blame GN for not asking before making the video, even though GN has said why he didn't in his videos. 

[starsmine]

Look, I am a massive fan of LTT and have been since ncix days years before lmg. Been watching almost all of his videos as they come out since 2009.

 

Don't make up shit and conspiracies to defend LMG. Fans have been complaining for the last couple of years about bad data making it into the videos. This humbling moment for them and the upcoming change in SOPs will only improve the quality of lmg videos going forward. 
 

GN is not some enemy here. Chill out. 
 

There is a large portion of their form who activly dislike lmg videos because of the inaccuracies. I don’t understand why they hang out here with those views, however, this is a way to bring them back in as viewers to build their trust back.

[Biomancer81]

18 minutes ago, starsmine said:

He. Did. NOT.

It is not correct to assume doing it for the drama because of view count. It is not just not correct, it is incredibly wrong.

 

  

Competition is such a dumb way to look at this, Viewers are still going to watch both channels, not one or the other.

 

There is no conspiracy here.

I would take your comment at face value about competition had Steve literally not brought up the conflict of interest issie, but since he feels strongly about it, then he should acknowledge, based on his own interoretation of conflict of interest, that his video was definitly a conflict of interest.

 

He needs to hold himself to the standards he sets for others. If he doesnt he is a hypocrite and cannot be trusted in the way he claims he is.

[Thaldor]

15 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

It could be viewed that way, if and only if, Steve hadnt already been doing it with every other report.

 

The way it stands, just by treating ot differemtly this time, Steve has zero credibility and zero integrity.

Here you go:

(timestamped to 6:34)

 

The reaching out is completely just complimentary even in more traditional media. Some newspapers and news channels may have very strict rules about reaching out for a comment but they are still just complimentary and a lot of the time when the news piece is bit "spicy" you will see "X was contacted for input but didn't provide answer" which basicly translates into "10 minutes before pressing publish we send them an email and they didn't answer".

And yes, that is done by even the most respected publications.

 

As Steve says:
He doesn't reach out every time, he doesn't need to reach out every time to corporations when reporting on them. Period. With big corporation he doesn't reach out if the issue already harms the consumers or if their view is irrelevant. Any product he buys and reviews, he doesn't reach out because they are already doing harm.

He didn't need Linus's input or permission to do that video. LMGs videos are already affecting millions of consumers and their objective errors, which he covered objectively (Me: like the case where Linus goes "you can throw anything at Noctua NH-D15 and it handles it" while the very next graph shows NH-D15 not handling everything thrown at it but a CPU thermal throttling) and Linus's response is to move the discussion over why he wasn't allowed to get input on the first video (Me: Because he would have done what he did, turn it into "oh, it's already handled and made right" while actually Coltons email got lost into their bureaucracy and the first thing Linus did before writing the response was to reach out to Billet by himself making sure that "the problem is being handled" and he doesn't lie saying "it's under control").

 

And still that is A LOT more than Linus has done even in the close past. Like with the Billet Labs where he right out denied his writer to make the test properly because it would have costed him money and it wouldn't have changed his stand about the product. That is way further away from objective reviewing with trustful and correct testing than not giving Linus "gas-molecule" Sebastian chance to respond in private and probably start to do damage control before all of his mistakes are thrown into the public.

[Biomancer81]

5 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Here you go:

(timestamped to 6:34)

 

The reaching out is completely just complimentary even in more traditional media. Some newspapers and news channels may have very strict rules about reaching out for a comment but they are still just complimentary and a lot of the time when the news piece is bit "spicy" you will see "X was contacted for input but didn't provide answer" which basicly translates into "10 minutes before pressing publish we send them an email and they didn't answer".

And yes, that is done by even the most respected publications.

 

As Steve says:
He doesn't reach out every time, he doesn't need to reach out every time to corporations when reporting on them. Period. With big corporation he doesn't reach out if the issue already harms the consumers or if their view is irrelevant. Any product he buys and reviews, he doesn't reach out because they are already doing harm.

He didn't need Linus's input or permission to do that video. LMGs videos are already affecting millions of consumers and their objective errors, which he covered objectively (Me: like the case where Linus goes "you can throw anything at Noctua NH-D15 and it handles it" while the very next graph shows NH-D15 not handling everything thrown at it but a CPU thermal throttling) and Linus's response is to move the discussion over why he wasn't allowed to get input on the first video (Me: Because he would have done what he did, turn it into "oh, it's already handled and made right" while actually Coltons email got lost into their bureaucracy and the first thing Linus did before writing the response was to reach out to Billet by himself making sure that "the problem is being handled" and he doesn't lie saying "it's under control").

 

And still that is A LOT more than Linus has done even in the close past. Like with the Billet Labs where he right out denied his writer to make the test properly because it would have costed him money and it wouldn't have changed his stand about the product. That is way further away from objective reviewing with trustful and correct testing than not giving Linus "gas-molecule" Sebastian chance to respond in private and probably start to do damage control before all of his mistakes are thrown into the public.

But as I have seen all the other videos he has done, he always has reached out. It is convienient in thos case that he said that the 

 

You are then arguing that no person other than Steve is capable of looking at both pieces of informatiom and forming a conclusion. By not giving Linus a voice, it looks like he is hiding some information. His argument is basically that "my viewers are too stupid to see through a smoke screen, so I wont give them the chance to put one up."

 

The majority of people are smart enough to hear what Steve said and Linus response on the video, and figure it out, by leaving it out he has only damaged his own reputation.