Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[BigFatTeddy]

3 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Well I mean isn't it tho? Its so advanced I can't even begin to explain lithography. Im pretty sure if I could I would be working in a FAB. Those are very closely guarded secrets because it literally runs every electronic device in our lives.

 

Anything that has a chip - Your PC, Car, Computer, TV, Monitor, Coffee Maker, Phone, Heater, AC, Microwave, Oven, literally everything that isn't like the most basic piece of electrical equipment like a light bulb.

 

They all have chips that are fundamentally built upon transistors. So really, transistors themselves are 100% responsible for modern society and technology - at least thats how I see and understand it.

Dude, you left me speechless. Breaking down everything to transistors is a brilliant move. Not sure in what direction, but dude, I didn't see that one coming.

 

Btw. if you wanna have an explanation of photolithography, you can find it on the level-5-tech site called Wikipedia. Just search for Photolithography, it's a good 45-minute read.

 

That post really caught me off-guard.

[eece_ret]

1 minute ago, hmfaysal said:

Man, I know. I was referring to Dory from Finding Nemo and Finding Dory. Crap, thats a literal childrens movie line

[WallacEngineering]

1 minute ago, BigFatTeddy said:

Dude, you left me speechless. Breaking down everything to transistors is a brilliant move. Not sure in what direction, but dude, I didn't see that one coming.

 

Btw. if you wanna have an explanation of photolithography, you can find it on the level-5-tech site called Wikipedia. Just search for Photolithography, it's a good 45-minute read.

 

That post really caught me off-guard.

 

Oh s*** ur gonna try to explode my brains now aren't you? Lol ah I wasn't ready for this today

 

I remember when I first saw this, I still can't understand even like half of it but holy hell it still blows my mind:

 

 

[eece_ret]

 

[WolframaticAlpha]

5 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

You can have different types of prototypes; and this one would be a prototype that you send out for the purpose of getting exposure of your product.  LMG videos get the most views, if their thought was that LMG would test it properly and find the results good enough that they use it for lets say the baseline testing; it makes sense to let LMG keep it (under the concept that LMG will be either using your product to generate results, with the hope that it's mentioned or seen).

They expressly stated that their development was held up because the prototype wasn't returned and that that was their one best prototype. It seems a bit fishy.

[hmfaysal]

17 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

not in the same weight class and not even in the same topic class either

but actually take a LOOK at LTT views... GN topped around 1,2m before the LTT video... with 2 million subs...
LTT before the GN video is about 1-1,5m per video... so "only" 2-3x more VIEWS... but they have 13,5 MILLION more subs... so actually GN isn't THAT far behind them in views (which is what matters) yes much fewer subs but they don't convert, views does. there is some videos nearing 3m so they can go up to like 6x the views but they are a bit far between...

so wouldn't scuff at GN because of that, he seems to be doing pretty well

Hey, are you guys looking for accurate data or what? Steve made such a big fuss about accuracy a couple of days ago. You are comparing GN's top view with LTT's average view. Why isn't the comparison apples to apples? Why is is apples to sandals? Is it because Apples = Steve and Linus = Sandals?

[Zackeires]

20 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Well I mean isn't it tho? Its so advanced I can't even begin to explain lithography. Im pretty sure if I could I would be working in a FAB. Those are very closely guarded secrets because it literally runs every electronic device in our lives.

 

Anything that has a chip - Your PC, Car, Computer, TV, Monitor, Coffee Maker, Phone, Heater, AC, Microwave, Oven, literally everything that isn't like the most basic piece of electrical equipment like a light bulb.

 

They all have chips that are fundamentally built upon transistors. So really, transistors themselves are 100% responsible for modern society and technology - at least thats how I see and understand it.

 

[hmfaysal]

2 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

They expressly stated that their development was held up because the prototype wasn't returned and that that was their one best prototype. It seems a bit fishy.

Its completely fishy. Billet Labs, which is not a laboratory, guys were butthurt. Plain and simple. Not emotionally restraint. 

[eece_ret]

4 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

They expressly stated that their development was held up because the prototype wasn't returned and that that was their one best prototype. It seems a bit fishy.

They expressly stated that LMG would keep the device.... Then asked for it back after the review.  Why was there a unexpected hold up if they didn't expect to get it back.  Seems a bit fishy

[eece_ret]

7 minutes ago, Zackeires said:

 

 

[Godiwa]

6 minutes ago, eece_ret said:

They expressly stated that LMG would keep the device.... Then asked for it back after the review.  Why was there a unexpected hold up if they didn't expect to get it back.  Seems a bit fishy

because they asked for it back after the review after Linus messed that up grandly... and then they expected to get it back then not two months later  if they didn't expect it back they would have started making another 2 months ago... simple...

[Biomancer81]

1 hour ago, Godiwa said:

well apparently just over 2 millions likes true information... wouldn't call him dry but yeah people with short attentionspans brag about speeding up to 2x speed etc. I would call him extremely thorough though, which can sometimes be a it much... But he also fight for us users to keep companies from doing scummy things that hurts us users, I can appreciate that, not many want to do that, since it has a cost (no freebies from companies and such if they feel called out) but they could just make proper products and not try to scam users (or burn down their homes because they cheaped out on the products due to greed)

Yeah, it was definitely altruistic act and not greed that drove Steve to attacl a direct competitor.

 

He stands to gain financially from his  "journalistic report", and that makes him the biggest hypocrite.

 

You know what I see, tons of people admitting that LMG needs to get it stuff in order but also saying the way Steve handled it was wrong. You know what I dont see is anyone on the GN side of things willing to admit Steve handled this wrong, and that he will benefit from it.

 

It jist seems weird so many people defending a man who holds himself to the "highest journalistic standards" when he blatently violates the standards he purports to uphold. It takes away all credibility. At least LMG has owned up to their issues.

[WolframaticAlpha]

15 minutes ago, eece_ret said:

They expressly stated that LMG would keep the device.... Then asked for it back after the review.  Why was there a unexpected hold up if they didn't expect to get it back.

16 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

Its completely fishy. Billet Labs, which is not a laboratory, guys were butthurt. Plain and simple. Not emotionally restraint. 

I don't know, but it does feel like Billet is definitely obscuring some details. They never revealed to GN that they asked LTT to keep the prototype(even if it was just a marketing prototype), then they claim that their development was held up because LTT failed to return it. I don't find it unlikely that Billet painted an unfair picture of LTT because of the poor(quality wise) and negative review.

 

This is why it is EXTREMELY OBVIOUS that LTT's comment was needed, because it seems that Steve and team were misled by Billet which led to viewers also being misled. There was extremely important context missing from the story and it just proves why every serious piece of investigatory journalism does reach out to the parties involved. But I guess the hate mob spawned (unitentionally) by Steve just led to everyone jumping to conclusions before actually seeing the second part of the story.

 

I feel that GNs coverage of the inaccuracies was good, if slightly hampered by added commentary by Steve, but still it highlighted the issues that the severe crunch had. However, the questions raised about ethics, seem to relate more to poor judgement of a person who has significant(if not too much) control over the editorial direction of the coverage of the company.

 

Billet's issues would've been explained quite well as a series of poor internal communications systems rearing it's head in the worst way possible. But the spin on the video initially seemed that LMG had intentionally auctioned off the block, which instantly made me skeptical.

 

8 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

because they asked for it back after the review after Linus messed that up grandly

>send a supposed one of a kind prototype to a media company, one that would hold up development for weeks, if not months

>'' keep it if you want to ''

> Review isn't good

> Hey guys can we get that prototype back?

 

Seems strange or exceptionally stupid.

[LyraDarkwalker]

On 8/14/2023 at 1:58 PM, osgalaxy said:

Linus Media Group response:

https://youtu.be/0cTpTMl8kFY

 

 

 

From the video

 

I am glad that LMG is making these changes. However, I do think they were already somewhat aware of them and they could have been brought up in a WAY more constructive manner. I also hope people don't see GN as the good guys in this situation. Their video is not constructive and is not charitable in many ways. They backed them into a corner because LMG does not have the option to say, "we will listen to this criticism, but are also very unhappy with how it was delivered" as everyone would say they're blaming others (already sort of happened when Linus responded initially). Several clips and quotes are taken out of context and interpreted in a manner that assumes the worst of Linus (in both the initial video and the response video). It is also unclear to me what GN's end goal was other than to take this as an opportunity to get one over on LMG.

 

In my opinion, going about this the way they did could have very well resulted in LMG layoffs and a severe decline in the quality of their videos. As not only do they need to implement changes they were already planning to implement (albeit this has forced them to implement them faster and maybe made some of them more imminent than they previously thought), they also have to deal with a negative backlash mostly due to the severe lack of clarity in the GN video. Which in itself contradicts the claim that this was for the betterment of the community. Linus had just talked about a need for more community input and interaction in reference to video mistakes on one of the more recent WAN shows, but said that it was something that would take time and maybe require new hires (aka he wasn't trying to put more on his current employees. GN's video forces this, forces rushing). Now people who already had other responsibilities are going to have to also help with that since this GNs video forces them to rush (especially now that the community is digging up every speck of dirt they can find every second they don't do something).

 

Not to mention, Linus brought in a new CEO because he at least some self awareness that handling things like HR and other business related tasks were not his strong suit. That CEO is still new and is still observing. Luckily, they were able to respond in such a positive way and this video is testament to their clear devotion to improvement (I thought the jokes and LTT plug was them showing that they're still devoted to keeping the fun LMG personality in their videos, and was also a way to keep things somewhat lighthearted for staff members that have and continue to work hard). The same devotion that I felt the community was super fast to forget when they all jumped on the opportunity to hate on them (hardware unboxed started a podcast 1 day after the GN video and GN definitely editorialized this).

 

With the pace they've been going, a huge mistake like this was likely to occur, so I do think they need to slow down. However, GN did have a sponsor in the follow-up, they were very uncharitable in the way they presented Linus's response, and they speak as though Linus is solely responsible for all of this (but only when it is convenient and changing to calling LMG a big corporation when it's narratively convenient). Also, it would be one thing if this was targeted at a creator with a reputation of not responding to criticism kindly, but LMG has a track record of being open to criticism when delivered in a polite/appropriate manner. LMG is not a huge corporation relatively and actively says they want to support everyone in the community in order to continuously improve as a whole (this was also conveniently cut out in the GN video when they show Linus's response to the LTX controversy). Meaning they would never make a video the way GN did, and they would never attempt to editorialize the mistakes of others in such a negative uncharitable way. As someone (GN) who was supposedly looking out for the betterment of user experience and the tech community, it would have been way kinder to reach out to LTT for comment first! However, if GN did that they would have had a harder time making a news story/hit piece that would garnish a high view count.

 

This whole situation has been incredibly disheartening in my opinion. I feel like in a lot of ways LMG is trying to break the norm and create a new kind of company where community input matters and transparency is at the forefront. It is refreshing, and I feel like there has been a lot more pros than cons. That being said, whenever you try to break a decades old mold, you are bound to make big lapses in judgement. Rather than be charitable to Linus/team and take into account the MANY instances that he and other LMG employees have shown upstanding character, people were extremely quick to make him and others out to be evil. This makes me feel like it's impossible for a company to both have a far reach and be honest/transparent. 

 

As far as the allegations go, I think that was mostly a consequence of poor processes and stupidity. I believe Linus struggled to fire people who should have maybe been fired. Hopefully by putting someone else in charge they can take stronger actions against any employees who are bringing the team down. I also believe that these matters are more personal and I am hesitant to provide too much of an opinion without the entire story. I do think they will and need to make major changes in that regard and I think brining in a third party was a smart choice (should have happened a lot earlier). 

 

I personally think the initial communication from Billet Labs when they sent the cooler is important (and not shown from what I have seen). From the screenshots I have seen, it seems like they made LTT think it was theirs to keep (I believe that they said something like, yes, we did say you could keep but didn't know it would be auctioned). I do think asking before auctioning would have been right and a smart decision, but if they were under the impression that it was theirs to keep, then I don't think it's as big of a deal. 

 

The response from Linus was far from unhinged and it is sad that he had to make a video where he essentially allows everyone to blame him for everything. His initial response was maybe rash, but it was coming from someone who has put blood, sweat, and tears to improving the tech community and was likely very hurt by how quick everyone was to villainize him - I imagine he cried A LOT and I believe he did not deserve the harshness that was the consequence of a dishonest/uncharitable editorial hit piece. PLEASE watch Linus's entire commentary on the LTX controversy which starts at 2 hours and 19 minutes to see for yourself how uncharitably GN presented their response. 

[Biomancer81]

2 hours ago, Cl0udK1ller said:

Why is LTT hasnt respond to the conflict of interest with their sponsors?  

 

 

Why hasnt Steve responded to the question of conflict of interest in making his video. He stands to gain financially, and LTT is a competitor, so by his own definition what he did was a conflict of interest?

[Biomancer81]

2 hours ago, Taylor Ford said:

I'm baffled what you mean by 'should have planned better', if they send out a prototype to a large channel and they don't give it back and somehow, it's Billet Labs fault? If you lost a library book, is it the library's fault? 

They never expected to get it back when they sent it. They only asked for it back after the negative review, so according to their own planning, they didnt even need it.

 

Was what happened wrong after that? Yes. Are GN and Billet labs misconstrueing that fact, for what seems like personal gain? Absolutely, also yes.

[Uttamattamakin]

2 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

They never expected to get it back when they sent it. They only asked for it back after the negative review, so according to their own planning, they didnt even need it.

 

Was what happened wrong after that? Yes. Are GN and Billet labs misconstrueing that fact, for what seems like personal gain? Absolutely, also yes.

Their one of a kind prototype... you really buy that?  

I've got some land in downtown Chicago to sell you.   It was left to me by my uncle Grant. 

[Biomancer81]

2 hours ago, Taylor Ford said:

 

To my understanding of the Billet Labs situation, they've asked for their block back since June, after LTT finished the vid. LTT kept saying they'll send it back and they didn't...until August, LTT then informed Billet Labs they've auctioned off the block. At that point, Billet Labs assumed it to be a lost cause and asked for compensation, which has been the same ever since. The first agreement had always been asking the block back, up until the auction. 

Are you denying that the information in the email from Billet Labs themselves originally said keep it (i.e. They gifted it to LTT), and after the bad review, asked for it back?

 

We all agree what happened after they asked for it back was bad. Casting it as having financially catastrophic to Billet Labs is just plain disingenuous.

[Gianluca Angeli]

7 minutes ago, Biomancer81 said:

Why hasnt Steve responded to the question of conflict of interest in making his video. He stands to gain financially, and LTT is a competitor, so by his own definition what he did was a conflict of interest?

bro what

[hmfaysal]

1 minute ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Their one of a kind prototype... you really buy that?  

I've got some land in downtown Chicago to sell you.   It was left to me by my uncle Grant. 

I give you 2 million dollos. One dollar for each sub Steve has for this land. 

[hmfaysal]

Just now, Gianluca Angeli said:

bro what

Yes, GianLuca, YES. Steve thought he would gain financially from this. Not from the expose video itself, but from newer releases. 

[Goriss]

Linus should took those 100m and RUN RUN RUN as fast as possible. Now his company is evaluated at approximately 2$

[Sho2048]

1 minute ago, hmfaysal said:

Yes, GianLuca, YES. Steve thought he would gain financially from this. Not from the expose video itself, but from newer releases. 

Do you mean people doing their job might have a financial interest in doing their job?

You don't say?

[hmfaysal]

Just now, Goriss said:

Linus should took those 100m and RUN RUN RUN as fast as possible. Now his company is evaluated at approximately 2$

Nah, its still sitting at approx 100 mils, maybe slightly more, with the merch dept growing. 

[Biomancer81]

3 hours ago, Godiwa said:

really? they made a deal... LMG makes a video/review about the product and if they do they could keep it...

they totally butch it and pee on the product for no reason because they are imbecils using wrong gpu and then trash talk it... so they broke the agreement... of course they ask for it back... which LMG agreed to... and then poof sold it... oh wait "auctioned it"...

"do job => get paid"
"break deal => no pay"

The Job was to do a review, not give a good review. They did the review.

 

If you defend the line of thinking you present, then you are actually defending against what GN implied. You are literally saying it is ok to Pay for Good Reviews.