Tesla releases software update to prevent Car windows from jamming their customers' fingers

[AlTech]

Summary

Tesla and the NHTSA have announced via a product recall that Tesla has released a new software update for their cars to prevent the car windows from jamming their customers' fingers, arms, etc.

 

The issue affects the following Tesla Cars:

• Tesla Model S cars manufactured between 2021 and 2022
• Tesla Model X cars manufactured between 2021 and 2022
• Tesla Model 3 cars manufactured between 2017 and 2022
• Tesla Model Y cars manufactured between 2020 and 2022

 

Quotes

Quote

The fault was identified by Tesla technicians late last month, and after weeks of testing the automaker has produced an over-the-air firmware update to fix it. The good news is most Tesla customers will thus be spared a trip to the dealership to install it.

Quote

Specifically, the software fix, we're told, will recalibrate the vehicle’s automatic window reversal system to avoid potential injuries. Meanwhile, vehicles delivered to customers after September 13 have already been patched to mitigate the issue.

 

My thoughts

 Yet again, Tesla is experience issues that other automakers faced decades ago but Tesla is only just experiencing it now. I think Tesla needs to focus more on making cars rather than keep on going with their tactic of aggressively building computers on wheels and hoping the software can fix it later. One day Tesla is gonna run into a car problem it can't solve via a software update and that'll be a very expensive day for Tesla.

 

Sources

https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/22/tesla_update_nhtsa_fingers/

[An0maly_76]

Quite frankly, this is just thwarting Darwinism in my eyes. If you're dumb enough to close the window with any part of your body in the way, you deserve what you get. But Tesla has already drawn the ire of quite a few people, one guy even blew his up after Tesla refused to help him out with a battery that didn't last its 'projected' service life, and others seem to be following suit. If they continue to treat the people that spend thousands to buy and its products the way they are, they're not going to be around very long. Sorry, but for $140,000, a EV's battery should last a bit longer than that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwudl4JsLv0

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=i+blew+up+my+tesla

 

ADDED: Not to mention, these vehicles seem to be anything but equal in safety to their ICE counterparts. I've heard of several fires, explosions, and a fellow over-the-road trucker who took a job as a tow operator, says they are towing at least one or two of these things to a charging station every day. A fool and their money are soon parted, I say.

Edited September 25, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[leadeater]

What if I wanted to keep that "feature"? 

 

Also seems like such a basic thing, surely there is more to this and it's an edge case...

[Dedayog]

Doesn't every other car manufacturer have this "feature" already built in?  

[leadeater]

34 minutes ago, Dedayog said:

Doesn't every other car manufacturer have this "feature" already built in?  

Yes, so does Tesla. It's a change to this, they just don't say the circumstances for how/why/what the issue actually is. So I'm curious as to what that is.

[AlwaysFSX]

I'm sorry what? I barely touch a speedbump and my window rolls back down just in case, how did this not get caught in testing?

[Spindel]

Or you have the solution that has worked well since the advent of electric car windows:

 

No computer chips, just a switch to a electrical motor and a (mechanical) motor protection if the motor experiences any resistance out of the ordinary.

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yet again, Tesla is experience issues that other automakers faced decades ago but Tesla is only just experiencing it now. I think Tesla needs to focus more on making cars rather than keep on going with their tactic of aggressively building computers on wheels and hoping the software can fix it later. One day Tesla is gonna run into a car problem it can't solve via a software update and that'll be a very expensive day for Tesla.

Other automakers are just as prone to mess up.  Having the key ignition being something they had fixed decades ago...oh wait, 2014.  Let's ignore the fact that Tesla has been rated one of the safest vehicle and also ignore all examples of the other manufactures messing up.  This is simply a software fix, your supposed claim I could make about all those legacy automotive manufactures who require physical recalls to fix issues that should be software fixes.

 

Mercedes

Finger chopped off by a door

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mercedes-benz-under-fire-after-a-soft-close-door-chopped-off-owner-s-finger-180288.html

 

 

Ford

Let's also see, all Ford Mach-e's have a recall notice for literally a design defect that could leave you stranded (because they undersized the electrical system).

Ford literally mocked Tesla's for their windshields falling off, and yet Ford was the one who had to recall their vehicle because so many of them had the windshield flying off.

Mach-e's axles had an issue https://insideevs.com/news/608058/ford-mustang-mache-recall-failing-half-shafts/

 

GM

As late as 2014 GM had an ignition issue, which they knew about and didn't issue a recall.

Bolt - entire fleet was recalled (after the software recall failed) with a battery fire. 

 

Mazda was able to have the center console bricked by a radio station https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/02/radio-station-snafu-in-seattle-bricks-some-mazda-infotainment-systems/

 

Chrysler

Shifter recall (another thing that is suppose to have perfected years ago)

 

Toyota

Toyota recalled due to their skid system not working correctly https://www.autoblog.com/buy/2021-Toyota-Sienna/recalls/

e-brake not being engaged https://media.toyota.ca/releases/toyota-is-conducting-a-safety-recall-involving-certain-toyota-vehicles-6878169
 

 

No manufacturer is immune to recalls, ultimately I'd prefer a vehicle that can be fixed OTA than one that has constant recalls for physical ones.  I can't speak to the accuracy (as I can't find their original source) but there's this.  https://twitter.com/stocktalkweekly/status/1572916458488844288/photo/1

 

Will Tesla eventually have something they can't fix via software?  Sure, but I'd rather a company that's able to fix a lot of the issues with OTA updates than having to drag in the vehicle to fix it.

 

The TL;DR.  This is a simple fix, of which there hasn't been any reported injuries (the system is still in place, it's just on occasion it exceeds the threshold).  Lots of manufactures end up with recalls, this doesn't make Tesla special in anyway.  [In fact the old automotive ones have been known to hide issues because they know they can't fix it through software and they literally weigh the fact that if they wait and pay out for issues they will "lose" less money than if they just outright fix it]

 

5 hours ago, leadeater said:

Also seems like such a basic thing, surely there is more to this and it's an edge case...

Based on how they found it, yea I'm betting it's a very rare kind of event really...since all the vehicle models would have had to go through the validation process, so at least in most scenarios it must be behaving within the guidelines.  It apparently took them like 6 days to analyze their tests, and about 2 weeks to do all the testing...so that to me says it's very very edge case.  They seem to imply in the recall it had to be in specific states for it to exceed it...so I'm guessing they will just have to slightly tweak the sensitivity (or maybe fix a few rounding errors)

[Arika]

Who closes a window with their fingers in it?

 

Are people stupid?

[Senzelian]

They simply need to pull an Apple and claim they've just invented "non-finger-jamming windows" and call it something fancy like "Tesla Fancy Glass" 

[TetraSky]

3 hours ago, Arika S said:

Who closes a window with their fingers in it?

 

Kids do. And kids are stupid. Just like how there's people who slams the door on their fingers.

[StDragon]

13 hours ago, leadeater said:

What if I wanted to keep that "feature"? 

 

Also seems like such a basic thing, surely there is more to this and it's an edge case...

Cigars and fingers

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, Arika S said:

Who closes a window with their fingers in it?

 

Are people stupid?

Mainly kids, or if you have your fingers/arm out the window as a passenger and the driver decides to close the passenger side window.

 

 

 

Honestly though, I don't really get how this can qualify as tech news.  The only real thing that is maybe tech is that they are doing it with OTA update.  Otherwise if this is starting to be accepted then the Bolt recall should be tech news, or any other recall that is done with OTA updates should be tech news.

 

Oh and @AluminiumTech decided to get one more recall to show how ignorant your view point is

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2022/RCLRPT-22V542-2641.PDF

Literal volkswagon needing to recall due to the sunroof having a potential pinch issue.

[An0maly_76]

10 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

No manufacturer is immune to recalls

This much is true, a lot of the reason this GM diehard (a few Fords in my taxi days) now drives a Toyota. My 79-year-old father is on his second Hyundai after a very bad experience with a 2016 Impala. My 2016 Malibu (new body style - the 2012-2015s are better) was a supreme disappointment, with problems nearly from the day I bought it, and dealers seemed too intent on fabricating BS to put the blame on me to actually fix it (blow-by, transmission and CV axle issues) with an extended warranty I paid extra for. Car had 61k when I bought it. Traded it at 86k, about nine months as an Uber driver.

 

Engineers for Ford, at least, admits to only designing vehicles to last long enough to for the warranty. They don't care what happens after that, and their own dealer service techs would give a month's pay for five minutes alone in a room with them. As for Toyota and their woes, most of their problems come from their BS 10,000 mile oil change interval they've devised (to save money on their costs of included service), which majorly damages cylinder walls and piston rings.

 

Secondly, this skid control recall probably ties in with the POS 8-speed automatic trans from 2018+. This was why I turned down a 2018 with 600 miles on it at $4,000 under invoice. The 2012-2017 6-speed auto is far better. I've rented a few of these when my 2016 required service I couldn't wait around for, so I can verify the consumers complaining about the newer transmission aren't whistling Dixie by a long shot.

 

I can verify consumer complaints of this 8-speed auto jerking and shifting rough / late -- I've rented these when my 2016 required service I couldn't wait around for. Elective bodywork at at purchase, a $265 dealer transmission fluid exchange, and a coolant pump / flush (dealer wanted $1000 , was done elsewhere for $450, barely seeped and service writer stated it could go out leaving the dealership). At any rate, glad I held out for an earlier model. Wasn't looking to buy that day anyway, got talked into looking at some vehicles while waiting for a detail.

 

This is just further proof that corporate America has ruined everything and has zero interest in customer loyalty. I laugh at GM's ads about their JD Power awards for initial quality -- that's the only merit they have, the junk they build these days is falling apart at 60k, and I remember pulling 200,000-mile Buicks and Oldsmobiles out of the bushes at salvage yards, jump-starting them and driving them home. That old 231 / 3.8 / 3800 Buick V6 engine was legendary (made Ward's Top 10 Engines) and GM"s decision to cancel it in 2009 is one of the dumbest moves they ever made. Those salvage-yard Buicks and Oldsmobiles became daily drivers for several years, some even became taxicabs.

 

Today, I wouldn't trust a Big Three product built after about 2000-2005, some before that. I keep trying to tell my buddy to keep his 240,000 mile LeSabre, rebuild the transmission and replace the timing chain, as I've seen those cars go 300-500k and most everything else that's a wear item has been replaced. But he won't listen and keeps talking about newer Chrysler products that I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy. Tech can be a good thing, but there's entirely too much of it in new cars, to say it is experimental would be giving it too much credit, and and it's conveniently not covered by warranty when it fails. And for what? To placate lazy, stupid people into believing they don't have to pay attention when driving anymore?

Edited September 25, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[darknessblade]

How do you even get your fingers jammed between the window and the frame?

[tim0901]

16 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

 Yet again, Tesla is experience issues that other automakers faced decades ago but Tesla is only just experiencing it now. I think Tesla needs to focus more on making cars rather than keep on going with their tactic of aggressively building computers on wheels and hoping the software can fix it later. One day Tesla is gonna run into a car problem it can't solve via a software update and that'll be a very expensive day for Tesla.

9 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Other automakers are just as prone to mess up.  Having the key ignition being something they had fixed decades ago...oh wait, 2014.  Let's ignore the fact that Tesla has been rated one of the safest vehicle and also ignore all examples of the other manufactures messing up.  This is simply a software fix, your supposed claim I could make about all those legacy automotive manufactures who require physical recalls to fix issues that should be software fixes.

While I agree that all manufacturers are prone to product recalls, and that OP is potentially barking up the wrong tree here, it's not wrong to say that Tesla has a lot to improve vs traditional car manufacturers in many areas.

 

For example, Tesla has the second-lowest reliability score of any car manufacturer according to Consumer Trends, with the Model Y coming in as one of the 10 least reliable cars they've tested. J.D.Power's dependability survey also ranked them at 30 of 33 manufacturers tested in 2021, with owners of 3-year-old vehicles reporting 176 problems per 100 vehicles over the last 12 months (compared to 81 for Lexus, who came in 1st). J.D.Power's Initial Quality survey also shows that Tesla's build quality is amongst the worst in the business, placing them 31st in 2021 with an average of 231 problems reported per 100 vehicles at the time of delivery.

 

In Germany, over 10% of Model S's fail their 3-year TUV safety inspections (a mandatory test all road vehicles there are required to pass after being on the road for 3,5,7 etc. years - an equivalent to an MOT in the UK). At a 10.7% failure rate, the Model S has the third highest failure rate of all cars and the worst for EVs.

 

Other manufacturers absolutely have issues, but when Tesla is repeatedly at the bottom of charts such as these, it's hard to argue that they have some serious problems to solve when it comes to being a good car manufacturer.

[Senzelian]

3 hours ago, wanderingfool2 said:

Honestly though, I don't really get how this can qualify as tech news.  The only real thing that is maybe tech is that they are doing it with OTA update.  Otherwise if this is starting to be accepted then the Bolt recall should be tech news, or any other recall that is done with OTA updates should be tech news.

I don't see how this is not tech related. Imo you can post a news article about a new washing machine if you want to. So yeah, even a recall of the Bolt is tech news, if it's recalled due to a technical reason. If it's just recalled because the seats are the wrong color, then no, I would assume it's not tech news. But either way, it's not up to us to decide that anyway.

 

Edit: I guess you could argue that this is not relevant tech news, but as you can see people are clearly interested in it on this forum. So I'd say it should stay. The post I made about Germany's national roaming is definitely tech, but gets of course way less views.

[Jito463]

I've long had a solution to this problem.

 

Spoiler

 

[Kev]

Absolute nothing burger.Traditional auto manufactures have similar recalls and so-called "optional updates" all the time but because BMW Mini isn't a Tech Company you don't hear about it. Some current Mini Cooper model have the opposite issue, where you can't roll the windows up. They roll up, then as soon as encountering  tiny amount of resistance from hitting the top of the window frame they roll back down as if your head was being hit.

 

You can have the dealer fix it was an "optional software update" but it's never been recalled so you won't hear about it.

 

This is just one step of Tesla moving from being a "Startup Indie Tech Darling" to being a for real Serious Auto Maker.

[Kisai]

On 9/24/2022 at 5:39 PM, An0maly_76 said:

Quite frankly, this is just thwarting Darwinism in my eyes. If you're dumb enough to close the window with any part of your body in the way, you deserve what you get.

 

18 hours ago, Arika S said:

Who closes a window with their fingers in it?

 

Are people stupid?

Children, pets, and adults who have poor risk management.

 

Have you ever been in the backseat of a car when "dad" locked the car on you? Do you convince the child to roll down the window, or do you break the window?  Because the dog has a greater risk of releasing the brakes on the car if you lure them to the drivers seat than a child.

 

It's better, overall in design if the window uses some kind mechanical limiter than an electronic one. 

[An0maly_76]

38 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

Children, pets, and adults who have poor risk management.

 

Have you ever been in the backseat of a car when "dad" locked the car on you? Do you convince the child to roll down the window, or do you break the window?  Because the dog has a greater risk of releasing the brakes on the car if you lure them to the drivers seat than a child.

 

It's better, overall in design if the window uses some kind mechanical limiter than an electronic one. 

You do realize that in order for this window feature to be any use in this situation, the child would have to put their arm out the window while it was being run up prior to being locked in the car. With my Toyota (and most other cars), the retained accessory feature cancels when the door is opened. After that, only the door locks can be actuated.

 

And let's get real, the door lock tab on any interior door can be flipped to allow exit, so luring / coaxing to the driver's seat to unlock the doors is not necessary. All anyone need do is instruct the child to calm down and flip the physical tab in the interior door handle to unlock the door. All cars have it, this is a simple relocation of the old rods / knobs that used to poke through the upper interior door panel.

 

The root cause of the problem here is clueless, inept people expecting machines to do their thinking for them because they can't be bothered to. Old adage says, make something idiot-proof, a better idiot will come along. People never cease to amaze me when I wonder just how clueless they can be. And it's mostly due to lack of education, or the simple fact that people don't know or want to know until they're in trouble or otherwise screw up.

 

As for the latter, no, I have never experienced my parents locking me in the car with the windows up. Not that leaving a child unattended in a car is 100% kosher anyway, but now we're getting into clueless, inattentive and irresponsible people that should not be parents, or pet owners. Children and pets are a responsibility that you can't just address when you think about it or get around to it.

 

As an aside, most newer vehicles have immobilizers built-in to their engine management electronics, so in this day of smartphone digital key apps, cars that can be summoned driverlessly and park themselves, I don't understand why something can't be implemented for such emergencies to allow anyone to enact a 'emergency' mode to unlock the vehicle's doors, but disable all other electronics for 30-60 minutes so that the engine cannot be started. Of course, car thieves have been known to tow cars if they want them bad enough, but that's another issue entirely.

 

Another idea I have here is to have the occupancy sensors in airbag-equipped seats (many use this for seatbelt warnings) disallow locking the doors and trigger a unique pattern of horn blasts and light flashes until the occupancy sensor is cleared (by removing the child).

 

Of course, as stated earlier, this all has only become necessary because people don't want to be bothered to pay attention or think about what they're doing. As so many say, "Oh, nobody does that, nobody pays attention to that". Their ineptitude and refusal to think forces auto manufacturers to put more money into engineering systems to counter their cluelessness, then they wonder why vehicles cost four to six times what they used to.

 

As I said, it's thwarting Darwinism. I'm not perfect, I've locked myself out of several vehicles, either due to poor placement of power lock buttons or simply forgetting to take the key with me. I've never had to break a window and on vehicles with frequent occurrence, I learned to have a spare key somewhere I could get to it. But I've only ever had to do that on one car, and one particular type of semi truck when I drove those.

Edited September 26, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[wanderingfool2]

10 hours ago, tim0901 said:

the Model Y coming in as one of the 10 least reliable cars they've tested

The same report which asked customers had Tesla as the vehicle that people were most satisfied with.  Another issue is that some of the conclusions CR used to reach that other manufactures had similar things (and even got to point of recalls).  They also include trim misalignment as being unreliable.

 

Out of everything, Tesla's trim alignment I think is the biggest issue (and the MCU, but that was also recalled and it was the NVidia version that had the issue and not the inhouse built Tesla one iirc).

 

On a similar note, I don't think CR has been reputable for years now...like in their assessment on the self driving, they ranked Super Cruise as number 1, with Tesla a "distant second"...the only problem, they ranked Tesla highest in capabilities, but then heavily ranked their self driving based on where you can enable it (where if it allows you to enable it anywhere they deducted points), they also weighted on whether it detects sleeping drivers.  So they literally claim ranking self driving where functionality of it takes pretty much the last precedents of it.  There has also been non-Tesla things that have been a controversy with CR.

 

10 hours ago, tim0901 said:

In Germany, over 10% of Model S's fail their 3-year TUV safety inspections (a mandatory test all road vehicles there are required to pass after being on the road for 3,5,7 etc. years - an equivalent to an MOT in the UK). At a 10.7% failure rate, the Model S has the third highest failure rate of all cars and the worst for EVs.

I can't find the article on it, but I do remember reading about it (so take with a bit of a grain of salt...if I find the article I will post it).  Failures can be as simple as a fog light not being quite adjusted right...which can also be a slightly subjective thing.  The article I'm thinking of had their vehicle "fail" on multiple counts and then they took it to a different inspector who passed the entire thing.

 

10 hours ago, tim0901 said:

J.D.Power's dependability survey also ranked them at 30 of 33 manufacturers tested in 2021, with owners of 3-year-old vehicles reporting 176 problems per 100 vehicles over the last 12 months (compared to 81 for Lexus, who came in 1st). J.D.Power's Initial Quality survey also shows that Tesla's build quality is amongst the worst in the business, placing them 31st in 2021 with an average of 231 problems reported per 100 vehicles at the time of delivery.

Not denying that Tesla delivers the vehicle in the worst kind of conditions...but ultimately the "reliability" is a lot of the fit and finish which has been steadily increasing as their production has ramped.  The Texas ones apparently are now apparently quite a bit better now they have the full front and rear castings.  Based from my understanding, having a delivery and getting a panel "fixed" would count as a problem.  There was a luxury taxi company that had Tesla's in their fleet, and over the course of a million miles the cost of ownership and repairs to the vehicle was less than the other luxury vehicles in their fleet.  I really don't care too much about initial quality, as that can get fixed (and usually panel gap issues)...what I care about is whether things such as the MCU will break (which I think is the biggest issue in my mind)

 

The general point I'd like to make, for the fit and finish stuff, Tesla does have areas to improve compared to legacy automotive...but ultimately where it counts (batteries, motors, powertrain) Tesla has been leading.

 

Bolts/Konas - entire fleet ever built had to have a battery replacement

Mach-e's - Window issues (after openingly mocking Tesla in the announcement video)

 

To be clear, I do think that there is plenty to go on about Tesla's and quality, but I honestly see large issues with the current incumbents as well. 

[An0maly_76]

53 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The general point I'd like to make, for the fit and finish stuff, Tesla does have areas to improve compared to legacy automotive...but ultimately where it counts (batteries, motors, powertrain) Tesla has been leading.

 

Bolts/Konas - entire fleet ever built had to have a battery replacement

Mach-e's - Window issues (after openingly mocking Tesla in the announcement video)

 

To be clear, I do think that there is plenty to go on about Tesla's and quality, but I honestly see large issues with the current incumbents as well. 

 

I find the referral to conventional ICE automakers as 'legacy' automotive, as if ICE were dead. That is hardly the case, though, the ultimate problem with EVs always has been, still is, and probably always will be battery technology, as it affects range and ultimate usability. I could even deal with a battery that only got me 5 hours of drive time if it recharged fully in one hour. Because on any cross-country trip I've ever done, I generally stopped for an hour to eat and stretch my legs every 4-6 hours. But are charging stations widely available in most places? No. I know this because a friend and former fellow trucker took a job as a local tow operator, who has sent pictures of the 1-2 Teslas they have towed to charging stations every day. So it's plan B - carry a gasoline generator with you, which will take much longer. Gemini claims to have designed and built a better battery that has delivered superior range in testing, but no word as to when it will be marketed to my knowledge.

The problems with the electric semis they keep promising are that first, the only one I'm aware of actually being on the market or fleet-tested right now is the Nikola One, and it is not purely electric, using a CNG / LPG or diesel turbine to charge its batteries. This requires three hours of non-stop noise that is a problem for team operations (two drivers swap places sleeping and driving for 10 hours), and the 75 gallons of fuel burned per cycle would run a diesel for the same 400-500 miles per charge cycle. And 400-500 miles max per shift is going to seriously hurt the supply chain, and drivers' income. Paid by the mile, I averaged about 600 miles a day.

I also question these vehicles' ability to traverse mountains with heavy loads without catching fire, which the promised Tesla semi appears to be no stranger to. And the vast majority of other EVs, as quoted here, are prone to fires and battery problems as well.

 

The issues with the incumbent ICE automakers are mostly due to short-sightedness, putting profit before product quality, and a complete lack of regard for consumer experience. But another factor that most might not consider. All this engineering and R&D to facilitate systems to counter foolish mistakes by people who simply can't be bothered to pay attention? That costs money that when added to production costs are likely a lot of the reason cars cost so much more than they used to. And somewhere along the line, to remain competitive and not price themselves out of business, they have to start cutting corners on what matters -- engines, transmissions, electrical systems, etc.

 

Ford is especially bad about under-engineered electrical systems, dating back to way before any attempt to bring EVs to the forefront, something I know better than most -- My 1988 EXP made me replace the headlight switch, column multi-function switch, all block connectors and at least 8-10 inches of wiring harness SEVEN TIMES EACH in about two years before discovering a fault in the rheostat for the dash lighting was overheating them and burning them up. The fix was simple - connect the dash lighting wire to the parking lights. You couldn't dim them, but I never had to touch any of it again. But I digress.

 

I think all of this is a much larger part of the decline of vehicle quality from many manufacturers in recent years than most realize or would admit. The money that would have been spent on improving engine design and overall vehicle quality has gone into nanny systems to keep clueless people from hurting themselves or endangering children or pets.

Edited September 26, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[wanderingfool2]

27 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I find the referral to conventional ICE automakers as 'legacy' automotive, as if ICE were dead.

Legacy auto refers to the manufacturers because they have been around for ever.  GM and Ford are literally 100 years old (thus the legacy part).

 

It's the comparison of Tesla to legacy auto because there is quite a bit of different mindsets...actually a point I'd like to bring up relevant to this topic.  One can claim that Tesla is pushing too much for new tech...but ultimately that new tech is also what is making the vehicle safer...like the newer updates where it uses the camera to detect an immanent collision, so it pretensions your seatbelt prior to the crash causing a lot less force.

 

To just mention a few of your points, Tesla long range is currently like 500+km...with the 4680's the LR should be able to hit 600km, which means 6+ hours of drive time.  Charge time at a fast charger is 300km in 30 min.

 

Please don't bring up Nikola One, saying it exists and trying to talk about it as if you have knowledge of it.  Literally the "creator" of it is standing trial for fraud and their vehicle showing it being demoed was literally it driving down a hill because it couldn't power itself.  Tesla on the other hand has been shipping their Semi's this year (there's been ones spotted getting ready for delivery)  iirc it's pepsi who is the first taker of it.

 

40 minutes ago, An0maly_76 said:

I also question these vehicles' ability to traverse mountains with heavy loads without catching fire, which the promised Tesla semi appears to be no stranger to. And the vast majority of other EVs, as quoted here, are prone to fires and battery problems as well.

Are there EV fires? yes, but ICE vehicles are a lot more prone to fire.  EV's on towing can potentially heat up a lot, but they just throttle the speed then...no different than stressing an engine.   A note that people also overlook, weight doesn't play as big of a role in EV's as it does with ICE...due to regenerative braking.  The overall weight to accelerate gets offset a bit by the 80 - 90% regen while slowing down.

 

But anyways, I still stand by my point though.  Trying to compare Tesla to legacy auto and trying to claim that Tesla's are effectively implying they are unsafe because they don't have the experience/decades of experience like in the creation of the topic isn't right.

[RedRound2]

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

That is hardly the case, though, the ultimate problem with EVs always has been, still is, and probably always will be battery technology, as it affects range and ultimate usability. I could even deal with a battery that only got me 5 hours of drive time if it recharged fully in one hour.

Do you not know that these are problems that are going to be addressed in very few years. We have only started heavily investing in battery tech for about a decade while ICE engines have been heavily invested for about a century. And tbh already a decade of investments have made EVs much more competitive and even outperform ICE cars in pretty much all metrics with the only thing pending being the cost, charge time and the weight - all of which we are swiftly advancing into given the YoY improvements in all three categories.

 

Honestly, I think everyone in the market for newer car with a mid-budget or higher should seriously consider an EV as ICE cars are pretty much IMO well on their way to death. Might take a couple of years, but the slow upgrade nature of cars is why its more of a drawn-out process

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

I also question these vehicles' ability to traverse mountains with heavy loads without catching fire, which the promised Tesla semi appears to be no stranger to. And the vast majority of other EVs, as quoted here, are prone to fires and battery problems as well.

You're talking as if EVs catch fire all the time. I have not heard such news and mostly its all really isolated cases. Even combustion engine, FYI contains a tank of flammable liquid that can pretty much also catch fire. In terms of batteries again, there are also significant investments going into safer batteries that's pretty much impossible to make it catch fire